Reflecting on the Past Two Months

[Mikhael222]

From what I've read on the forums, it seems Warframe has been struggling with its player base a little more since The Old Blood update.  Lots of people posting here are upset about some of the changes.  There are multiple little things I want to talk about here, so please excuse the ambiguity of the title.

1. DE's Priorities Are Strange (probably old news to most here).  All of us have our own opinions on whether or not each individual change in the update was good or bad.  We all like some changes and dislike other changes.  But I think overall, there are some things that DE definitely needs to avoid for everyone.  When refined and detailed, the Railjack game mode should prove to be a game changer.  Most of us in 2018 were thrilled that something like this was going to become reality...............However, instead of going full steam ahead to Railjack after Fortuna's release, DE seemingly got distracted and decided to devote some of their resources toward experimenting with the Kuva Lich system.  Now I'm not saying the Kuva Lich system is a terrible idea; It's just a misplaced idea (in my opinion), and I feel like DE should have finished the Railjack content that they teased first and added Liches later on.

To whom this may concern at DE: Imagine if you teased a dog with a delicious piece of meat for a long period of time, and then threw it a regular dog biscuit.  Imagine how annoyed and saddened the dog would be.  I feel like that's what happened after the Old Blood update.  So here is a wise suggestion: Never tease a hungry creature unless you intend to deliver what you teased.  Thankfully, Rising Tide was released very shortly after the Old Blood, so it wasn't as detrimental as it could have been.

2. A lot of Warframe content lately has been too focused on blood/gore/horror.  There is nothing wrong with those things where appropriate, but I feel like it's become imbalanced.  Garuda, Vampire Kitties, Old Blood update, Kuva liches, bloody decals, bloody ephemeras, etc. etc.  DE, that is not what you are.  I remember joining a Warframe that revered the thematic content of the traditional martial artists with lots of beautiful, traditional Asian visuals and fine warriors like Teshin Dax.  I recommend going back to that thematic structure and making it your focus.  You have masterful artists working at DE.  Build beautiful and admirable things.  I can't help but wonder if the increased blood/gore/horror thematic content is subconsciously influencing players to be a bit more on edge lately.  Visuals tend to have a subconscious effect.

3. Speaking of edgy players, I just want to ask some of those in the forum community to calm down lol  If even the slightest thing breaks or doesn't go your way, it's the end of the world for some of you.  Always remember that Warframe is a living game. We get the benefit of new updates and content, but we also get the bugs and growing pains.  The melee changes had flaws, but melee still works.  The Kuva Lich system isn't in the best state right now, but it's nothing to cry to mommy about.  Just relax, and breathe.  Maybe go outside for some fresh air and realize there is a reality outside of games to deal with.  Not to sound cliché, but there is some poor child in a third world country right now who can't play games at all.  Try to be thankful that you get a game like this for free to begin with.

4. Overall, I'm very excited for the potential that Warframe has right now.  I just finished building my Railjack yesterday, and I can't wait to see what opportunities space exploration can provide.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Mikhael222

[Jiminez_Burial]

I was going to post a proper reply to this but two things you said made that unlikely.

1) Visual subconscious effects, have you got any evidence to back that up or are you just talking out your ass because it sounds nice?

2) You throw out the 'somebody wishes they were you' argument rather than trying to properly reason with people.  That 'reality outside' and the dumb decisions made by dumb people around us is what many people are wanting to forget about, so having more dumb decisions made regarding their vector for escape doesn't help.

[Mikhael222]

1 minute ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

Visual subconscious effects, have you got any evidence to back that up or are you just talking out your ass because it sounds nice?

It's not a new concept that your instincts react to visual themes.  For some people, the sight of blood makes them sick or woozy.  Visuals invoke memories of past experiences connected to said visuals.  Visuals of gore, blood, and horror will invoke negative memories and can make one feel on edge.  Visuals of beauty and admirable things do not invoke negative memories, and can therefore be more calming.  The trick is to balance the two so that the negative visuals of blood, gore, and horror are properly dominated by the positive visuals.

5 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

You throw out the 'somebody wishes they were you' argument rather than trying to properly reason with people.

I don't understand your meaning behind this.  When did I say that someone wishes they were me?

[xXRampantXx]

38 minutes ago, Mikhael222 said:

DE seemingly got distracted and decided to devote some of their resources toward experimenting with the Kuva Lich system.

I'm pretty sure the Liches were meant to be a part of Railjack that they pulled off of it to release early, but I could be wrong.

2: The gore is honestly a lot less than when I joined.  Anyone else remember blasting chucks out of enemies leaving their ribcage visible, or seeing them rolling around clutching at a stump that was a leg moments before?  I'm pretty sure they even said in one devstream that they were "bringing back" the gore. The thematic structure you're talking about is a fairly recent thing, and I don't really see how gore detracts from it anyway.

No response from me about 3 and 4, I wholeheartedly agree with them.

Edited December 2, 2019 by xXRampantXx

[Mikhael222]

1 minute ago, xXRampantXx said:

I'm pretty sure the Liches were meant to be a part of Railjack that they pulled off of it to release early.

Not in the Railjack demo of Tennolive 2018.  But the liches were shown later in the Railjack demo of Tennolive 2019.

2 minutes ago, xXRampantXx said:

The gore is honestly a lot less than when I joined.  Anyone else remember blasting chucks out of enemies leaving their ribcage visible, or seeing them rolling around clutching at a stump that was a leg moments before?  I'm pretty sure they even said in one devstream that they were "bringing back" the gore.

Hmm....I joined in early 2017.  Maybe that was during a time of low-gore.

[Mikhael222]

30 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

That 'reality outside' and the dumb decisions made by dumb people around us is what many people are wanting to forget about, so having more dumb decisions made regarding their vector for escape doesn't help.

It is a dumb decision to complain about everything.  It is a dumb decision to spend your days angry at things that are mere trifles.  It is a dumb decision to be ungrateful to a group of people (DE) who have given so much of their time to build this game and this community......and keep it free.

If you are guilty of any of these dumb decisions, and if you refuse to stop practicing any of these dumb decisions, then sadly, you will never truly find an escape from dumb people.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Mikhael222

[Jiminez_Burial]

28 minutes ago, Mikhael222 said:

It's not a new concept that your instincts react to visual themes.

Evidence?  Sources?  Studies?  ANYTHING!?!?!  Concepts are not evidence.  And before you say something along the lines of "go look it up for yourself" remember than when someone makes a claim in the affirmative it is they who hold the burden of proof.

28 minutes ago, Mikhael222 said:

Visuals of beauty and admirable things do not invoke negative memories, and can therefore be more calming. 

Uhm, what most people consider 'beauty' does actually invoke negative memories in some (and I know because they do for me).

28 minutes ago, Mikhael222 said:

The trick is to balance the two so that the negative visuals of blood, gore, and horror are properly dominated by the positive visuals.

"balance", "dominated", great contradiction there.

28 minutes ago, Mikhael222 said:

I don't understand your meaning behind this.  When did I say that someone wishes they were me?

It's when people say that others can't complain because someone has it worse than them, the idea that basically no matter how bad your situation is that there is someone in the world who 'wishes they were you'.  You mentioned a "poor child in a third world country" like that's supposed to take away from any criticisms people have of the game, like they're linked in some way.  How does someone not complaining on a forum benefit this "poor child"?

*EDIT* It's a dumb decision to be happy with stuff that you feel isn't right.  It is dumb to try and justify silence with logical fallacies.  It is dumb to assume that just because someone is unhappy about a change that they automatically don't appreciate the work as a whole.  As long as I exist in this world I will always be surrounded by idiots because people are illogical.  They take arguments to an unrelated extreme and don't seem to desire context/nuance.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Jiminez_Burial

[(NSW)1kSakura]

Hmmmnn.... Can't relate.

 

*continues to wait for update*

[Mikhael222]

10 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

"balance", "dominated", great contradiction there.

It would seem so at first.  People are inclined toward focusing on the negative than on the positive , so yes....positive visuals dominating the negative would actually help balance the resulting effect.

10 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

It's when people say that others can't complain because someone has it worse than them, the idea that basically no matter how bad your situation is that there is someone in the world who 'wishes they were you'.  You mentioned a "poor child in a third world country" like that's supposed to take away from any criticisms people have of the game, like they're linked in some way.  How does someone not complaining on a forum benefit this "poor child"?

This isn't about what benefits the poor child.  This is about what benefits you and anyone else who posts.  Ingratitude for the things you have earned or have been given is a terrible way to live your life.  Constantly complaining about things that are mere trifles will only increase your misery.  Gratitude and patience will improve the quality of your existence.

Edited December 2, 2019 by Mikhael222

[Mikhael222]

22 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

Evidence?  Sources?  Studies?  ANYTHING!?!?!  Concepts are not evidence.  And before you say something along the lines of "go look it up for yourself" remember than when someone makes a claim in the affirmative it is they who hold the burden of proof.

Honestly, I've read multiple things about this, but the various pieces of information I found have been separated across time.  I honestly couldn't give you a specific source by memory.

22 minutes ago, Jiminez_Burial said:

Uhm, what most people consider 'beauty' does actually invoke negative memories in some (and I know because they do for me).

I'm truly sorry to hear this; I can't imagine what that must be like...….but your statement implies that you already admit to believing that visuals invoke memories and feelings.  So why are you demanding sources when you can instinctively sense what visuals can do to you?

Edited December 2, 2019 by Mikhael222

[Jiminez_Burial]

3 minutes ago, Mikhael222 said:

Honestly, I've read multiple things about this, but the various pieces of information I found have been separated across time.  I honestly couldn't give you a specific source by memory.

So you're defaulting on your point?

4 minutes ago, Mikhael222 said:

I'm truly sorry to hear this...….but your statement implies that you already admit to believing that visuals invoke memories and feelings.  So why are you demanding sources when you can instinctively sense what visuals can do to you?

I was more contesting your idea that 'beauty' is a constant and trying to make the point that what you deem to be negative may not be so for others.  A 'beautiful' warm sunny day when people generally venture outside is to me an abomination.  The light is blinding, the warmth exhausting, and when everyone is outside I'm reminded that people make noise with no care as to who else is around them.  Being reminded that a large portion of people can only conceive things to be annoying when they themselves are annoyed by them is the "negative memory" I was referring to.  Also peoples instincts are often wrong, that is why "I felt that it was beneficial" does not count as proper conclusive evidence.

23 minutes ago, Mikhael222 said:

It would seem so at first.  People are inclined toward focusing on the negative than on the positive , so yes....positive visuals dominating the negative would actually help balance the resulting effect.

And again you are falsely believing that what is positive and negative is a universal constant.  It is not.

25 minutes ago, Mikhael222 said:

This isn't about what benefits the poor child.  This is about what benefits you and anyone else who posts.  Ingratitude for the things you have earned or have been given is a terrible way to live your life.  Constantly complaining about things that are mere trifles will only increase your misery.  Gratitude and patience will improve the quality of your existence.

If it isn't about the poor child then why bring them up in the argument?

If someone gave you a cake then gave you a steaming pile of S#&$, are you not allowed to complain about the pile of S#&$?  Just because you were given something nice doesn't mean that you have to accept the bad.  Someone can say that they love Warframe but hate the current state of the Lich system.  "What benefits you and anyone else who posts."  Well the people posting the complaints they have are probably thinking that if things were changed, then it would benefit them and all who agree with them.  In their eyes it would be a game-wide benefit.  Blindly giving "gratitude" and simply hoping that things will get better (if that's what you mean by "patience") is a good way of getting shafted and having nothing improve.

[Chicken-Biryani]

I can't understand both sides of the coin when it comes to criticizing DE... One side is made up of people who assume everyone who doesn't fly at DE's throat is a white knight, and second side who claims everyone who presents their views on what's wrong in the game, or whatever they are unhappy with is just plain old "dumb-hater". And since, I don't understand them, I will continue being in the middle ground, enjoying what I like to play and walking away from whatever is not fun for me (example: Eidolons and Liches).