Melee Is The Most Overlooked And Underpowered Thing In The Game. Inexcusable.

[Kibbols123]

I agree the DPS for normal attacks is too small, however I do not feel we need a mechanics overhaul, just some rebalancing.

Charge attacks are actually, for the most part, pretty balanced. In the current state of the game you ALWAYS spam charges if you want to melee.

But even charge damage should be upped some to make it truly worth it to use as a main form of combat.

 

Some melee weapons take a lot of time to charge, time the enemy uses to kick your &#!.

[Diboson]

It'd be pretty cool if my Grams normal attacks were above par to a plastic cricket bat.

Edited October 1, 2013 by Diboson

[VoltekkaNL]

Increasing movement speed makes sense because movement speed has more to do with just weight, it also has to do with balance and where things are on your body. For example, its probably easier to sprint in steel toe boots that fit you perfectly than it would be to wear high heel shoes that weigh nothing.

 

And for gameplay's sake, you need to be able to get around faster as an advantage so you can get from target to target with ease.

 

Putting not having the first hand experience in running with high heels aside, I get your point that running with a gorgon in hand is somewhat tougher then when its strapped to the back thus increasing the speed at witch one could run.

[SheldinLP]

you're rank 3, your opinion is practically invalid, you lack experience in the game, too much experience. you've probably never seen a lvl 100 enemy before.

 

on very low lvl the difference isn't that big, but the higher you get the better mods you have and the more you'll see how crap melee are in comparison to guns.

 

back 2 topic I agree to the reg.melee buff, I even say charge aren't that balanced at all, orthos/galatine come close to the good risk/reward concept, these weapon perform well (and maybe gram) but the rest is still pretty weak but not as weak as regular melee. got the dual ichor, people also cry around that these weapons are "op" compared to normal melee sure, but even if I play as a monkey and threw some brown stuff that would still do more dps than regular melee

My mastery may be Rank 3, sure, but my Warframe is 30, and my weapons I use the most are around 25+ so I have been in a couple of those "higher level" fights. I just don't think that melee is underpowered at all - depending on the mods as I said earlier. And if you mod the Galatine, for example, in a certain way you can almost 1-shot everything on the field around level 60 - 70 when it's rank is 30.

 

That may be unbalanced sure since it's just one weapon out of a bunch, but it all comes down to the mods in the end really.

[Mainabi]

My mastery may be Rank 3, sure, but my Warframe is 30, and my weapons I use the most are around 25+ so I have been in a couple of those "higher level" fights. I just don't think that melee is underpowered at all - depending on the mods as I said earlier. And if you mod the Galatine, for example, in a certain way you can almost 1-shot everything on the field around level 60 - 70 when it's rank is 30.

 

That may be unbalanced sure since it's just one weapon out of a bunch, but it all comes down to the mods in the end really.

galatine is 1 single weapon out of hundreds, the first weapon that can rly compete with guns thanks to high charge base and high crits

 

also that's a charge weapon not regular melee weapon, and yes you're rank 3 you don't have experience with the higher tier weapon you didn't even had the flux in your hands

 

and probably you don't even have a serration over rank 7 and maxxed multishot

 

edit: but if you want to play like that, let's see what the best guns can do, acrid, lanka, ogris, torid, despair/kunai, soma

have fun 

 

edit2: here a well known quote:

the exception that proves the rule

Edited October 1, 2013 by Seira-EGT-

[Vigilance]

I agree with the notion that melee and gun play should be intertwined rather than separate. Actualy ninja's used ALL tools at their disposal and carried only what they needed for a mission. If they could use a gun to get the job done instead of getting into range with melee, of course they picked the gun.

The current game play style doesn't support a melee system very well considering there is little reason to use a gun even at lose range. If more enemies went up to your face and melee was strong enough, then melee would have a better chance and being integral to the play style, but sadly melee is too weak to be viable in it's current state.

To support the current game type, we would need melee weapons that offered utility, much like how Dual Zorens offer mobility, Galatine lets you clear out weapons swarming you where if you're caught mid reload, you actually DO need that melee weapon. Sadly other weapon types simply don't offer anything your guns can't do more efficiently. Single target melee weapons, I found to be extremely pointless when an acrid can melt things in seconds, and pistol ammo just isn't hard to find.

I like the idea of a melee mode, or perhaps a stance where you would use your melee AND guns differently where it favors your sword instead of your guns, you can have increased defense in this mode as well as presenting different abilities. Perhaps another set of skills just for the melee side of the frame? You can still use your side arm to flinch or distract while your blade does all the talking.

[Kato-san]

Make killing blow and pressure point go up to 10 levels so the damage can be decent.

[Ronyn]

Why are there some people pretending that melee isn't vastly underpowered?

There is no mod set up that makes melee as viable as gunplay.

Its simply not possible.

 

Can a person do a lot of missions with melee only? sure, depending on the level of enemies and the frame you're using.

BUT that doesn't mean melee is remotely comparable to guns in overall effectiveness.

 

The only valid argument is that Warframe is not meant to have equally viable melee combat.

While I completely disagree with that point of view, it is at least acknowledging the math of our current situation.

 

Also guys, in many livestreams DE has made references tow hat they will or wont do with melee.

I wouldn't hold too tightly to anything they said because a lot of that stuff is prone to change when they iterate and mess around with it.

[litlit]

Buffing melee damage definitely needs to happen, but I've been hoping that DE will also do other, more creative things with melee when they get around to making it viable.

 

It would be great to see an expansion on Zorencoptering, for example. Assuming that melee is actually a viable means of doing damage, that would be an interesting, meaningful choice for players to make: do I want to slash enemies to pieces, or do I sacrifice damage for the ability to sail through the air?

 

IMO, blocking mods should be melee mods instead of Warframe mods. Assuming (again) that blocking is actually worth doing at some point in the future, that would also be an interesting choice. Players would have the option of building their melee weapons to be based on mobility, defense, or offense.

Edited October 1, 2013 by litlit

[TwoCrabs]

I had a similar thought lately and just to make clear how underpowered melee is, imagine the skana would do 50-75base damage (no armor ingnor no nothing just basic damage)
and it still would be not as effective as a gun.
gallatine might seem overpowered, but I think its the first melee that actually is worth my while(zoren and kestrel excluded)
dakra and ichors are nice, but are completelly useless on high tier missons

[Mewtiger]

This is just crap that I put out in another thread about melee, but it fits.

 

I feel like what I'm suggesting could be an easy way to really flesh out melee and make it feel like it has options. Then again it could be said that the longer you spend 'comboing' things in melee the more the pace of the game slows down.

 

Letting Fury, Pressure Point, and Killing Blow rank up to 10 I feel would be an easy way to assess the situation.

 

My suggestion is the ability to block knockdowns(and even bullets/flame better), plus an aerial, 360 degree ground, and wall-run charge attack. These charge attacks don't even need a unique animation.

 

What I would REALLY like to see is melee to be naturally 2x faster and there to be a manual launch/finisher button. (F)

 

I have a dream of sprinting into a room, and immediately launching a level 90 heavy into

 

Launch(F)Hold -> Aerial E -> Aerial Charge E -> Ground Finisher

                                         

                                                         And/Or    -> 360 or Normal Charge Attack

                                                                      

                                                         And/Or    -> Helicopter out

 

Crouch+E(Hold) = 360 Degree Ground (Helicopter in place)

Wallrun+E(Hold) = Faster Farther More Powerful With A Shockwave Please Wallrun Attack

Jump+E(Hold) = Airstall into bigger groundsmash with loadsadamage at weapon impact point

OR E(Hold)+Jump = Mini-Hop into ^

F or Mousebutton 5 = Launch/Finisher

E(Hold) = Single target dpsing friendly forward charge attack

[Mainabi]

This is just crap that I put out in another thread about melee, but it fits.

 

I feel like what I'm suggesting could be an easy way to really flesh out melee and make it feel like it has options. Then again it could be said that the longer you spend 'comboing' things in melee the more the pace of the game slows down.

 

Letting Fury, Pressure Point, and Killing Blow rank up to 10 I feel would be an easy way to assess the situation.

 

My suggestion is the ability to block knockdowns(and even bullets/flame better), plus an aerial, 360 degree ground, and wall-run charge attack. These charge attacks don't even need a unique animation.

 

What I would REALLY like to see is melee to be naturally 2x faster and there to be a manual launch/finisher button. (F)

 

I have a dream of sprinting into a room, and immediately launching a level 90 heavy into

 

Launch(F)Hold -> Aerial E -> Aerial Charge E -> Ground Finisher

                                         

                                                         And/Or    -> 360 or Normal Charge Attack

                                                                      

                                                         And/Or    -> Helicopter out

 

Crouch+E(Hold) = 360 Degree Ground (Helicopter in place)

Wallrun+E(Hold) = Faster Farther More Powerful With A Shockwave Please Wallrun Attack

Jump+E(Hold) = Airstall into bigger groundsmash with loadsadamage at weapon impact point

OR E(Hold)+Jump = Mini-Hop into ^

F or Mousebutton 5 = Launch/Finisher

E(Hold) = Single target dpsing friendly forward charge attack

killng blow already does really well if the next melee are between orthos/gram and galatine!

 

even if pressurepoint goes up to 240% it's still pretty weak, it will still easily getting outperformed by guns, and fury up to rank 10 with 120% attackspeed? that might be interesting, but still won't help regular melee enough to make them top

Edited October 1, 2013 by Seira-EGT-

[Nuparu92]

Did anyone do a melee build with all these new melee mods? i want to but i dont have them all. there is like a new mod that returns damage if blocked. then there is this "auto-block" mod. I imagine that if you got all those together and ranked up you could do a real awesome melee build.

I have. I put all these mods on my ranked out potatoed rhino, with the galatine. It preforms very well, below level 60. But still, when you get to level 70-100, you get your &#! torn up if you even try to melee.

 

On another point, everyone that sees this, grab your best melee weapon, and play a level on mercury or venus using ONLY melee. Amazing isn't it? It should be like that on much higher levels, not just the low ones. Ninjas are quick swift death, for the love of god DE, fix our melee T_T

[Mewtiger]

What if... normal attacks built up damage over hits that gets released when you charge attack?

 

This might help out Fang by making melee:on mode ramp up damage after a couple hits, because lets face it if you dont finish killing something with 3-5 melee swings then whats the point? This isn't even taking heavies into account (infinity normal attacks to kill) and god I hope melee feels good against them one day.

 

I just really wish that there was a way to make the combo AND the charge attack viable. I feel so akward with only a charge attack build, and melee mode:on seems really ineffective by comparison.

 

Also yeah if Killing Blow went to 10 it would need to be scaled downwards a little bit with current charge damage being what it is. On the other hand I think it would be fair and 'balanced' if 75% of melee charge attacks one-shot your target. Melee as of now feels really inbalanced in terms of risk vs rewards, so if you spend all that time running up to someone while limiting your options with a charge attack and putting yourself out of cover and in a risky situation you should at least assassinate the thing you did all that for even moments before you get bullet-hosed.

 

Or even more likely - everything gets vaporized by ults or wombocombod by sanic ninjas with max ranked primaries and secondaries before your charge attack even finishes. 

[DJPon3.]

Actually if you think in regards to Ash + Melee channel + whatever melee and mods you use. DE Has been trying to make it more viable FOR THE FRAMES THAT MELEE IS MORE LENIENT TO, for example Saryn, and Ash, both have abilities that can help them with melee, whether its damage buffing or gap closing. The system isnt the greatest melee system but its being worked on, people over look a lot of things. 

[Hayden11121]

Melee don't run out of ammo.

Neither do guns, in most cases.

[Mainabi]

Actually if you think in regards to Ash + Melee channel + whatever melee and mods you use. DE Has been trying to make it more viable FOR THE FRAMES THAT MELEE IS MORE LENIENT TO, for example Saryn, and Ash, both have abilities that can help them with melee, whether its damage buffing or gap closing. The system isnt the greatest melee system but its being worked on, people over look a lot of things. 

but the best frames for melee are still loki and ash for their invis AND rhino, saryns just sits in the back and waits

 

edit: and melee channel also goes only once per channel,

 

that's nothing 

Edited October 2, 2013 by Seira-EGT-

[Beas7ie]

love the melee mode idea. it will still be a choice, as the rest said.

 

I love the melee mode idea as well but would also like to see a better melee system implemented.  Such as more animation and maybe a chance to "instakill" certain enemies.  I think it would be cool to kill combo enemies like Assassins Creed or maybe just become a slashing badass of death like in Ninja Gaiden.

[Onite]

I love the melee mode idea as well but would also like to see a better melee system implemented.  Such as more animation and maybe a chance to "instakill" certain enemies.  I think it would be cool to kill combo enemies like Assassins Creed or maybe just become a slashing badass of death like in Ninja Gaiden.

Yeah, i really want to have a playstyle like i'm actually partly a swordsman. Not an amateur nerd that bought a replica katana at my local pawn shop.

[[DE]Rebecca]

I think continued development demands review of the Melee component of Warframe as a whole. This is something that's discussed a lot, when solid plans emerge - whether weapon by weapon or whatever designers have planned, we will let you know. Thanks for thoughts here. 

[Doforcash]

ohh..ohh...do the graphing button XD

[blahdenoma]

Just looking at my own stats:

 

48,670 total kills

2,228 melee kills (of which 1,325 are from thrashing low-level infested with Rhino + Hate)

 

So I kill things with melee 4.5% of the time, if you want to be generous.  Only 1.8% of the time if you disregard the Hate stat.  I'll be honest...if I didn't need to rank them up to gain mastery, I wouldn't even use melee at all.  That doesn't seem to be ideal, from a simple marketing perspective.  If melee isn't useful, people aren't going to spend money on melee-related stuff.  I stopped potato'ing my melee weapons a long time ago, and I only buy the slots for the satisfaction of collecting the items.  If they tripled or quadrupled the damage output from them, I might be tempted to buy a few more catalysts.  Just sayin'.

[Konnstruct]

I agree with this COMPLETELY, especially since I primarily use Ash, and that my FAVORITE form in terms of mechanics is most definitely melee, it's what got me into the game in the first place.

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Well, I've been trying to use the blocking feature of melee weapons more, but I can't seem to find a way to make a use of it. Even with a maxed out marathon and quick rest, it drains too quickly while you're using it and gives you very little if any in return. I don't know how much damage gets blocked, but it doesn't feel like its a lot. For draining that much of my energy, it should give me a complete immunity to projectiles. And as I've said in another thread, the amount of stamina normal attacks use compared to charge attacks is disproportionate in my opinion. Stamina cost of swings, charged and normal, should be balanced around how much base damage and attack rate a melee weapon has.

 

Hint: Adding a native mechanic(no, not another mod) that turns expended stamina per swing into bonus damage for melee weapons would save you the trouble of rebalancing the numbers on most melees.

 

In regards to the marathon mod, I would like to propose a change. I would like to see it changed from a straight up stamina capacity increasing mod to a streamline-esque passive that decreases the continued stamina cost per drainrate the longer you are expending stamina. It should have a cap of course, but the gradual increase in power efficiency would make actions like prolonged sprinting(sprint-sliding would interrupt the new function) or blocking more powerful without causing already superior movement techniques to become even more unbalanced.

 

 

They also need to get rid of the exploit from dual weapons, especially Dual Zorens giving you these massive boosts in speed when you do Shift, Ctrl, E.

 

That's all players want to use them for.

 

 Fully agreed.

Edited October 3, 2013 by AuroraSonicBoom

[Loswaith]

...

Common sense for two. Getting hit with a big piece of metal typically inflicts a lot more damage to a living thing than getting hit with a relatively small bullet does, to say nothing of the motorbike-sized axes, swords, and hammers we have in-game. For a bit of history, note the introduction of things like "bayonets" in the 1600's; because despite common belief, prior to inventions like that, when (not if) a pack of angry armored guys with swords reached the guys with guns, the guys with the guns tended to get slaughtered unless they were backed up by pikemen.

Actually this is incorrect, getting hit by metal at high velocity means it impacts with more force than a person could possibly bring to bear (even a Tenno in a warframe), your examples are of metal going 50 to 100 times more velocity than a sword.  If they could employ such force the weapon would either fly out of their hands, dislocate their sholders or tear there arms/fingers off (assuming they lock the weapon in their grip).

 

While they had bayonets and melee weapons, you forget a simple thing, rifles are fairly useless in close combat.  Many people closing against a gun or bow were killed before they got even close to the target.  Warframe (and most other games) still lets you use it however.  Guns are also simpler to use, training to be effective in melee weapons is allot longer process (and typically wont save you from someone with 10% of the training in a gun killing/disabling you)

 

The force of a bullet is extreem enough in some cases to go straight through the body, this is why a bullet is much better.  Its a large quantity of force (more than a melee weapon could ever hope to achieve) in a small impact zone.

 

Relativly few people however died as a result of the initial melee weapons impact, usualy they died due to bleed out (the luckier ones), infection (a big portion), shock and numerious other ancilliary conditions.

 

Hate to break it to you, but stabbing victims or victims of car accidents via shrapnel or impalement usually never ever make it. Talk to any war veteran that's been shot. They'll tell you getting shot sucks. But ask construction workers and lumberjacks about horror stories and i'll bet you the ratio of survivors is much less.

This is often (abet not always) because war veterans have trained medics on hand (they are also trained and often experienced with getting shot and are less likely to do stuff to make it worse), the others dont.  Keep in mind again the force that construction workers and lumberjacks and car accident victims face is vastly superior to that of what a melee weapon can employ (they also have little protection). 

 

...

On another point, everyone that sees this, grab your best melee weapon, and play a level on mercury or venus using ONLY melee. Amazing isn't it? It should be like that on much higher levels, not just the low ones. Ninjas are quick swift death, for the love of god DE, fix our melee T_T

Actually no it shouldnt, because do that with your gun you have the same result of the game not having any challenge.   If you could do that on higher levels you may as well get rid of taking any damage at all, beacuse that would be the result.

Edited October 3, 2013 by Loswaith