Oh wow, Kuva Liches are horrible

[Augustoa17]

No, like, really

It's like a 5 hour grind, for something that you don't even want, so you can roll another lich, so you can get something else you don't even want again, hoping to get something good eventually.

The cap is 60%, I got 2 25% weapons, and then a 26% one, and finally, the weapon I get with a higher percentage is an Archwing weapon, and it's not even that great since it's 48%, which means that its basically a mid-tier weapon in this god-forsaken system, so, I had to waste 5 hours to get an Archwing weapon, that I didn't want, and that wasn't even good, and is probably worse than the one I already had built for doing the orb fight (Oh man, remember the orb fight? wasn't that another miserable experience), just so I could cycle to something else, which is another weapon with 25% bonus, exciting, ain't it?

I know this game rewards luck above all else mostly, since the game is barely skill based, but this is too much, it's miserable.

I use the word Miserable a lot because that's kinda what I'm feeling whenever I’m grinding this.

We are already getting the Railjack intro, so I don't even know why the bonus damage on the liches happens to be a thing, the mechanic is meant to make you play for a lot of time, enough so that you guys can buy time to release the next update, I get that, fantastic, however we are already getting the Railjack intro, so why are you releasing content that clashes with other content and that just wastes peoples time?

I'm getting Railed and Railjack isn’t even out yet.

So, the Lich system sucks, but what sucks about it? Well, let's make a list

 

1 - I got a lich, he sucks, what now?

Spend like 5 hours farming murmurs, getting hit by WWE moves and grinding missions where the bastard doesn't even show up even though his hissy fit bar is full.

 

2 - I got a lich with a good weapon, but it sucks rng-wise, what now?

Go grind it, no getting rid of him either, you’ll now deposit 5 hours of your life, that you won’t get back on getting a weapon you won’t use, did ya enjoy the Warframe™ experience?

 

3 – If this was supposed to be anything close to the nemesis system in Shadow of Mordor / War, I can’t even begin to call DE incompetent

I actually had a classmate back in high school who was basically allowed by the teacher to cheat, since most of the class had gotten bad grades and she had to approve a decent percentage of people, and even cheating off of people who passed the test he managed to fail, Does he work at DE? Sure looks like it, because how you can take such a fun system that basically carried a game that had barely anything else to offer and make it this bad is unfathomable, It just doesn’t make sense, I know it’s not supposed to be the same thing, but how did you manage to take such a good system and turn it into a miserable experience for the whole family just shows that you guys might wanna make sure you at least took a deeper look into the system and saw what actually made it good.

Don't think that this is me saying "Boo hoo they didn't give me the system that I liked from the other game", it's me saying that if you are going to copy or get inspired by something you should make it at least as good, it can be different, just can't be worse, I know this was a jolly good try, and it might get changed in the future (doubt it tho), but at its current state it's just sad.

 

4 – Guessing and wasting your time in general

The lich decides whenever he wants to come out, after you have pissed him off enough, however, he doesn’t, since I’ve had my lich be pissed off at me and it took 6 missions for him to decide showing his pretty face, showing that no, he wasn’t that pissed off.

Now, let’s go back to Shadow of Mordor / War, you know how the Orcs ranked up, right? You’d have to fail in combat against them, the Orcs were a big deal too, they’d stop your gameplay to a halt and basically say “Hey, I’m a problem, deal with me”, which was great, they were imposing, charismatic, fun to fight, had a bunch of gimmicks and were all around amazingly implemented.

What you guys managed to take from that was: The lich eventually says “Haha, I’ll hit you in the peepee” or “Oh, I’m scared of Kubrows”

Failing in combat against the Orcs was a personal deal, you’d remember them, and they’d remember you, meanwhile I can’t remember my lich’s name whenever he’s active, and he’s just a single lich, if you asked me the name of the current lich I have right now I wouldn’t know, I sunk like 50 hours into Shadow of Mordor and I remember quite a few Orcs that I had feuds with, combat against a Lich is a joke because you are expected to lose so you can guess their dumb system, “cleverly outplaying” them, by pressing a single button, I don’t care if my lich kills me, each one of my liches got at least to rank 3, most to rank 5, since I had to just throw myself at them to guess, In fact I’d just kill myself while grinding murmurs so he would leave, I honestly have nothing against my Liches, they are just guys holding weapons I want better versions of, if anything my Liches are pretty pathetic, so far I only saw one cool lich that beat me up real bad and destroyed me with Viral procs, all other Liches were pushovers.

It’s not that I’m expecting the system to be exactly like Mordor, although the army mechanic could save this whole thing, but you did open the can of worms of having something that looks almost exactly like it, you should at least strive to make it as good, this might sound mean but I never expect too much from DE on anything that doesn’t involve visuals, and even then I’m still kinda let down, Warframe is a very stylish game surrounded by walls of bad content that takes ages to complete and doesn’t make you feel good like a grind-based game should make you feel, did you ever notice that grinding doesn’t give you satisfaction on Warframe? That’s because Warframe’s charm is the core gameplay, not the grind mechanics, its fun to zip around and shoot things, that’s like the reason 90% of the people play this game, the cool gun makes the shoot noise and grineer go boom, anything else is just sadness, I wonder if people who work at DE could sit down and farm Nidus or Harrow, that’s a livestream I’d watch.

“Now, complaining is fun and all, but, how can we fix this?”

I’m glad you said that in your head, hoping for me to come up with solutions that will never be implemented in the game because who the hell cares about player feedback.

 

1 – Make the liches a bigger deal

I want my lich to slap me around, if he hates me so much I want to see it, stealing my loot is easy, I don’t even care since I eventually get it back, I want my lich to be a big deal, whenever he pops into a mission I wanna be like “Uh oh”, the lich is a guy that ganks you, don’t make him just another Shadow Stalker, make the guy imponent, strong, so far he has one move that takes half of your hp away where the animation never connects right, and he kinda uses skills awkwardly, in a more annoying than dangerous way, since the guy always manages to get one teleport skill that makes his fight take double the time because he keeps zapping around, otherwise he just kinda stands around and takes it like a chump.

 

2 – Make the Lich army an actual army

They have an army, I see multiple of them in the little picture in the launcher, why is there only one who hates me at a time? Give us an army of Kuva liches, so we can maybe flip around and see which one has loot we want, give them other loot too, a decent amount of resources or something, no need to only stick to weapons, maybe have normal Kuva Liches give you resources and have elite ones that actually give you a weapon.

Maybe have them cycle on a weekly rotation or something, give people a reason to play your game rather than masochism.

 

3 – Get rid of the parazon mod guessing

That’s lazy, that’s all it is, its as if you had to do a quest in a game, and that quest happened to be super simple, you go and open a door, but the door takes 5 hours of messing with the lock to open. Does that sound fun? Yeah.

 

4 – Let us add weapons

Make elite Kuva Liches give you weapons with a low percentage, so we can add them, if I have a Kuva Chakkhurr with 5% and another one with 4%, I combine the two and now I have a Kuva Chakkhurr with 9%, I wouldn’t mind having to farm the same weapon multiple times if every time I got it I’d get a substantial upgrade for the weapon, rather than having to hit my luck on getting a good one or a bad one, make the grind accumulate into something, not make you grind for something worthless that has no use.

 

 

I don't hate DE, I think they made a pretty fun game, however the fun gets drained out by very poorly tested systems, bossfights with zero weight and systems that I just can't understand how someone allowed to be inside the game.

 

This might get deleted since god help anyone who talks bad about DE, but, if you want feedback, you got feedback.

Edited November 23, 2019 by Augustoa17

[Traumtulpe]

It's odd how people have so very different perceptions of the same thing. I don't mind the liches at all. Only a little effort, and you get a couple neat weapons - maybe even an Ephemera. Nothing groundbreaking, but a worthwhile pastime.

17 minutes ago, Augustoa17 said:

If this was supposed to be anything close to the nemesis system in Shadow of Mordor / War, I can’t even begin to call DE incompetent

Can't argue with that though. Those liches are no nemesis, they are inconsequential.

Oh no, he stole 10 credits and some other stuff I don't give a flying flamingo about. Just keep it, buddy.

[Augustoa17]

10 minutes ago, Traumtulpe said:

It's odd how people have so very different perceptions of the same thing. I don't mind the liches at all. Only a little effort, and you get a couple neat weapons - maybe even an Ephemera. Nothing groundbreaking, but a worthwhile pastime.

If there's something positive about the whole thing it's probably the weapons, I like the idea of giving variants of weapons people like, although I'm only interested in like 3 of them and I'd like them to be strong, getting the weapons, even though it's a chore would be acceptable if there was no rng involved, it's the fact that you'll have to repeat until you get something good that makes it soul crushing, getting basically the lowest weapon bonus like 3 times makes you feel like a sucker, wasting 15+ hours bothering with the lich system and having nothing to show for it is sad.

[Marvelous_A]

Quote

 combat against a Lich is a joke because you are expected to lose so you can guess their dumb system, “cleverly outplaying” them, by pressing a single button, I don’t care if my lich kills me, each one of my liches got at least to rank 3, most to rank 5, since I had to just throw myself at them to guess

For this single reason I still haven't created my first Lich, throwing myself to certain death to "get hint" so that I can "outwit" them at the end? Totally sounds like a dumb Tenno operative would do.

It's just simple grinding with extra steps. At least I'd be less disappointed if they aren't asking me to commit suicide in order to beat some dumb enemies.

[DoomFruit]

I basically agree with everything that the OP has said. There's a reason why I haven't even looked at getting a "lich" (no, DE, these are not liches, they don't share a single trait with them), and that's because it's a gigantic pile of grinding so that you can grind so that you can grind so that you can grind to get something which you are told from the very start is worse than what you already have.

The fact that requiem mods run out of batteries is just icing on the cake. Seriously, who thought that this was a good idea and why are they in any position of responsibility?

[xp3759]

I have to say the Kuva Lich part of the game sucks! Why doesn't DE put in an opt out choice with some of this stuff. Really DE forcing peeps to do parts of the game especially not being able to go back in game and say No I don't want to play this part is really narrow minded. Now your putting Railjack into the game in the near future and it too will be a play it or quit warframe choice. I am at the point of doing the latter. Some of the crap you guys do to the already fine parts of the game shows your ignorance.

[Ikusias]

Farming murmurs is unoriginal and grindy: whi murder 200-300 of the same stupid mob when we have missions made to hack vaults for confidential information???

Facing the lich with incorrcet parazon sequence netting your frame an instant defeat, after you've already torn to pieces said lich multiple times in that same very mission feels fragging stupid

Nothing of what was hiped in the Empirean trailer has been so far implemented in game, only 4 layers of RNG and grind

[Augustoa17]

19 hours ago, Ikusias said:

Farming murmurs is unoriginal and grindy: whi murder 200-300 of the same stupid mob when we have missions made to hack vaults for confidential information???

Oh wow, I never thought of that, the more thought people give to this system the worse it gets.

[ZENCHOU]

On 2019-11-23 at 9:45 AM, DoomFruit said:

(no, DE, these are not liches, they don't share a single trait with them)

DE makes YOU  the lich by having to die and come back over and over in order to defeat the enemy which only needs to be defeated once.