0_The_F00l Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 (edited) Hey guys , i spent the weekend trying out all the other weapons after the update (good thing you get 80% resources back now), I also made a separate post about the effect of the armor changes on the enemies and the effective TTK - most weapons are now good with the exception of cryophon. i used to run Vidar Cryophon on pilot and vidar carcinnox on sides before. Mostly cause it was easier to hit with AoE and the crits could one shot some of the fighters AT CLOSE RANGE! which means i had to actually let them come closer or move to them. I understand DEs intention was to bring all weapons to equal levels of use, but they have again been overzealous with their nerf for popular things and missed the mark in my opinion. The Zetki Cryophon especially is practically useless now (max 4 shots before cool down which might not even kill a fighter), The Vidar Cryophon is kinda at an acceptable level (only if you get damage + 50% bonus) though it is still less effective than the other weapons and its range falloff is not noticeably better. It does not even have any significantly beneficial status like otehr weapons almost all of which have the plasma status atleast, I haven't even touched any lavan ones, so i cannot comment on those. The Zetki Pulsar and photor by far are amazing now , so much so that i might not replace my current zetki photor side turrets even if the cryophon is buffed back to original values. I know DE is sometimes too stubborn with reversing nerfs , but i feel even if they dont double the damage again , the least that should be done is half the heat accretion (a fifty percent increase in fire rate or reload speed would also help) The cryophon DPS is just terrible at the moment ,If they dont want it to be the best and most used at least dont make it the worst and least used. Has your observations been any different? Edited January 12, 2020 by 0_The_F00l 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diangelius Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Sometimes I feel DE was pretty conflict. They want RJ guns to be strong on their own and yet they nerfed Cryophon to much more inferior tier because they did not want it to one-hit-kill... I don't know around what point they balanced the gun... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skaleek Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Cryo is definitely bottom of the barrel right now. But DE took very hamfisted approach to balance on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genitive Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Reducing heat buildup would be a welcome change. Cryophon damage is pretty ok, but overheating makes it very annoying to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackHargreav Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 The only buff that these weapons "need" is a lower heat up rate. Don't forget that these weapons already do a lot of damage and they shoot pretty big projectiles. All of these just make the weapon too convinient to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skaleek Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 5 minutes ago, JackHargreav said: The only buff that these weapons "need" is a lower heat up rate. I'm okay with them having super high heat costs for super high damage. High risk high reward. I prefer weapon diversity, if you keep it at sub par damage and lower its heat accretion its just another turret that we have now. At least with high damage high heat, it has an identity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 18 minutes ago, Skaleek said: I'm okay with them having super high heat costs for super high damage. High risk high reward. I prefer weapon diversity, if you keep it at sub par damage and lower its heat accretion its just another turret that we have now. At least with high damage high heat, it has an identity. What would be the risk though? And if you prefer diversity, shouldnt it stay as it is or with a slight little damage buff? If it comes back as a 1-hit wonder gun it will be the only used cannon again. It is better if they are all equal as they are now, that brings real diversity since everything is viable and there is no real king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skaleek Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 Just now, SneakyErvin said: What would be the risk though? And if you prefer diversity, shouldnt it stay as it is or with a slight little damage buff? If it comes back as a 1-hit wonder gun it will be the only used cannon again. It is better if they are all equal as they are now, that brings real diversity since everything is viable and there is no real king. You miss and you expend 25% of your heat. If its a 1 hit on crit with slow fire rate, then its not better than all the other cannons. Right now i can kill many more fighters in the same clip with a zetki pulsar than i can a cryophon. Because all the zetki turrets got heat accretion buffs except the cryophon, i think the cryophon was nerfed by virtue of not recieving the same buff. The 60% damage nerf on top of it was just over the top. Revert the damage, leave the heat. If its the most used weapon after that, tune more gracefully. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
0_The_F00l Posted January 12, 2020 Author Share Posted January 12, 2020 Just now, SneakyErvin said: What would be the risk though? And if you prefer diversity, shouldnt it stay as it is or with a slight little damage buff? If it comes back as a 1-hit wonder gun it will be the only used cannon again. It is better if they are all equal as they are now, that brings real diversity since everything is viable and there is no real king. The Problem is that they are not equal right now. Cryophon is extremely poor. 1 hit kills are fine if there is an acceptable kill rate, we already have weapons like that in the rest of the game , namely the snipers, they still have an identity and are relatively well balanced for their role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)TheRosenBones Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 I loved the close range, held shot tactic of using the cryos. If they made damage falloff the nerf instead of raw damage, it could still be an amazing gunner turret for close range combat, or picking off enemies hanging out behind the pilots view. obvioisly I haven’t tested them yet, on Xbox, but from what I’m reading it seems like the nerf was on the wrong stat to “balance” the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 29 minutes ago, Skaleek said: You miss and you expend 25% of your heat. If its a 1 hit on crit with slow fire rate, then its not better than all the other cannons. Right now i can kill many more fighters in the same clip with a zetki pulsar than i can a cryophon. Because all the zetki turrets got heat accretion buffs except the cryophon, i think the cryophon was nerfed by virtue of not recieving the same buff. The 60% damage nerf on top of it was just over the top. Revert the damage, leave the heat. If its the most used weapon after that, tune more gracefully. They need to improve the damage of it because I dont think they balanced it properly with the new EHP. I do however not think they will ever make it a guaranteed 1HK weapon since it seemed kinda obvious that they didnt want that. A 1HK on crit yeah, that would work since crits should hit hard and have an impact. I guess the best they can do in the end is reduce the heat cost and up the damage to a point where 2 shots within the right distance and with the right avionics would kill the smaller ships and where a crit would 1HK them. Reverting the damage to the previous stat wont happen, because they reduced it just because it would 1HK everything with the new EHP changes in play and the old damage number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skaleek Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said: They need to improve the damage of it because I dont think they balanced it properly with the new EHP. I do however not think they will ever make it a guaranteed 1HK weapon since it seemed kinda obvious that they didnt want that. A 1HK on crit yeah, that would work since crits should hit hard and have an impact. I guess the best they can do in the end is reduce the heat cost and up the damage to a point where 2 shots within the right distance and with the right avionics would kill the smaller ships and where a crit would 1HK them. Reverting the damage to the previous stat wont happen, because they reduced it just because it would 1HK everything with the new EHP changes in play and the old damage number. Eh, whatever they do, hopefully it retains it's identity. Time will tell. Right now i don't see many people running them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted January 12, 2020 Share Posted January 12, 2020 25 minutes ago, Skaleek said: Eh, whatever they do, hopefully it retains it's identity. Time will tell. Right now i don't see many people running them. Most groups I've been in since patch use photor, carci or apoc and things are clearing much faster now without people pigeoning into a cryo+munition playstyle. Photor is just insane now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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