Exalted Weapons

[CloudATL]

Hello everyone, 

 

Exalted weapons cost a spell and energy, yet i can't think of any frame but Mesa that actually outclasses similar weapons to their exalted. 

Excal needs no proof

Wukong has a tough time lately

Titania has a melee? Lol

Ivara's clearly outclassed by Daikyu (without augment) and outclassed by Lenz or Bramma (with augment cuz headshot requirement). 

Etc. 

I don't have solutions to bring cuz i won't be heard anyway, i just wonder if there's anything going on in the backstage for the upcoming year?

No acolyte mods (hi Khora), Split Flights not on Artemis, no Exilus slot for primary/secondary exalted, no extra stance capacity on melees, no rivens and so on. Not aiming at a busted rework, but exalted weapons are not just random weapons, they cost energy, they need to be stronger/funnier than their counterparts.

 

As of now, exalted weapon frames being my fav overall, i'm slowly stopping the game - others will follow. 

Edited March 31, 2020 by CloudATL

[krc473]

1 hour ago, CloudATL said:

Not aiming at a busted rework, but exalted weapons are not just random weapons, they cost energy, they need to be stronger than their counterparts.

Why would anyone use the other weapons if the exalted are so much better than them? I am pretty sure DE has mentioned this before. The intention is that you have a choice, if one is clearly better than the other you lose the choice.

• Last time I used the exalted weapon’s on your list they were superior to the majority of weapons in their respective classes.

[(PSN)jaggerwanderer]

"cough cough' Sortie Restrictions "cough" 

Why are you using Exaulted Weapon only when you use a frame? Mesa is different because I have never use a secondary weapon that allows me to shoot at a high fire rate, with an auto aim feature, that also does more damage the longer I shoot the thing. Not sure if you want to go back to the old days where we couldn't even mod exaulted weapons. Or do you prefer the pseudo exaluted like khora's Whipclaw?

[janjandark]

i just want u to be aware exilus slots for weapons are still somewhat "new"as far as warframe goes(it took 5 years to fix enemy scaling) and i don't know about u but:

-my ivara's artemis is definetly not outclassed by my daikyu(with riven,and augment)

-wukong HAD the best cc of any melee back when zaw exodias worked with exalted weapons(not sure when or why they "fixed" this but.....)

-excal and baruuk have some of the most broken builds currently for damage so i'm not sure what u are comparing them with

-khora has access to augment and her abilities can multiply damage of her 1 to stupid amounts,if any frame needs more damage on it's 1skill it's atlas and even he's not that bad off

-energy once u are further in the game becomes so easy to get you'll spend most of the time at 50-100% of your max 99.9%of the time,energy pizzas,other warframes(trinity,harrow,nezha,etc),exodia brave,zenurik,broken scepter and I'm sure I'm missing a few ways to keep your energy up

that said i do agree extra capacity on exalted weapons should definitely be a thing.

in conclusion i think wukong is still fine simply cuz there's 2 of his exalted and one of em has a 200% damage bonus and i think the rest are in a pretty good stop currently as i define not busted as on par or a little higher/lower then kuva weapons

[CloudATL]

Il y a 16 heures, krc473 a dit :

Why would anyone use the other weapons if the exalted are so much better than them? I am pretty sure DE has mentioned this before. The intention is that you have a choice, if one is clearly better than the other you lose the choice.

• Last time I used the exalted weapon’s on your list they were superior to the majority of weapons in their respective classes.

I love this idea of a choice, yet casting the spell is expensive (time & energy). Mesa is a pretty quick one so it actually makes sense swapping a lot (i use Vig Swap on her to enjoy this as much as possible). But when playing with Ivara, swapping often from a primary to her bow is clearly impossible. Is there really a choice ?

I don't know everything of the listed above, however i'm pretty confident on artemis after playing like 1.2k hours on Ivara, and i'm sad to say Daikyu is actually more efficient than her 4 without augment. And if you augment her then might as well play Bramma or Lenz - since the latest changes. Not gonna get too technical about it but excalibur is clearly outclassed easily (i mean acolyte mods/no IPS for the CO and i think the more enemies his energy waves hit the least dmg -? not too sure-)

You totally make a point, regarding the use of other weapons but exalted if they were OP. Would you play Volt without his 4 though ? Having an exalted outperformed is like playing without ult for the reasons listed above. On the one hand some frames make use of 4 spells and a primary, on the other hand you have 3 spells and an exalted, that doesn't do better (or creates a new gameplay, that's even better) than the rest of your gear. Also, exalted weapons have specific interactions but they don't make up for it imo (Ivara mouse 3 with 4 activated to cancel casting time, Excal slide attack blind...).

I hope this answered your point, please keep up the feedback that's cool.

Il y a 16 heures, (PS4)jaggerwanderer a dit :

"cough cough' Sortie Restrictions "cough" 

Why are you using Exaulted Weapon only when you use a frame? Mesa is different because I have never use a secondary weapon that allows me to shoot at a high fire rate, with an auto aim feature, that also does more damage the longer I shoot the thing. Not sure if you want to go back to the old days where we couldn't even mod exaulted weapons. Or do you prefer the pseudo exaluted like khora's Whipclaw?

Hi, sorry if it was confusing yet i don't use only exalted weaps on the frames that have them. However when i use them, i'd like to have a really added value, either QoLwise, gameplaywise, or damagewise. Mesa is aside indeed. I like the idea we can mod our exalted, and i don't wish we go back to times when we couldn't. However, today, Khora's pseudo exalted feels balanced in the melee meta, and excal's 4 doesn't.

Again i mostly wanted to know if anything was announced, i don't feel like solutions i come up with will be heard anyway. I don't feel like exalted rivens would be an answer. I'd like exalted weapons to be on the line with their counterparts. Khora is (but it's not exalted), Mesa is, but Excal, Ivara, Titania's melee are not. I'd also like exalted weapons to be given the same improvements (Split Flights on artemis?, acolyte mods maybe ?, exilus mod?, Status/projectile for Ivara?). I feel very restricted in the building of those exalted, for their potential. More versality would be very fun. Split flights with status/proj would have offered Status artemis building, exactly what Cernos received. Imagine more synergy with the exalted and the rest of the gear too ! What i love to run right now is viral brakk + melee. 1 shot with brakk to apply 10 viral stacks and then a melee hit. There would totally be builds where exalted weapons can shine in new scenarios if they had a little update. Another example (there's a lot of ivara in this cuz it's the frame i know best), Daikyu can be played with a slash build, a viral build, a headshot nikana build (amalgam), a gas build (riven -ips) and a classic bow build. In most scenarios it will outdmg the Artemis Bow, and the latter has (faction/elemental mods aside) a single build (augment or not). I hope i exposed properly why i find exalted lagging behind a little recently :)

Il y a 16 heures, janjandark a dit :

i just want u to be aware exilus slots for weapons are still somewhat "new"as far as warframe goes(it took 5 years to fix enemy scaling) and i don't know about u but:

-my ivara's artemis is definetly not outclassed by my daikyu(with riven,and augment)

-wukong HAD the best cc of any melee back when zaw exodias worked with exalted weapons(not sure when or why they "fixed" this but.....)

-excal and baruuk have some of the most broken builds currently for damage so i'm not sure what u are comparing them with

-khora has access to augment and her abilities can multiply damage of her 1 to stupid amounts,if any frame needs more damage on it's 1skill it's atlas and even he's not that bad off

-energy once u are further in the game becomes so easy to get you'll spend most of the time at 50-100% of your max 99.9%of the time,energy pizzas,other warframes(trinity,harrow,nezha,etc),exodia brave,zenurik,broken scepter and I'm sure I'm missing a few ways to keep your energy up

that said i do agree extra capacity on exalted weapons should definitely be a thing.

in conclusion i think wukong is still fine simply cuz there's 2 of his exalted and one of em has a 200% damage bonus and i think the rest are in a pretty good stop currently as i define not busted as on par or a little higher/lower then kuva weapons

Hi ! You're right, if posts like this make things move a little faster then it's a pleasure :)

I run a riven on the daikyu as well, and right now yea artemis on 200% strength deals less damage. If you're interested we can have a round in simulacrum whenever :)

I'm talking about present time, not the stats/interactions exalted once had.

Havn't played too much Baruuk recently, and for excal basically take a kronen, or any melee really. CO without IPS kinda sucks, his crits once modded don't go too high, it's hard to get a nice combo cuz of the range and fact energy waves don't count. Let's also remember all this costs energy and the energy drain has other drawbacks than just its consumption.

Just for the record, pizzas don't work on ivara if your artemis is casted. Zenurik won't work for excal. Ways to keep up the energy are numerous, but it's always a cost that's harder to maintain than ammo (carrier/exilus mods to convert ammo). Also there are quite some missions that ruin energy (nightmare/infested/sorties/corpus guys who take energy...). Overrall, it'll be ok energywise, but i'm expecting from a weapon that requires energy to be at least at line with their counterparts.

Yea i agree with you on Wu also cuz of the rest of his kit. Again i'm not here offering solutions cuz i think i wouldn't be heard and i'm not a pro at balance lol. I want us to enjoy a wider variety of playstyles and keep up in line with the damage of the exalted's similar weaps. Normal weapons have (sometimes) more capacity, exilus, rivens, acolyte... All this allows not only for higher damage (that i don't really care about) but many ways to build and interact with the rest of the gear. We spoke of Daikyu earlier, you can build gas with -ips riv/slash/the amalgam offers a synergy with nikanas/then there's always the classic bow build. Artemis bow, with or without augment, elemental/faction mods aside, has a single build. And yet, if you go with a good riven, split flights and daikyu, 200% power strgth artemis is outclassed, i ran the tests earlier :(. Now if you augment artemis, you're still better off with P. Sure footed and bramma in damage and QoL cuz of the energy the artemis bow takes :(

All in all, i feel like many nice changes have been implemented lately, and i'd love those to be also thought around with some exalted weapons :). The question is, is it just me or there's less and less point in using an exalted over its counterpart for most exalted frames ? Is it normal, knowing it's a spell, with a casting time, that costs energy, and negates the possibility for a 4th ability ? With the example of Ivara, shouldn't i just run another frame with a Daikyu and a 4th spell so i can enjoy 4 spells and not 3?

[krc473]

10 hours ago, CloudATL said:

I don't know everything of the listed above, however i'm pretty confident on artemis after playing like 1.2k hours on Ivara, and i'm sad to say Daikyu is actually more efficient than her 4 without augment.

I have played a lot less of Ivara then you. But I never found this to be the case. My Ivara build was setup to focus on damage of course. But it easily out damaged the Daikyu - the fact you could hit multiple targets meant there really wasn’t any competition at all.

• Admittedly, I haven’t played with either recently, so this could have changed.

I guess I tend to ignore the casting time/cost when considering if exalted weapon’s are worth using. I the scheme of things it tends to be fairly insignificant.

[ShugoWah]

I mean, Excal's Exalted Blade and Baruuk's Desert Wind are massively powerful room blenders, and I don't think I've ever heard someone say Artemis Bow isn't good.

[TheLexiConArtist]

The best comparison to make is to find next-nearest counterpart standard weapon and judge potency between them.

For example:

Ivara's Artemis (non-augment) versus Cernos Prime: 268% potency at base power strength (further reduced to a pathetic 120% thanks to Split Flights only being usable on the latter!)

Mesa's Regulators versus AkSomati Prime: a whopping 625% potency at base power strength, which increases the more Mesa's focus scaling kicks in.

 

It's clear Artemis is suck-fail unless you drop heavy power strength into the mix, compared to Mesa, and yet it's also got the worst augment possible (a literal nerf if you can't hit headshots, and even if you do make the explosions it only scales relevantly thanks to Hunter Munitions) which DE has now decided to use as a scapegoat to kick Ivara further into the gutter by disallowing Split Flights ever on the Artemis Bow - it's really no more of an AOE bow than the Cernos Prime, without the augment, it just has a better base multishot.

Edited April 1, 2020 by TheLexiConArtist

[(XBOX)Onyx Schnee]

So far my hysteria talons have done pretty darn well against anything i throw them at.

 

my newest build actually makes them one of, if not my strongest melee weapon atm.

 

I'm also pretty sure my desert wind is pretty powerful as well, just not as much as my talons.

[Maxim_M_Payne]

^The above guy is who I'm with. Just no. No, no, no, and more no. DE has buggered up enough of what made melee fun during the past 1.3 years in their haphazard forcing in of 3.0 mechanics, and Exalted Melee weapons are still one of the few things that remain satisfying about close combat; despite how the devs have butchered Stance combos with movement-lock from the obligatory arrow keys, and (irritatingly) removed the override of ranged weapons while Exalteds are channeled, which kinda ruins the whole Wolverine-like rampage that makes being Valkyr/Excal/Wukong fun.

Even then, I patiently hold out for them to restore Hysteria to its former glory, but in terms of raw damage, it, and every other Exalted melee, remain capable of killing hordes of foes. The problem is that you're not utilizing builds that cater to the strongest damage type of those Exalteds, or that you aren't building for their critical and/or status focus; what works on Wukong is not the same for Excalibur and that's what makes them fun. Or at least made them fun, prior to Buried Debts and Old Blood making melee controls and mechanics into a hot, steaming mess.

Don't you DARE suggest, for even one moment, that they take them out of the game, OP. Exalteds are currently the only fun bit of melee remaining. Stances are truncated, VFX are painfully over-done and cause eye fatigue, Combos lock your movement because of whatever genius decided to make arrow keys part of their input, and heavy attacks and finishers are best left undiscussed because DEAR GOD are they clunky now. 

Exalted weapons are the single thing that still makes me feel like my melee 'Frames matter. And you have the brilliant idea to RIP OUT THE ABILITY THAT SOLD ME ON THOSE WARFRAMES, AND THAT MADE THEM FUN IN THE FIRST PLACE?

There aren't enough languages on earth or words in the world to articulate this stronger: 

HELL. NO.