Get rid of low effort damage reduction abilities

[Chicken-Biryani]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

People keep saying this to me over and over again

I made this post after seeing and gathering so many opinions and posts about how stale the game has become....and how overpowered we are 

I also thought about what kinds of changes we can do to spice  the game a little bit while marinating the OPness that we have

 

I realized that when i played warframes that have no direct simple and easy access 90% dr abilities the game was progressively harder, as it should

But of course people don't like nerfs i thought about that

So i thought maybe...when you have a warframe that can take so many hits and wipe hordes in 0.5 seconds it's really unfair for others, and unfair for the experience 

 

I thought about the exchange....sacrificing your cover and your defenses for dealing damage and vice versa 

And that would only work on DR warframes

And i also know that this cannot apply to Warframes that have limited defenses like volt's shield or hildryn's shields...and won't work with all support and tank warframes

It would only work for extremely high dps warframes like the likes of mesa

So you telling me that i want the game to play like the way i want when i quite literally thought about every kind of player outhere...the ones that don't like nerf and that ones that are burn out

I guess if you and others here actually took time to re read the post and understand my point of view...i wouldn't have had so many waving their pitch forks at me 

I want to play the game because I want to feel the power of space ninjas. What's wrong in that? It's a video game after all. 

You don't want other play styles to influence your experience.. good.. go solo. Because a public mission means a plethora of potential frames, play styles etc. which is inherent in a public squad. So why squeal when someone brings something you don't like and have no control over. Solo missions are there for 100% control and so is the ability to run pre-made squads. You can't force the whole public to conform to your opinions. That's plain wrong. 

And people are waving pitchforks because stuff like this got ember nerfed, when she didn't need to be nerfed. 

P.S. your title is the reason I called you trying to enforce dictatorship. 

Edited August 23, 2019 by --C--Nehra

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

5 minutes ago, --C--Nehra said:

I want to play the game because I want to feel the power of space ninjas. What's wrong in that? It's a video game after all. 

You don't want other play styles to influence your experience.. good.. go solo. Because a public mission means a plethora of potential frames, play styles etc. which is inherent in a public squad. So why squeal when someone brings something you don't like and have no control over. Solo missions are there for 100% control and so is the ability to run pre-made squads. You can't force the whole public to conform to your opinions. That's plain wrong. 

And people are waving pitchforks because stuff like this got ember nerfed, when she didn't need to be nerfed. 

This is not my problem

The problem is not me being in public groups and annoyed that someone took the fun from others

My problem that the game itself takes the fun from me when all it provides is no challenge at all from factions and enemies 

And give all the power we can dream of in our warframes 

[Chicken-Biryani]

Just now, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

My problem that the game itself takes the fun from me when all it provides is no challenge at all from factions and enemies 

Then it's not a problem of frames having damage reduction, but enemy scaling. There should be some node where you get lvl 200+ enemies from the get go and usual rewards. 

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, --C--Nehra said:

There should be some node where you get lvl 200+ enemies from the get go and usual rewards. 

Just chiming in to say that all enemies get with level is more spongy and kill you faster, they do not get smarter nor do they actually improve whatsoever.

The problem of enemies is the ONLY thing they can do is become big sponges with one-hit-kill bullets, no amount of level scaling will make any enemy fun to fight, all it does is give the illusion of enemy power, and that illusion is easily broken by any number of cheese tactics that are well known at this point.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

7 minutes ago, --C--Nehra said:

Then it's not a problem of frames having damage reduction, but enemy scaling. There should be some node where you get lvl 200+ enemies from the get go and usual rewards. 

Alright, that is also a way, i can roll with that...

It's the same thing

Because my idea of balancing the offense and defense of warframes relied on dealing with amplified low level enemies like the orb vallis 

They're low level...but they have improved stats and improved Ai 

Which would encourage high players to experiment and won't let new players intimidated to fight against level 200 enemies

 

But it's my fault for not clarifying that in the original post

I got too focused on our side and forgot to show how the enemy side would look like

@Peter take a look at this too

@Birdframe_Prime also you

 

Edited August 23, 2019 by (PS4)Hopper_Orouk

[Chicken-Biryani]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

But it's my fault for not clarifying that in the original post

I got too focused on our side and forgot to show how the enemy side would look like

Fair enough. 

[Chicken-Biryani]

3 minutes ago, Aldain said:

Just chiming in to say that all enemies get with level is more spongy and kill you faster, they do not get smarter nor do they actually improve whatsoever.

Well it's the limitation of this game, they can add different phases to enemies, but since they spawn in hordes, it's gonna be pointless as it will suddenly get too hot to handle. Or if it's  super duper one to one boss fights, then it's no longer like the warframe we love to play anymore. 

[Aldain]

1 minute ago, --C--Nehra said:

Well it's the limitation of this game, they can add different phases to enemies, but since they spawn in hordes, it's gonna be pointless as it will suddenly get too hot to handle. Or if it's  super duper one to one boss fights, then it's no longer like the warframe we love to play anymore. 

I think they could do with a few more "Elite" enemies in the middle of some waves, think like Ambulas or Nox type units that have a bit more power and have a more noticeable threat than the cannon fodder.

They don't need to have entire waves of them, but a few more enemies that need some thinking to take down, maybe also with ability resistance (think like taking 50% or so less damage from them so things like Mesa can't ignore them and maybe CC resistance or immunity buildup) to encourage a bit more interactivity from players rather than just stunlocking or oneshotting them like other things.

I think the big thing we need from enemies is a few more types that can withstand us without having to rely on "Immune to Abilities/Status/CC/Damage" clauses. Add in some variety to the waves of enemies and whatnot.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

9 hours ago, (XB1)Zweimander said:

So nerf the damage reduction abilities just for nerfs sake and you thinking they do to much for to little then? I dont think I could ever agree with that and it would not be taken well by the community so it aint gonna happen either way. I think your just trying to make a large group of frames that are just fine as is much worse overall just because YOU dont like them. I have never seen another player complain or ask such a thing so your just the fringe minority who wants nerfs on top of nerfs and wish to ruin everything people love! Please just quit the game if you have a problem with how it is instead of trying to change it to suit YOUR wants and needs...

Yeah you have no idea what i'm talking about

No need to continue any further leave this thread

[Zectico]

Reducing passive survivability is a terrible idea for one reason alone: active survivability is insanely unreliable.

I've recently been on a spree of trying to make squishy frames viable for high level Arbitration. One way to do this is with active buff gimmicks.

Many of these buffs include Health Conversion, Arcane Guardian, Adaptation, Mecha Pulse, Aero's sleep ability, etc. The only thing I can say is that playing like this makes the game actual hell.

Needing to perform specific actions to survive means that 1) it takes a long time to build up survivability and 2) you staying alive will rely heavily on teammates and the game's AI, neither of which are ever very reliable.

If allies make getting the buff difficult, you die. If enemies don't spawn the right way, you die. Even if a buff goes on cooldown at the wrong time, you die.

Then, when do you inevitably do die, getting the buffs back up will be an impossible task as you now no longer have the safety of the spawn room to get ready. The map is now full of enemies, and since you don't have the survivability to kill anything, you will die before you get any buffs back up.

Harrow is an example

His buffs are amazing, but he is massively outclassed for one reason alone: his buffs require specific events 

Teammates simply killing enemies (the entire point of the game) can make it difficult to get headshots, or even have them stay alive for long enough to shoot you.

Notice that all the frames without "cast and forget" survivability are the one that are considered bad. Even Atlas, with his armor gimmick, gets annihilated while Trinity can tank lvl 130s despite having no armor.

Even Octavia's 3 is terrible except when spammed full of notes, since trying to shoot, jump, etc. at the right time is just plain unreliable.

 

 

I really hope I'm not so late in the thread that people no longer read the replies.

Edited August 23, 2019 by Zectico

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

3 minutes ago, Zectico said:

Reducing passive survivability is a terrible idea for one reason alone: active survivability is insanely unreliable.

I've recently been on a spree of trying to make squishy frames viable for high level Arbitration. One way to do this is with active buff gimmicks.

Many of these buffs include Health Conversion, Arcane Guardian, Adaptation, Mecha Pulse, Aero's sleep ability, etc. The only thing I can say is that playing like this makes the game actual hell.

Needing to perform specific actions to survive means that 1) it takes a long time to build up survivability and 2) you staying alive will rely heavily on teammates and the game's AI, neither of which are ever very reliable.

If allies make getting the buff difficult, you die. If enemies don't spawn the right way, you die. Even if a buff goes on cooldown at the wrong time, you die.

Then, when do you inevitably do die, getting the buffs back up will be an impossible task as you now no longer have the safety of the spawn room to get ready. The map is now full of enemies, and since you don't have the survivability to kill anything, you will die before you get any buffs back up.

Harrow is another example

His buffs are amazing, but he is massively outclassed for one reason alone: his buffs require specific events 

Teammates simply killing enemies (the entire point of the game) can make it difficult to get headshots, or even have them stay alive for long enough to shoot you.

Notice that all the frames without "cast and forget" survivability are the one that are considered bad. Even Atlas, with his armor gimmick, gets annihilated while Trinity can tank lvl 130s despite having no armor.

Even Octavia's 3 is terrible except when spammed full of notes, since trying to shoot, jump, etc. at the right time is just plain unreliable.

 

 

I really hope I'm not so late in the thread that people no longer read the replies.

I do, i read them

And i totally agree with you...building and making so much work and set ups just so i can survive a few ticks...is as unfair as getting easy millions of ehp

 

But i guess i should also clarify(for god knows how many times) that i wanted an exchange

Let's make an existing example

Barukk's elude only working when you don't shoot or attack

Providing an exchange between offense and defense 

But hoenstly i'm so tired of explaining my point of view and getting immense hate comments and rude people that i'm starting to regret ever making that post

[Zectico]

The thing is even with abilities like Mesa's Shatter Shield, she is still never used in any situation where a decent tank is required simply because a 90% damage reduction is often not enough. Many frames need to stack several buffs to be strong, so making some of the abilities situational doesn't help much.

There is also the problem of Warframe being pretty much a power fantasy at it's core. Warframes are meant to feel overpowered against the thousands of enemy mobs casually slain every mission. A lot of people don't want to deal with the nuances of strategic combat when they come home from a long day and want something to relax.

 

14 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

But i guess i should also clarify(for god knows how many times) that i wanted an exchange

But hoenstly i'm so tired of explaining my point of view and getting immense hate comments and rude people that i'm starting to regret ever making that post

You don't need to clarify to everyone who posts! There's just too many people to do that : P

The internet just comes with hate and rude people. A lot of them might also just be defending their playstyle.

Just know that all the rude comments are the ones that will be ignored when the developers are looking for ideas and feedback.