Excalibur rework suggestions

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

On 2020-04-22 at 11:01 PM, VieuxPappy said:

3)Radial Javelin : Remove completely the current effect and replaces it with "spawn javelins/swords swirling around excalibur" (number spawned scales off of ability STR). Each sword swirling around gives a % of damage reduction to excalibur but whenever an enemy enters a certain radius around excalibur, one of the swirling swords flies off and impales the enemy (maximum one sword per second is shot at enemies). Shot swords have punchthrough and produce shrapnels each time an enemy is hit (in a cone, shotgun-like, effect so enemies behind get hurt by the cone of effect) and those shrapnels cone-of-effect have a chance to induce bleed procs on top of slash damage. Enemies that manage to get in melee range (or when exca goes in melee range of an enemy) are damaged and stunned, each second, by the swirling swords (the more swords swirling, the more damage they receive). 
Rationale :  Exca SEVERELY needs a reliable way to mitigate damage. He's a melee frame yet he has NO active way to obtain tankyness. This would fix this issue while giving it a certain twist different than other frames with similar abilities.

Big fat no to a boring recycled damage reduction ability that is in no way "a different twist" 

Umbra doesn't need to be more tanky

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

55 minutes ago, VieuxPappy said:

All well designed frames have a way to passively make them tanky with a % of damage reduction,

Not necessarily 

You can have a great warframe without giving him boring damage reduction powers...

Example is Volt, Chroma, Harrow, garuda...

Remember i'm not against defensive abilities like volt's shield.

I'm against a set it and forget it 90% damage reduction ability that makes the warframe extremely powerful to the point of being absurd.

It's kind of sad that all you could think of for a replacement for excalibur's radial javelin..is a copy paste desolate hands that looks weaker 

 

Excalibur lacks any sort of versatility...he's a number 4 warframe ...you play him for his 4 and occasionally 2 

His theme is supposed to imply that he's the master of all forms of swords fighting and fencing 

Yet ge only uses one type of sword for his ultimate ability 

 

[VieuxPappy]

57 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Big fat no to a boring recycled damage reduction ability that is in no way "a different twist" 

Umbra doesn't need to be more tanky

He doesn't need to be more tanky considering he's a melee/sword frame yet has no active way to mitigate damage? Mesa, a range themed frame, is tankier. 
Sure bud.

Also, this is a excalibur discussion, this means we're not only talking about umbra but vanilla exca and exca prime. 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

1 hour ago, VieuxPappy said:

He doesn't need to be more tanky considering he's a melee/sword frame yet has no active way to mitigate damage? Mesa, a range themed frame, is tankier. 
Sure bud.

Also, this is a excalibur discussion, this means we're not only talking about umbra but vanilla exca and exca prime. 

Why would he need to mitigate damage?

He has the power to blind enemies from 25 meters at base 

Become invincible when using slash dash

And umbra is already very tanky with umbral mods

 

If you want excalibur to have a defensive ability, at least don't make it another boring recycled ability that's been done a million times 

 

Don't compare mesa to excalibur...mesa's kit is far worse than him

I said excalibur doesn't have versatility...mesa doesn't even know the meaning of the word

[kevoisvevo]

2 hours ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Not necessarily 

You can have a great warframe without giving him boring damage reduction powers...

Example is Volt, Chroma, Harrow, garuda...

Remember i'm not against defensive abilities like volt's shield.

I'm against a set it and forget it 90% damage reduction ability that makes the warframe extremely powerful to the point of being absurd.

It's kind of sad that all you could think of for a replacement for excalibur's radial javelin..is a copy paste desolate hands that looks weaker 

 

Excalibur lacks any sort of versatility...he's a number 4 warframe ...you play him for his 4 and occasionally 2 

His theme is supposed to imply that he's the master of all forms of swords fighting and fencing 

Yet ge only uses one type of sword for his ultimate ability 

 

Judging by your post, you clearly don't know how to play Excalibur in my honest opinion. His 4 is garbage compare to alot of the melee so he is only good for his 2. Volt has an impenetrable shield, garuda has health and energy regen built into her so kinda like damage reduction, chroma isnt a versatile frame, what are you smoking lol. His ice and fire color gives him 1k health/1k Armor, harrow can basically go invincible for a few sec. Those are such different paints of coat for damage reduction. If Excalibur is the master of sword he should also be a master of parrying. he should be able deflect all sorts of attacks even better than any other frame with his melee. Kinda bummed that baruuk has that 3rd dr ability and mesa has shattershield which feels more up Excalibur's alley.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

3 minutes ago, kevoisvevo said:

Judging by your post, you clearly don't know how to play Excalibur in my honest opinion. His 4 is garbage compare to alot of the melee so he is only good for his 2. Volt has an impenetrable shield, garuda has health and energy regen built into her so kinda like damage reduction, chroma isnt a versatile frame, what are you smoking lol. His ice and fire color gives him 1k health/1k Armor, harrow can basically go invincible for a few sec. Those are such different paints of coat for damage reduction. If Excalibur is the master of sword he should also be a master of parrying. he should be able deflect all sorts of attacks even better than any other frame with his melee. Kinda bummed that baruuk has that 3rd dr ability and mesa has shattershield which feels more up Excalibur's alley.

Ok time to correct some of your presumptions 

First of all...saying "you don't know how to play this warframe" is a really toxic quote that i used to say myself when i didn't know any better

There's no better way to play a certain warframe

You play a warframe how you like to play them

Personally i like to maximize my warframes to be able to use every single ability efficiently and effectively 

You might love specific builds, i hate them...i love a one for all build 

 

Just because excalibur's 4 is objectively "garbage" compared to other exalted weapons doesn't mean i won't or shouldn't use it for damage...just ask @DeMonkey he's still crying about his staff since the rework...but that doesn't mean he still cant wipe everyone within 6.5 meters

 

...i never said chroma is a versatile warframe,...let me go and check my post....weird never said that huh!

Excalibur is master of parrying WITH swords...yes 

But giving him a passive timed based 95% damage reduction is NOT PARRYING 

Unless you don't know what parrying is then that's a different story

You see...baruuk has damage reduction because that's his whole theme...he's a pacifist that doesn't like to fight but when things get loose he goes nuts 

 

Part of his kit is mitigation of damage.

Mesa is the complete opposite of versatility and the complete opposite of fun...you tap her 2 3 and forget they ever exist for a few seconds

Then you just use 4 to wipe out everything, rinse and repeat.

 

Is this what you want for excalibur?

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

.just ask @DeMonkey he's still crying about his staff since the rework

Unsure if you're if you're making a joke about my comment in the Universal Vacuum thread, or just desperately wanting an arse whooping... 

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

1 minute ago, DeMonkey said:

Unsure if you're if you're making a joke about my comment in the Universal Vacuum thread, or just desperately wanting an arse whooping... 

Please no, i need friends 😞

 

I was actually referring to multiple posts lol

Mainly the one gears made, and something about how irom staff completely staggered you more than explosive weapons

 

[DeMonkey]

1 minute ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

and something about how irom staff completely staggered you more than explosive weapons

Yeah, that one was just a joke. I went for a metaphorical "staggered" as opposed to the obviously intended literal staggered.

Starting to see that my humour and your humour are vastly different. If in doubt Hopper, I'm probably just messing about.

[(PSN)Hopper_Orouk]

2 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Yeah, that one was just a joke. I went for a metaphorical "staggered" as opposed to the obviously intended literal staggered.

Starting to see that my humour and your humour are vastly different. If in doubt Hopper, I'm probably just messing about.

Man! I forced you to explain your own joke

That's my bad :V lmao

But i actually knew that was a joke and made me giggle.

I think it's nothing more than a misunderstanding that is caused by me

Ironically i was actually trying to be funny here XD 

 

 

 

 

[kevoisvevo]

33 minutes ago, (PS4)Hopper_Orouk said:

Ok time to correct some of your presumptions 

First of all...saying "you don't know how to play this warframe" is a really toxic quote that i used to say myself when i didn't know any better

There's no better way to play a certain warframe

You play a warframe how you like to play them

Personally i like to maximize my warframes to be able to use every single ability efficiently and effectively 

You might love specific builds, i hate them...i love a one for all build 

 

Just because excalibur's 4 is objectively "garbage" compared to other exalted weapons doesn't mean i won't or shouldn't use it for damage...just ask @DeMonkey he's still crying about his staff since the rework...but that doesn't mean he still cant wipe everyone within 6.5 meters

 

...i never said chroma is a versatile warframe,...let me go and check my post....weird never said that huh!

Excalibur is master of parrying WITH swords...yes 

But giving him a passive timed based 95% damage reduction is NOT PARRYING 

Unless you don't know what parrying is then that's a different story

You see...baruuk has damage reduction because that's his whole theme...he's a pacifist that doesn't like to fight but when things get loose he goes nuts 

 

Part of his kit is mitigation of damage.

Mesa is the complete opposite of versatility and the complete opposite of fun...you tap her 2 3 and forget they ever exist for a few seconds

Then you just use 4 to wipe out everything, rinse and repeat.

 

Is this what you want for excalibur?

Nah I want a 1 which doesn't have janky autoaim and can use all my melee mods like khora does her 1, might as well just use lockdown+dash since this 1 is so subpar. his 3 is useless but baruuk and mesa already have the similar damage reduction ability, so I figure it might as well be sentient swords which hover around excal and seek out targets for a  duration of time similar to Dante/Vergil's swords in devil may cry. His 4 being sub-par like many other exalted abilities doesn't excuse his exalted blade's relativity poor performance. Even baruuk's exalted fists and augments are plain better than excal's and that frame is a pacifist for god's sake lol. I could have made a case for excal's 4 being good before the melee update hit though.

[Xaero]

8 hours ago, VieuxPappy said:

Of all my post, that's the only thing we are talking about? 😕

That's only because I agree with the rest of it 🙂

Our suggestions on the ultimate are the same at their core and I'm ok with the rest of your suggestions too, just wanted to point out that currently it's possible to make Excal tanky even without having DR abilities.

8 hours ago, VieuxPappy said:

Are you talking about passive tankyness not requiring dodging, using cover or blocking with melee weapon?

Yes. Arcane Guardian + Adaptation + Quick Thinking + Primed Flow + Hunter Adrenaline + Amalgam Target Acquired and a katana weapon (or any other weapon paired with Life Strike) make a lot of impact. On top of all that, Shield Gating was introduced, which allows Excal not to be one-shotted at higher levels and build Adaptation resistances during invulnerability period. Also, they removed stagger effect from Quick Thinking. And Arcane Guardian can be upgraded to +900 armor now.

8 hours ago, VieuxPappy said:

You shouldn't need Arcane Barrier, Arcane Grace and Adaptation on top of all 3 umbra mods to make exca somewhat tanky.

Not arguing here. Just saying not having a DR ability is not an issue currently, with all the stuff we have at our disposal.

8 hours ago, VieuxPappy said:

I'm using Arcane Guardian, Umbra set and adaptation and I (passively) get blown out by corrupted heavy gunners lvl 125.

I recommend adding more of what I've listed in the upper part of my post.

8 hours ago, VieuxPappy said:

I have no idea how exca is supposed to survive (passively) lvl 200+, even less 250 to 300.

The word "supposed" is not really appropriate for levels 200+. It's not an intended difficulty, the game is not balanced around it and there are no unique or even scaling rewards at that point.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Xaero

[VieuxPappy]

6 hours ago, Xaero said:

That's only because I agree with the rest of it 🙂

Our suggestions on the ultimate are the same at their core and I'm ok with the rest of your suggestions too, just wanted to point out that currently it's possible to make Excal tanky even without having DR abilities.

Yes. Arcane Guardian + Adaptation + Quick Thinking + Primed Flow + Hunter Adrenaline + Amalgam Target Acquired and a katana weapon (or any other weapon paired with Life Strike) make a lot of impact. On top of all that, Shield Gating was introduced, which allows Excal not to be one-shotted at higher levels and build Adaptation resistances during invulnerability period. Also, they removed stagger effect from Quick Thinking. And Arcane Guardian can be upgraded to +900 armor now.

Not arguing here. Just saying not having a DR ability is not an issue currently, with all the stuff we have at our disposal.

I recommend adding more of what I've listed in the upper part of my post.

The word "supposed" is not really appropriate for levels 200+. It's not an intended difficulty, the game is not balanced around it and there are no unique or even scaling rewards at that point.

I just find it funny that "caster" frames like revenant and nova (to name a few only) or "ranged" frames like mesa simply have to press a button to be even tankier than exca is with all of those mods and arcanes equipped. 
About amalgam target acquired, I used to run it but you are stuck using the daikyu and the effect doesn't work with exca's 4. It's a shame is kit is lackluster and so boringly simple.

He used to be one of my fav frames, now nezha (an actually well designed frame with good synergies) just blows him out of the water in every single way (and im sure many more frames do too), in the form of :

• tankyness (for you and allies with Safeguard mod),
• speed (his 1st ability increases running speed, but also his passive makes himself gain ridiculously high velocity when sliding), 
• crowdcontrol (with his 4 but also with his 1 and 2 appliying heat status procs which not only CC but remove armor),
• ability damage (4th and 2nd ability used with reaping chakram mod will melt anything, really, when there's at least 2 of them for the chakrams to bounce between them),
• damage multiplication for self and allies weapons (thanks to his 2nd ability),
• immunity to statuses (for yourself but also allies standing in the flames) and
• you get to spawn a boat load of hp and energy orbs which means good support for teamates but also good synergy with health conversion and equilibrium so you never run out of energy (equip synth fiber on companion and you can pick up hp orbs even at full hp to continue refilling your energy when needed). 

[Xaero]

54 minutes ago, VieuxPappy said:

I just find it funny that "caster" frames like revenant and nova (to name a few only) or "ranged" frames like mesa simply have to press a button to be even tankier than exca is with all of those mods and arcanes equipped. 

On a side note, DR of Mesa doesn't actually work with melee enemies.

But yeah, just to make it fair, Excalibur can get DR too. I'm not really a fan of swords constantly flying around, so I suggest adding damage reduction based on number of enemies hit by Radial Javelin (time-limited but refreshable, cap at 90-95%). Basically, like what its augment does now but with DR instead of melee damage. To prevent spamming, higher DR percentage should be overwritten by smaller one if the ability is recasted on a smaller group. And what's most important, its current "awareness" targeting mechanic should be replaced by simple line of sight.

Edited April 24, 2020 by Xaero

[VieuxPappy]

1 hour ago, Xaero said:

On a side note, DR of Mesa doesn't actually work with melee enemies.

But yeah, just to make it fair, Excalibur can get DR too. I'm not really a fan of swords constantly flying around, so I suggest adding damage reduction based on number of enemies hit by Radial Javelin (time-limited but refreshable, cap at 90-95%). Basically, like what its augment does now but with DR instead of melee damage. To prevent spamming, higher DR percentage should be overwritten by smaller one if the ability is recasted on a smaller group. And what's most important, its current "awareness" targeting mechanic should be replaced by simple line of sight.

Nah it doesn't work on melee but her 2nd ability stuns melee enemies and she deals so much damage with her 4, I rarely see any enemy, if any, reach mesa in melee range. 

Yeah, I really don't mind how he gets DR and/or sustainability but I'd like it to be original with synergies between his abilities. ATM they just all do their different things. And I totally agree about the awareness thing. It should be like any other AoE ability in the game and effect all enemies in the radius of the ability regardless of if they are behind cover or unaware of exca's presence. 

[Xaero]

2 hours ago, VieuxPappy said:

but I'd like it to be original with synergies between his abilities

I'm fine with no synergy as long as all the skills are useful. And I definitely don't want to turn Excal into an ability casting bot just for the sake of maximum efficiency.