Short Hydroid changes request

[Graive]

I wanted to make some change suggestions that I figure would be easy to implement (by reusing former code with very limited animation or AI changes) on DEs part. I didn't want to call this a rework because I love Hydroid and want him to still keep his Hydroid-y feel while making sure players could do more than puddle to stay safe.The goal was to speed up his game-play a little by reducing time to kill, and add overall earned viability. 

 

HALF ALL CAST TIMES AND REMOVE CHARGE MECHANICS. Change his passive, and keep the same abilities, adding additional effects.

-Passive - Pilfering Pirate. Hydroid's pilfering storm augment now applies to all abilities. If an enemy is touched by one of Hydroid's abilities they have an increased chance to drop a resource or energy orb.

For a level 30 Hydroid:

1 - The Corroding Barrage augment is now innate. In the following description, barrage means the ability as a whole whereas salvo refers to individual water explosions. Salvo radius now scales based on power strength (5m+0.05*Power Strength), barrage area scales based on power range (10m+0.05*Power Range). Number of salvo instances now equals 20 + 0.08*Power Strength. Number of salvo's launched per second now equals 0.06*Power Duration. When an enemy is within the casting radius, salvo charges only target the enemies within the radius, not the environment. When no enemies are within the radius, salvo charges remain in the ground and seek out enemies when they enter the casting radius. His new augment, asphyxiating barrage, adds gas damage upon salvo impact, and gives the party a gas buff when held (like all the other elemental based warframes).
2 - Increase Tidal Surge maneuverability (similar to Revenant's Reave), setting height when cast to .2m off the ground to avoid lip collisions. Additionally, Tidal Surge now grants a stackable buff based on # of enemies hit (20% damage resistance up to 90%), similar stacking mechanic to Rhino's Ironclad Charge. The timer scales on duration (20s base). The timer refreshes when new enemies are hit with Tidal Surge but the buff % resets only after the timer has expired. Optional: add to his current augment. A copy paste of Ember's Immolated Radiance, granting allies 50% current damage resistance and wiping ally status effect.
3 - Puddle now attracts enemies, but does not alert them (similar to Ivara's noise arrow) for the first 10 seconds after casting. The speed of movement while puddled is doubled, and pulling enemies into puddle with Hydroid's tendril uses an auto fire rather than the current semi-auto fire. Casting Tidal Surge while puddled takes 1/2 the energy and, puddle submerges your companion now. While puddled Hydroid heals a set amount of health per second scaled on power strength (0.05*Power Strength). Upon exiting puddle Hydroid receives two buffs, a continuation of his health per second buff and a Critical damage buff (1.5%*Power Strength). The duration of these buffs while outside puddle scales on Power Duration (10s+0.1s*Power Duration). The mechanic for these suggestions is similar to Saryn's Regenerative Molt augment. Hydroid's Currative Undertow augment now adds his health regen and critical damage buffs to all alllies that have touched his puddle and to companions within 15m of Hydroid.
4 -  Change magnetic damage dealt to true damage. Damage dealt by tentacles now scales with duration and power, increasing their strength by 15% every second they are active. A final burst of true damage (based on the final amount of damage the tentacles were inflicting) is created when the ability finishes. The blast radius is 5-15m and scales with range (think similar to Mag's Magnetize ability). Damage inflicted on enemies while held by tentacles is doubled. Hydroid's new augment, Extended Swarm, now increases the duration of Tentacle Swarm by 4 seconds for every enemy killed by tentacle swarm while held (maximum 75s). While this augment is equipped, Tentacle Storm's damage is capped based on the maximum duration of a normal cast. Recasting the ability while active maintains the damage accumulated, but resets the ability duration.

Edited January 28, 2020 by Graive
Included some suggestions from post. Formatted to read easier. Capitalized faster cast times and charge mechanics so people see it easier.

[3viserator]

Maybe for his 3, make it move faster and reduce the energy drain when moving around in a puddle. That or make casting his 2 while in puddle cost no energy.

 

(edit 1)

Another idea for his 3, make it give him a buff upon exiting it that lets him absorb projectiles/ (maybe melee weaps thus disarming them) which would store dmg similar to volt's passive. Dmg would be consumed upon your next hit but since this is a duration based buff, dmg upkeep would be reliable. (not sure what kind of bonus stored dmg).

(edit 2)

For his 2 augment, make it give damage reduction to allies that he passes through at half efficiency. He is a support frame and this would be a nice way to reinforce that if players so choose to use the augment.

Edited December 30, 2019 by 3viserator

[Jhura]

Sounds similar to what I was thinking for Hydroid. Here is what I though would work well.

Passive: Liquid Form - after casting an ability or exiting puddle Hydroid is immune to damage for 3 seconds.

1: Remover charge, but holding the ability lets you tag enemies. Tagged enemies will get hit with an initial barrage when the ability casts.

2: Allow quick tap to use the ability as normal, or hold down the ability to spend an additional x energy per second to continue in wave form and grow in size.

3: Increase puddle size the more enemies you trap within the puddle.

4: Add a final burst of damage when the ability finishes.

 

This would add a bit more utility and be relativly easy to change.

[Graive]

3 hours ago, Jhura said:

Sounds similar to what I was thinking for Hydroid. Here is what I though would work well.

Passive: Liquid Form - after casting an ability or exiting puddle Hydroid is immune to damage for 3 seconds.

1: Remover charge, but holding the ability lets you tag enemies. Tagged enemies will get hit with an initial barrage when the ability casts.

2: Allow quick tap to use the ability as normal, or hold down the ability to spend an additional x energy per second to continue in wave form and grow in size.

3: Increase puddle size the more enemies you trap within the puddle.

4: Add a final burst of damage when the ability finishes.

 

This would add a bit more utility and be relativly easy to change.

You're right, very similar ideas. I think a mix of the two ideas might be best.

Passive: I think sticking with a damage buff here would be ideal especially since Hydroid's ability to deal damage is lacking in general. Even though more damage immunity would be great, I feel like after all ability casts would be overpowered, especially since 1. rolling guard exists 2. Hydroid already has more invincibility frames than any other warframe 3. he needs consistent damage reduction, not only immediately after casting.

1. I'm not crazy about tagging enemies since Ash's tagging mechanic feels so clunky already, but I understand your goal was to reduce the rng nature of the ability here. I've got no good suggestions 😕

2. Good in concept, hard for players to execute (holding 2 and steering simultaneously). Maybe just make it a toggle?

3. Love it!

4. Love it!

Edited December 29, 2019 by Graive
a few words

[Graive]

6 hours ago, 3viserator said:

Maybe for his 3, make it move faster and reduce the energy drain when moving around in a puddle. That or make casting his 2 while in puddle cost no energy.

 

Another idea for his 3, make it give him a buff upon exiting it that lets him absorb projectiles/ (maybe melee weaps thus disarming them) which would store dmg similar to volt's passive. Dmg would be consumed upon your next hit but since this is a duration based buff, dmg upkeep would be reliable. (not sure what kind of bonus stored dmg).

I like both these ideas! Increased speed would be great, and absorb upon exiting would be nice as well. I didn't suggest these only because I feel like a buff based on power str and duration might be easier to code, but I could definitely see them just snipping code from rhino for this.

[kapn655321]

Very sensible asks.

I could live with that kit if that's all they get to do to him.
We all have our ways we'd go about it, and yours are pretty good.
Thanks for keeping Hydroid in the focus, OP. 😃

 

Edited December 29, 2019 by kapn655321

[AzulMage]

21 hours ago, Graive said:

I wanted to make some change suggestions that I figure would be easy to implement (by reusing former code) on DEs part. I didn't want to call this a rework because I love Hydroid and want him to still keep his Hydroid-y feel while making sure players could do more than puddle to stay safe.The goal was to speed up his game-play a little by reducing time to kill, and add overall earned viability. 

First and foremost, half all cast times, and remove charge mechanics. Change his passive, and keep the same abilities, adding additional effects.

-Passive - increases Hydroid's damage by 25% when enemies are knocked down or ragdolled. All his abilities cause knockdown so it just makes sense. 

1 - 30% more barrage instances with radius scaling based on power range. Optional: Make his current augment innate. His new augment doubles the water missiles and gives the party a gas damage buff when held (like all the other elemental based warframes).
2 - Increase Tidal Surge movement speed. Similar to Rhino's Ironclad Charge, Tidal Surge now grants a stackable buff based on # of enemies hit (15% damage resistance up to 90%). The timer scales on duration (10s base). The timer refreshes when new enemies are hit with Tidal Surge but the buff % resets only after the timer has expired.
3 - Puddle now submerges your companion as well. Similar to Harrow's Covenant, Hydroid and his companion receive three seconds of invincibility upon exiting puddle, after which Hydroid receives two buffs that scale dependent on damage absorbed while invincible and power strength (1.50% per 100 damage points prevented) : a Health regen buff based on enemy kills (5% of health per kill at base up to a maximum of 40%) and Critical damage buff (25% critical damage at base up to a maximum of 200%). These buffs have a timer which is dependent on Duration (15s base).  Optional: Make his augment also regen health on enemy kill for allies and companions.
4 -  Add a final burst of damage when the ability finishes.

Nice changes. I would add WAY more maneuverability for his 2 especially with the added functionality you added. For his 3, I would love if it had an aggro/lure effect so enemies more willingly go into the puddle without having to aim and drag them in. That change makes it better CC (Hydroid's current MO) and more potential for damage. Lastly, his 4 needs to not launch enemies to the stratosphere on initial cast, not flail enemies around wildly (grab them in place so Hydroid and teammates can actually aim and shoot at them), and also find a way to increase number of tentacles not just area of effect range.

[Graive]

2 hours ago, (NSW)SantCruz said:

Nice changes. I would add WAY more maneuverability for his 2 especially with the added functionality you added. For his 3, I would love if it had an aggro/lure effect so enemies more willingly go into the puddle without having to aim and drag them in. That change makes it better CC (Hydroid's current MO) and more potential for damage. Lastly, his 4 needs to not launch enemies to the stratosphere on initial cast, not flail enemies around wildly (grab them in place so Hydroid and teammates can actually aim and shoot at them), and also find a way to increase number of tentacles not just area of effect range.

Adding your ideas on his 2 and 3 to the post, they just make sense and fit the theme of this post perfectly.

Ideally I'd make his 2 a toggle-able ability to give it more maneuverability, but I feel like that would likely warrant an animation change (which would be more time consuming to implement). I feel like most changes to his 4 would also need animation changes, and it's the only reason I'm not adding them above.

[Jhura]

I also want to point out his lengthy charge time on abilities. Hydroid charging his 1 and 4 are quite long as compared to Vauban charging his 1 which happens rather quickly. Reducing the charge time might make the charge mechanic feel less clunky.

[Graive]

29 minutes ago, Jhura said:

I also want to point out his lengthy charge time on abilities. Hydroid charging his 1 and 4 are quite long as compared to Vauban charging his 1 which happens rather quickly. Reducing the charge time might make the charge mechanic feel less clunky.

Formatted my post to highlight this a little more. It was somewhat hidden in there due to formatting.

[kapn655321]

1 minute ago, Graive said:

It was somewhat hidden in there due to formatting.

I know that feeling.
Spent nearly 120 hours on a Hydroid rework, barely anybody read it. lol

[Jhura]

36 minutes ago, kapn655321 said:

I know that feeling.
Spent nearly 120 hours on a Hydroid rework, barely anybody read it. lol

Trying to keep up with this one, didn't see your ideas but would be happy to read them. 

 

40 minutes ago, Graive said:

Formatted my post to highlight this a little more. It was somewhat hidden in there due to formatting.

Sorry must have missed it the first time, my brain is working slow today. I probably need more caffeine.

[kapn655321]

Just now, Jhura said:

Trying to keep up with this one, didn't see your ideas but would be happy to read them.

***Clarifying, this thread is about OP's ideas, and I don't want to jack the topic with this wall of ideas.
This here is posted since it was requested. You're welcome to read it, but not at all obligated or
encouraged to comment here about it.

 HYDROID: PIRATE ASSASSIN

Spoiler

(All ability values are given as unmodded value at Rank 30. All +/- with mods unless stated otherwise.)
(~Tide = "Depending Tide level in meter.")

PASSIVE:  THE TIDE   
Hydroid's abilities actively spawn Pool(s)Of Water and value
toward a Tide meter, earned from making enemies "Wet."
Abilities increase in Range with Tide.
Enemies become, "Wet," from abilities.
*"The faint sound of a distant Ship Bell's clang," alerts player to having fallen below 12.5% Tide.

Spoiler

*Tide Meter: (1.00 to 100)  

Passively generates 1.3 Tide per second (toward a maximum of 100 points) in a Tide meter.
Meter is replenished for each enemy, "Wet," (affected or hit) by Hydroid's abilities.
Each enemy that receives a, "Wet," status gives +2 Tide.
These enemies generate an additional 1.3 Tide per second for Hydroid's Tide.
"Wet," enemies have a chance to suffer brief Weapon Malfunction;
If killed (while "Wet,") enemies have a increased chance to drop Energy orbs.

Range increase                                            (+0% to +20% ~Tide)
Chance to drop Energy Orb                        +1% to +20%  ~Tide (max.cap. +20% from any Tide sources.)
Chance for Weapon Malfunction               +1% to +20% ~Tide (max.cap. 20% per player, +5% from Specter, 80%max.total.)
Malfunction rate                                          Every 6s-3s ~Tide
Duration of effect                                                   4s-8s ~Tide

Abilities leave Pool(s) Of Water.

Spoiler

(Ground Slams during "PIRATE MODE," may add Tentacle.)

When enemies come in contact with Pool(s) Of Water, they become, "Wet,"
and suffer either a brief Stagger(w/ -Friction), or Knockdown.
Each Pool Of Water may only, "Wet," as many as 2 enemies.

Possibly disregard*: Needs review: "Wet," enemies have (1% to 8% ~Tide) chance of generating
a new Pool at their feet every 3s. Enemies may only be wet by a Pool once every 18s.

The Size, Lifespan, and Max# of Pool(s) determined by Tide.

Size             2m to 4m ~Tide
Lifespan       3s to 6s ~Tide
Max#              3 to 6 ~Tide

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TEMPEST BARRAGE:
Target area with pouring rain.
Improves stealth conditions while impairing enemy movement & response.
Disables cameras; reveals fish in bodies of water. Does not alert enemies.

Spoiler

(Hold-to-charge time decreased to 1.8s instead of 3s.)
(1% - 100% ~Tide) Chance to leave Pool Of Water every 3s.
This ability stacks Duration up to 3 times when cast on itself.
You may have up to 3 active (instances or stacks total,) Tempest Barrage at any time.
(*Deals no Damage.. there's a darn good reason later.)

Drain                                                                      25 to 50 (charged)
Radius                                                                 10m to 15m ~Tide
Duration                                                                 5s to 10s (charged)
Enemy Damage/Movement Speed                     -20%   (max.cap. -70%)
Enemy Sight/Sound Detection                            -40%  (max.cap. -90%)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TIDAL SURGE:
"Crash through enemies in a ferocious wall of water."
(Movement style similar to, Wukong's "Cloud Walker," but limited by Gravity.)

Spoiler

Energy Cost                                                            50
Strength                                                                  300
Range                                                            6m (striking radius from center *depending Angle)
Angle                                                                   30 to 90 degree ~Tide
Distance                                                                 30m (per second)
Duration                                                                   1s (wave duration)

HOLD-TO-CAST:
Remain stationary issuing waves forward, instead of becoming the wave.

Spoiler

Consumes portion of Tide while returning a portion of Energy cost per enemy hit.

Tide Consumed/Energy Returned                    6% to 20% ~Tide

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
UNDERTOW:
"Become a water trap and drown unsuspecting enemies."
Undertow augments functions of other abilities while active.
On the surface, it's the same, but there is a complex layer just beneath.
This state is now referred to as, "THE SHALLOWS."
 

Spoiler

Energy Drain                                                          - as is -
Damage, "Tick," rate                                   +0% to +20% ~Tide
Grab Cost                                                              - as is -
Meters per Energy                                                      "
Strength                                                                      "
Duration                                                                      "
Range                                                                         "   

Pressing Jump while in "THE SHALLOWS," of Undertow will now also exit/end Undertow.
Pressing crouch withdraws Radius by 30%. Hydroid's passive Tide generation increases by +3 per second.

*Casting Tempest Barrage from within, "THE SHALLOWS,":

Spoiler

Cast instance of Tempest Barrage receives Bonus 50% chance-to-spawn:
(0 to 2 additional) Pool(s) Of Water once every 5s.
Range                                                           +10% to +30% ~Tide
Duration of bonus                                             3s to 6s ~Tide

 HOLD-TO-CAST: Increase Range of Undertow 15% while-charging.
Tempest Barrage receives a brief additional bonus to Range.

*Casting Tidal Surge from within, "THE SHALLOWS.":

Spoiler

(As is, +15% base Distance .)

HOLD-TO-CAST:
Cast a wave(as you would outside of Undertow) from Undertow's outer edge. (camera=forward)
Radius of A.o.E. wave equal to **Movement Wave Aura. (listed below, under: Tidal Surge (PIRATE MODE)

Tap-To-Cast while Tidal Surge/"Tidal Wave" is active to Blink Undertow's location to that of the most recent wave.

*Casting Riptide from within, "THE SHALLOWS.":

Spoiler

Tap-To-Cast on target surface to cast Riptide.
Aim camera down at center of Undertow, (or hold Zoom)
while casting Riptide to convert Undertow's surface into Whirlpool,
gaining Whirlpool's Damage tick increase bonus from Tide

 

HOLD-TO-CAST: Spend portion of Tide to cast Pool(s) Of Water.

Spoiler

Tide Cost                                                            6% to 20% ~Tide
Pool(s) Of Water                                                   1 to 3 ~Tide

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
RIPTIDE:
Cast a Whirlpool on target.
Acts similar to Undertow, but independent with new properties.

You may enter any instance of Whirlpool as though it were Undertow.

Spoiler

*Unlike Undertow, enemy auras do not transmit through.
Cast on target area. (Same with Tentacle Swarm, as though it were charged for range.)
Radius on cast is +50%, shrinking to normal sustained size at it's center over 3s.
Damage                                                                      25  (+2% per second)
Damage (per, "tick.")                                            +1% to +20% ~Tide
Duration                                                                      20s
Radius                                                                          6m
Tap-to-cast on target active Whirlpool to dismiss, consuming remaining time as Tide.

Entering Whirlpool:

Spoiler

Doing so engages Undertow as active, beginning it's Energy drain cost, but also adding the
~Tide bonus (Damage, "tick," rate increase,) of Undertow to Whirlpool(s).
Damage equal to Undertow's Damage, not including Undertow's Tide Tick-Rate bonus.

 

Casting Tempest Barrage onto any active Whirlpool

Spoiler

generates an additional 1.3 Tide per second.
This generation stacks (times active stacks of Tempest Barrage) active at Whirlpool(s), up to 3 times. 

Casting Tidal Surge across/into any active Whirlpool(s)

Spoiler

will give 1 to 5 Tide, depending current Range stat of that wave:
           <3.5m = +1 Tide
3.5m to 5.5m = +2 Tide
5.6m to 7.5m = +3 Tide
7.6m to 9.5m = +4 Tide
           >9.5m = +5 Tide

If any enemies are present within the Whirlpool,
one enemy (at random) will be withdrawn from Whirlpool by the wave;
encapsulated in suspended water as a giant clear drop/orb/glob (of water,) referred to as, "Rising Depths."
Enemies within "Rising Depths," continue to take damage as they would within Whirlpool.

Spoiler

 While suspended, enemies are Blinded, open to Finishers/Finisher Damage.
Enemies killed while in, "Rising Depths," grant bonuses on death (to self or ally responsible):
(Does not stack.)

Status (affliction) Duration                                 -30% to -60% ~Tide
Damage Reduction                                           +15% to +30% ~Tide
Evasion                                                              +10% to +20% ~Tide
Duration of bonus                                                 10s to 20s ~Tide

*Casting Tidal Surge at any active instance of, "Rising Depths,"
will deal it's Damage as Finisher Damage.
Tidal Surge's wave's Damage adds that
(Damage dealt to the enemy within, "Rising Depths,") to it's own.
From this point, the wave increases in Duration(1st) and Range(2nd),
converting the instance of, "Rising Depths," into bonus; creating a, "Tidal Wave."
 

"Tidal Wave," Duration increase             2x remaining Duration of Tidal Surge wave.
"Tidal Wave," Range increase                   (2x Range) x (improved remaining Duration.)

This enemies will then act as they would, as if hit with any other Tidal Surge wave.   

 

 

HOLD-TO-CAST Riptide to toggle PIRATE MODE channeled state.
PIRATE MODE: Activate a channeled state for Hydroid,
giving bonuses and augmented functions to all other abilities.
While active, Hydroid receives Evasion.
Enables: "THE DEEP."

Spoiler

(PIRATE MODE channel is Not deactivated by Nullifier fields.)
HOLD-TO-CAST Riptide will always toggle PIRATE MODE.
(On, always with casting cost; off, never having any casting cost.)

Bonuses:
+40% to +65% Evasion ~Tide
Channel cost is reduced ~Tide, inversely.
Lower Tide = cheaper (by up to 20% Efficiency). "Going Ashore."

When casting Riptide during PIRATE MODE:
You may have as many as 2 Whirlpools active, if Tide is not below 50% (for >5s.)

Upon activating PIRATE MODE, The Kraken's Tentacles spring up from all active Whirlpool(s).
All Instances of (player's) Undertow & Whirlpool, "open up," with a new area & method of actively engaging enemies beneath the, "water's," surface.
This state is referred to as, "THE DEEP."

Spoiler

THE DEEP: A "Room," with an invisible boundary,
 shaped similar to the inside of a shallow "Erlenmeyer flask,"
(roughly 2x the size of Undertow/Whirlpool surface area)
surrounded by an, "under water," skybox, as a seemingly endless ocean to all sides and beneath you.
Enemies are deposited into the same instance of, "THE DEEP," from any Undertow/Whirlpool you cast.
All enemies within, "THE DEEP," are as Lifted.
All abilities are augmented have different functions within, "THE DEEP."

Kraken behavior:
Tentacles deal 100 Impact / 100 Magnetic / 100 Viral per second.
     
     -During Low Tide, The Kraken grabs up enemies as flails them around the environment.
       (Similar to Tentacle Swarm as is.)
    
     -During High Tide, The Kraken pulls enemies into the Whirlpool,
       (Similar to as-cast-from-Undertow has a chance of doing now.)

Behavior of, "Flail enemies," or, "Dunk enemies," scales in chance,
performing either action more, or less often ~Tide.
Example: At 50% Tide meter, it will be random in it's decision to, "Flail/Dunk," enemies held.

Within THE DEEP is also, The whole Kraken, with homing tentacles beneath the waves.
Tentacles will reach out once every 6s passively taking hold of up to 2 enemies within THE DEEP each time.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tempest Barrage (PIRATE MODE)
(All new functions added onto the Non-PIRATE MODE functions.)
Volleys of Grapeshot are aimed directly at enemies (or target area).

Spoiler

Repeated casts within 5s lose 30% Accuracy.
Projectiles fall at erratic intervals worth 20% value per second.
Projectile count is additive per stack. (14/28/42)
Visual of, "Ghost Ship," appears to fire cannons behind Hydroid, fading promptly away into fog.
Does alert enemies.

Damage                                                                      100
Projectiles                         14 x Power Strength + Radius Divided across Targets (or Area).
Multishot                                                                  0 to 100% ~Tide
"Shattering Impact"                                                     1 to 10 ~Tide
(Shattering Impact value effects Eidolons.)

Environmental strikes have AoE as it is now; strikes against enemies have +2 Punch Through instead of AoE.

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tidal Surge (PIRATE MODE)
(HOLD-TO-CAST from Non-PIRATE MODE becomes Tap-To-Cast.)
Waves now consume 50% less Tide.
Hydroid receives +Movement Speed bonus

Spoiler

equal to 50% of Tidal Surge's movement rate (meter per sec.)
Waves will remain inert at your feet until you move, causing them to crash in place around you.
All bonus effects stack one additional time (Maximum 2 stacks total) and are removed by Nullifier fields.


Inert Wave Aura                                10% of Tidal Surge current striking radius  (20% on stack 2.)
**Movement Wave Aura                    30% of Tidal Surge current striking radius  (60% on stack 2.)

HOLD-TO-CAST:
Become, "The Thing from THE DEEP."
Summon (quasi-exalted) Tentacles for arms.

Spoiler

(3 per 'arm'), writhing and curling around each other.
(Similar to Saryn Prime's tendril like "hair."
One Tentacle has a hook for a, "hand.")

All attacks as, "The Thing From THE DEEP," (including Secondary Fire,)
cause enemies to become, "Wet."

"The Thing From THE DEEP," is not cancelled by Nullifier fields.
This state ends upon:
(Hold-to-) Re-Cast,
(When PIRATE MODE has ended,)
or when you run out of either Energy or Tide.

Spoiler

(Attacks per arm follow separate combos. No Combo Counter Meter in this mode.. yet.)

STANCE                 MELEE CLASS       COMBO NAME
Coiling Viper                  Whip                 Whistling Wind
Burning Wasp                Whip                Sparking Torture
"                "                        "                       Buzzing Sting
Homing Fang                Daggers                  Life Eater
Four Rider                      Claws             Aggravated Swarm
Malicious Raptor          Claws                   Wicked Slash
*Cyclone Kraken         Machetes           Leviathan Rain  (Available >50% ~Tide)
*Vulpine Mask             Rapiers               Assailant Guise (Available >75% ~Tide)

Wave determined by: 30% Tidal Surge ability stats, +30% for each current Tidal Surge movement bonus stack level.)

Unique Heavy Attack: "Hook Hand,"
Commands Arm-Tentacles to automatically pull nearby enemies to you (prone).
(Range equal to Undertow "Grab" Tentacles.)


Secondary Fire: Consume 50% Tide to throw a Trident that heals you on hit.
200 Puncture base Damage. Briefly pins enemies to the ground (prone) for 3s.

Spoiler

However, the numeric value of Power Strength and  determine the total actual.)
Damage =  200 Puncture *X*Y
(Power Strength#) = X
(%Tide# x 0.001) = Y
Health = Damage Dealt x (0.01% to 0.05% ~Tide) + (25 to 50 ~Tide)
(Throw similar to Javlok)
(Pinning similar to one of Nezha's "Divine Spears.")
If killed on strike, can pin enemies to walls. (Similar to Boltor.)

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Undertow (PIRATE MODE)
Undertow remains as you go beneath it.
You may now pan the camera down beneath, "THE SHALLOWS," to enter, "THE DEEP."

Hold-To-Cast:  Blink to target (or nearest) active Whirlpool.

Spoiler

Movement within THE DEEP:
"Combine Archwing's movement with Ecco: The DolphinTM..." -says Absolute Mad man.
Very light momentum, way more, "swimmy." (No Archwing is used in this state, just it's movement.)
Perform basic strikes and slap attacks (a.k.a. archmelee) with Tentacle arms present as, "The Thing From THE DEEP."

Abilities are now different:
Cast Tempest Barrage to command The Kraken to, "crush," all enemies in it's grasp:
         Surge 250 Viral/1000 Impact @ 40% to 90% Status Chance (~Tide) once, to all enemies. (+50% Energy cost; 4s cooldown.)

Cast Tidal Surge to Blink to target area within, "THE DEEP,"
or (nearest enemy dealing it's Damage as Magnetic,)
or aim up to Blink to, "THE SHALLOWS." 
(This move is a little like Blink,
a little like Ash's, "Teleport,"
a little like Ecco the Dolphin's dash move..)
-50% Energy cost to cast.

HOLD-TO-CAST Undertow creates an 'enemy vacuum',
pulling to you all enemies within, "THE DEEP," not currently held by The Kraken.

Leaving, "THE DEEP," will occur from:
     -Tap-To-Cast Undertow to exit at the nearest Undertow (priority)
       or Whirlpool for No (0) Energy cost.
     -Automatically exit, "THE DEEP," (either into, "THE SHALLOWS," or entirely,)
      upon running out of either Energy or Tide, or upon deactivation of PIRATE MODE.
     -Nullifier fields coming in contact with Undertow,
       or a single Whirlpool presently serving as the only, "portal," to, "THE DEEP." 

 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Special Thanks To:

Spoiler

NuclearCoffeePot (for Tide and several other concepts.)
Tsukoyomi_GR (for "Rising Depths" and inspiration for Trident.)
(NSW)SantCruz (for pushing me to make Hydroid more Lethal!)
Hadammants
(NSW)DEADSHOT500
Klaleara (for the Ship firing cannons and punchthrough to Tempest Barrage)
keikogi (for formatting advice)
TheGodofWiFi (for generally disagreeing, but in an instructive way)

and MANY many others for their vital feedback and discussion! 

Thanks to all of the members of the forums and players through the years, and their spectacular imaginations.
Ideas are ultimately my take on the suggestions of other players and forum members over a series of months and threads.
If you want credit for an idea that you feel was yours that I haven't cited, Let me know.
The idea to keep track of who mentioned what came to far later than I wish it did. 

[AzulMage]

2 hours ago, Graive said:

Adding your ideas on his 2 and 3 to the post, they just make sense and fit the theme of this post perfectly.

Ideally I'd make his 2 a toggle-able ability to give it more maneuverability, but I feel like that would likely warrant an animation change (which would be more time consuming to implement). I feel like most changes to his 4 would also need animation changes, and it's the only reason I'm not adding them above.

I suppose so. I just think in it's current state the CC isn't the greatest. An idea that has been thrown around on other Hydroid threads that I think is great and would require little effort on DE's part would be the Kraken head staying out during the ability. Then, if Hydroid and/or teammates shoot the head, all enemies caught take extra damage based off damage done to the head. Would also be cool if tentacles that don't currently have an enemy grabbed could block bullets shot by enemies as an added defense measure

[NuclearCoffeePot]

20 hours ago, Graive said:

I'm not crazy about tagging enemies since Ash's tagging mechanic feels so clunky already, but I understand your goal was to reduce the rng nature of the ability here. I've got no good suggestions 😕

Heres an idea I poested for his 1- On initial cast The first wave homes in on enemies within the radius and they gradually spread their fire over the duration- this means it will initially be focused where all the enemies are but spread out over time so as not to let enemies walk through unscathed

[Graive]

5 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

I know that feeling.
Spent nearly 120 hours on a Hydroid rework, barely anybody read it. lol

I read your rework before posting and thought the concepts were good. I do think it may be too ambitious since DE has a lot on their plate, but if they ever dedicated a staff member to an actual rework, I could see it being very fun. Like you said earlier, we all have our ways to go about it.

4 hours ago, kapn655321 said:

***Clarifying, this thread is about OP's ideas, and I don't want to jack the topic

I will say, I really appreciate your thoughtfulness and depth of detail on everything you've been posting. It's not only inspiring, but extremely appreciated.

[Graive]

3 hours ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

Heres an idea I poested for his 1- On initial cast The first wave homes in on enemies within the radius and they gradually spread their fire over the duration- this means it will initially be focused where all the enemies are but spread out over time so as not to let enemies walk through unscathed

I like the idea, but feel just increasing the general blast radius would have the same effect, especially if the number of barrages is increased.  If your suggestion is adding more that I'm just not seeing please let me know so I can consider and try incorporating it.

[NuclearCoffeePot]

Just now, Graive said:

I like the idea, but feel just increasing the general blast radius would have the same effect, especially if the number of barrages is increased.  If your suggestion is adding more that I'm just not seeing please let me know so I can consider and try incorporating it.

I have a post about hydroid, I changed a lot from the original concept thanks to community feedback and helped kapn create his concept- heres the link

 

My orignial Idea was this however-

Passive-Tide meter- Through generating "Tide" Hydroids abilities would gain increased range on cast- Tide can be gained from undertow and killing enemies effected by abilities

1-Cast as you would currently- on initial cast the first wave of missiles divide themselves amoungst enemies in range- Corrosive projection would be made innate with it starting at a low armor reduction- ramping up for repeated hits

Augment- On cast Hydroid would create a zone around himself that dropped it;s own missiles

2-Riptide-Begin a drain that consumes available tide meter in place of energy when possible- Transform into a watery state- Gain movement and attack speed-Attacks pass through you- generate tide meter on enemy kills- whirlpool beneath feet drags enemies closer

3-Undertow- Big change- Undertow uses a mechanic similar to how railjack creates the illusion that all the tile's are in one place- in reality if you didn't know all the ship interiors have their own skybox while the windows act as a portal you can see through and launcher tp's you etc

-Undertow acts like a portal into an underwater zone- Enemies who fall in are suspended in the water and take consistent dps- 1 projectiles can fall in- Hydroid can enter or exit the zone by pressing shift while walking over undertow(it is no longer channel and while you are placed in automatically you can leave and the puddle will remain- Starts as a base cost- While inside the puddle hydroid begins a drain effect that leeches energy for every enemy inside- drain is capped after 5 enemies- For every enemy in undertow Hydroid also passively generates more tide in his meter

4-Kraken-TEntacles are changed- they now grab an enemy and hold them in place, crushing them slowly dealing impact and viral dps- tentacles also are summoned in the underwater zone(nicknamed The Deep)- and excecute enemies inside when their health drops below 15% 

[Graive]

6 hours ago, (NSW)SantCruz said:

I suppose so. I just think in it's current state the CC isn't the greatest. An idea that has been thrown around on other Hydroid threads that I think is great and would require little effort on DE's part would be the Kraken head staying out during the ability. Then, if Hydroid and/or teammates shoot the head, all enemies caught take extra damage based off damage done to the head. Would also be cool if tentacles that don't currently have an enemy grabbed could block bullets shot by enemies as an added defense measure

I thought long and hard about your post. I really like your ideas of gaining more utility from his 4, especially since it's his ultimate and should probably add more to his kit. I think you're right in terms of ease of implementation, it would essentially be a copy pasta of Octavia's skill, but for allies. I do think there may be a better method though, since 1. allies can already shoot into his puddle and they hardly do that, it just slows game play too much. I want to decrease the redundancy of skills 2. creating the target mechanism of the Kraken's head for players to shoot still requires additional animation and AI code alteration, and 3. it seems like the damage would only be transferred to grabbed enemies.

I'm adding another idea based on your suggestion to the post above. I'm changing my suggested 1 augment to blast damage (still debating this) as it's only major debuff is to ferrite armor, and it wouldn't interfere with toxin/viral/corrosive builds. Besides, blast = ice + fire, eh eh. My proposed passive gains additional damage to knockdowned or ragdolled enemies so it works. Why does all this matter? Because making each tentacle strike increase enemy susceptibility to blast damage received would be highly beneficial for Hydroid and party members shooting at these enemies (and it would require 0 altering of animations or AI). The tentacles wouldn't need to grab an enemy to implement this blast damage susceptibility, only strike them (thereby making some bosses susceptible as well). This also helped solve another problem i was having, figuring out the type of damage inflicted when the ability finishes.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Graive
Added reasoning.

[kapn655321]

Wanted to say, if you notice that @NuclearCoffeePot and my rework
have the same name of, "Tide," It's because they came up with it. =)

The version included in my list is altered for the context of the whole
build, and in some ways is not entirely true to the spirit of the original.
It's mostly in tact, but the ways it's implemented doesn't do it the
same justice as it's origin when considering the whole build.
..My version might have taken it too far, essentially. lol

Though, taking Hydroid to his farthest natural extent was sort of the
plan there.. and was done in order to find room for so many other
people's visions of what they'd like, and imbue him with all of them.
Well, where possible. The intent and the execution is debatable.
To really see how Tide was intended, be sure to check with it's
creator!

[Jhura]

I really love seeing all of these ideas for Hydroid. Hopefully DE sees this and gives it some thought and helps out our favorite water boi. 

[Graive]

1 hour ago, kapn655321 said:

To really see how Tide was intended, be sure to check with it's
creator!

Yea, I appreciate him posting here as well.

1 hour ago, NuclearCoffeePot said:

My orignial Idea was this however-

Passive-Tide meter- Through generating "Tide" Hydroids abilities would gain increased range on cast- Tide can be gained from undertow and killing enemies effected by abilities

1-Cast as you would currently- on initial cast the first wave of missiles divide themselves amoungst enemies in range- Corrosive projection would be made innate with it starting at a low armor reduction- ramping up for repeated hits

Augment- On cast Hydroid would create a zone around himself that dropped it;s own missiles

2-Riptide-Begin a drain that consumes available tide meter in place of energy when possible- Transform into a watery state- Gain movement and attack speed-Attacks pass through you- generate tide meter on enemy kills- whirlpool beneath feet drags enemies closer

3-Undertow- Big change- Undertow uses a mechanic similar to how railjack creates the illusion that all the tile's are in one place- in reality if you didn't know all the ship interiors have their own skybox while the windows act as a portal you can see through and launcher tp's you etc

-Undertow acts like a portal into an underwater zone- Enemies who fall in are suspended in the water and take consistent dps- 1 projectiles can fall in- Hydroid can enter or exit the zone by pressing shift while walking over undertow(it is no longer channel and while you are placed in automatically you can leave and the puddle will remain- Starts as a base cost- While inside the puddle hydroid begins a drain effect that leeches energy for every enemy inside- drain is capped after 5 enemies- For every enemy in undertow Hydroid also passively generates more tide in his meter

4-Kraken-TEntacles are changed- they now grab an enemy and hold them in place, crushing them slowly dealing impact and viral dps- tentacles also are summoned in the underwater zone(nicknamed The Deep)- and excecute enemies inside when their health drops below 15% 

Tide meter is an interesting concept to be sure. Like I'd told @kapn655321, if they ever dedicated a staff member to an actual rework, I could see it being very fun. Additionally, I think I came accross your post way back when, maybe on reddit? I remember thinking the inner undertow skybox, and being able to enter and exit as a very unique, and fun idea. The fact that it works correctly with railjack is just icing on the cake.

[Graive]

13 hours ago, Graive said:

I thought long and hard about your post. I really like your ideas of gaining more utility from his 4, especially since it's his ultimate and should probably add more to his kit. I think you're right in terms of ease of implementation, it would essentially be a copy pasta of Octavia's skill, but for allies. I do think there may be a better method though, since 1. allies can already shoot into his puddle and they hardly do that, it just slows game play too much. I want to decrease the redundancy of skills 2. creating the target mechanism of the Kraken's head for players to shoot still requires additional animation and AI code alteration, and 3. it seems like the damage would only be transferred to grabbed enemies.

I'm adding another idea based on your suggestion to the post above. I'm changing my suggested 1 augment to blast damage (still debating this) as it's only major debuff is to ferrite armor, and it wouldn't interfere with toxin/viral/corrosive builds. Besides, blast = ice + fire, eh eh. My proposed passive gains additional damage to knockdowned or ragdolled enemies so it works. Why does all this matter? Because making each tentacle strike increase enemy susceptibility to blast damage received would be highly beneficial for Hydroid and party members shooting at these enemies (and it would require 0 altering of animations or AI). The tentacles wouldn't need to grab an enemy to implement this blast damage susceptibility, only strike them (thereby making some bosses susceptible as well). This also helped solve another problem i was having, figuring out the type of damage inflicted when the ability finishes.

Weird quoting myself but I thought more on this. I think just making damage of the tentacles scale with time rather than giving a susceptibility boost is better.  This way it actually hurts status immune enemies as well. Like my initial susceptibility idea, it also wouldn't require an icon being needed for any kind of buff.

Edited December 30, 2019 by Graive

[AzulMage]

2 hours ago, Graive said:

Weird quoting myself but I thought more on this. I think just making damage of the tentacles scale with time rather than giving a susceptibility boost is better.  This way it actually hurts status immune enemies as well. Like my initial susceptibility idea, it also wouldn't require an icon being needed for any kind of buff.

True. It seems like a good change. I think a lot of people are worried that all reworks will simply consist of damage buffs now which is to some extent needed. Hydroid's current issue is that he is a CC frame (therefore damage was never his reason for being) that is inconsistent in his ability to CC since enemies can literally walk through his 1 and 4 without getting caught in it and since his current 3 has no lure effect, they won't get caught in that too. Basically inconsistent RNG based CC in a game that already discourages good CC in favor of killing.

[Graive]

Just adding this comment to highlight my thought process for anyone wanting more info. I code dashboards for a living, so when I came up with these ideas I thought, "what would be easy for me to do?". The general rules I've tried following are:

1. Re-use current code for skills, that require no visual changes. This limits work needed to implement my proposed changes.
2. If taking from another warframe's skillset for an ability, try and limit it to a single warframe (this avoids new skills being overpowered since it would be very easy to pull only the best skills from several warframes). This also avoids coders having to look at multiple bits of code that are likely written in different programming styles. My proposed 3rd skill wound up breaking this rule, but I felt incorporating Ivara's noise arrow is short and easy enough to do without being overpowered.
3. Changes need to focus on more consistent crowd control, increased survivability, or increased damage, but should introduce only 1 new icon. Again, this limits work needed while also addressing Hydroid's biggest issues. 

As far as I can tell from my proposed skills:

1- His 1 is strictly changes in numbers in the code. Changes to the augment are a copy paste of another warframe's mod and a change to the element.
2- His 2 is changes to numbers and a stat to copied Ironclad Charge code. I'm completely unsure how much work adding maneuverability would be, so I'm personally ok with it being cut. A new icon would need to be added to display current damage resistance. I received a lot of proposals requesting a copy paste of Wukong's Cloud Walker ability, but if I had to choose between the two I'd prefer damage resistance for added survivability.
3- His 3...ooh boy. His 3 would require setting the target from the copied noise arrow code to the puddle, I'm not entirely sure how easy that would be to implement. Adding the damage absorption portion would only require changes to numbers and adding a stat (health regen) to Harrow's Covenant ability, luckily health regen is also a part of Harrow's general skill set.  Additionally, Harrow's icons for covenant are generic enough to be reused so it's easier to implement than I initially thought. It's my hope that my proposed changes to his augment would make him teralyst hunt viable, but I'm unsure how useful a critical damage buff vs buffs currently available are.
4- His 4 is strictly changes in numbers in the code. I'm unsure how much work would be needed to make a burst of damage at the end of the skill, but I presume it would be a copy paste of the beginning of the ability with changed damage type. I'm proposing time scaled damage over a new mechanic like shooting the kraken head adding damage to the tentacles because it would require less programming and wouldn't need a new icon. I've also proposed a burst of true damage so the skill hurts status immune enemies.