Basmu is awful please buff

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

5 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

A mod that does +15% DPS doesn't do anything... Compared to Serration that does +165% DPS.

The crit stats are low, mods don't do much to benefit them. Learn to do math, seriously.

And you wonder why I tell you to learn to do math.  Look, weapons have limited slots, and stacking mods that increase the same stat have diminishing returns.  Crit mods multiply each others' returns, and.. shockingly, you put serration on any primary that isn't shotgun/sniper, so comparing crit mods to it to determine their usefulness is either dishonest or stupid since they use different slots and are a given anyway.

Both crit primaries and non crit primaries are going to be running Serration/Split Chamber and at least two 90% elemental mods or one 165% elemental and one 90% elemental, assuming they're not status weapons.  That's four slots used.  Usually you'll get Vile Acceleration in a fifth, possibly Heavy Caliber in a sixth if the weapon doesn't get too inaccurate with it or you don't care much about aiming the weapon.  The remaining slots can be used most optimally for something like Vigilante Armaments and a third elemental mod on a non-crit weapon.

For the non crit, 60% multishot is a diminishing return after you've already added Split Chamber.  You've already got 1.9x multishot so raising that to 2.5x multishot is only a ~31.5% damage increase in that slot.  For the elemental mods, you're going from 280% or 355% combined damage with the elemental mods, to 370% or 445% respectively, this is a ~32% or ~25% damage increase respectively.  Since you mention +165% as if it were most desirable, you just got only 25% damage increase out of that third element since you already used 165% elemental on either a crit or non crit weapon.

Now, the bonus damage due to Armaments and another elemental is at most 1.315 x 1.25 damage, which is ~1.64x damage in two slots.  If you didn't use that 165% elemental it would be 1.32 x 1.315 for a total of ~1.736x damage in two slots.  Comparatively, the change in crit stats from two crit mods in those slots goes from 10%/2.0 (10% average damage increase due to crit) to 25%/4.4 (85% damage increase due to crit).  Since either crit or non crit build will have 10%/2.0, I'll divide 1.85 by 1.1 to get ~1.68x damage in two slots due to crit mods.

Ermagerhd, 1.68x is bigger than 1.64x.  In the event that for whatever reason you used three 90% and Armaments, while 1.736x is slightly larger, even one headshot out of 20 shots skews that back the other way because of crit headshots getting quadruple damage and non-crit headshots only getting double damage.

If you didn't use Heavy Caliber that leaves more slots that have to be taken by elements or crit, meaning the comparison is even more sharply in favor of crit due to diminishing returns on even more elemental stacking.

So, don't talk back to your mathematical betters.  10%/2.0 on a primary is crit viable.

[SpringRocker]

2 hours ago, Vitalis_Inamorta said:

In the event that for whatever reason you used three 90% and Armaments, while 1.736x is slightly larger, even one headshot out of 20 shots skews that back the other way because of crit headshots getting quadruple damage and non-crit headshots only getting double damage.

You're basing your math on critting headshots.

While I'll admit you're going to be making headshots a lot, headshots aren't auto crits.

Don't try to talk down to people that actually understand the mechanics. Also your math is wrong, try using:

• MAG / ( MAG / AtkSpd + Reload ) * ((( CritMulti - 1 ) * CritRate ) + 1 ) * Dmg * Multi * Fac

Also a lot of weapons people use punch through. Just because you in particular don't put punch through on a Basmu doesn't mean it's a crit weapon.

2 hours ago, Vitalis_Inamorta said:

So, don't talk back to your mathematical betters.  10%/2.0 on a primary is crit viable.

You just sound like a pompous idiot at this point. I didn't say that it wasn't viable, I said it's not a crit weapon (as in, you shouldn't slam crit mods on it and expect an impact similar to actual crit weapons).

Edited March 30, 2020 by SpringRocker

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

8 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

You're basing your math on critting headshots.

I'm basing my math on hitting one head out of 20 shots.  Out of those, with 25% crit chance, one in 80 shots will be a crit headshot, and it will more than make up for the loss on the build that you don't use anyway.  If you're not doing that, you're not even sort-of trying.

As for the build you actually use, crit is doing more damage even on 100% bodyshots.

 

8 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

While I'll admit you're going to be making headshots a lot, headshots aren't auto crits.

Never said or implied they were.

8 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

Don't try to talk down to people that actually understand the mechanics.

You clearly don't, so according to you it's fine.

8 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

Also your math is wrong

No, it isn't.  Don't pretend that you were able to follow it, or even tried, when you actually resorted to the wiki to find an unrelated and irrelevant equation.

8 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

Also a lot of weapons people use punch through.

Usually Primed Shred, and that would replace Vile Acceleration typically.

8 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

You just sound like a pompous idiot at this point. I didn't say that it wasn't viable, I said it's not a crit weapon

Whereas you're actually a pompous idiot.  See:  Dunning Kruger effect.

I didn't say it was merely crit viable, I said it was superior when built for crit.  That goes for 10%/2.0 rifle primaries.  It goes even moreso for Basmu where you're comically wrong about it not being a crit weapon.

8 hours ago, SpringRocker said:

you shouldn't slam crit mods on it and expect an impact similar to actual crit weapons

As I've shown, you wouldn't know what actual crit weapons are.

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

You tried to post a total DPS for firearms equation.  It's irrelevant because what I did was to extrapolate per-slot damage modifiers for the usual mods and make comparisons based on those.  It's also technically wrong because it doesn't account for headshots --or any other weak point modifier-- at all.

The wiki equation you pulled CAN be used to do roughly the same comparison, but it becomes a lot more complicated due to having to do the entire calculation again for every permutation instead of just once for each mod or mod set.  Try it if you want, you'll end up with the same results I already told you.

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

There ARE arguments for why stats as low as 10%/2.0 rifle primaries shouldn't be considered crit weapons.  Heck I made one myself about the Opticor with the stats it had at release (15%/2.0 or something).  The argument, though, isn't that it does the same or more damage with a non-crit build, but rather that because the Opticor fired so slowly, the irregularity of the damage you'd get from one shot to the next with that relatively low crit chance made it a pain to use.  The same argument doesn't work for weapons that are firing 12 shots per second without even modifying their fire rate.  Even with very slow weapons it's more a matter of taste than anything else for most people.

Some people hate irregularity because they feel like RNGesus is persecuting them, where certain other people don't actually care about the damage from shot to shot, straight up remove crit chance mods in favor of stacking more crit damage, and are hovering their finger over the screenshot key while playing Banshee, just waiting to collect a screenshot of them hitting the integer cap on a double crit headshot on a triple-stacked sonar weakpoint on some poor unsuspecting butcher.

[SpringRocker]

40 minutes ago, Vitalis_Inamorta said:

You tried to post a total DPS for firearms equation.  It's irrelevant because what I did was to extrapolate per-slot damage modifiers for the usual mods and make comparisons based on those.  It's also technically wrong because it doesn't account for headshots --or any other weak point modifier-- at all.

Just putting on one primed bane mod is better than your 2 crit mods:

• Bane +55% damage
• Vital Strike and Point strike +36% damage.

Less mod slots and more damage. Also people usually use punch through (there's a reason behind it).

 

44 minutes ago, Vitalis_Inamorta said:

The wiki equation you pulled CAN be used to do roughly the same comparison

Wasn't from the wiki, did the math myself a while ago.

 

1 hour ago, Vitalis_Inamorta said:

Whereas you're actually a pompous idiot.  See:  Dunning Kruger effect.

I didn't say it was merely crit viable, I said it was superior when built for crit.

Once again, one mod doing +55% damage from it's own modifier is more than you slapping on 2 mods that do +36% damage.

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

3 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Just putting on one primed bane mod is better than your 2 crit mods:

• Bane +55% damage
• Vital Strike and Point strike +36% damage.

Vital Sense and Point Strike conjunctively:  +68% damage.  You still don't understand the basics of crit.  BTW, Primed Banes are also better than a second elemental mod by flat DPS calcs, no matter what elemental mod it is.

Even if you were correct, a lot of people don't use bane because they hate having to swap loadouts nearly every mission.

4 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Also people usually use punch through (there's a reason behind it).

And as I already said, when they add punch through it's usually Primed Shred, and it's usually taking up the slot you'd otherwise put a different fire rate increasing mod in.

5 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Wasn't from the wiki, did the math myself a while ago.

That's nice, you still weren't able to or didn't try to follow mine at all.  If you made the equation yourself it should be child's play to use it and list the results of the varying builds, right?  So why aren't you showing your work?  I suspect because you're gradually realizing you were wrong and don't want to admit it.

9 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Once again, one mod doing +55% damage from it's own modifier is more than you slapping on 2 mods that do +36% damage.

Still proving you can't do basic calculations I see.  10%/2.0 by itself is a 10% damage increase due to crit, right?  Well 25%/4.4 is an 85% increase.  If you want to figure out how much that increase is AFTER the gun's base crit stats, you need to do 1.85/1.1 which will give you ~1.68, meaning that your conjunctive increase due to those two crit mods is indeed 68%.

Now, tell me, do you usually use Primed Bane mods?  Even if you do, what normally happens is you ditch Heavy Caliber and put it in that slot.  There are lots of non-mando slots on primary rifles my man.  Serration and Split Chamber are your mandos.  Usually you'll add 2-3 elements and a fire rate or fire rate/punch mod, that's a total of 5-6 mods.  Whatcha gonna put in the 2-3 remaining slots?  You could put Primed Bane AND crit if you have three slots and you actually use Primed Banes unlike what I suspect, which is that you are grasping for straws and don't even use them yourself.

Now, I'm done wasting time on you until you can pony up and show that you've done the math for the conjunction of crit mods, which you have yet to even attempt after how many posts now?  I don't care what equation you use, so long as it's correct I'll be able to follow it just fine, just flipping do it before you open your mouth again.

[SpringRocker]

12 minutes ago, Vitalis_Inamorta said:

Vital Sense and Point Strike conjunctively:  +68% damage.

Well 25%/4.4 is an 85% increase

I was hoping on calling you out for not spotting that.

 

12 minutes ago, Vitalis_Inamorta said:

Even if you were correct, a lot of people don't use bane because they hate having to swap loadouts nearly every mission.

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought we were talking about DPS not preferences.

12 minutes ago, Vitalis_Inamorta said:

Even if you do, what normally happens is you ditch Heavy Caliber and put it in that slot.

Nope, you do both.

 

Regardless, people use punch through for a reason. At that point Banes are better than Vital Strike.

Are you done with your ego trip yet? You talk about being our "Mathematical superior" but refuse to put any mods for punch through on a weapon because it not necessary when we're talking about DPS? Let me spell out that last sentence in case you miss it, you're taking headshot crits into account but not hitting multiple enemies nor reload times or mag size.

Edited March 30, 2020 by SpringRocker

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

2 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Oh, I'm sorry. I thought we were talking about DPS not preferences.

Says the person who mentions punchthrough.  That's a preference that is impossible to quantify.  Yeah, sometimes there are two mobs in a row.  Sometimes there aren't.  Sometimes you're fighting a boss.  Sometimes there's an adv shield lancer or "thick" mob that blocks your punch through anyway.

Also, I see you conveniently ignored the "even if you were correct" part.

4 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

I was hoping on calling you out for not spotting that.

How about you get yourself in proper order before you try to play stupid gotcha games with me?

4 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Nope, you do both.

Inferior choice.  If you care enough to use Banes I have a hard time seeing you simultaneously NOT care enough to aim for headshots at all, which HC gets in the way of for most weapons.

6 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Regardless, people use punch through for a reason.

And that still has nothing whatsoever to do with crit mods because you put it in the fire rate mod slot.... learn to read dammit!  I've said this three times now and you have yet to so much as act like you've read it once.

7 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Are you done with your ego trip yet?

Are you done validating it for me yet?

7 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

You talk about being our "Mathematical superior" but refuse to put any mods for punch through on a weapon

Who are you even arguing with?  Sure isn't me.  I literally said where I'd put punch through.  Three times now.  You have yet to read and respond to it even once.

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

Heck I play Ivara most of the time.  I can't even remember the last time I used a primary that didn't have one of:

A:  Innate punch through.

B:  AoE.

C : Both.

Aside from leveling up weapons for MR exp.

Your imagined person who doesn't use punch through isn't me.

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

20 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Nope, you do both.

Please tell me you normally use both HC and a Primed bane.  Please.  I want to see a unicorn.

Edit:  Do one better, tell me what weapon(s) you do that on, then I'll check your warframe profile to see if you're bullS#&$ting me or not or if that's even reasonable on that weapon.

Edited March 30, 2020 by Vitalis_Inamorta

[SpringRocker]

1 minute ago, Vitalis_Inamorta said:

Says the person who mentions punchthrough.  That's a preference that is impossible to quantify.  Yeah, sometimes there are two mobs in a row.  Sometimes there aren't.  Sometimes you're fighting a boss.

Says that guys who's basing their argument on criting headshots. News flash, doesn't apply to some enemies. Going to make a MOA specific weapon build? No, because that's just as ridiculous.

Guy, even firing around randomly you'll hit multiple enemies.

 

But sure just ignore that because "Any weapons is a crit weapon if you try hard enough, and ignore things like bane".

 

4 minutes ago, Vitalis_Inamorta said:

Heck I play Ivara most of the time.

Good for you? I'm also an Ivara main, whoopee-doo...

You know there's different levels of punch through right? We're talking about damage per second, not damage per second done to single targets.

 

But you didn't even do the "math" on that one.

[SpringRocker]

3 minutes ago, Vitalis_Inamorta said:

Please tell me you normally use both HC and a Primed bane.  Please.  I want to see a unicorn.

For most weapons it's not any harder to hit things, most people do it that way. I'm genuinely confused why you think that's a bad idea... Do you have trouble hitting targets?

Edited March 30, 2020 by SpringRocker

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

Just now, SpringRocker said:

Says that guys who's basing their argument on criting headshots.

Says the guy who failed to understand that that wasn't even my argument, it was literally an example that you'd already provided strictures that excluded.  I was figuratively throwing a pie in your stupid face for comparing the crit mods against Serration.

2 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

Guy, even firing around randomly you'll hit multiple enemies.

Irrelevant.  Learn to read.  Seriously.  Learn.  To.  Read.

3 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

But sure just ignore that because "Any weapons is a crit weapon if you try hard enough, and ignore things like bane".

This is what's known as a straw man fallacy.  It's even two of them in one sentence.  Good job being illogical and not addressing my points.

4 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

You know there's different levels of punch through right? We're talking about damage per second, not damage per second done to single targets.

Learn to read.  Barring that, tell me that you use Metal Auger.  Tell me that you use it on even one current build.  Doesn't count if you don't have Primed Shred though.

5 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

But you didn't even do the "math" on that one.

You're perfectly aware that it's not even possible to do so.  I'm perfectly aware that it's irrelevant to even try for two different reasons.

[Vitalis_Inamorta]

4 minutes ago, SpringRocker said:

For most weapons it's not any harder to hit things, most people do it that way. I'm genuinely confused why you think that's a bad idea... Do you have trouble hitting targets?

Found the person who doesn't actually use HC.  Found the person who's still English-illiterate.  HEADS.  I MENTIONED HEADS you incompetent!  Go back and read it again.

[iHeuksal]

I rather prefer the Kuva Nukor and (which is inferior compared to <-) an Acceltra instead of this mess.

I actually thought that it would have the unique effect of removing damage adaption of sentients (which would have been my to go weapon instead of Shedu, which btw. works flawlessly in synergy with Limbo and Lv 170+ sentients), but the only thing we got is a mediocre life leech on reload weapon, with a useless clinging Nukor-ish spread and another self stagger main fire mode.

Even my Harrow cannot buff this to a good decent damage-level area. Wasted a potato on it.

[shut]

On 2020-03-29 at 4:24 PM, Vitalis_Inamorta said:

After further testing of the beam, something is very wrong with it.

Testing with beam with Hunter Munitions and full Vigilante set, primary fire takes set bonus into account, beam does something wrong with it.  Instead of getting about 1/3 of ticks as crits on the secondary, I'm getting maybe 1/30th or one 50th, and most bizarrely it does orange crits at rather close to the same rate as yellow crits.  Unsurprisingly since it's calculating its crit chance wrong somehow, instead of getting around six procs of Hunter Munitions per magazine, I get about one per six or seven full magazines.  So much for viral HM on the beam with Vigilante Set crits!  Forward unto KritKat!

Nothing glitchy is happening here, the alt fire just has a 2% crit chance.

[Countess_Hapmuhr]

This weapon is definitely underwhelming, it just needs tons of work to be viable at higher levels. Disappointing mastery fodder really.

[ChiefJefe]

It's definitely underwhelming.

The alt+fire is so bad it actually hurts your ability to do damage to anything if you accidentally use it. Main fire is ok, but I'm a fan of burst fire weapons, so having a bit of trigger discipline let's me tolerate the very small magazine size. I threw on a Tainted Magazine which bumped the magazine size up and increased the reload from 0.2 to 0.3, which would seem fine, but in doing that I'm losing DPS.

I'd put it in the MR fodder camp even if they do fix the alt+fire. There are many, many better weapons available.

[Thrymm]

I don't think it needs tons of work, honestly.  I think making it serviceable would be really simple.  The primary fire feels good to use, the fast recharge mechanic feels good, and the arcing secondary, outside of its faults, has a strong alternate potential that has possibilities.

1.  Raise the base damage.  I think this one is obvious.  We're not dealing with numbers and effectiveness that went obsolete when the Bramma was introduced, we're dealing with numbers that went obsolete when the Soma got introduced.  There's no excuse for getting new weapons that have no hope of competing in new content simply because their damage is bad, and right now that's where this is, and it doesn't take a ton of work.  Simply go into excel, change the base damage number to 50 or so(that's my estimate for what it'd take to transform it to current content levels), and see where it lands.

    Further, there seems to be a real trend toward status weapons and bad base damage, similar in concept to how true crit weapons are done.  This is a BAD idea.  Status doesn't multiply damage of a weapon the way crit does, and as such to make it a useful damage source it actually requires significantly more base damage.  Without it you're getting gas/heat/toxin/electric ticks in the teens and low hundreds, which in practice might shred a meso relic run(giggle), but in a sortie or lich or railjack fight the enemies are going to get bored with you, sit down, get a mani/pedi, eat a burger, then proceed to make you burn all your heal restores until you just die.  Status as a damage source requires base damage, it's that simple.

2.  Fix the beam.  It doesn't calculate ammo usage correctly for a beam weapon and the range is too short.  Neither is fixable by modding strategy(magazine additions help the primary, the secondary sucks it down too fast) because the range is so short that percentage additions don't cut it.  Ammo usage is so fast that it's outright punitive.  This is all exacerbated by the pitiful base damage because you don't have the mod slots to spare until that's addressed.  It simply needs the beam mechanics that exist for a reason.

And....that's it.  Putting the numbers in a place that makes the weapon kill enemies that are current at the time of its inception will make it useful and fun.

Edited April 1, 2020 by Thrymm
corrections like grammar used to make

[(PSN)BadassDivay]

On 2020-03-26 at 10:27 PM, NinjaZeku said:

Just sayin', stop shooting before the magazine is empty and you get a much faster recharge.

So, either muster some trigger discipline to keep your DPS up, or enjoy Health draining AoE damage after going all out, I like those options.

Same.

[Aryustailm]

The range on the secondary mode is just disgusting. It's not even a matter of Sinister Reach being unavailable for it; even if it were the range would still be trash. It's basically melee. Except melee's stronger and hits more things.

The aim-assist is basically a fake advantage given you have to have a good chunk of your screen occupied by the target already anyways. You'd think the Sentients of all things could make long range beams.

[Herisen_Version1.0]

Agree, it's ned buffer absoulty.

I dont know why this the Basmu just worth for 3K exp.

[(NSW)Blackoween]

I don't know, with Adarza Kavat, Arcane Avenger, crit damage mods, Serration, and a full set of Vigilante mods, you can deal some pretty ridiculous damage.  Yes, the Kavat and Arcane are inconsistent, but take a look at this for secondary fire:

(basedmg)(baseshotspersecond)(basemultishot)(Vigilante Fervor firerate)(Vigilante armaments multishot)(Serration)=dps (before crits/Rivens/punchthrough/warmup)

(12)(12)(2)(1.45)(1.6)(2.65)=1770.624dps (before crits/Rivens/punchthrough/warmup)

I would consider an average crit chance for this build to be about 70%, before Vigilante modset bonus.  Hammer shot, Vital Sense, and Bladed Rounds give this monster a crit multiplier of 19.2, and that can be increased even further if you are playing Ivara or, since you are already using a Kavat, Tek Collateral, for +100% crit damage.  Keep in mind, too, that this leaves a mod slot free for a Riven(+critdamage +magazine capacity -flightspeed ideally), or if you don't have that, Heavy Caliber (+damage).

Edited April 20, 2020 by (NSW)Blackoween

[reveover]

After fully empties the magazine, basmu will have 2second to change the magazine, and at the same time, it will do 3 blood sucking at the same time. The blood healing damage gradually increases with the wave damage and the range. The first 3 blood healing damage is very low, through MOD:Tainted Mag can increase the RELOAD time so that basmu can do more healing times. If u hav a riven with neg of reload speed,3positive 1neg -39~41% ur basmu can do 10times. 2positive and 1neg of reload speed can do 6~7times. THESE overhealings can cuz amazing damage the more waves it does the higher damage it does.