The problem of the AI and how could be solved with some new types of enemies.

[Alseiker]

I have been playing this game for 2 years, i really like it and i see a lot of people saying that they want a game with more "challenge", but i really don't think that a lv150 horde that would kill you with they insta aimbot and that can't be oneshotted easily should be considered a content that make the game harder. I have been thinking that this game need something else, a new way of interact with the enemies and change the flow of the game.

I would really like to take a example as a good way of reworking the dificult by focusing in the nullifier, this guy is just a perfect way of starting to work around this problem of dificulty. I have been thinking in a way of make him more interesting that the one we have right now and some enemies that would make the game more about decision, instead of just shoot and disconnect yourself from the world. My list for now is::

• Nullifier (Reworked): this starts as a normal unit instead of being a nullifier starting. When you kill this guy, instead of being killed he could be drowned and he would spawn a object device (with a strong blue color) that need two keys to being desactivated (The keys drops from enemies, until there are not nullifiers in the field). You need to take those keys and put in the device, if you don't do anything the unit would spam a nullifier field in the area with 3mins of lifetime, the field would need to have at least 1.5 of the size of the normal bubble. 
  • In defense/mobileDefense missions this guys would have the chance of run into your defense objetive and spawn instantly a nullifier field with 0.5 of the size of the normal bubble for 1min around your defense objetive.
  • They sould appear in the map with a blue icon or aura covering their bodies. 
• Speeder (I don't have a good name yet): same as Nullifiers but spawm a device with a yellow as color and you have to hack it (you have 2 oportunities). If you fail to hack the device or you don't hack it in at least 1.5min. He dies and spawn a field (That would be great if looks like ivara invisibility arrow) that make the enemies run at x3 times the velocity they usually have. This field is alive for at least 2min or 3mins.
  • In defense mission, mobile defense, and survival this guy have the ability to run into defense objetive or life supports and spawn a the same field. This field would need to have same size as the initial and the effect is changed to slowing the firerate and attack speed of every warframe inside the circle.
  • They sould appear with a yellow icon or a aura covering their bodies.
• LifeDrainers: This guys would have would need to be fast and they should be inmune to warframe abilities. They should appear in defense/mobile defense missions, they would attach to a objetive and would spawn a timer of 20seg, fi you don't kill them with in that timespan, a field would appear covering this zone. inside that zone the HP of the warframe would be drained with a velocity that scale with the time that the warframes are inside the field. would need a lifetime of 1 or 2mins.
  • They should appear with a red icon or a aura covering their bodies.

This enemies would only spawn in defense/mobile defense and survival since i don't think they would make so much diference in capture (speedrun is the meta) and etc.

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by Neoriek

[(PSN)Lollybomb]

To sum this up: Disable player abilities.  Except for the speed enemy, who wouldn't really change anything since he'll get nuked by abilities anyway.

Really, the only possible way of creating challenge is to disable player abilities.  That's it.  The entire problem of creating challenge is we're too powerful with our abilities.

[Alseiker]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Lollybomb said:

To sum this up: Disable player abilities. 

Well, nullifiers are still disabling abilities.I am just presenting a way of how nulifiers could be less of a "i appear and nullify your abilities" and more of "take a action or you get your abilities disabled in a speciflcy zone of the map" if you take into account only the nulifiers.

And yes, there is not workaround that takes two steps. We are too powerful with our abilities. We don't have cooldowns. But working into a game that solve those problems is just game breaking. You would need to strip the game from the core or just dich the entire warframe, and make warframe 2. Rework at least half of the roster to solve the main issue. 

Everything that any player or dev come up would just be band-aids (I should put my idea as a band-aid too, is simplistic but at least give more oportunity to players of working together to avoid enviroments that hurt their base playstyle, and make them take action in case those changes happens).

I'm really sure that you too know that 150lv+ corrupted heavy gunners into a tileset spamming isn't the way of making the game better and we need more than that.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Lollybomb said:

 Except for the speed enemy, who wouldn't really change anything since he'll get nuked by abilities anyway.

Well, we are going to get 150lv+ corrupted heavy gunners in the entire startchat, maybe with this mechanic you are going to get speedrunners 150lv heavy gunners. so is a win win. I'm really sure that you can't nuke those.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Lollybomb said:

Really, the only possible way of creating challenge is to disable player abilities.  That's it.  The entire problem of creating challenge is we're too powerful with our abilities.

Warframe 2 : Electric Boogalo is the way to go.. 

 

By the way, i am not saying that the new Hard Mode is a bad idea (Is something that should really be implemented), i'm just pointing out how focusing in that as a whole new experience to players isn't the correct way of break the same loop of "enemy appear, spam E to make it disappear". When you play the necessity of taking decisions make you more invested in the long run.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Neoriek

[Loza03]

7 hours ago, Neoriek said:

Nullifier (Reworked): this starts as a normal unit instead of being a nullifier starting. When you kill this guy, instead of being killed he could be drowned and he would spawn a object device (with a strong blue color) that need two keys to being desactivated (The keys drops from enemies, until there are not nullifiers in the field). You need to take those keys and put in the device, if you don't do anything the unit would spam a nullifier field in the area with 3mins of lifetime, the field would need to have at least 1.5 of the size of the normal bubble. 

• In defense/mobileDefense missions this guys would have the chance of run into your defense objetive and spawn instantly a nullifier field with 0.5 of the size of the normal bubble for 1min around your defense objetive.
• They sould appear in the map with a blue icon or aura covering their bodies. 

That just sounds like unneccesary busywork, not an enemy.

The existing nullifier is good - it's powerful, but also vulnerable and simple. There's nothing that obfuscates the design, and that allows the player to easily intuit how to play around Nullifiers.  I agree that our abilities are too strong, but just spamming more and more nullification isn't a solution. Mainly, nullifiers disproportionately affect some abilities more than others, and plenty of problem abilities are minimally affected by nullification.

We need to do something about abilities and the energy system itself. It's no good beating around the bush. We need to tackle the problem head-on.

[Aadi880]

Nullifers are fine as is imo.

In fact, I'd argue that they are the most balanced enemy type. They have a massive bubble. Bubble phases through walls and has a strong blue color. They have the highest presense in the game because of this, and yet, all they do is deactivating abilities in their bubble, and just this one thing gets into everyone's nerves from some reason. I think its fine.

Now, what I DO think needs a rework is the leech eximus unit.

Like seriously why in the world do they NOT have anything distinguishable in them? At least form a leech line indicator that can tell the player that there is one in the vicinity DE.

DE pls.

[Rakosta_Kai]

8 hours ago, (PS4)Lollybomb said:

That's it.  The entire problem of creating challenge is we're too powerful with our abilities.

Pretty much...

The game has a few aspects to it that make it fairly impossible to maintain a cadence of balanced gameplay/threat from enemies.

• The game is centered around the use of modifiers to attributes and abilities.
• There is no obvious diminishing return or cap for modifying attributes.
• The game is centered around levels but doesn't use them to ensuring parity between enemies and players. 

It's why the game experience is so much harder for the MR0-MR3 player with no decent arsenal while grouped with other players in the same predicament— and so much easier (regardless of MR) once the player has begun amassing that arsenal or is grouped with players that have. 

[Angwah]

The biggest issue imho is the standard mob's lack of speed. Combined with our mobility, speed and damage output they have about zero chance of finishing their priority 1 actions, which is lots of times seeking cover at this shuffling turtle-like pace. Even if they live long enough said cover is unlikely to still be, you know, between them and us.

That was all fine when Warframe was a stealth/shooter and we weren't gods of carnage and destruction who can zoom around the battlefield at will, but yeah, no longer a valid 'strategy'. Doubling their speed will do a lot already, or removing the take cover action altogether. Take the much faster and more aggressive enemies in the Index as an example!

Edited June 30, 2020 by Angwah