Empyrean and the decline of Warframe

[HyperDiver]

hace 1 minuto, fish_wet dijo:

As expected , let`s all vote for communism , we all know how that ends. Obviously expressing an opinion nowadays is not encouraged.

Kudos to the mind police !

Because real life government and politics in real life are equally important as an online-based game. Ok, doomer.

 

[fish_wet]

4 minutes ago, HyperDiver said:

Because real life government and politics in real life are equally important as an online-based game. Ok, doomer.

Nope Gloomer 🙂 It`s called a double standard , it`s all fine if we praise , say one "wrong" thing and you are being shamed immediately....

Anyway since ,

6 minutes ago, fish_wet said:

Can we put a forum-wide ban on "Warframe is dying"

what are you even doin here ... It`s obvious you do not enjoy this , or do you :D.

Edited December 27, 2019 by fish_wet

[Awazx]

hace 30 minutos, M3tallius dijo:

https://www.statista.com/statistics/980474/warframe-number-players-steam/

Your statements are objectively untrue.

Your statements are objectively untrue.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Awazx

[HyperDiver]

Justo ahora, fish_wet dijo:

why are you even doin here ... It`s obvious you do not enjoy this , or do you :D.

Already explained above, read carefully the following:
 

hace 10 minutos, HyperDiver dijo:

I was about to post the same thing:

Every doomsayer in the forums is about to get a very a very very big load of reality right in their face once they realize Warframe has been a Top Seller for 3 years straight, and a Gold one the year before that (2016).

 

[fish_wet]

1 minute ago, HyperDiver said:

read carefully the following:

I have read quite carefully and my post precedes the one with the statistics....

Have not even commented on the financial side of things.

Logic is a bit missing , because feelings I guess.

P.S game rewards are a bit overrated, movie reviews as well, an example :

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi

Please entertain us....

 

[JackHargreav]

Bunch of guys barking at eachother for nothing.

That's the description of this post.

[Awazx]

hace 2 minutos, JackHargreav dijo:

Bunch of guys barking at eachother for nothing.

That's the description of this post.

You can make a difference and provide quality content that enriches this publication, whether you agree with me or not. It's welcome.

[HyperDiver]

hace 15 minutos, fish_wet dijo:

I have read quite carefully and my post precedes the one with the statistics....

Have not even commented on the financial side of things.

Logic is a bit missing , because feelings I guess.

P.S game rewards are a bit overrated, movie reviews as well, an example :

https://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/star_wars_the_last_jedi

Please entertain us....

 

I was not going to engage, but I want to clarify: there is a difference between an Award and a review, and those are not the same.

Awards are assigned by Steam based strictly on income generation (you can read about it, google that). In a nutshell, based on numbers.

Reviews are author-based opinions based, well, on whatever scale the reviewer feels like talking about. In a nutshell, based on feelings.

And numbers are objectively precise, while feelings are subjective. So Steam's Top Seller chart each year is a rather transparent way of telling the entire internet: "hey, kiddos, these things are generating the most money". Warframe has not moved from the Platinum category in 3 years, and it is consistently among the Most played games (Top 10-15). Based entirely on the data we can pretty quickly conclude the entire "this game is dying" premise is nonsense, because as a service it generates a ludicrous amount of money and attracts, despite apparent contractions, a really large amount of players to itself consistently every single month.

There you go. The beauty of data.

EDIT: Replaced "Reward" with "Award", which I assume was you meant behind "game rewards are a bit overrated", otherwise what you just said makes no sense.

 

Edited December 27, 2019 by HyperDiver

[peterc3]

13 minutes ago, fish_wet said:

P.S game rewards are a bit overrated, movie reviews as well, an example :

There's awards given by panels of humans that reflect the biases and whims of those humans, and then there are those like the Steam one, that are awarded based on raw data.

"Warframe is dying" should trigger the forum to modify the profile pic with a dunce cap. It wasn't true then, it isn't true now and it won't be true for the foreseeable future.

[JackHargreav]

6 minutes ago, Awazx said:

You can make a difference and provide quality content that enriches this publication, whether you agree with me or not. It's welcome.

There's nothing quality about the whole post.

There's nothing to be said. Simply because every update ever brings a new game is dying post that ends up the same way as every other the game is dying post.

It's the same as the "I quit" posts. Pointless, goes nowhere and no one benefits from it.

[Awazx]

hace 2 minutos, peterc3 dijo:

"Warframe is dying" 

The title of my thread does not say "Warframe is dying." And the content of the post (I invite you to read it carefully) does not talk about player or commercial statistics. Talk about the decline of Warframe as a game system, which includes: content, product quality, economic policy towards the player.

In other words: Warframe is becoming a worse product, regardless of income statistics or the number of players you have at this time.

[peterc3]

1 minute ago, Awazx said:

Warframe is becoming a worse product

In spite of literally every metric being positive.

This is about you and not the game.

[Awazx]

hace 5 minutos, peterc3 dijo:

In spite of literally every metric being positive.

This is about you and not the game.

Two things:

1. If you look at the graph included in the previous answer, the metric is not positive, with a tendency to decrease.

2. Even if the metric were positive, that would not demonstrate an improvement, nor does it contradict the game as getting worse as a product. Many companies and products suffer the greatest crises in their best moments of success, among other reasons, because success is misleading and usually lives from the past.

Edited December 27, 2019 by Awazx

[fish_wet]

19 minutes ago, HyperDiver said:

There you go. The beauty of data.

Indeed , it`s all about the benjamins.

Which is why most new WF players do quit after a couple of hours simply being overwhelmed , thus no in game guidance is provided , or at least limited.

Btw , someone mentioned that DE was owned by a HK company , so yes the focus of the whole endeavour is to generate financial inflow.

On the data topic - statistics do show that after each new update there is a peak of users returning to game just to quit a week later.

And this is why i posted in the fist place  :  too many bugs , rushed content and not enough polish on the existing core components. Not saying it lightly like someone who played 30 hours total...

It`s like a mashed potato salad , some like it smooth , others with crunchy pieces , if you get me.

Or maybe reread my post about the tooth brush reference.

Edited December 27, 2019 by fish_wet

[peterc3]

4 minutes ago, fish_wet said:

most new WF players do quit after a couple of hours

You have a source for this? Further, a source that explains why people leave and not just that they no longer play?

5 minutes ago, Awazx said:

Two things:

1. If you look at the graph included in the previous answer, the metric is not positive, with a tendency to decrease.

2. Even if the metric were positive, that would not demonstrate an improvement, nor does it contradict the game as getting worse as a product. Many companies and products suffer the greatest crises in their best moments of success, among other reasons, because success is misleading and usually lives from the past.

From the start of the graph, it is a general increase. This is about your feelings with regards to the game. You not liking the direction does not make it a bad or worsening game. This is doomsday prediction not a sober look at the state of the game. I genuinely don't know what exactly you are trying to say here.

16 minutes ago, Awazx said:

The title of my thread does not say "Warframe is dying."

To go back to this, I never said it was. I quoted someone else. I was responding to someone else.

[Awazx]

hace 2 minutos, peterc3 dijo:

This is about your feelings with regards to the game. You not liking the direction does not make it a bad or worsening game.

In my thread I don't talk about feelings, but about facts. And if you want, I can gladly repeat the reasons that lead me to say that Warframe is getting worse as a product. Facts, not feelings.

[HyperDiver]

hace 2 minutos, fish_wet dijo:

On the data topic - statistics do show that after each new update there is a peak of users returning to game just to quit a week later.

And this is why i posted in the fist place  :  too many bugs , rushed content and not enough polish on the existing core components. Not saying it lightly like someone who played 30 hours total...

It`s like a mashed potato salad , some like it smooth , others with crunchy pieces , if you get me.

Or maybe reread my post about the tooth brush reference.

1500+ hours of Warframe, maybe more. Didn't even read your post lol, I was not reacting to your specific argument but to these "game is dying" threads which are absolute nonsense. If you don't like the game anymore then, as I posted above, leave. Game will be fine and dandy and when/if you return game will still be around for you to peruse and enjoy and maybe even criticize, again.

The reason you don't see bigger numbers on my post count is because I enjoy the game more than writing about it, AND I don't like to feed the trolls and I don't like engaging in Warframe-is-decaying threads, and sadly the forums are full of both.

Whenever I see any post titled: "this game is dying" I don't agree because the data does show otherwise, and avoid it if don't have anything else of value to add to a discussion that does not add anything of value itself. I could write a thesis-long post about why these doom-saying posts have no value on their own, and while I do appreciate the clear attempt from OP to separate financial success from entertaining gameplay (which is true, and if you need any example you have Pokémon, with shorter and simpler games overselling more complex ones time and again), there is nothing else there of value to the community in the post itself. Empyrean Part 1 needs polish? Yes, they know. Empyrean feels disconnected from the core gameplay experience?  Yes, they know. Empyrean plays differently from Starchart content? That's on purpose. You don't like it? That's on you. But instead of removing content (like Pokémon did) they are adding new one, so I don't think you can actually correlate your enjoyment of the game to the quality of it.

There is a clear difference from useful feedback and obnoxious doom-and-gloom posts, and this thread falls in the latter. So, I'll leave it with the recently coined phrase: "ok, doomer" and be done with it. Hope you find the fun you lost here in whatever endeavor you decide to pursue, Awazx.

[peterc3]

2 minutes ago, Awazx said:

In my thread I don't talk about feelings, but about facts. And if you want, I can gladly repeat the reasons that lead me to say that Warframe is getting worse as a product. Facts, not feelings.

What facts? Like the irrelevant player numbers or revenue?

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

On 2019-12-13 at 5:45 PM, Daziri said:

It's your fault you have forgotten your archwing, meanwhile I happen to enjoy my Amesha.

You can't blame a player for not doing content the devs neglected for years now suddenly wants to pick back up

[Awazx]

hace 1 minuto, peterc3 dijo:

What facts? Like the irrelevant player numbers or revenue?

What if we talk about the state of the game as a product and forget for a moment the statistics of income / players? What if we talk about the latest design decisions by DE that are killing the product we know? What if we talk about the facts that can change in the future those wonderful statistics that you defend?

[fish_wet]

1 minute ago, peterc3 said:

I genuinely don't know what exactly you are trying to say here.

I on the other had genuinely do not think you are paying attention , it`s like a big brick wall , it clouds the vision. That`s why included the following , for people that do not like or have the time to read , it sums it up in a sentence :

"TL;DR - Tired of the game , going to play some Destiny, too many bugs , rushed content and not enough polish on the existing core components."

P.S and by saying tired , it mainly refers to the half baked content and bugs.

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

2 minutes ago, fish_wet said:

I on the other had genuinely do not think you are paying attention , it`s like a big brick wall , it clouds the vision. That`s why included the following , for people that do not like or have the time to read , it sums it up in a sentence :

"TL;DR - Tired of the game , going to play some Destiny, too many bugs , rushed content and not enough polish on the existing core components."

P.S and by saying tired , it mainly refers to the half baked content and bugs.

Peter defends the game to no end don't engage with brother

[(PSN)sweatshawp]

6 minutes ago, peterc3 said:

What facts? Like the irrelevant player numbers or revenue?

How are player numbers irrelevant? disregard my last post I'm genuinely interested 

[HyperDiver]

Thread is done, Steam Awards just killed it, it will degrade into ad hominem ad nauseam if not so already, so I will leave this warning to future thread-readers: Leave. Go have good fun somewhere else.

[peterc3]

5 minutes ago, Awazx said:

What if we talk about the state of the game as a product

Then why isn't the overall revenue and user count relevant?

5 minutes ago, Awazx said:

What if we talk about the latest design decisions by DE that are killing the product we know?

This is subjective. Feelings.

5 minutes ago, Awazx said:

What if we talk about the facts that can change in the future those wonderful statistics that you defend?

Again, not fact. This is speculation. DE's HQ could be hit by a meteor.

2 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said:

How are player numbers irrelevant? disregard my last post I'm genuinely interested 

The OP said the numbers were irrelevant to "the product".

Edited December 27, 2019 by peterc3