Pablo acknowledges why better AI alone will not be enough for good difficulty in WF: We need to be nerfed first

[Kainosh]

1 minute ago, Gabbynaru said:

Yup. Dunno what you're on about, what you described sounds awesome. I'd totally be down for that. It might actually make me use Volt willingly.

And that's not true.  What I described is not a game anymore. And I never saw you actually asking for such crazy buffs...so that's not what you really desire.

Feels like you use such threads and all that "power fantasy" argument just to milk likes from "unsuspecting ones".

[Gabbynaru]

11 minutes ago, Kainosh said:

And that's not true.  What I described is not a game anymore. And I never saw you actually asking for such crazy buffs...so that's not what you really desire.

Feels like you use such threads and all that "power fantasy" argument just to milk likes from "unsuspecting ones".

I'm not gonna ask cause I know how to forums react to requesting buffs. Plus, I'm well aware what you  said is deep in the realm of ridiculous. But, if it were to ever happen, it would not put me off of the game. I would still play it and likely still enjoy it. Cause what you are describing is essentially what I make my builds for. You may not like that concept, but I sure as hell do.

[SneakyErvin]

13 hours ago, Corvid said:

I think Sweatshawp is using the wrong terminology for the point they are making (feel free to correct me if I'm misreading you, @(PS4)sweatshawp ), and what they mean when they say "Active Accounts" is "Registered Accounts". If I'm reading them correctly, they're reiterating a point that I've made a few times, which is that the number of registered accounts is growing at a significantly higher rate than the concurrent player numbers, indicating a high level of attrition.

That would make sense if he ever refered to the registered accounts, he just refers to different numbers of the active playerbase. Never once have I seen him mention the now near 60 million registered accounts. He's also using an active number that was taken based on 2018, while the active player base for 2019 has grown close to 5m.

If he was refering to some numbers out of the total registered accounts he wouldnt end up with figures like 0.1 or 0.2 active at the moment. Though it makes sense he arrives to that 0.1 to 0.2 if hes basing it around the 3 million actives he mentions along with the 300-400k concurrents across all platforms. If this was about actives out of the total the figures would be between 0.08 to 0.09. Where 0.1 to 0.15 is normal to good for a game in general, before factoring in the monetization, accessibility and age of it. F2P naturally has lower retention since the model has no buy-in, so have a much more inflated number of total users.

So I'm not really sure what point he's actually making at all.

5 hours ago, Felsagger said:

In few days we will see the reveal of the PS5 and more announcements for Cyberpunk 77, Ghosts of Tsushima and TLoU2. War Frame seems will do an appearance on the list of PS5 games. For this discussion will be eternal like the burden of keeping up with the stakes of the next generation of open world games. At such increase in minimum requirements many features that was limited by hardware will be get a chance on the PS5 and the series X. 

Cyberpunk will be under the microscope by a large part of the player community since it is a longstanding frenchise. If they fail to stand true to the frenchise they will lose alot of players quickly. I just hope they manage to get the multiplayer implemented in time for release, otherwise I'll wait to pick it up till it is in. I'm also not really sure what 3 games that are completely different to Warframe would have to do with the future of Warframe. You are reasoning even worse than the people that went "Anthem, WF killer!" and "Destiny 2, WF killer!", "Division 2, WF killer!" and then a second time "Destiny 2, WF killer!" when it released "free" on Steam. Those games were atleast multiplayer looter shooters.

But what would the 3 mentioned above have to offer if someone is looking for WF? Out of the 3 mentioned atleast two are heavily story driven, Ghost I dont know about since I dont really follow console exclusives, still it will be single player only.

[TeCoolTenno]

"Warframe needs to be easy for my power fantasy"

^ these kinds of people are actually in the minority.

 

Warframe can improve with higher difficulty and nerfing stupid perma CC or insta nuke abilities.

 

But the majority of people play regardless of difficulty. They play for fashion frame, the time they've sunk into the game, and new content that's been hyped up.

 

Same discussion happens to every popular game:

"Change blatantly problem X or the game will die"

"No, people like X, the game will die if you go against the majority of the player base"

"Here's a bunch of reasons why X is bad, the game will die if these continue to exist"

"No, the game has been like this forever and it hasn't died yet. Changing it will kill the game for sure."

Reality: The game is incredibly old and popular, its playerbase is durable and will put up with most BS released especially if they've spent IRL money on the game. A tiny minority of players say that X is a thing that's in the game, combined with the fact the game is successful, makes it key to a successful game.

 

Adjust/nerf Saryn, Equinox, Limbo, Khora, Volt, etc etc. The playerbase won't have a stroke regardless of what people say. Those frames are just OP and trivialize missions that no amount of 'buffing' will fix.

Balance the damn game

 

[Enialyx]

Personally, I couldn't care less about any "hard mode". I'm a power fantasy casual and that's how I stay. However, I have absolutely nothing against other people having hard difficulty.

Honestly, you can never please all players with just one difficulty setting. Calling it "balance" won't change this. Some want it easier, some harder. The only way to solve this is different difficulty modes (the best being modular difficulty) or missions of varying difficulty. And doing it so neither casuals or hardcores are left without content.

[SneakyErvin]

2 hours ago, Enialyx said:

Personally, I couldn't care less about any "hard mode". I'm a power fantasy casual and that's how I stay. However, I have absolutely nothing against other people having hard difficulty.

Honestly, you can never please all players with just one difficulty setting. Calling it "balance" won't change this. Some want it easier, some harder. The only way to solve this is different difficulty modes (the best being modular difficulty) or missions of varying difficulty. And doing it so neither casuals or hardcores are left without content.

This is probably the most sensible and reasonable post in the whole thread and it is spot on. 👍

[Felsagger]

Both of you nubs can't play other games that requires skill and thinking. Check. (last two posts)

 

If games are not based on any type of skill then what is the point of playing them? Playing chess in easy mode is not playing chess at all. Or having two queens while the other adversary has nights and pawns is not a match. 

Games are supposed to deliver a moderate stress test on decision making, logical thinking, eye hand coordination, data input entry at exact times or at least tests on quick reaction. There are difficulty settings for a reason and there are learning curves for a reason. If a game continues being casual, other people will seek challenge elsewhere hence DE lose clients that can be potential customers of your game. 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Felsagger

[Felsagger]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

 

Cyberpunk will be under the microscope by a large part of the player community since it is a longstanding frenchise. If they fail to stand true to the frenchise they will lose alot of players quickly. I just hope they manage to get the multiplayer implemented in time for release, otherwise I'll wait to pick it up till it is in. I'm also not really sure what 3 games that are completely different to Warframe would have to do with the future of Warframe. You are reasoning even worse than the people that went "Anthem, WF killer!" and "Destiny 2, WF killer!", "Division 2, WF killer!" and then a second time "Destiny 2, WF killer!" when it released "free" on Steam. Those games were atleast multiplayer looter shooters.

But what would the 3 mentioned above have to offer if someone is looking for WF? Out of the 3 mentioned atleast two are heavily story driven, Ghost I dont know about since I dont really follow console exclusives, still it will be single player only.

 

You have zero reading skills in that numb brain of yours or you are baiting on purpose for arguments because your basement is a boring place to look at. Check                

"For this discussion will be eternal like the burden of keeping up with the stakes of the next generation of open world games." General standards will increase since the tendency will be the open world game. The market is shifting in that direction. There is no comparison of those games with War Frame, they are completely different. 

 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Felsagger

[SneakyErvin]

10 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

Both of you nubs can't play other games that requires skill and thinking. Check. (last two posts)

 

If games are not based on any type of skill then what is the point of playing them? Playing chess in easy mode is not playing chess at all. Or having two queens while the other adversary has nights and pawns is not a match. 

Games are supposed to deliver a moderate stress test on decision making, logical thinking, eye hand coordination, data input entry at exact times or at least tests on quick reaction. There are difficulty settings for a reason and there are learning curves for a reason. If a game continues being casual, other people will seek challenge elsewhere hence DE lose clients that can be potential customers of your game. 

And how is any of this an opposite of what was said exactly?

Enialyx says, increase difficulty but keep casual options aswell. I say spot on post. Felsagger says that isnt what we need, instead we need challenge. But that is exactly what was said, that we need difficulty for those that want it. 

Yeesh man, you are so confusing.

[Felsagger]

1 minute ago, SneakyErvin said:

And how is any of this an opposite of what was said exactly?

Enialyx says, increase difficulty but keep casual options aswell. I say spot on post. Felsagger says that isnt what we need, instead we need challenge. But that is exactly what was said, that we need difficulty for those that want it. 

Yeesh man, you are so confusing.

You agreed with "I couldn't care less about any "hard mode" ". 

 

You don't care at all about the quality of the skilled based game. Just look at your own profile. No wonder why. 

[SneakyErvin]

2 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

 

You have zero reading skills in that numb brain of yours or you are baiting on purpose for arguments because your basement is a boring place to look at.                    Check

"For this discussion will be eternal like the burden of keeping up with the stakes of the next generation of open world games." General standards will increase since the tendency will be the open world game. The market is shifting in that direction. There is no comparison of those games with War Frame, they are completely different. 

 

You still make zero sense. You directly drew a connection between open world games and WF in your pervious post. That it would be a burden to keep up with next gen open world games. Warframe is Warframe, is has no burderns when it comes to keeping up with next gen open world games. You also forget that what is to be next gen on consoles has already started a good while back on PC and there has been no impact on WF because of that. So this game is already doing fine in that area of competition. Or did you think consoles are what sets the standard for next gen releases?

[SneakyErvin]

3 minutes ago, Felsagger said:

You agreed with "I couldn't care less about any "hard mode" ". 

You don't care at all about the quality of the skilled based game. Just look at your own profile. No wonder why. 

No I said it was the most sensible and reasonable post in the thread. Since even if he doesnt care for it, he still sees the need for it and thinks that it should get added. 

I hope english isnt your native language since you really lack comprehension of context and meaning.

[Felsagger]

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

You still make zero sense.

The kettle talking. 

Just now, SneakyErvin said:

 

You directly drew a connection between open world games and WF in your pervious post. That it would be a burden to keep up with next gen open world games. Warframe is Warframe, is has no burderns when it comes to keeping up with next gen open world games. You also forget that what is to be next gen on consoles has already started a good while back on PC and there has been no impact on WF because of that. So this game is already doing fine in that area of competition. Or did you think consoles are what sets the standard for next gen releases?

Yep you are dense. 

I simply mentioned my interest and the burden of progress that the industry will face on next generation games. PCs already has the technology that PS5 and Series X will have. The ceiling is not an issue but the floor or minimum requirements will increase for everybody. This is why there is a generation leap. I never related War Frame with that burden.  

[Felsagger]

9 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

No I said it was the most sensible and reasonable post in the thread. Since even if he doesnt care for it, he still sees the need for it and thinks that it should get added. 

You said "We need oldschool arpg mechanics added to warframe"

You don't care for better A.I., you don't care for enemy engagement, you don't care for the health and the long run of the game. You simply get satisfied with a  cheap shot of harder enemies with more shields, armor and health. 

 

Quote

I hope english isnt your native language since you really lack comprehension of context and meaning.

Keep throwing your jabs, tiger. We are all aware about your numb brain and your selective reading. The English's mock attempt doesn't work. 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Felsagger

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, Felsagger said:

The kettle talking. 

Yep you are dense. 

I simply mentioned my interest and the burden of progress that the industry will face on next generation games. PCs already has the technology that PS5 and Series X will have. The ceiling is not an issue but the floor or minimum requirements will increase for everybody. This is why there is a generation leap. I never related War Frame with that burden.  

Except that you mentioned WF's appearance on next gen consoles in direct connection to the comment regarding the burden of keeping up with open world games. Maybe you should work on sentence structure? The post where you mention the burden is already hard to figure out what exactly you are trying to say.

Quote

War Frame seems will do an appearance on the list of PS5 games. For this discussion will be eternal like the burden of keeping up with the stakes of the next generation of open world games.

That right there is straight from your post. And the english in that part looks like auto translate done by google. So if you tried to say something else that had no connection between the mention of WF and the open world part you should probably stress down and take some time and structure it properly so people can read it clearly.

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, Felsagger said:

You said "We need oldschool arpg mechanics added to warframe"

You don't care for better A.I., you don't care for enemy engagement, you don't care for the health and the long run of the game. You simply get satisfied with a  cheap shot of harder enemies with more shields, armor and health. 

And with that comment it is 100% clear that you've never touched an arpg in your life, if that is what you think when people say "arpg mechanics". No wonder you keep bringing up doom and titanfall 2.

[Felsagger]

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Except that you mentioned WF's appearance on next gen consoles in direct connection to the comment regarding the burden of keeping up with open world games. Maybe you should work on sentence structure? The post where you mention the burden is already hard to figure out what exactly you are trying to say.

 

No, you are making up that connection. I never related War Frame to that burden. I simply expressed my happiness about those two games and my excitement for the next gen trends. You are pulling the wrong conclusions yourself. The post is clear. 

 

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

That right there is straight from your post. And the english in that part looks like auto translate done by google. So if you tried to say something else that had no connection between the mention of WF and the open world part you should probably stress down and take some time and structure it properly so people can read it clearly.

Sorry but your excuse doesn't work. In that post I never related War Frame with that burden. You came here misconstruing my posts. 

[Felsagger]

6 minutes ago, DeMonkey said:

Hey now, what's wrong with the English?

LMAO. Good one. 

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, Felsagger said:

 

No, you are making up that connection. I never related War Frame to that burden. I simply expressed my happiness about those two games and my excitement for the next gen trends. You are pulling the wrong conclusions yourself. The post is clear. 

 

Sorry but your excuse doesn't work. In that post I never related War Frame with that burden. You came here misconstruing my posts. 

Your post is untouched in my original post, you may wanna look there since it is the exact same as I provided above, with WF being mentioned as a next gen console candidate followed by talk of keeping up with the burden of the stakes(?) of next gen open world games. Since the open world talk directly follows the mention of WF as a next gen candidate, it looks like you refer to WF having burdens keeping up with next gen open world games.

[Felsagger]

7 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

And with that comment it is 100% clear that you've never touched an arpg in your life, if that is what you think when people say "arpg mechanics". No wonder you keep bringing up doom and titanfall 2.

 

And for your surprise, I haven't. See? I admit that I don't have any experience because I consider them boring unlike you who spent 30 pages arguing in a PVP thread when you had zero experience playing PvP in War Frame. 

[SneakyErvin]

Just now, Felsagger said:

And for your surprise, I haven't. See? I admit that I don't have any experience because I consider them boring unlike you who spent 30 pages arguing in a PVP thread when you had zero experience playing PvP in War Frame. 

So you have no experience with the genre at all and you compare it with my extremely limited experience with a specific mode that I have over 20 years of experience with in general, both in very competative and more casual settings.

But it is good to know that your idea of arpg mechanics = increased hp, shields and armor. That means all games with scaling levels and increased enemy durability are now arpgs by the Felsagger definitions. For someone "studying" games you seem to run a risk failing that class.

[Felsagger]

4 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Your post is untouched in my original post, you may wanna look there since it is the exact same as I provided above, with WF being mentioned as a next gen console candidate followed by talk of keeping up with the burden of the stakes(?) of next gen open world games. Since the open world talk directly follows the mention of WF as a next gen candidate, it looks like you refer to WF having burdens keeping up with next gen open world games.

And that is the good thing because there is no relation of one thing with the other. You made that up because you are always playing antagonist with my posts for the sake of it. 

Pretty simple, I'm excited because the minimum standards will increase and the burden of open world games will be a standard for the next iteration of consoles due to the SSD among other things. That is it. 

 

Edit: Waits for the next post saying "Last word". 

Edited May 30, 2020 by Felsagger

[SneakyErvin]

1 minute ago, Felsagger said:

And that is the good thing because there is no relation of one thing with the other. You made that up because you are always playing antagonist with my posts for the sake of it. 

Pretty simple, I'm excited because the minimum standards will increase and the burden of open world games will be a standard for the next iteration of consoles due to the SSD among other things. That is it. 

See, that makes it so much easier to actually understand the point you are trying to make.

[Felsagger]

4 hours ago, Enialyx said:

Personally, I couldn't care less about any "hard mode". I'm a power fantasy casual and that's how I stay. However, I have absolutely nothing against other people having hard difficulty.

Honestly, you can never please all players with just one difficulty setting. Calling it "balance" won't change this. Some want it easier, some harder. The only way to solve this is different difficulty modes (the best being modular difficulty) or missions of varying difficulty. And doing it so neither casuals or hardcores are left without content.

 

I'm fine with all that but people are searching for an immersible experience where there is a degree of believability on these encounters. Yes, War Frame should not be like Dark Souls games. But in any book an enemy should pose a threat or punish players for his mistakes. This provides an 'engagement' environment instead of a predisposed mindset where the player is confident of winning all the time. 

[Kimimoto]

On 2020-05-17 at 5:32 PM, (XB1)TyeGoo said:

Fully agree, people should just accept the direction of the game instead of trying to turn it into dark souls 4, while basically pissing off the majority of players.

Warframe won't survive if the majority is gone. 

 

On 2020-05-17 at 5:28 PM, Gabbynaru said:

Good. Let's drop this charade then and let this be the wonderful power fantasy that it is instead of trying to "balance" it and take all the fun out in the process.

Wow, I've never met anyone so wrong and fear mongering so much, is this FOX news?