Int/Rad ONLY

[Scar.brother.help.me]

There is no point to use any levels in between when we open relics.

When we need a common drop - we use intact

When we need uncommon or rare - we use radiant relics

There is no better way to get uncommon drop than from a radiant relic. What is the point of the exceptional and flawless?

Flawless could be buffed in a way that Uncommon drop chance was equal to radiant but no buff to rare item chance. 

Exceptional - this could be removed completely or stay as it is (who cares).

 

[krc473]

1 hour ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

What is the point of the exceptional and flawless?

To dilute other loot pools? They are awarded for some mission objectives. I do agree that they feel pointless. DE just needs to review the drop chances to make sure everything has a use (or offer an incentive to use them).

[Avienas]

1 hour ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

There is no point to use any levels in between when we open relics.

When we need a common drop - we use intact

When we need uncommon or rare - we use radiant relics

There is no better way to get uncommon drop than from a radiant relic. What is the point of the exceptional and flawless?

Flawless could be buffed in a way that Uncommon drop chance was equal to radiant but no buff to rare item chance. 

Exceptional - this could be removed completely or stay as it is (who cares).

Oh hello thar, welcome to the feedback section aka the whambulance section, where we continue to air what we believe are critical elements that need to be fixed on warframe yet it gets ignored like many things. Where apparently big named content creators can point things out for years and get basically nary a peep on the fixes and yet some person can whine on social media and ruin something like universal medallion.

But seriously, tis is not the first time i have seen people complain about fissures and i have been one of the many who have voiced all the issues present in fissures and likely some additional details that i believe some do not point out but is also just as much of a flaw. But just to sum a few:

1. Yes, the refining system on fissures is utter garbage, its either go clean on the relic or go full on polished, No point to use the middles and at this point, it only exists for a poor system of `deep farming` endless content, which we already got things like Heists, elite sanctuary onslaught and many others if we wanted to skip having to use traces on relics to get radiant relics. On that note...
2. SO many things about the void trace functionality of the fissure system is just as much of a garbage heap, No scaling on traces based on relic tier, relic refinement, no GENERAL boost based on party size for trace gain, just a random bonus amount of people pick your relics. A rather useless waiting till the 3rd rotation then going a full 5 rotation before you can do another 3 outta 5 rotation to hit mini boosters, which barely amount to any due to the wild variance on void traces itself, which it should be tightening the minimum trace value & boosting the maximum value PER wave, not on the 3rd round then every 5th round after that. Plain and simple, This is probably one of the most retarded elements of the fissure system that needs to be amongst the top three or atleast the first of the three elements that D.E. needs to address as part of a upcoming QoL patch to FROCKING, FIX, THE. GAME. Instead of dolling out content that can honestly be written as another glorified survival/exterminate/etc. game mode again.
3. Lets not even get started on the fact that the approach to get reactants is flawed in itself since it requires you to wait for enemies to become corrupted which is a slap in the face on efficient strats to clear missions and can end up throttling regular patterns for several minutes just to have enough enemies get corrupted. Kind of why it would just be WAY easier if D.E. just replaced all the enemies with corrupted from the start, just like how invasions, kuva lich nodes and many others have been doing for a while. That way people can play like how they normally would on any other mission, the NORMAL way, with a different faction, that could be more difficult for the average player.
4. The fact we do not have a real end-game type of element for fissures like being able to do a high level version of fissure where we can open multiple relics at the same time per wave or something similar, preferably having no tier restriction anymore, call it a elitism card, but i rather enjoy it when a game allows a method to maximize the reward of a particular element by letting me take on a higher difficulty, while sticking with what said system is about.
5. The fact relic fissure tiers rely on a spotty random as EFF mission randomizer when rng-sus elements like that can make us either have to wait hours for a decent fissure to be able to farm to show up, enjoy a good farm or try to suffer thru extremely tedious fissure farming nodes like mobile defense, interception(when you cant get a full group) and a few others i honestly cant recall. Would just be nice if they kept them in the VOID, like how void keys did it and the void could of kept its special reason(s) for existing, such as how it was basically one of the more difficult pieces of content back in the day, especially with enemies having i believe a +200% dmg bonus compared to normal on those void node. Now its just a typical ez mode farm just like the rest of the solar map missions. 
6. Oh here`s one more i almost forgot to state: They need to remove the relic sharing b.s. fiasco. Let each player equip WHATEVER relic they want, they get 3 rolls on every relic they open regardless of party size, maybe give them a 4th roll on their own relic if the party size is 3 or 4 people, but otherwise its only on ROLLS for your own relic and no one elses. Current version on this tidbit just makes people rely on running the exact same relic to maximize drop rates on a specific part more and yet seems to just promote people not caring about bringing a stock of them, which leads to annoying farming cycles, especially on new primes, Plus lets not get started when newer players have to get certain primes, but because its not the NEWEST prime, they get to have a bit more frustration on trying to get those parts, especially if they do not want to spend platinum, but have difficulty on finding people to run with the same relic, just to hope they get the parts on a drop sooner, then having to spend days just to get one or two parts or an entire set.

Anyway i could keep going on and on but i think i put the point out that the entire Fissure system needs a revamp for more ways then one.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Avienas

[Scar.brother.help.me]

22 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Oh hello thar, welcome to the feedback section aka the whambulance section, where we continue to air what we believe are critical elements that need to be fixed on warframe yet it gets ignored like many things. Where apparently big named content creators can point things out for years and get basically nary a peep on the fixes and yet some person can whine on social media and ruin something like universal medallion.

But seriously, tis is not the first time i have seen people complain about fissures and i have been one of the many who have voiced all the issues present in fissures and likely some additional details that i believe some do not point out but is also just as much of a flaw. But just to sum a few:

1. Yes, the refining system on fissures is utter garbage, its either go clean on the relic or go full on polished, No point to use the middles and at this point, it only exists for a poor system of `deep farming` endless content, which we already got things like Heists, elite sanctuary onslaught and many others if we wanted to skip having to use traces on relics to get radiant relics. On that note...
2. SO many things about the void trace functionality of the fissure system is just as much of a garbage heap, No scaling on traces based on relic tier, relic refinement, no GENERAL boost based on party size for trace gain, just a random bonus amount of people pick your relics. A rather useless waiting till the 3rd rotation then going a full 5 rotation before you can do another 3 outta 5 rotation to hit mini boosters, which barely amount to any due to the wild variance on void traces itself, which it should be tightening the minimum trace value & boosting the maximum value PER wave, not on the 3rd round then every 5th round after that. Plain and simple, This is probably one of the most retarded elements of the fissure system that needs to be amongst the top three or atleast the first of the three elements that D.E. needs to address as part of a upcoming QoL patch to FROCKING, FIX, THE. GAME. Instead of dolling out content that can honestly be written as another glorified survival/exterminate/etc. game mode again.
3. Lets not even get started on the fact that the approach to get reactants is flawed in itself since it requires you to wait for enemies to become corrupted which is a slap in the face on efficient strats to clear missions and can end up throttling regular patterns for several minutes just to have enough enemies get corrupted. Kind of why it would just be WAY easier if D.E. just replaced all the enemies with corrupted from the start, just like how invasions, kuva lich nodes and many others have been doing for a while. That way people can play like how they normally would on any other mission, the NORMAL way, with a different faction, that could be more difficult for the average player.
4. The fact we do not have a real end-game type of element for fissures like being able to do a high level version of fissure where we can open multiple relics at the same time per wave or something similar, preferably having no tier restriction anymore, call it a elitism card, but i rather enjoy it when a game allows a method to maximize the reward of a particular element by letting me take on a higher difficulty, while sticking with what said system is about.
5. The fact relic fissure tiers rely on a spotty random as EFF mission randomizer when rng-sus elements like that can make us either have to wait hours for a decent fissure to be able to farm to show up, enjoy a good farm or try to suffer thru extremely tedious fissure farming nodes like mobile defense, interception(when you cant get a full group) and a few others i honestly cant recall. Would just be nice if they kept them in the VOID, like how void keys did it and the void could of kept its special reason(s) for existing, such as how it was basically one of the more difficult pieces of content back in the day, especially with enemies having i believe a +200% dmg bonus compared to normal on those void node. Now its just a typical ez mode farm just like the rest of the solar map missions. 
6. Oh here`s one more i almost forgot to state: They need to remove the relic sharing b.s. fiasco. Let each player equip WHATEVER relic they want, they get 3 rolls on every relic they open regardless of party size, maybe give them a 4th roll on their own relic if the party size is 3 or 4 people, but otherwise its only on ROLLS for your own relic and no one elses. Current version on this tidbit just makes people rely on running the exact same relic to maximize drop rates on a specific part more and yet seems to just promote people not caring about bringing a stock of them, which leads to annoying farming cycles, especially on new primes, Plus lets not get started when newer players have to get certain primes, but because its not the NEWEST prime, they get to have a bit more frustration on trying to get those parts, especially if they do not want to spend platinum, but have difficulty on finding people to run with the same relic, just to hope they get the parts on a drop sooner, then having to spend days just to get one or two parts or an entire set.

Anyway i could keep going on and on but i think i put the point out that the entire Fissure system needs a revamp for more ways then one.

If I saw your thread I'd just support you instead of making this.

[Nichivo]

3 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

There is no point to use any levels in between when we open relics.

When we need a common drop - we use intact

When we need uncommon or rare - we use radiant relics

There is no better way to get uncommon drop than from a radiant relic. What is the point of the exceptional and flawless?

Flawless could be buffed in a way that Uncommon drop chance was equal to radiant but no buff to rare item chance. 

Exceptional - this could be removed completely or stay as it is (who cares).

 

Do I really have to explain how this is flawed?

If you are planning a ducat farm. You will get faster, and better results opening a relic with no forma, that is flawless, in a group of 4 people doing the same. If you take time to actually do the math it's just slightly less ducats per relic on average then using radiants, but you can open twice as many.

Let us not destroy ducat farming because someone failed math.

 

 

[Avienas]

8 hours ago, Scar.brother.help.me said:

If I saw your thread I'd just support you instead of making this.

This is me just venting out the usual steam for being on warframe for so long and now that PSO2 now has an official NA server, it feels like a major letdown when i see that the NA team for Sega is straight up going to compound 8 YEARS, worth of content to be released over a span of 6 months, yet Warframe feels like it is still doing bare nudge alongs to fixes that been requested even back in the early days of gameplay. I mean, anyone think that D.E. even remembers people still want universal vaccuum, universal radar, An overhaul on the pet system so they are more then just buff bots & memes, the need to revamp so many systems that its pointless to even list them out these days, when D.E. could say they are working on them and then stays silent about it for a long time and we get more things that need to be fixed, before the previously requested things can ever be fixed?

Regardless of the sizes of the company, both games being basically 8 years old speaks volumes on what has changed for the game for the most part. Since it does not help that warframe many so-called new content drops & screw ups with recent updates have made any refreshing improvements to warframe be entirely forgotten, especially if certain changes even ruined said improvements or created a perverted version of it, such the case with going from Void keys to relics and then getting worst versions of them in the form of kuva fissures.

Anyway, D.E. pretty much show`d its hand with Deadlock protocol on PC with the new game mode looking like yet another sanctuary onslaught like game mode, cept your stuck using a specific melee weapon only, With it just being a big old let down on it just feeling like them doing the same thing again while attempting to look like how the old updates again. Barely anything to fixes to the game and nothing impressive enough to warrant the game to be super enjoyable again, especially with a load of things that i believe the community are still demanding for and likely will just be ignored for years again, till d.e. has barely any players left and it still feels like they wont address said things still.

So guess im gonna just get thru this season`s nightwave, get thru Nezha prime likely next month, get thru the console deadlock protocol content, hit MR29 and just drop warframe again for good this time and let returning to Phantasy Star Online 2, this time on the NA server, be what satisfies my space looter itches, that warframe kind of been failing todo for quite some time, despite it had dragged me back twice from certain content drops making it appealing, but clearly that felt more like bait now these days.

I 

[Avienas]

6 hours ago, Nichivo said:

Do I really have to explain how this is flawed?

If you are planning a ducat farm. You will get faster, and better results opening a relic with no forma, that is flawless, in a group of 4 people doing the same. If you take time to actually do the math it's just slightly less ducats per relic on average then using radiants, but you can open twice as many.

Let us not destroy ducat farming because someone failed math.

Calling a pawn shop a farm and treating Baro ki`teer the same as Xur from Destiny is flawed math in itself. Because you could atleast get coins back in D1 and legendary shards in Destiny 2 in so many ways, that it was not really an issue to obtain a stock to do said shopping. With warframe its just one specific game mode that is flawed in itself an D.E. had the big brain logic to copy-paste that system on what is already 3+ effective complicated systems...

Just to obtain a fine example of power creeping gear, stuck with rngsus to obtain the relic to rngsus to obtain the specific kill codes to rngsus to discover which order of slots of the rngsus on which of the 8 in each of those slots is. Oh did i forget about the rngsus of what elements the lich is weak to(or worst, RESISTANT/IMMUNE to), the rngsus chance of it spawning, the rngsus on what mission types said fissures are on for both regular/kuva and so many other fiascos, that im just repeating the same issues over and over again?

Ultimately, many elements on warframe has become just such a rng-sus dependency on so many rng-sus factors, that i feel that warframe clearly has an addiction to rng-sus elements that it almost feels like D.E. does not want to reduce them in fear it will make the game less time-consuming, but likely requires being more creative on bringing in new content, then what feels more like another sanctuary onslaught rehash, Atleast things like Index & Sanctuary onslaught has a solid place for existing beyond chasing b.s. drop table goods.

Overall, I am honestly sick of people using the excuse of baro`kiteer as one excuse on why farming prime parts is such a tedious slog, just as much as people using the excuse of market chat for b.s. drop tables rates, the existence of riven mods(and the market scummery surrounding them) and many other elements that would be unacceptable in games that use a standard marketing system, even if said system uses premium currency for trading also.

Edited June 17, 2020 by Avienas

[Nichivo]

27 minutes ago, Avienas said:

 I am honestly sick of people using the excuse of baro`kiteer as one excuse on why farming prime parts is such a tedious slog, just as much as people using the excuse of market chat for b.s. drop tables rates, the existence of riven mods(and the market scummery surrounding them) and many other elements that would be unacceptable in games that use a standard marketing system, even if said system uses premium currency for trading also.

What are you on about?  It's free plat, and free decorations, for next to no time invested. Especially if there is a capture up, even if you are slow as molasses say 2 minutes per capture that is 30 relic an hour, at an average of 53+ ducats per relic that is 1500 ducats in roughly one hour. How is that tedious? I am not a fan of rng especially when it's done poorly. The relic system however is not a huge issue, and certainly not tedious.

You seriously come off as lazy, and entitled. If you hate the game so much, play something that gives you everything with no time invested.

All Lich are total push overs.

[sam686]

I do halfway agree as exceptional relic are mostly useless. But then again, exceptional rewards from endless bonus relics opened missions can be upgraded with 25 fewer void trace cost.

Then, there are some relics with 1 Forma blueprint as uncommon, really? (Meso C4, Meso C5, Neo M3) Just put in 45 ducats or forma bundle blueprint as uncommon.

We have limited void traces, can't always use radiant all the time. Half radiant and half intact is less chance of uncommon drops, then all flawless for the same number of relics opened. Upgrade from intact to radiant cost 100 void traces, flawless cost 50 void traces. I frequently use flawless in void fissure matchmaking missions and got plenty of uncommon prime items, but not wasting void traces on relics with uncommon forma.

For rare drops it may work better with half radiant and half intact for better chance of 1 rare.

I hope my numbers are all correct, I might have made a mistakes on one or more numbers.

With 2 relics, 100 void traces, average chance:
2 flawless relics: 34% ( 17% ) uncommon, 6% rare
1 flawless + 1 intact: 31% (15.5%) uncommon, 6% rare

With 4 relics, 100 void traces, average chance:
4 Exceptional relics: 26% ( 13% ) uncommon, 4% rare
3 intact + 1 radiant: 26.5%(13.25%)uncommon, 4% rare
2 flawless + 2 intact: 28% ( 14% ) uncommon, 4% rare

Possibility to get 0, 1, or 2 rares:
2 flawless: 2 rares 0.36%, 1 rare 11.28%, no rare 88.36%
1 int + 1 rad: 2 rares 0.2%, 1 rare 11.6%, no rare 88.2%

Possibility to get 0, 1, or 2 of any uncommons:
2 flawless: 2 uncommon 11.56%, 1 uncommon 44.88%, no uncommon 43.56%
1 int + 1 rad: 2 uncommon 8.8%, 1 uncommon 44.4%, no uncommon 46.8%

Possibility to get 0, 1, or 2 of a specific uncommon:
2 flawless: 2 specific uncommon 2.89%, 1 specific 28.22%, no specific 68.89%
1 int + 1 rad: 2 specific uncommon 2.2%, 1 specific 26.6%, no specific 71.2%

The formula for no rare: (1-0.10)*(1-0.02)=0.882 or 88.2%
The formula for 2 rares: 0.10*0.02=0.002 or 0.2%

[Avienas]

14 hours ago, Nichivo said:

What are you on about?  It's free plat, and free decorations, for next to no time invested. Especially if there is a capture up, even if you are slow as molasses say 2 minutes per capture that is 30 relic an hour, at an average of 53+ ducats per relic that is 1500 ducats in roughly one hour. How is that tedious? I am not a fan of rng especially when it's done poorly. The relic system however is not a huge issue, and certainly not tedious.

You seriously come off as lazy, and entitled. If you hate the game so much, play something that gives you everything with no time invested.

All Lich are total push overs.

Its less about being lazy & entitled but more along the lines of having to do what is effectively the same thing over and over again while over reliance on something as simple as people using the same relics as you if you want to chase a specific part or in cases of `pug farming ducats`. Pray people actually stay around long enough and always using relics that contain more parts and no forma if i desire ducats or when i need to stock forma, hope that people are running relics with bronze forma instead. 

Plus again i rather not use the excuse of `earning plat`, to act as a milestone on a ingame system, that itself is a lazy metric to chase after...

Not to mention there is the headache of needing to take what could be on average, half an hour just to get around 100 traces just to slightly UP the odds of getting better stuff, ON A SINGLE ITEM, which basically turned into ENTITLEMENT in itself, since most will flick you the burd if you do not run a radiant relic when the goal is to get a specific silver/gold part, Too bad most recruit chat pugs are also too lazy and think they are entitled to EARN said specific part in just a single round, despite the rules of rng-sus based mechanics state its better to bring a damn stock and be prepared todo multiple rolls to begin with.

Plus you think 1500 ducats in one hour is good amount? When i am talking about ducat farms, i tend to speak in the macros typically on mass stocking boosters, with about 2 weeks worth being a light amount and my bigger stock ups when i had care to warframe going as far as 60 days worth or covering what could be up to 3-6 baro`s worth of goods because i do not like to dedicate multiple days a week towards farming one specific game mode just to have a stock prepared, effectively each and every week. whether i know or know not what baro brings,especially when d.e. can pull a burd to console and decide that console players should get a different table then what PC players got randomly, which can be rather annoying when they even change the boosters to boot.

Plus its not the fact Liches are hard, its the fact its frocking tedious to jump thru a bunch of hoops just for a specific weapon, just to then jump thru more hoops to get the exact same weapon AGAIN, just to jump thru the hoops to get more copies, just to max a likely meaningless increase in bonus value. Where the other reward still has no fking value except turning into another glorified riven market, by selling off the liches, likely chump change now due to people down cutting the value of liches and demanding what could be 45% or higher weapons and have them have specific ephies, for what likely be only double digit plat.

Plus i am already playing something else its called PSO2, doesnt mean i wont be working towards wheening myself away from warframe again since D.E. hasn`t hit that major piss off moment yet which helps to really let me disconnect asap from the game again.

Granted, there was a certain incident that occur which you could likely find if you bounce around, which definitely left an even worst impression on the company itself, which likely does not help on how they also been slogging along on QoL fix focuses, besides the list of `minor bug fixes` that seem to get crammed at the bottom of each patch nodes and most are just tl;dr stuff.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Avienas

[Nichivo]

7 minutes ago, Avienas said:

Its less about being lazy & entitled but more along the lines of having to do what is effectively the same thing over and over again while over reliance on something as simple as people using the same relics as you if you want to chase a specific part or in cases of `pug farming ducats`. Pray people actually stay around long enough and always using relics that contain more parts and no forma if i desire ducats or when i need to stock forma, hope that people are running relics with bronze forma instead. 

Plus again i rather not use the excuse of `earning plat`, to act as a milestone on a ingame system, that itself is a lazy metric to chase after...

Not to mention there is the headache of needing to take what could be on average, half an hour just to get around 100 traces just to slightly UP the odds of getting better stuff, ON A SINGLE ITEM, which basically turned into ENTITLEMENT in itself, since most will flick you the burd if you do not run a radiant relic when the goal is to get a specific silver/gold part, Too bad most recruit chat pugs are also too lazy and think they are entitled to EARN said specific part in just a single round, despite the rules of rng-sus based mechanics state its better to bring a damn stock and be prepared todo multiple rolls to begin with.

Plus you think 1500 ducats in one hour is good amount? When i am talking about ducat farms, i tend to speak in the macros typically on mass stocking boosters, with about 2 weeks worth being a light amount and my bigger stock ups when i had care to warframe going as far as 60 days worth or covering what could be up to 3-6 baro`s worth of goods because i do not like to dedicate multiple days a week towards farming one specific game mode just to have a stock prepared, effectively each and every week. whether i know or know not what baro brings,especially when d.e. can pull a burd to console and decide that console players should get a different table then what PC players got randomly, which can be rather annoying when they even change the boosters to boot.

Plus its not the fact Liches are hard, its the fact its frocking tedious to jump thru a bunch of hoops just for a specific weapon, just to then jump thru more hoops to get the exact same weapon AGAIN, just to jump thru the hoops to get more copies, just to max a likely meaningless increase in bonus value. Where the other reward still has no fking value except turning into another glorified riven market, by selling off the liches, likely chump change now due to people down cutting the value of liches and demanding what could be 45% or higher weapons and have them have specific ephies, for what likely be only double digit plat.

Plus i am already playing something else its called PSO2, doesnt mean i wont be working towards wheening myself away from warframe again since D.E. hasn`t hit that major piss off moment yet which helps to really let me disconnect asap from the game again.

Granted, there was a certain incident that occur which you could likely find if you bounce around, which definitely left an even worst impression on the company itself, which likely does not help on how they also been slogging along on QoL fix focuses, besides the list of `minor bug fixes` that seem to get crammed at the bottom of each patch nodes and most are just tl;dr stuff.

Never had any of these issues. Half hour for a hundreds traces? WTF are you doing? It doesn't take even close to that to farm traces. 

Lich are not tedious. go back in time and try farming 6 characters full T6 gear before the Blacktemple was nerfed if you want to know what tedious feels like.

Your last paragraph is cryptic, because of that it's also rather pointless, even though I know what you are hinting about. If you want to continue bashing DE... Do so alone!

[Avienas]

8 hours ago, Nichivo said:

Never had any of these issues. Half hour for a hundreds traces? WTF are you doing? It doesn't take even close to that to farm traces. 

Lich are not tedious. go back in time and try farming 6 characters full T6 gear before the Blacktemple was nerfed if you want to know what tedious feels like.

Your last paragraph is cryptic, because of that it's also rather pointless, even though I know what you are hinting about. If you want to continue bashing DE... Do so alone!

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Void_Traces

Just got back from work so im a bit half tired so let me go over some small details, it takes roughly on average 5 minutes to clear a round, if we were to especially include load in, extract times and other micro bits. the min-max trace value without taking advantage of resource boosters or smeeta is 6-30. Which means at about 6 rounds the variability on how many you can get per run will range between 36-180. Which the latter is only if your LUCKY enough to land high numbers more often then naught, Which never really is the case, so its better to treat it can take hours just to have enough traces for one radiant relic, with it only pushed by intentionally running boosters bought with plat or convient timed baro boosters and another rng-sus mechanic landing its 2 minute or so window buff, just when you are picking up your 10th reactant.

WHICH LETS BE HONEST AGAIN, you should be preparing atleast 5 radiant relics if you plan to get a silver/gold specific part, thru a pre-made group, to optimize your odds as best as possible, But still likely know the odds are most likely just gonna be a fk ton of bronzes anyway, which the only other alternative would be to take worst odds solo and likely need to prepare a dozen or so radiant relics AND STILL, have way worst odds in comparison.

 

Also for fks sake i clearly need to list out the chart on everything involved with kuva liches:

1. Before you even start hunting liches, You typically want to get a hoarde of parazon R.mods first, because SURE, you can stab thralls, but what about the case if the lich shows up while you dont have a full parazon mod setup? You honestly do not want to skip it since a lich spawn is what you want on attempts to get major progress, figure which parazon mods go where much quicker and of course SPAWN, MORE, DAMN, THRALL FARMING nodes,  Then having to camp other peoples nodes cause some had the retarded idea to keep skipping liches, bleed out all the control nodes and be unable to have any control nodes they can spawn the lich on.
2. But to get said mods you have to spam the fk out of kuva siphons which only has a CHANCe to drop them and floods which are an annoyance after having to chase what might be a dozen or more relic stock and having a relic for each of the 4 so you can get all 8 mods so you dont need to stop hunting the lich to fetch MORE mods.
3. ACQUIRE a lich targeting you, More specifically: Spam a map like cissini till you get the one with the specific weapon you want, before we had that element, people were pissed cause they kept getting stuck with either dupes of trash weapons or even with the so-called no dupe in a row gag, it also got in the way of people who WANTED dupes to max out thar weapon.
4. SPAM farm the crap out of thralls, revel in the fact your building a stock of stupid system R.Relics just to chase R.mods so you dont run out of them when you want to chase multiple liches swiftly.
5. Go thru the enjoyment of constantly stabbing the lich and getting pissed every time you fail the first mod check for what could go up to 5 or even more times and continue the slog thru high level sturdy enemies just to try and force it to spawn so you can hopefully get it right the next time.
6. Keep doing said process over and over again for copies to get a max element ver of a weapon and atleast get the mastery fodder from each of them, Despite the damn fact you need 5 forma on each of them or basically 65 freaking forma to go thru 13 kuva lich weapons (as an example) with likely more will get shoveled in later, cause d.e. does not want to redo the system and make how kuva liches were originally portrayed, A FREAKING NEMESIS, not just some annoying troll who yoinks your stuff, sometimes important things like blueprints, critical currency or in some worse case, a rare mod you wanted for a long time, Liches may not break backs anymore as a way to fk with you, but the loot pinching and them constantly wanting to pop thar damn faces to harass you on your orbiter is certainly just as salt inducing in many ways as another fine example of d.e. failing to make a new system and just turning it into another chore of a burnout grind.

Final end of story: Its a tedious mess of multiple systems that d.e. despite putting a bunch of `improvements towards`. Still has left it into a crap-o-la state, that could of simply been resolved if they did better things like gut out the Kuva fissure and R. mod system and just have us build a gauge to LEARN where the lich is for each tier and maybe have something like the lich may try to escape during the fight and if your skillful enough, you can prevent that and get the lich dead on the first try, otherwise on later attempts of finding said lich, he would not be able to escape as easily, but of course would be more difficult to fight, up to 5 ranks in total.

...Oh and actually give an additional reward, not the OPTION of another reward aka recruiting the lich, a freaking EXTRA bonus then just getting the weapon, like the loot we had stolen was multiplied based on the liches rank, up to 2.5x the amount stolen if the lich was rank 5, with maybe the mutiply bonus for stolen mods could be a pile of endo based on the rarity of the mod, multiplied by the bonus value. Many would agree it is kind of pointless that the lich yoinks our crap, he doesnt make use of it clearly and we dont really get a return value on such a bit of b.s. fluff element which is just as guilty of being a salt inducer as the fking lich doing the Bane breaks the Bat`s back meme`.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Avienas

[Nichivo]

2 hours ago, Avienas said:

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Void_Traces

Just got back from work so im a bit half tired so let me go over some small details, it takes roughly on average 5 minutes to clear a round, if we were to especially include load in, extract times and other micro bits. the min-max trace value without taking advantage of resource boosters or smeeta is 6-30. Which means at about 6 rounds the variability on how many you can get per run will range between 36-180. Which the latter is only if your LUCKY enough to land high numbers more often then naught, Which never really is the case, so its better to treat it can take hours just to have enough traces for one radiant relic, with it only pushed by intentionally running boosters bought with plat or convient timed baro boosters and another rng-sus mechanic landing its 2 minute or so window buff, just when you are picking up your 10th reactant.

WHICH LETS BE HONEST AGAIN, you should be preparing atleast 5 radiant relics if you plan to get a silver/gold specific part, thru a pre-made group, to optimize your odds as best as possible, But still likely know the odds are most likely just gonna be a fk ton of bronzes anyway, which the only other alternative would be to take worst odds solo and likely need to prepare a dozen or so radiant relics AND STILL, have way worst odds in comparison.

 

Also for fks sake i clearly need to list out the chart on everything involved with kuva liches:

1. Before you even start hunting liches, You typically want to get a hoarde of parazon R.mods first, because SURE, you can stab thralls, but what about the case if the lich shows up while you dont have a full parazon mod setup? You honestly do not want to skip it since a lich spawn is what you want on attempts to get major progress, figure which parazon mods go where much quicker and of course SPAWN, MORE, DAMN, THRALL FARMING nodes,  Then having to camp other peoples nodes cause some had the retarded idea to keep skipping liches, bleed out all the control nodes and be unable to have any control nodes they can spawn the lich on.
2. But to get said mods you have to spam the fk out of kuva siphons which only has a CHANCe to drop them and floods which are an annoyance after having to chase what might be a dozen or more relic stock and having a relic for each of the 4 so you can get all 8 mods so you dont need to stop hunting the lich to fetch MORE mods.
3. ACQUIRE a lich targeting you, More specifically: Spam a map like cissini till you get the one with the specific weapon you want, before we had that element, people were pissed cause they kept getting stuck with either dupes of trash weapons or even with the so-called no dupe in a row gag, it also got in the way of people who WANTED dupes to max out thar weapon.
4. SPAM farm the crap out of thralls, revel in the fact your building a stock of stupid system R.Relics just to chase R.mods so you dont run out of them when you want to chase multiple liches swiftly.
5. Go thru the enjoyment of constantly stabbing the lich and getting pissed every time you fail the first mod check for what could go up to 5 or even more times and continue the slog thru high level sturdy enemies just to try and force it to spawn so you can hopefully get it right the next time.
6. Keep doing said process over and over again for copies to get a max element ver of a weapon and atleast get the mastery fodder from each of them, Despite the damn fact you need 5 forma on each of them or basically 65 freaking forma to go thru 13 kuva lich weapons (as an example) with likely more will get shoveled in later, cause d.e. does not want to redo the system and make how kuva liches were originally portrayed, A FREAKING NEMESIS, not just some annoying troll who yoinks your stuff, sometimes important things like blueprints, critical currency or in some worse case, a rare mod you wanted for a long time, Liches may not break backs anymore as a way to fk with you, but the loot pinching and them constantly wanting to pop thar damn faces to harass you on your orbiter is certainly just as salt inducing in many ways as another fine example of d.e. failing to make a new system and just turning it into another chore of a burnout grind.

Final end of story: Its a tedious mess of multiple systems that d.e. despite putting a bunch of `improvements towards`. Still has left it into a crap-o-la state, that could of simply been resolved if they did better things like gut out the Kuva fissure and R. mod system and just have us build a gauge to LEARN where the lich is for each tier and maybe have something like the lich may try to escape during the fight and if your skillful enough, you can prevent that and get the lich dead on the first try, otherwise on later attempts of finding said lich, he would not be able to escape as easily, but of course would be more difficult to fight, up to 5 ranks in total.

...Oh and actually give an additional reward, not the OPTION of another reward aka recruiting the lich, a freaking EXTRA bonus then just getting the weapon, like the loot we had stolen was multiplied based on the liches rank, up to 2.5x the amount stolen if the lich was rank 5, with maybe the mutiply bonus for stolen mods could be a pile of endo based on the rarity of the mod, multiplied by the bonus value. Many would agree it is kind of pointless that the lich yoinks our crap, he doesnt make use of it clearly and we dont really get a return value on such a bit of b.s. fluff element which is just as guilty of being a salt inducer as the fking lich doing the Bane breaks the Bat`s back meme`.

Wall of nonsense.

Why are you not using smeeta and resource boosters? Oh yeah! Farming anything you can sell for platinum  is tedious even though it can be done while doing other things.

I have all the kuva weapons, and ephemera. You forgot you can trade lich with others as well, for some of that platinum you would have, if not for whining about tedious this, and that. I have more kuva relics then I will ever use over 100 of each. You can casually open them while farming Kuva, and also trade the Requiem mods with others. 3 lich capture, or kills, per requiem mod. I have prenty of those also.

Even though the system isn't perfect(no game is). Again! You come off as lazy, and entitled. I am going to toss really bad at game time management in there also. I have none of these problems you seem to have. I also after spending the vast majority of my Warframe game time doing extended solo runs don't see Lich as high level mobs. In fact now that certain changes have been made. I do not even see real high level enemies as high level anymore either as 3k is the new 300.

Lich steal next to nothing, and you get it all back anyway. I am not even bothered that my current Lich is holding 3 of my eleven corpus relief decorations.

I actually don't know why you even bother playing, since reading your post shows nothing but disdain, and hatred for all parts of the game. 

By the way from a pure gain stand point, running all the same relic is a complete waste, you are better off to do a slow burn, or 1 you want, and 3 trash. this give you more chance for multiple of the same item(generates more platinum) rather then losing them if they all come up at the same time, and only getting one. This guarantees your time invested since, it will generate more platinum from selling parts.

Cracking 4 at a 34% payout is no different, then cracking 4 one at a time, at the same 34% payout each. Only during the latter you do not waste multiple copies of the item. It's no different then flipping a coin it's always going to be the same 50% chance regardless of how many flips.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Nichivo
Typo

[Teridax68]

I'd probably go one step further and suggest we don't even need relic qualities. Different relics for different Prime parts already massively clutters Recruiting chat and splits the playerbase, and different qualities merely amplifies that by dissociating people looking for items on the same relic, just at different rarities. Setting the drop rates to Radiant-level and removing relic qualities could remove one of the pointless layers of grinding that was added to the relic system at its creation, and make the Prime part hunting significantly smoother in the process.

[Avienas]

On 2020-06-18 at 10:45 PM, Teridax68 said:

I'd probably go one step further and suggest we don't even need relic qualities. Different relics for different Prime parts already massively clutters Recruiting chat and splits the playerbase, and different qualities merely amplifies that by dissociating people looking for items on the same relic, just at different rarities. Setting the drop rates to Radiant-level and removing relic qualities could remove one of the pointless layers of grinding that was added to the relic system at its creation, and make the Prime part hunting significantly smoother in the process.

The same could be said for more then just relic qualities, anyway got a good few minutes before i head out to work and felt like dropping a post to kill some time. Shame some people treat dis-taint for a game means hatred of a game, When its only those who are so critical of a game that expresses they show a desire for it to not kill itself over like how many online games due to the companies, especially the devs, decide to chase retarded measures to `make profits` or get extremely lazy on making the game enjoyable. Which of course is what the devs should be actively chasing since player retention for both early and long-timers is how a game even gets to stay profitable at the most basic of levels.

A simple farming system with attention to detail on making it interesting, because its fun will ALWAYS trump a complex tedious grind system. This is why i use Phantasy Star online 2`s gimmicks of Emergency trial where random events can occur during quests which can spice up tedious slogs and they do not require overly complex setups for its daily client order quests to clear. This is kind of where warframe`s nightwave and many of its systems has continued to fail, mainly in the form of Fissures, railjack and kuva liches.

Yet i would say Sanctuary onslaught & arbitations are some-what tolerable and Index is nice because it has a clear cut goal on WHY you are doing it, None of this ridiculous b.s. drop table rates just for what could be effectively a single item only worth chasing in the pool itself. Which of course could be applied to the relic system aka fissures, aka also the randomness on many parts. Where at the very least with the old VOID TOWER/KEY system enemies were always the same faction, reward obtainment did not have extra hoops to deal with (relic sharing and void traces) and in the case of endless missions, you could get more then one item off a single key or you did not need everyone running a key to access the loot.

 

Now if D.E. wants to resolve many things on fissures, here`s a 4 list of simple changes which besides those who just like to white knight, anyone can agree to, as i have repeated many times over on the years for warframe:

1. Reduce Relic quality to just Intact/Radiant. OR BETTER YET, Allow us to dispense up to 100 traces in order to TARGET a specific item on the relic and allow that item to get a huge boost of its chance of it dropping first.
2. Simplify and buff void trace gain, we should not have to intentionally choose between void trace farming or opening relics when doing fissures. Which we should not be using the excuse of smeetas and resource boosters existing to resolve the stuff. Those are bonuses, not MANDATORIES.
3. Get rid of relic sharing, get rid of void trace sharing. Just give us 3 rolls on our relics, 4 if we have a group of 3-4 people and only rolls on our OWN relic. In addition to just gaining a flat % bonus of void traces depending on the size of the group when each relic is opened, end of story.
4. Make all enemies corrupted from the start, they spawn corrupted, period. The fact we have to wait almost half a minute or longer just for a group of enemies to get corrupted ends up happening way too often, resulting in fissure runs can take nearly double to triple the time in plenty of cases, per rotation, because of this stackable delay waits before we kill them for a CHANCE on reactant spawn. Oh plus reactant drop rate could use a major boost too in that regard.

Anyway time to head to work, hope that repeat of me stating the obvious fixes d.e. could of done, which mostly come off as small internal code tweaks, especially since they already have said elements they can tweak between special missions replacing enemy factions and many things that should make it as easy as changing a few small equal sign values to likely address the elements as a whole in most of the cases.

Edited June 22, 2020 by Avienas