What Steel Path could be...

[(PSN)Siruta]

When I saw some new Jackal promo, I was excited seeing someone actually use blocking and trying to dodge mechanics. I know it's fake, but I was thinking what if. I've been playing Warframe for a few years, and I see the biggest skills needed in the game is to aim and to move. That's all (and anyone else that knows what I mean can understand that apart from knowing what to do in the game, the hardest part for newer players is aiming correctly, and learning how to move).

In my eyes, the idea of a hard mode should be to challenge players. Make players actually have to dodge and block attacks. Make players have to actually watch enemies and learn patterns. A "simple" fix is to test and try different mechanics. How much more annoying it would be if majority of the lancers actually had ways to dodge and move out of the way for certain things? We actually have to chase down Liches and their thralls. It should be harder to kill enemies, without having them turn into giant sponges.

I'm not trying to say DE has to do this or has to do that. I'm just saying that it would be fun as a player to experience different mechanics with different enemies. Especially with bosses, like having to actually block certain attacks that could follow you, or having to dodge and hide from an instakill.

[Univarous]

(MR29 that plays anything from lith fissures to 3 hour disruption arbitrations)

I use dodge all the time in game even at low levels. I do also use block a lot since I tend to equip my melee very often.

[akrid45]

DE pretty much said, it's only for people that don't want to wait 4 hours in survival to get enemy levels high. It's not supposed to be challenging. 

It's a shame because just a big wasted opportunity but oh well 

[Loza03]

They can't do that without changing the AI which, quite frankly, is much more of a task than a side mode like Steel Path. Not to mention that there's a bevy of other challenges facing such changes, including the design of the enemies AND players.

Make no mistake - I want better enemy and ability design. But that's above the Steel Path's pay grade.

[ChaoticEdge]

they all say it is hard mode but more likely players getting their guns nerf is more likely is going happen.

[(XBOX)ShonOfDawn]

Just now, TheGreatKazein said:

I use dodge all the time in game even at low levels. I do also use block a lot since I tend to equip my melee very often.

Well, both are not optimal, nor encouraged in normal gameplay. Dodge, when not used for invincibility through RG, is generally just another movement tool to flop around like a salmon, because there are close to no telegraphed attacks that can be dodged on reaction (except maybe profit taker, or some mortar dudes in fortuna/plains), and not by just adding passive inaccuracy to the enemies or sheer luck. Blocking is just "there" whenever you have a melee in your hand, while being completely inaccessible from "neutral", i.e. holding a gun. It is totally passive most of the time for most players, and actually going into full melee mode hinders you because now you have to consciously activate it. Even if it were accessible from neutral (with something like double tapping the aim button), once again there are practically no attacks that could be purposefully identified and guarded by the player, because everything is either hitscan or unreactable, thus adding to a "passive" income of damage that you either out-heal, or die to. Plus, in regular content stuff dies so fast that the best defense is having all enemies dead. I'd love for Warframe's combat, survivability in particular, to become more skill based, but that requires an almost complete overhaul of enemy units, and DE definitely isn't bold enough to attempt it.

[(PSN)Apoleon_amarr]

hace 21 minutos, (XB1)ShonFr0st dijo:

Well, both are not optimal, nor encouraged in normal gameplay. Dodge, when not used for invincibility through RG, is generally just another movement tool to flop around like a salmon

Rolling gives a 75% damage reduction tho

[(XBOX)ShonOfDawn]

9 minutes ago, (PS4)Apoleon_amarr said:

Rolling gives a 75% damage reduction tho

Which lasts for what, half a second? Damage in this game comes mostly through a constant stream of small hits, which will keep hitting you as soon as you exit the roll, and those rare big hits (Hyekka Molotov, Toxic Ancient radial attack, Bombard rocket are the only ones that come to mind) are generally way too fast or unrecognizable for you to react in time and roll beforehand. And in that same half a second, with the right frame or weapon you could kill everything around you. Dead enemies can't DPS.

[TARINunit9]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Siruta said:

A "simple" fix 

There is no simple fix that can magically activate what you are suggesting, because what you want from Warframe is a huge fundamental difference compared to what Warframe is

Let's get out my old thesis: Warframe rewards preparation, and does not reward skill. In Dark Souls you can beat the whole game with a torch. In Half Life 2 you can beat almost every level with just the Gravity Gun and (a couple grenades to kill plot-mandated snipers). By contrast, you cannot, cannot go into Sorties or Arbitrations with just a Mag, Skana or Mk1Braton, and no mods, and expect to win on skill alone. You just can't. Enemies are not designed to be killed with skillful headshots and positioning and ammo management like they are in Doom and Quake. They're designed to be killed by passing a gear check

Could you theoretically turn Warframe into a skill-based game? Yes. Thanks to enemy balance (Troopers, Lancers, Scorpions and Powerfists, Noxes, etc. Etc.) already show what could be done. But there is no "simple fix", you would have to rebuild the AI and the player's modding system each from the ground up

[(PSN)Siruta]

1 minute ago, TARINunit9 said:

There is no simple fix that can magically activate what you are suggesting, because what you want from Warframe is a huge fundamental difference compared to what Warframe is

Let's get out my old thesis: Warframe rewards preparation, and does not reward skill. In Dark Souls you can beat the whole game with a torch. In Half Life 2 you can beat almost every level with just the Gravity Gun and (a couple grenades to kill plot-mandated snipers). By contrast, you cannot, cannot go into Sorties or Arbitrations with just a Mag, Skana or Mk1Braton, and no mods, and expect to win on skill alone. You just can't. Enemies are not designed to be killed with skillful headshots and positioning and ammo management like they are in Doom and Quake. They're designed to be killed by passing a gear check

Could you theoretically turn Warframe into a skill-based game? Yes. Thanks to enemy balance (Troopers, Lancers, Scorpions and Powerfists, Noxes, etc. Etc.) already show what could be done. But there is no "simple fix", you would have to rebuild the AI and the player's modding system each from the ground up

I get what you mean, and I'm not trying to be like those people that say if DE does this and that the game will be perfect. I know that "simple" fix is very complicated and complex to do from a developer perspective. I don't want the game to be skill based like the ones you referenced, but I do want Warframe to be more interactive with missions. There are a lot of stuff that are extremely fun, but I personally miss diverse enemy mechanics that really pull you in instead of looking at a model and deciding where the head is. I know that if such an idea was actually proposed and implemented, it would take a long time, and I'm willing to wait for that. I'm less of trying to give immediate changes, but ones I hope to see in the future.

(And for your last part, I think the player preparation and how Warframe is currently styled as a game is great! However, the changes I want to be [at least] looked at is less of what can the player do to enemies and more of what can enemies do to players.)