Railjack kills pets (and how to prevent it)

[Steel_Rook]

I apologise for the sensationalist title, as well as the unstructured nature of what I'm about to say. Since Railjack Revise came out, I've played quite a bit of it (I found it unpleasant for various reasons before). Most of it I've played solo, fairly slowly, with an eye towards game mechanics, mechanical implementation and bugs. All throughout my experience, I've been accompanied by Bird, my Moa Pet and by this point constant companion. I've seen Bird get hurt and killed and brought back by wonky systems implementations a great deal. By this point, I've developed a few "rules of thumb" for keeping him alive throughout an entire mission, precisely none of which have anything to do with enemies actually attacking or dealing damage to him. Here's an unstructured list of them.

 

Left behind on exploding Crew Ship

For various reasons, my preferred way of tackling Crew Ships is to board them, naturally bringing Bird along with me. I play Inaros so Bird isn't likely to get killed by Grineer (though it does happen). No, the chief cause of death for him is his inability to follow me. See, originally my tactic was to launch myself out of the Archwing Catapult, then proceed to use my Archwing and manually fly between Crew Ships, attacking them one at a time. Unfortunately, this caused a problem with how Bird teleports. Unlike when you use Titania's Razorwing, your pet doesn't disappear. Instead, it's left where it was until you arrive at another "ground instance" - another ship or base interior where you can walk. At THAT point, your pet will teleport to you.

What this meant is that I would blow up a Crew Ship's reactor, leave on my Archwing... And leave Bird in the ship. If I took longer than 20 seconds to get to another ship (which can happen with the distances involved), the original Crew Ship with Bird on it would explode, its interior instance would disappear and Bird would instantly die. Not go down, not require revival. Full health one second, dead the next. Permanently lost to me, with no ability for recovery (mostly, I'll get to that).

To solve this, I started employing a different tactic. Rather than using my Archwing to fly from Crew Ship to Crew Ship, I would instead use my Omnitool to return to the Railjack, reboard the Archwing teleport and fire myself off at another Crew Ship. My thinking there was that because I was in the Railjack, that would pull Bird out of the exploding Crew Ship, and he'd just wait aboard the Railjack until I punched into another Crew Ship, whereby he could rejoin me. That worked for a time, but was inconsistent because...

 

Really slow teleportation

When I board a Crew Ship, either via flying to it in my Archwing or shooting myself out of the Archwing Slingshot, Bird would appear next to me IMMEDIATELY. Eventually, however, I realised that this wasn't the case when I returned to the Railjack via the Omnitool (Tactical Recall Warp intrinsic). In THOSE cases, I would appear aboard my Railjack alone, Bird seemingly having failed to follow me. It wasn't until a good 5 seconds or so later that he would teleport to my side. I assume that something in that ability's implementation forces my pet to go through the same countdown that I do when using Recall Warp.

However, because I can teleport around the Railjack (Tactical Command Link intrinsic), I was often able to jump onto my Railjack's Helm or into the Archwing Slingshotbefore those 5 seconds had elapsed. Now, Bird will only teleport to me if I'm in a "ground instance," which is to say on my feet with gun in hand. If I'm sitting on a Railjack console (like the helm) or inside the Archwing Launcher, he simply won't teleport to me until I go back to my feet. As a result, I was getting Bird killed by jumping into the Archwing Slingshottoo quickly, before he could teleport to me, stranding him on the exploding Crew Ship. This got him killed.

To solve this, I've drilled into my head a sort of "buddy check." Once I'm back to the Railjack, I won't actually DO anything until I've confirmed that Bird is by my side, safe. I may still teleport around the ship, but I won't interact with anything until I've done my buddy check. Since I started doing this, I have managed to successfully keep Bird alive for the duration of my Railjack missions, retaining loot radar and enemy radar and vacuum (and, like, keeping my buddy alive). But other problems still remain that I can't solve.

 

Health link confusion

As I said, I play Inaros and Bird is equipped with a Health Link. I have ~8000 HP, Bird has ~13 000 HP, he's pretty tough. Except almost every time I actually board an enemy base or ship, Bird shows up severely hurt, sporting only ~4000 HP. Initially I thought he was just getting hurt in combat - these ARE level 80 Grineer troops we're talking about... But that wasn't the issue. Once I kept track of his health, I noticed that he ALWAYS dropped down to ~4000 HP every time I completed an Archwing flight, either manually or through the Archwing Launcher.

You see, I use the Amesha (because of course I do), and that has ~2200 HP the way I have it built. I noticed that while I'm out in space or sitting in the Archwing Slingshot, Bird's health is showing up as invulnerable, but the value it lists... Is ~4000. I'm rounding the numbers a little since I'm speaking off memory, but what appears to be happening is that Bird's health is being recalculated relative to my Archwing's health, not my Warframe's health. For most people this might not be an issue because everyone uses the very high-health Amesha and a regular Warframe. For ME, however, it's an issue because my Inaros has substantially more health than the Amesha, causing Bird to effectively take damage every time we travel. And not insignificant damage, too - 2/3 of his health.

I don't have a solution to this issue, short of just healing Bird whenever we arrive. That's possible, but it's often not worth the bother since he's still pretty tough even at ~4000 HP. However, this HAS led to me losing Bird not to bugs but from him simply getting killed. Remember how I mentioned him taking an extra 5 seconds to teleport back to the Railjack after I do? Well, for those 5 seconds he's still aboard the enemy Crew Ship, eating damage from high-level Grineer. I have, thus, resolved to always wipe Crew Ships clear of their titular crew before returning to the Railjack, or else to heal Bird to full at the start of combat.

And just as an aside - no, this doesn't happen with the Railjack. While the Railjack has its own stats for health, armour and shields, I don't "become" the Railjack while flying it the same way I "become" my Archwing when I'm out in space. I only attach myself to it, thus Bird's stats remain unchanged - they're based off of mine. It's only when I mount my Archwing that issues arise. But it's not all bad, because...

 

Back from the dead:

Initially, when I didn't realise I was getting Bird killed by stranding him on exploding Crew Ships, I ended up getting him killed A LOT. However, again and again he came back to me, seemingly for no reason. Eventually, I pieced together why. See, when I leave Bird onboard an exploding Crew Ship, that doesn't actually "kill" him. It just removes him from the map, as the interior instance of the Crew Ship itself despawns. This is why Railjack launched with so many hilarious softlocks and black screens initially, to do with exploding Crew Ships with players inside them. However, these instances aren't "deleted." Instead, they appear to ALWAYS be on ALL of the Railjack maps, just hidden when not in use.

What this means is that if I lose Bird inside an exploding Crew Ship, but then another Crew Ship spawns with the same interior layout... Well, Bird will be there when I board it. He remained stuck on the instance at it was hidden, the instance was un-hidden when another Crew Ship spawned with it (just repopulated with crew and chests), meaning that I could get my Bird back if I was lucky to go back to the same instance. When people ask me why I like to speculate about back-end implementation and coding, stuff like this is the reason why. When oddball bugs expose the underlying software architecture, I can't help but be fascinated by it.

Long story short, all of the ship, base and Railjack interiors on a given Railjack map are always there (probably including interiors for all the Points of Interest that didn't spawn), but the majority of them are hidden unless needed, then un-hidden and repopulated when needed again. If you're unlucky enough to BE on an instance when it's hidden, you're locked out of the game until it's un-hidden again. That might not work very well for players, but it does seem to work semi-consistently for my Bird.

 

In conclusion:

Right now, taking Beast and Moa pets to Railjack missions is akin to walking on eggshells. You CAN keep them alive, but you need to be aware of all the weird little bug which still exist with the system (and yes, I've reported them already). If you can work around those bugs, you can keep your pet with you throughout the mission without much issue. However, the limitations you need to impose on yourself to do it may be too restrictive to be practical for everyone. Maybe bring a Sentinel, instead. Near as I can tell those don't get left behind. But don't quote me on that.

[keikogi]

30 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

As I said, I play Inaros and Bird is equipped with a Health Link. I have ~8000 HP, Bird has ~13 000 HP, he's pretty tough. Except almost every time I actually board an enemy base or ship, Bird shows up severely hurt, sporting only ~4000 HP. Initially I thought he was just getting hurt in combat - these ARE level 80 Grineer troops we're talking about... But that wasn't the issue. Once I kept track of his health, I noticed that he ALWAYS dropped down to ~4000 HP every time I completed an Archwing flight, either manually or through the Archwing Launcher.

You see, I use the Amesha (because of course I do), and that has ~2200 HP the way I have it built. I noticed that while I'm out in space or sitting in the Archwing Slingshot, Bird's health is showing up as invulnerable, but the value it lists... Is ~4000. I'm rounding the numbers a little since I'm speaking off memory, but what appears to be happening is that Bird's health is being recalculated relative to my Archwing's health, not my Warframe's health. For most people this might not be an issue because everyone uses the very high-health Amesha and a regular Warframe. For ME, however, it's an issue because my Inaros has substantially more health than the Amesha, causing Bird to effectively take damage every time we travel. And not insignificant damage, too - 2/3 of his health.

I don't have a solution to this issue, short of just healing Bird whenever we arrive. That's possible, but it's often not worth the bother since he's still pretty tough even at ~4000 HP. However, this HAS led to me losing Bird not to bugs but from him simply getting killed. Remember how I mentioned him taking an extra 5 seconds to teleport back to the Railjack after I do? Well, for those 5 seconds he's still aboard the enemy Crew Ship, eating damage from high-level Grineer. I have, thus, resolved to always wipe Crew Ships clear of their titular crew before returning to the Railjack, or else to heal Bird to full at the start of combat.

And just as an aside - no, this doesn't happen with the Railjack. While the Railjack has its own stats for health, armour and shields, I don't "become" the Railjack while flying it the same way I "become" my Archwing when I'm out in space. I only attach myself to it, thus Bird's stats remain unchanged - they're based off of mine. It's only when I mount my Archwing that issues arise. But it's not all bad, because...

I kinda think link mods were a mistake to begin with, tying the pet survivability to warframe first screws the internal balance of pets ( kubrows are supposed to be a bit more durable than kavats but link mods don’t care about their base stats ). It also is nonsensical design decision because warframe durability is usually tied to skills not base stats , so copying base does not really help.

33 minutes ago, Steel_Rook said:

Back from the dead:

Initially, when I didn't realise I was getting Bird killed by stranding him on exploding Crew Ships, I ended up getting him killed A LOT. However, again and again he came back to me, seemingly for no reason. Eventually, I pieced together why. See, when I leave Bird onboard an exploding Crew Ship, that doesn't actually "kill" him. It just removes him from the map, as the interior instance of the Crew Ship itself despawns. This is why Railjack launched with so many hilarious softlocks and black screens initially, to do with exploding Crew Ships with players inside them. However, these instances aren't "deleted." Instead, they appear to ALWAYS be on ALL of the Railjack maps, just hidden when not in use.

What this means is that if I lose Bird inside an exploding Crew Ship, but then another Crew Ship spawns with the same interior layout... Well, Bird will be there when I board it. He remained stuck on the instance at it was hidden, the instance was un-hidden when another Crew Ship spawned with it (just repopulated with crew and chests), meaning that I could get my Bird back if I was lucky to go back to the same instance. When people ask me why I like to speculate about back-end implementation and coding, stuff like this is the reason why. When oddball bugs expose the underlying software architecture, I can't help but be fascinated by it.

Long story short, all of the ship, base and Railjack interiors on a given Railjack map are always there (probably including interiors for all the Points of Interest that didn't spawn), but the majority of them are hidden unless needed, then un-hidden and repopulated when needed again. If you're unlucky enough to BE on an instance when it's hidden, you're locked out of the game until it's un-hidden again. That might not work very well for players, but it does seem to work semi-consistently for my Bird.

 

In conclusion:

Right now, taking Beast and Moa pets to Railjack missions is akin to walking on eggshells. You CAN keep them alive, but you need to be aware of all the weird little bug which still exist with the system (and yes, I've reported them already). If you can work around those bugs, you can keep your pet with you throughout the mission without much issue. However, the limitations you need to impose on yourself to do it may be too restrictive to be practical for everyone. Maybe bring a Sentinel, instead. Near as I can tell those don't get left behind. But don't quote me on that.

I really wish DE just implemented fail safes for pets , if the Pet is on another stance it automatically teleports back, if the pet is more than 35 meters away it also teleports back , if the Pet Dies give it a time out and them bring it back. Most warframes do not really have any agency over their pet living or dying so Idk why it is no annoying getting then back up. They don’t even have shield gate for some reason (probably DE forgot and no youtuber brought that topic up)

[Xaero]

The pet actually gets revived the next time you enter something.

[taiiat]

the flip side of Companions being more prone to dying than usual(due to Teleporting between locations regularly rather than moving through areas) in Railjack is that they can also be magically resurrected from the Dead(Revive Timer expiring and saying Dead) later on in the same Mission.

Companions seemingly still not having Shield Gating isn't helping either, nor that Fire Status still permanently stunlocks Dogs/Cats.

Edited May 5, 2020 by taiiat

[Vit0Corleone]

I'm just here to say how much I enjoyed reading what you wrote.

Thanks for sharing.

[Vit0Corleone]

I imagine that this new Hotfix that just dropped is not a coincidence 🙂

 

 

Railjack Changes & Fixes:

• Your Pet Companions will now teleport alongside you when transitioning between different regions in a Railjack mission (ie Omni Recall, Archwing Slingshot, boarding a Crewship via Archwing, etc). 
  • This addresses feedback that Pet  Companions could take many seconds to catch up, or if it's bleeding out, won't catch up at all, thus dying frequently. This also fixes Pet Companions sometimes dying on an exploding Crewship that you’ve already departed from. 
  • A lingering issue we’re chasing is the Join Warp feature not bringing your Pet Companion with you.

[Steel_Rook]

2 hours ago, Vit0Corleone said:

I'm just here to say how much I enjoyed reading what you wrote.

Thanks for sharing.

Thanks 🙂 I couldn't really figure out a good way to structure this, so I figured a general anecdotal retelling was the only real way.

 

2 hours ago, Vit0Corleone said:

Railjack Changes & Fixes:

• Your Pet Companions will now teleport alongside you when transitioning between different regions in a Railjack mission (ie Omni Recall, Archwing Slingshot, boarding a Crewship via Archwing, etc). 
  • This addresses feedback that Pet  Companions could take many seconds to catch up, or if it's bleeding out, won't catch up at all, thus dying frequently. This also fixes Pet Companions sometimes dying on an exploding Crewship that you’ve already departed from. 
  • A lingering issue we’re chasing is the Join Warp feature not bringing your Pet Companion with you.

Yup, I was quite surprised to see that. Guess reporting those bugs really had an effect 🙂 I field-tested these changes and two of the three issues I reported have been fixed. Specifically, "left behind on exploding crew ship" and "really slow teleportation." I shot a Crew Ship's reactor and deliberately left Bird on board until it blew up - few out in my Archwing and waited. Bird did not die and his health did not budge. It seems that DE have done what I initially proposed - remove my pet from the field entirely the moment I go into Archwing, then teleport it to me when I'm back on the "ground." Bird now also seems to teleport to me pretty quickly. It's still not instant, but it seems to take less than a second - enough to make me wonder, but not enough to matter.

Unfortunately, Bird still loses health when I activate my Archwing. Granted, that's a separate system and a separate issue, but it's worth noting - that's still there. Overall, though, the former two changes were the really restrictive ones. With these, I don't have to be AS careful about getting Bird killed by bugs and I'm a lot more free to travel from ship to ship. This is good, and I'm really happy to see it, either way 🙂

 

2 hours ago, Xaero said:

The pet actually gets revived the next time you enter something.

I thought so, too, because I thought I saw Bird appear next to me inside a Point of Interest. That doesn't seem to be the case, however, because I'd jump between a lot of ships, between a lot of different locations and very rarely did Bird reappear. The only times I was consistently able to make him reappear was boarding a Crew Ship with the layout of the one I'd originally lost Bird in. This also only seemed to work if I'd lost Bird to a Crew Ship explosion. If he got shot down (which did happen occasionally, due to him having reduced health from his Health Link), I don't think I ever saw him come back. This is what led me to suspect it was an issue of instancing, more so than an issue of actual death and respawning. My impression is that losing Bird to an exploding Crew Ship didn't KILL him but rather put him in a broken state from which he could sometimes recover.

 

2 hours ago, keikogi said:

I really wish DE just implemented fail safes for pets , if the Pet is on another stance it automatically teleports back, if the pet is more than 35 meters away it also teleports back , if the Pet Dies give it a time out and them bring it back. Most warframes do not really have any agency over their pet living or dying so Idk why it is no annoying getting then back up. They don’t even have shield gate for some reason (probably DE forgot and no youtuber brought that topic up)

A bit off-topic, but I agree with this. I've suggested similar, as well, to the point of even wondering if pets should be killable in the first place. We as players have very little agency over whether our pets live or die, or even what they do monent-to-moment. About the most I can do is "be Inaros" just so my pet has over 10K health by extension, but that's about it. We'll see what Pets 2.0 brings in regards to pet commands and whatnot, but I agree with the central premise here. Give me a "Pet Recall" gear item which teleports the pet to me, heals it if needed, revives it if needed, and works on a 20-60 second cooldown. But again - don't want to go too off-topic, especially since DE actually fixed some of my concerns seemingly AS I was typing them out 🙂