Felsagger Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) 51 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said: That example with unreal isn’t a realistic example of bad code or spaghetti code it looks like it but if you’re a dev or work in unreal that code is neat for the amount of .... whatever they are trying to do. The tasks at hand are separated and grouped accordingly and are more then likely split like that based on functionality. I’d also like to state that just because it looks jumbled dosent mean it’s spaghetti code but it’s rather then functionality of the code that makes it such. The grasshopper code dosent even look that bad lol. You’re using visual scripting and or node based scripting to try to prove a point as well lad. None of that seems like spaghetti code the term spaghetti code is usually in reference to poorly optimized code that is functionality “all over the place” nobody cares how your code looks unless you’re working in a team or a massive massive project with a team so long as it functions as intended with little error Plato, you don't know what you are saying...lmao...^^ jk. But you do not understand. Spaghetti code is a term we use for parametric scripting design. Why? Because the box and wires system looks like a Spaghetti. When we speak about code robustness we use other terms to designate it. Robustness is the "ability to cope with errors during program execution even under unusual conditions". Another terminology that is widely used is CACE (change anything, change everything). I'm speaking strictly about the nature of a code that has lots of variables or parameters. The imbrication of this type of complex code has cascade effects due to the nature of it. I work with Grasshopper 3d. My spaghetti is well organized and documented because coding should be always documented with comments explaining the operation of the code. Documentation of the code helps other users adapt, adopt, transform, redefine, re purpose my code among other things related to it. Spaghetti is a term we use to designate a type of graphic user interface. Instead of seeing the classical typical lines of codes we represent with visual output how the code operates and where the information of the variables goes. Tracking the flow of information is the very basics in scripting for parametric architecture. Visual coding is just an aid for fast visualization of your information. Tufte wrote few books about the visualization of information. About DE. The only thing we have is the constant bug fixing and all the mess caused when new code is introduced. We've seen lot of people having issues logging on because a new set of conditions are introduced in a hotfix. The health of their code sometimes is questionable because their code produces a lot of unwanted bugs. I haven't seen their code but the results, the game itself, tells a lot about how they manage their business. If you are interested in the nature of this code here is an example. Edited May 31, 2020 by Felsagger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sweatshawp Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 16 minutes ago, Felsagger said: But you do not understand. Spaghetti code is a term we use for parametric scripting design. Why? Because the box and wires system looks like a Spaghetti. When we speak about code robustness we use other terms to designate it. Robustness is the "ability to cope with errors during program execution even under unusual conditions". Another terminology that is widely used is CACE (change anything, change everything). I'm speaking strictly about the nature of a code that has lots of variables or parameters. The imbrication of this type of complex code has cascade effects due to the nature of it As someone who sits in front of his pc for at minimum 6 hours a day coding using c++ and bps in unreal I do understand. And given the size of the projects it’s natural for it to have a large amount of variables boolens vectors Flots calls etc. But that code was very neat in terms of what they were trying to do. They could’ve put each section into a function and call said function to make it look somewhat neater and save some screen space via unreal and a couple of other things I don’t care to nitpick at. But other then that both examples aren’t really spaghetti code at least by game design standards. Because again the functionality matters more then how the code looks. The neural network I’m working on via C++ is currently unreadable to most everyone but me. But outside of it looking like hell on earth. It functions near flawlessly. 21 minutes ago, Felsagger said: Visual coding is just an aid for fast visualization of your information. Tufte wrote few books about the visualization of information. About DE. The only thing we have is the constant bug fixing and all the mess caused when new code is introduced. We've seen lot of people having issues logging on because a new set of conditions are introduced in a hotfix. The health of their code sometimes is questionable because their code produces a lot of unwanted bugs. I haven't seen their code but the results, the game itself, tells a lot about how they manage their business. If you are interested in the nature of this code here is an example. Also visual scripting isn’t an aid. As of reccent it can be used as a standalone way to code or prototype in many instances. But since it’s ran inside of a VM you’d have to likley nativize a lot of your code to a language like c++ for better performance depending on the size of the project. the constant bug fixing is due to poorly implemented code not code all over the place in the mentioned example. Someone also mentioned source so It could be a case of improper source management. But I personally just don’t like lua and belive lua is just being lua 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felsagger Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) 52 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said: As someone who sits in front of his pc for at minimum 6 hours a day coding using c++ and bps in unreal I do understand. And given the size of the projects it’s natural for it to have a large amount of variables boolens vectors Flots calls etc. But that code was very neat in terms of what they were trying to do. They could’ve put each section into a function and call said function to make it look somewhat neater and save some screen space via unreal and a couple of other things I don’t care to nitpick at. But other then that both examples aren’t really spaghetti code at least by game design standards. Because again the functionality matters more then how the code looks. The neural network I’m working on via C++ is currently unreadable to most everyone but me. But outside of it looking like hell on earth. It functions near flawlessly. Also visual scripting isn’t an aid. As of reccent it can be used as a standalone way to code or prototype in many instances. But since it’s ran inside of a VM you’d have to likley nativize a lot of your code to a language like c++ for better performance depending on the size of the project. the constant bug fixing is due to poorly implemented code not code all over the place in the mentioned example. Someone also mentioned source so It could be a case of improper source management. But I personally just don’t like lua and belive lua is just being lua I never critiqued the apparel of their code. I simply spoke about the representation of the code with a name. These two things are two different beasts. I am aware that their problem is not related to code all over the place. It is a problem of implementation and proper debuging. We both coincide on that. I was not aware about proper source management issues until few weeks ago. Yes, source management seems to be another issue that people mention over and over on these forums. We are speaking about an issue with robustness and performance called CACE. Besides I'm just an old C++ enthusiast. I use this language for physics, math and many other things related to architecture. Going back on track. There are three fundamental issues that DE is characterized as a developer in the industry. 1. They don't play their own game when new content is released. Fundamental parameters are not tweaked correctly. They provide a forum for us to do that for them. 2. They can't predict potential outliers of people abusing certain exploits that they provide in the first place. They ban youtubers, users and people who find exploits in the game "glitching". They provide 'listeners' or 'snitchers', :3, searching for those exploits. 3. Proper debugging and revision for potential performance issues. They provide a forum for us to do that for them. All of this happens because they have a shroud that protects them. That shroud is the classical coined phrase "the game is in a beta process". They develop cheaply. Part of that development goes on us being bug hunters of their game. Edited May 31, 2020 by Felsagger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sweatshawp Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 Just now, Felsagger said: I never critiqued the apparel of their code. I simply spoke about the representation of the code with a name. These two things are two different beasts. I am aware that their problem is not related to code all over the place. It is a problem of implementation and proper debuging. We both coincide on that. I was not aware about proper source management issues until few weeks ago. Yes, source management seems to be another issue that people mention over and over on these forums. We are speaking about an issue with robustness and performance called CACE. Besides I'm just an old C++ enthusiast. I use this language for physics, math and many other things related to architecture. Going back on track. There are three fundamental issues that DE is characterized as a developer in the industry. 1. They don't play their own game when new content is released. Fundamental parameters are not tweaked correctly. They provide a forum for us to do that them. 2. They can't predict potential outliers of people abusing certain exploits that they provide in the first place. They ban youtubers, users and people who find exploits in the game "glitching". They provide 'listeners' or 'snitchers', :3, searching for those exploits. 3. Proper debugging and revision for potential performance issues. They provide a forum for us to do that for them. All of this happens because they have a shroud that protects them. That shroud is the classical coined phrase "the game is in a beta process". They develop cheaply. Part of that development goes on us being bug hunters of their game. The issue at hand was improper use of examples via pictures mate. I completely understand what your trying to say but your examples were poor to say the least and very misleading 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felsagger Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said: The issue at hand was improper use of examples via pictures mate. I completely understand what your trying to say but your examples were poor to say the least and very misleading Sir Lancelot. I illustrated how I use the word Spaghetti code with those examples. That guy wanted to know why I use that word. Edit: Get some coffee, bruh...:P Edited May 31, 2020 by Felsagger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sweatshawp Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 5 minutes ago, Felsagger said: Sir Lancelot. I illustrated how I use the word Spaghetti code with those examples. That guy wanted to know why I use that word. Edit: Get some coffee, bruh...:P In terms of game design those are ill examples. Again as someone who actively is working in the field. That’s what I’m trying to point out. also I don’t drink coffee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talewa751 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 On 2020-05-17 at 5:28 PM, Gabbynaru said: Good. Let's drop this charade then and let this be the wonderful power fantasy that it is instead of trying to "balance" it and take all the fun out in the process. I don't think it'd be less fun necessarily. Just harder.(which makes it less boring) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Talewa751 Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 On 2020-05-17 at 5:32 PM, (XB1)TyeGoo said: turn it into dark souls 4, while basically pissing off the majority of players. That's sounds awesome actually. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 9 hours ago, Felsagger said: 2. They can't predict potential outliers of people abusing certain exploits that they provide in the first place. They ban youtubers, users and people who find exploits in the game "glitching". They provide 'listeners' or 'snitchers', :3, searching for those exploits. Just want to point out that isnt entirely true. They ban people no matter who they are, if they exploit a bug willingly and repeatedly while possibly also spreading the exploit info to others. Those that were banned didnt just find a potential exploit and reported it, they took full advantage of it until others had reported it. DE treats people the same as other companies do in other online games. Exploit by accident since it may be unavoidable or very hard to spot and nothing will happen, exploit an obvious glitch with intention and get your ass banned. Venari exploit being a prime example of justified bans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felsagger Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 10 hours ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said: In terms of game design those are ill examples. Again as someone who actively is working in the field. That’s what I’m trying to point out. also I don’t drink coffee If you have good examples, you are welcome to share them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felsagger Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said: Just want to point out that isn't entirely true. They ban people no matter who they are "They ban youtubers, users and people who find exploits in the game "glitching" " Users includes anyone who uses them not the people who finds them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 11 minutes ago, Felsagger said: "They ban youtubers, users and people who find exploits in the game "glitching" " Users includes anyone who uses them not the people who finds them. That wasnt the point. My point was that they dont ban people based on "who finds exploits". They ban based on exessive exploiting when it can be avoided after it is found. I just thought it was easier to type "no matter who they are" instead of lining up 3 redundant labels as you did, where two means the same thing, in order to in the end simply refer to everybody anyway. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sweatshawp Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 37 minutes ago, Felsagger said: If you have good examples, you are welcome to share them. A good example of spaghetti code is the yandere chan simulator code look into it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felsagger Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) 45 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said: That wasnt the point. My point was that they dont ban people based on "who finds exploits". They ban based on exessive exploiting when it can be avoided after it is found. I just thought it was easier to type "no matter who they are" instead of lining up 3 redundant labels as you did, where two means the same thing, in order to in the end simply refer to everybody anyway. Edited May 31, 2020 by Felsagger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felsagger Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 10 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said: A good example of spaghetti code is the yandere chan simulator code look into it The spaghetti code refers to the appearance of the code. Example: Rudimentary display in Fortran where arrows indicates where the information goes. Box and Wire in Grasshopper. A visual script where wires and boxes indicates the path of information. Are you guys trolling or playing dumb on purpose? lmao... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sweatshawp Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) 54 minutes ago, Felsagger said: The spaghetti code refers to the appearance of the code. Example: Rudimentary display in Fortran where arrows indicates where the information goes. Box and Wire in Grasshopper. A visual script where wires and boxes indicates the path of information. Are you guys trolling or playing dumb on purpose? lmao... I mean sure Arguing with someone who is working with the code is definitely troling Spaghetti code is a pejorative phrase for unstructured and difficult-to-maintain source code. Spaghetti code can be caused by several factors, such as volatile project requirements, lack of programming style rules, and insufficient ability or experience Edited May 31, 2020 by (PS4)sweatshawp 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SneakyErvin Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) 54 minutes ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said: I mean sure Arguing with someone who is working with the code is definitely troling Spaghetti code is a pejorative phrase for unstructured and difficult-to-maintain source code. Spaghetti code can be caused by several factors, such as volatile project requirements, lack of programming style rules, and insufficient ability or experience He'll never give up though, no matter how wrong he is. He has his own definition of things regarding pretty much any topic. Also not sure what the two pics have to do with spaghetti code either since both look very structured to me. Edited May 31, 2020 by SneakyErvin 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sweatshawp Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said: He'll never give up though, no matter how wrong he is. He has his own definition of things regarding pretty much any topic. Also not sure what the two pics have to do with spaghetti code either since both look very structured to me. The thing is both were very well put together. Eso the unreal example. If code looked like a mess but was still very functional and working it’s not spaghetti code. It would have to actually be all over the place and perform like such. The crazy thing is I wasn’t even disagreeing with him to n extent but I pointed out those were ill examples 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felsagger Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 1 hour ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said: I mean sure Arguing with someone who is working with the code is definitely troling Spaghetti code is a pejorative phrase for unstructured and difficult-to-maintain source code. Spaghetti code can be caused by several factors, such as volatile project requirements, lack of programming style rules, and insufficient ability or experience Yes but I was using it as an apparel of the code. However I've heard it from other users who are programmers speaking about the entangled mess that DE has. I haven't seen the code myself so I can't tell if DE has a mess in their hands. I can't tel about those details. However many experts claim that DE's code is not the best in the market for obvious reasons. The game itself hints us that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felsagger Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 (edited) 37 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said: He'll never give up though, no matter how wrong he is. He has his own definition of things regarding pretty much any topic. Also not sure what the two pics have to do with spaghetti code either since both look very structured to me. I don't need to prove you wrong. A 12 years old Call of Duty dumb toxic player can do that better than any of us. Many times you have been proven wrong by many in the PvP thread and here with evidence. You simply are stubborn and you argue anyone to the end of times. This is why I stopped responding to your posts. Talking to you is the same as talking to a concrete thick wall reinforced with iron bars. You are simply baiting for arguments with the intentions of being annoying. You even argue with moderators, to boot. Proof: Sweat knows what he's talking about, you obviously don't. Edited May 31, 2020 by Felsagger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sweatshawp Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 14 minutes ago, Felsagger said: Yes but I was using it as an apparel of the code. However I've heard it from other users who are programmers speaking about the entangled mess that DE has. I haven't seen the code myself so I can't tell if DE has a mess in their hands. I can't tel about those details. However many experts claim that DE's code is not the best in the market for obvious reasons. The game itself hints us that. In that regard that’s still an inaccurate use of the example as there is no visual indicator of such. and please provide such experts I’d love to look into your sources as even though the code is far from good it’s not as uncommon from literally hundreds of games on market. You speak as if youre. Very knowledgeable on the subject yet have contracted yourself multiple times 16 minutes ago, Felsagger said: I was using it as an apparel of the code. Then 13 hours ago, Felsagger said: I never critiqued the apparel of their code. I simply spoke about the representation of the code with a name 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felsagger Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 1 minute ago, (PS4)sweatshawp said: In that regard that’s still an inaccurate use of the example as there is no visual indicator of such. and please provide such experts I’d love to look into your sources as even though the code is far from good it’s not as uncommon from literally hundreds of games on market. You speak as if youre. Very knowledgeable on the subject yet have contracted yourself multiple times Then You are arguing semantics. I know how to differentiate appearance from content on the source code. I am saying what other people claim. These are not my claims. I can't say anything about DE lua's code because I haven't seen it. The only thing we have is the game, the bugs and the constant updates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sweatshawp Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 3 minutes ago, Felsagger said: You are arguing semantics. I know how to differentiate appearance from content on the source code. I am saying what other people claim. These are not my claims. I can't say anything about DE lua's code because I haven't seen it. The only thing we have is the game, the bugs and the constant updates. I’m just stating what you Said and if that’s the case again you used an ill example to present the argument i haven’t seen the code either but with that being said it’s the context of what you said and the examples you used 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Felsagger Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 Just now, (PS4)sweatshawp said: and if that’s the case again you used an ill example to present the argument Semantics Just now, (PS4)sweatshawp said: i haven’t seen the code either but with that being said it’s the context of what you said and the examples you used The concept was explained with examples. We have two different ideas of the same concept. Big deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)sweatshawp Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 14 minutes ago, Felsagger said: Semantics The concept was explained with examples. We have two different ideas of the same concept. Big deal. You’re example presented isn’t an accurate example and that’s what I’m tryin to point out. But you refuse to admit your wrong 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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