Railjack: Give a Captain control over their ship

[Genoscythe]

 

As someone who hosts quite a lot of Railjack missions, I also came across a lot of trolls, toxic crewmates and player who simply did not know how to handle a role properly. From guys who think it's funny wasting artillery charges on fighters, just emptying whe whole store of flux energy into empty space or gunner-seat slackers who didn't budge for the whole mission even if all fighters were destroyed, I came across a lot of bad apples. The experience has not been all-out negative of course, but any player joining your mission can make your run an ordeal if he wants to.

 

The enormous trolling potential of a freely acessible Railjack for crewmen is there, and I really feel the need to be able to block certain functions for my crew. Especially making other able to literally waste your resources by freely using abilites or ammo is troll-friendly. This Is why I suggest that a captain can block/disallow certain functions of their ship for random joins/friends only/public in the Railjack config or in-mission. These optional functions should include, but not be limited to:

EDIT:

------------Most importantly:

- Allow/prohibit artillery use

- Allow/prohibit tac/combat avionic and munitions use for gunners/squadmates <--- this is where a lot of resources can be lost and mission completion can be hindered

-> Even if a Captain would prohibit all those, the crew would still be able to complete all aspect of a mission!

A universal anodyne: Make resource consumption of munitions and flux energy individual for the user. Further elaboration on how exactly it works would be necessary.

-----------Options that cause concerns:

- Allow/prohibit use of gunner role

- Allow/prohibit forge use

- Option to kick a player out of the helm/gunner/artillery

- Option to allow/prohibit railjack exits

 

In a perfect world we wouldn't need this, but people do people things and it would be nice if a Captain at least had control over his own ship and resources. I'm aware that this could also create troll potential for captains, but with people joining, you're on a 3:1 to have one bad apple. Recruiting chat and friends-only might still be the best solution, but one does not always find a crew or have friends online.

Edited June 24, 2020 by Genoscythe

[Savire510]

While i want some limits

making Captain a god inside the Railjack doesnt remove the bad apples. Captain, either maliciously or just by being a noob, can keep the entire team hostage too.

[(XBOX)DA ZACHYZACHY]

15 minutes ago, Savire510 said:

Captain, either maliciously or just by being a noob, can keep the entire team hostage too.

Then host your own session. That’s the drawback. To emphasise you helping, rewards should be slightly boosted for the helpers. However it means you may have to wait a bit longer

[Hixlysss]

Honestly it should boil down to 2 options. The captain can lock any 1 station for their exclusive use, and only the captain can mission select. The fact anyone can jump to any mission is not good as only the captain really knows the capabilities of their ship.

Your idea doesn't even mention the terror that is "troll person with access to the veil brought a buncha earth tier folks to the veil." And...your idea is...too much control. I mean captain can keep people from leaving the ship? That's a bit much.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

While I think we should do some stuff to prevent trolling, I don't think these are good suggestions. Not in a public setting, because the good shouldn't pay for the bad apples. Nor be subject to a troll captain.

We could add personal resource and ammo pools to the RJ stations. Maybe some other ideas. But not this. All it does is empower a captain to be a trolling god and grant him the ability to lock players out of 99% of Railjack. And then you won't have any crew, since players will rather leave than put up with the same boring tasks (sabotaging enemy stations, killing enemy crafts in archwing, etc.). Which means most players will rather host and RJ will become even more of a wasteland island.

I usually join other RJ's, never wasting anything without need, but if I don't find matches I just go wit my own ship. Same if I end up in too many matches with wannabe captains that take paper-built RJ's into the higher levels.

My point is, I only join others because I want to, and in order to be part of a team. Makes things easier even though I can easily solo any given RJ mission. Never will I see a captain as a superior, just as a host. He can leave too, trigger a host migration, chances are I'll just get his/her ship until the mission ends. If the captain asks me to do something, without being toxic, I'll do it. Just the same way a crewmate asks. Because that captain's saving grace is that he/she did have willing players joining him. They can just as easily leave the captain alone and find a new match.

Which is why I always respect my crewmates. And if I encounter any troll I either tell them to stop, or leave once the mission is finished if they weren't reasonable. Report them in extreme cases as well, which fortunately hasn't happened yet.

Bottom line is this: We're all playing a game, and we play it for our personal enjoyment. Take that away from players, and be left with nothing. If we can't improve the system for everyone, instead of improving for some few at the cost of many others, maybe we shouldn't improve. And we can improve it. Just not the suggested way.

 

 

Edited June 24, 2020 by (PS4)Hikuro-93

[Genoscythe]

 

il y a 2 minutes, (PS4)Hikuro-93 a dit :

While I think we should do some stuff to prevent trolling, I don't think these are good suggestions. Not in a public setting, because the good shouldn't pay for the bad apples. Nor be subject to a troll captain.

We could add personal resource and ammo pools to the RJ stations. Maybe some other ideas. But not this. All it does is empower a captain to be a trolling god and grant him the ability to lock players out of 99% of Railjack. And then you won't have any crew, since players will rather leave than put up with the same boring tasks (sabotaging enemy stations, killing enemy crafts in archwing, etc.). Which means most players will rather host and RJ will become even more of a wasteland island.

I usually join other RJ's, never wasting anything without need, but if I don't find matches I just go wit my own ship. Same if I end up in too many matches with wannabe captains that take paper-built RJ's into the higher levels.

My point is, I only join others because I want to, and in order to be part of a team. Makes things easier even though I can easily solo any given RJ mission. Never will I see a captain as a superior, just as a host. If the captain asks me to do something, without being toxic, I'll do it. Just the same way a crewmate asks. Because that captain's saving grace is that he/she did have willing players joining him. They can just as easily leave and find a new match.

Bottom line is this: We're all playing a game, and we play it for our personal enjoyment. Take that away from players, and be left with nothing. If we can't improve the system for everyone, instead of improving for some few at the cost of many others, maybe we shouldn't improve. And we can improve it. Just not the suggested way.

 

 

You definitely have a point, I especially like the part about everyone bringing in their personal resources to the railjack. This way players would be more reasonable towards useless ability or munition spam. And I definitely agree that Railjack is a team mode, but it needs more regulations. Crewmates should not be able to slack off in a gunner seat and not care about anything during the whole mission, and while I respect any player that moves once asked, this is simply not the reality and never will be for a relevant part of the missions. Stuff like this is part of reason while individual extraction got introduced in endless. Right now the total freedom to get trolled is too much, and I'd be happy to at least disable ability, artillery and munitions use for public gunners right now. This way everyone could still do everything, but the worst could be prevented. It's a mode that requires more than one player to his job, and while you can do the space part and crewships easily alone by seat-switching, the objective-based missions require more people to be done quickly. I'll Update the OP to include this.

[Xarteros]

Create a reputation system of Upvotes and Downvotes. Assign a point value to upvotes/downvotes a player receives, and make them 'decay' over time. Also, make high-downvote count players be either unable to downvote, or have their downvotes count for fewer points. You could also weight upvotes/downvotes by measuring how many times a player died, how much damage they dealt, how many other players they revived, abilities used etc (helps weed out inactive players)

As you play with PUGs, you build your 'reputation', and players can view each other's reputation somewhere nice and clear (even just up the top in the squad icons) before you join. They could even make lockout levels, so a player with negative reputation is incapable of joining a high reputation player without direct invite. Much like having high ping, having a low reputation might prompt an actual popup warning that lets the squad leader accept/deny a low-reputation player into their squad.

Frankly, it's a system Warframe could sorely use in general. Being able to get really high reputation and have matchmaking pair you with similar individuals means PUG matches would become much more consistent across the board.

It's not a perfect system, and it's not without its exploits, but it's probably more fair than having kick systems or captain-demigod systems.

[(PSN)Hikuro-93]

4 minutes ago, Xarteros said:

Create a reputation system of Upvotes and Downvotes

I certainly wouldn't mind a yelp review app, lol. And the decay seems great to prevent trolling/toxicity.

I'd be charmed, specially since I do strive in order to be the best player possible, having my fully upgraded support intrinsics (and all others, basically), manning the forge, taking out crewships by slingshot, remotely repairing damage to RJ while instantly killing boarders at the same time.

Would save me a good hassle since most of the time I get stink eye from some captains and players because they see me pretty much stopped in the middle of the RJ, until they realise I am just waiting for breaches, boarders, crewships and forge stuff - which is when they leave me to my shenanigans, since I am indeed helping a lot despite not needing to move much. I usually find it funny when a player rushes to a breach only to find it remotely repaired when they get there.

I just tend to be in one spot monitoring everything via Tactical Menu and go where I'm needed the most. With a good pilot/RJ that means I move less, ofc.

This system would also help assess a player's overall skill, though not an absolute indicator, which would already be better than what we currently have - absolutely no indicator at all. Heck, even MR isn't the best indicator of skill (not even a reliable one, for that matter), but it does provide a bit of preliminary insight. Indicators are always welcome, even if they aren't perfect and absolute.

[GKP_light]

suggestion : remoove the possibility to say chose to go back in the dojo, and instead, at the end of the mission befor the start of a new mission, the player shose to go back to the dojo or to start a new mission.

[Genoscythe]

Il y a 12 heures, Xarteros a dit :

Create a reputation system of Upvotes and Downvotes. Assign a point value to upvotes/downvotes a player receives, and make them 'decay' over time. Also, make high-downvote count players be either unable to downvote, or have their downvotes count for fewer points. You could also weight upvotes/downvotes by measuring how many times a player died, how much damage they dealt, how many other players they revived, abilities used etc (helps weed out inactive players)

As you play with PUGs, you build your 'reputation', and players can view each other's reputation somewhere nice and clear (even just up the top in the squad icons) before you join. They could even make lockout levels, so a player with negative reputation is incapable of joining a high reputation player without direct invite. Much like having high ping, having a low reputation might prompt an actual popup warning that lets the squad leader accept/deny a low-reputation player into their squad.

Frankly, it's a system Warframe could sorely use in general. Being able to get really high reputation and have matchmaking pair you with similar individuals means PUG matches would become much more consistent across the board.

It's not a perfect system, and it's not without its exploits, but it's probably more fair than having kick systems or captain-demigod systems.

But, as you pointed out, this could again be heavily abused, don't like the weapon loadout of the captain? Don't like the Warframe your crewmate runs with? Downvote! I can see a number of issues here, including indirectly forcing people to adhere to a certain meta or getting downvotebombed. Having general options for playstyle preference might be a cautious first step. E.g. letting players optionally tag their hosted games with things like "helping new players", "experts only", "resource farm" etc. and letting players search for certain types of games. I think letting other players have power over other players beyond the mission leads us back to a very undesireable state. We already have the option to report people for heavy abuse or toxicity over the support page.