Revenant QoL; make it so Mesmer Skin no longer gimps Danse Macabre's effectiveness.

[TheGodofWiFi]

For a while now, Revenant's Mesmer Skin has not synergised well with Danse Macabre. This is due to the fact that Danse Macabre's damage output is increased by enemy damage, similar in concept to Chroma's Vex Armour, while Mesmer Skin means that any enemy who hits/shoots Revenant will immediately by stunned/put to sleep, meaning Danse will not be as effective as it could be.

A simple quality of life change can fix this instantly; disable Mesmer Skin and make Revenant invulnerable while Danse Macabre is active, which gives the ability the chance to shine. However, in order to balance it, increase the energy drain of Danse by a good amount, otherwise you can essentially make old Mesa again.

Edit: Oh, and remove the pointless manual damage increase for Danse. It's pretty redundant when the ability already has its damage output increased by enemy damage.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

No thank you.

[TheGodofWiFi]

4 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

No thank you.

Got anything else to add to that or are you just not going to elaborate at all?

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

8 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Got anything else to add to that or are you just not going to elaborate at all?

Danse already modifies its beams to target enemy weaknesses and drains an incredible amount of energy. You would be exchanging a very short burst of invulnerability for the chance to do slightly better damage....why? At low levels, things will die fast anyway, and at higher levels, the Danse Beams alone aren't gonna kill much faster, especially with a shorter duration....The CC from preventing multiple enemies shooting at you (and thralling them) is much more useful, accompanied by reave or using weapons on guns, things already die fast if needed. 

 

 

[TheGodofWiFi]

37 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Danse already modifies its beams to target enemy weaknesses and drains an incredible amount of energy. You would be exchanging a very short burst of invulnerability for the chance to do slightly better damage....why? At low levels, things will die fast anyway, and at higher levels, the Danse Beams alone aren't gonna kill much faster, especially with a shorter duration....The CC from preventing multiple enemies shooting at you (and thralling them) is much more useful, accompanied by reave or using weapons on guns, things already die fast if needed. 

 

 

Danse’s drain really is not that bad when you add in a Streamline, so don’t exaggerate. If you have a Primed Flow or even a regular Flow it makes it pretty much a non-issue.
 

Also, its definitely not “slightly better damage”. It’s scales. Have you actually taken Revenant into the simulacrum and tested Danse on a high level squad with invulnerability on? The damage they pump into Danse Macabre means they die pretty quickly due to the scaling damage.

That is why I proposed that the energy drain be higher, so it still remains useful at high levels, but not where you can just sit around with a high efficiency build and just watch the enemies die around you, because that is far too OP. Honestly, take Revenant into the simulacrum, simulate an average high level Void squad and see how long it takes for Danse to kill them without Mesmer Skin on, because it is not long at all.

With that kind of change it means you can take on enemies at both low and high level, but it would be strategic so you couldn’t just sit there, put your feet up and eat lunch while the enemies die around you, à la old Mesa.

Also, what does the adaptive damage have to do with anything? It’s not a reason to not do this change as like I said, it would be balanced with the increased drain.

Your Mesmer Skin charges would still remain when Danse is cancelled, so you still have your CC at the end. A frame doesn’t have to be just about CC either as proven by popular frames like Mesa and Inaros.

[chaotea]

54 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

A simple quality of life change can fix this instantly;

..... Make it so that each stunned enemy adds a flat multiplier to any future damage gains.

[TheGodofWiFi]

22 minutes ago, chaotea said:

..... Make it so that each stunned enemy adds a flat multiplier to any future damage gains.

We already have scaling damage built into Danse. Simply adding invulnerability to it would be far better than getting a multiplier every time you’re hit, since you don’t even need them. Scaling damage beats damage multipliers every time.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

8 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Danse’s drain really is not that bad when you add in a Streamline, so don’t exaggerate. If you have a Primed Flow or even a regular Flow it makes it pretty much a non-issue.
 

Also, its definitely not “slightly better damage”. It’s scales. Have you actually taken Revenant into the simulacrum and tested Danse on a high level squad with invulnerability on? The damage they pump into Danse Macabre means they die pretty quickly due to the scaling damage.

That is why I proposed that the energy drain be higher, so it still remains useful at high levels, but not where you can just sit around with a high efficiency build and just watch the enemies die around you, because that is far too OP. Honestly, take Revenant into the simulacrum, simulate an average high level Void squad and see how long it takes for Danse to kill them without Mesmer Skin on, because it is not long at all.

With that kind of change it means you can take on enemies at both low and high level, but it would be strategic so you couldn’t just sit there, put your feet up and eat lunch while the enemies die around you, à la old Mesa.

Also, what does the adaptive damage have to do with anything? It’s not a reason to not do this change as like I said, it would be balanced with the increased drain.

Your Mesmer Skin charges would still remain when Danse is cancelled, so you still have your CC at the end. A frame doesn’t have to be just about CC either as proven by popular frames like Mesa and Inaros.

The simulacrum only goes to level 145 I think....that's why people use actual real mission scenarios. And it scaling only means it doesn't actually need any damage increase....

Also, you can replenish energy with orbs and proc energize, so it has plenty "chance to shine".

Also, there's this as well: 

• Damage reflected by  Mesmer Skin also accumulates into Danse Macabre's energy beam damage pool.

[TheGodofWiFi]

18 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Snip

You’re getting confused. I never said Danse needed a buff to damage, due to the fact it has scaling damage. I said Danse’s damage potential is being held back due to how it interacts with Mesmer Skin, therefore not allowing players to take advantage of the scaling damage.

Thats not how the simulacrum works. Every time you rank up in Mastery, the level of enemies you can spawn increases. If you’re at MR29, the enemies you can spawn are Level 175. Also, Steel Path has enemies lvl 100+ so you’re quite likely to encounter that level if you’re doing a survival.

No Danse does not have the time to shine because Mesmer Skin directly hinders its damage output due to the fact it stops enemies hitting you more than once. Energy is not the issue here. Yes I am aware that any damage reflected from Mesmer Skin is added to the pool, but its only the damage from one shot. Once the enemy hits you, they stop attacking due to the stun, so you only get the damage of that one attack, which drains very quickly. If the enemy was firing at you continuously, you would get a lot more damage output on Danse, not just the damage from one projectile.

Like I said; Mesmer Skin gimps Danse’s potential DPS.

[chaotea]

59 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

We already have scaling damage built into Danse. Simply adding invulnerability to it would be far better than getting a multiplier every time you’re hit, since you don’t even need them. Scaling damage beats damage multipliers every time.

Did you forget what your original post was though?

Quick paraphrased recap: "..... Revenant's Mesmer Skin has not synergised well with Danse Macabre. This is due to the fact that Danse Macabre's damage output is increased by enemy damage ..... while Mesmer Skin means that any enemy who hits/shoots Revenant will immediately by stunned/put to sleep, meaning Danse will not be as effective as it could be."

So you yourself said that the issue is that you're not doing as much damage as you could because enemies are getting stunned. Im not saying to replace scaling damage. Im saying if an enemy gets stunned while your dansing, make it reward you by multiplying damage converted from other enemies damaging you.

Also, you complained about Mesmer and Danse not synergising. Whats synigistic about your proposal?

2 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

disable Mesmer Skin and make Revenant invulnerable

Thats not synergy.

 

Finally:

2 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Edit: Oh, and remove the pointless manual damage increase for Danse. It's pretty redundant when the ability already has its damage output increased by enemy damage.

It means you can focus your fire on tougher enemies for short periods. Its not a 'use all the time' thing, its 'theres a tough guy, use it for a second'.

[TheGodofWiFi]

16 minutes ago, chaotea said:

Im saying if an enemy gets stunned while your dansing, make it reward you by multiplying damage converted from other enemies damaging you.

And I’m saying that is 100% pointless when you already have the potential of scaling damage which by definition, can boost your damage infinitely. You’d just be adding a pointless layer on top of an already janky interaction between two abilities that don’t need to interact at all. Simply letting the scaling damage do its job is enough as its far more powerful than a wonky capped damage multiplier.

16 minutes ago, chaotea said:

Also, you complained about Mesmer and Danse not synergising. Whats synigistic about your proposal?

Yes it doesn’t synergise, its called anti-synergy because while one ability does interact with another, it hinders it, not enhances it.

My proposal isn’t to make them synergise, but stop them from interacting with each-other, because they quite frankly do not need to. Not every ability needs to synergise with one-another. Danse already synergises well with Enthrall and Reave.

I never said my proposal was to make Mesmer Skin synergise better with Danse, you’ve just misinterpreted my OP. Right now its a rubbish synergy and not having them synergise at all would be ideal.

16 minutes ago, chaotea said:

It means you can focus your fire on tougher enemies for short periods. Its not a 'use all the time' thing, its 'theres a tough guy, use it for a second'.

When you have scaling damage, that further damage boost is basically pointless as your damage can increase infinitely anyway.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

So establish even further that Danse Macabre is Revenants best option? Sure why not.

Tho it’s energy drain is already excessive. No reason to push it even further.

[chaotea]

39 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

you’ve just misinterpreted my OP. Right now its a rubbish synergy and not having them synergise at all would be ideal.

I didnt miss interprate it, you just didnt say what you mean. Edit it to say this so no more confusion is caused.

40 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

When you have scaling damage, that further damage boost is basically pointless as your damage can increase infinitely anyway.

Remember its not just damage, but also boosts range. The boosting doesnt hurt anything, so i dont see an issue leaving it in.

 

Over all i can agree the ability needs tweaked. I just dont think your proposal is the right way to do it. Its always better for abilities to have more synergy than less synergy.

 

[TheGodofWiFi]

11 minutes ago, chaotea said:

I didnt miss interprate it, you just didnt say what you mean.

I did. I said DE should disable Mesmer Skin and give Revenant invulnerability while Danse Macabre was active.

You misinterpreted my post. Thats on you, not me. Other people haven’t gotten confused about this, only you.

11 minutes ago, chaotea said:

Remember its not just damage, but also boosts range. The boosting doesnt hurt anything, so i dont see an issue leaving it in.

The range on Danse is pretty good already at base, but this part we can agree to disagree on.

11 minutes ago, chaotea said:

Its always better for abilities to have more synergy than less synergy.

No it isn’t. This is a flawed way of thinking. Not every ability needs to synergise with every other in the kit. In this case its abundantly clear that removing interaction between Mesmer Skin and Danse Macabre would only benefit the latter.

Like I said, Danse synergises well already with Reave and Enthrall. Why does it need to synergise with Mesmer Skin as well? Damage is irrelevant due to Danse’s scaling.

Synergy is not the one thing that makes a kit good.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

3 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

You’re getting confused. I never said Danse needed a buff to damage, due to the fact it has scaling damage. I said Danse’s damage potential is being held back due to how it interacts with Mesmer Skin, therefore not allowing players to take advantage of the scaling damage.

Thats not how the simulacrum works. Every time you rank up in Mastery, the level of enemies you can spawn increases. If you’re at MR29, the enemies you can spawn are Level 175. Also, Steel Path has enemies lvl 100+ so you’re quite likely to encounter that level if you’re doing a survival.

No Danse does not have the time to shine because Mesmer Skin directly hinders its damage output due to the fact it stops enemies hitting you more than once. Energy is not the issue here. Yes I am aware that any damage reflected from Mesmer Skin is added to the pool, but its only the damage from one shot. Once the enemy hits you, they stop attacking due to the stun, so you only get the damage of that one attack, which drains very quickly. If the enemy was firing at you continuously, you would get a lot more damage output on Danse, not just the damage from one projectile.

Like I said; Mesmer Skin gimps Danse’s potential DPS.

There's more than one enemy that hits you (and your mesmer stacks) in a mission.....and if those enemies are thralled....they aren't shooting you anyway.....

This is basically an even more massive energy drain for what you said is already scaling damage...if it's not about the damage, then why do you need more damage potential...?

If I use Danse and float over a couple energy orbs....I can keep going for quite some time.... especially if I have Primed flow on versus Flow. 

Since the damage scales and doesnt have issues killing enemies, why do I need even more energy drain when I can set my Danse up near some fallen energy orbs for an already longer and sustained damage potential?

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

And you're also assuming we all want 20 enemies shooting at us....which some of us don't.....you specifically want Danse set up to avoid all CC and just use the 4 to quickly nuke the room in exchange for losing all my energy even faster?

I'm just confused.....if I had multiple enemies shooting at me, I'm gonna CC them in some form instead of always having to rely on using Danse to create a situation where I always have to use it instead of simply CC the enemies. 

Can't you right now, just jump into a group of enemies without CCing them and just use Danse while they're all shooting at you? 

 

[TheGodofWiFi]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

There's more than one enemy that hits you (and your mesmer stacks) in a mission.....and if those enemies are thralled....they aren't shooting you anyway.....

Whats your point?

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

This is basically an even more massive energy drain for what you said is already scaling damage...if it's not about the damage, then why do you need more damage potential...?

Okay, I’m not sure if you’re deliberately trolling, or if you genuinely can’t seem to understand what I’m saying.

I didn’t say it wasn’t about Danse’s damage, I was saying Danse didn’t need an outright buff to damage due to the fact it already has scaling damage. Can you actually understand what I’m saying with that?

I’m saying remove the Mesmer Skin interaction so Danse the scaling damage can actually work to its fullest. 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

If I use Danse and float over a couple energy orbs....I can keep going for quite some time.... especially if I have Primed flow on versus Flow. 

That is exactly what I’m saying, which is why the energy consumption would need to be increased in order for Danse to not be overpowered if they did give an invulnerability tweak. Because otherwise you could breeze through low AND high level.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Since the damage scales and doesnt have issues killing enemies, why do I need even more energy drain when I can set my Danse up near some fallen energy orbs for an already longer and sustained damage potential?

Because Mesmer Skin is hindering the damage scaling by not letting enemies shoot you more than once therefore lowering Danse’s DPS. The scaling damage only works properly when enemies are constantly attacking you and Mesmer Skin makes enemies not attack you, which means Danse’s damage is lowered.

I don’t know how/why you’re having such trouble grasping such a simple premise.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

you specifically want Danse set up to avoid all CC and just use the 4 to quickly nuke the room in exchange for losing all my energy even faster?

Not at all. Why are you putting words in my mouth?

You can have CC and nuke at the same time. Its not sacrificing one for the other. The energy drain would be to compensate for the absurd damage you would be putting out Danses scaling, which is why you’d still be using CC and need to use the nuke strategically.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

always having to rely on using Danse to create a situation where I always have to use it instead of simply CC the enemies. 

Again, who said anything about always having to rely on Danse? You seem to have gone off on one about stuff I have never even said and you’ve just assumed. I have said absolutely nothing about relying solely on Danse and not using CC.

Calm down and actually look at what I’m saying.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Can't you right now, just jump into a group of enemies without CCing them and just use Danse while they're all shooting at you? 

 

Yes, but then you immediately die due to the fact that you do not have Mesmer Skin up and Danse has no in-built protection against damage. But if you activate Mesmer Skin, then enemies do not continuously shoot you and so you can’t get decent damage from the scaling, so it ends up being a waste of energy.

That is what I’m saying.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

I'm just confused.

You’re definitely not wrong there, you are very confused.

You’ve just gone off on a tangent about things I never even said. You’ve either totally and utterly misunderstood what I’m trying to say, in which I apologise for not phrasing it more clearer (somehow) or you’re just deliberately putting words in my mouth for some reason.

I’ll say it deliberately slow;

Danse has scaling damage that increases when enemies shoot you, but doesn’t protect you from that enemy damage either.

Mesmer Skin protects you from damage and makes enemies not shoot you more than once as they get put to sleep as soon as they hit you.

Mesmer Skin stops Danse from putting out as much damage as it could without Mesmer Skin, because Mesmer Skin stops enemies shooting at you more than once which means Danse cannot benefit from the scaling damage from enemies shooting at you.

So temporarily cancel Mesmer Skin while Danse is active, but give Danse invulnerability so you don’t die immediately because you don’t have Mesmer Skin up.

Danse can then do scaling damage properly as enemies will continuously fire at you, making the beams damage continuously stronger which in turn kills enemies quicker.

Danse is cheap with a Streamline attached, so it could be overpowered now that it has invulnerability and the scaling damage works properly.

To make Danse not OP, increase the energy drain so you have to use it as a strategic nuke and not an AFK turret.

I cannot lay it out any simpler than that.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

54 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Whats your point?

Okay, I’m not sure if you’re deliberately trolling, or if you genuinely can’t seem to understand what I’m saying.

I didn’t say it wasn’t about Danse’s damage, I was saying Danse didn’t need an outright buff to damage due to the fact it already has scaling damage. Can you actually understand what I’m saying with that?

I’m saying remove the Mesmer Skin interaction so Danse the scaling damage can actually work to its fullest. 

That is exactly what I’m saying, which is why the energy consumption would need to be increased in order for Danse to not be overpowered if they did give an invulnerability tweak. Because otherwise you could breeze through low AND high level.

Because Mesmer Skin is hindering the damage scaling by not letting enemies shoot you more than once therefore lowering Danse’s DPS. The scaling damage only works when enemies are constantly attacking you and Mesmer Skin makes enemies not attack you, which means Danse’s damage is lowered.

I don’t know how/why you’re having such trouble grasping such a simple premise.

Not at all. Why are you putting words in my mouth?

You can have CC and nuke at the same time. Its not sacrificing one for the other. The energy drain would be to compensate for the absurd damage you would be putting out Danses scaling, which is why you’d still be using CC and need to use the nuke strategically.

Again, who said anything about always having to rely on Danse? You seem to have gone off on one about stuff I have never even said and you’ve just assumed. I have said absolutely nothing about relying solely on Danse and not using CC.

Calm down and actually look at what I’m saying.

Yes, but then you immediately die due to the fact that you do not have Mesmer Skin up and Danse gas no in-built protection against damage. But if you activate Mesmer Skin, then enemies do not continuously shoot you and so you can’t get decent damage from the scaling, so it ends being a waste of energy.

That is what I’m saying.

You’re definitely not wrong there, you are very confused.

You’ve just gone off on a tangent about things I never even said. You’ve either totally and utterly misunderstood what I’m trying to say, in which I apologise for not phrasing it more clearer (somehow) or you’re just deliberately putting words in my mouth for some reason.

I’ll say it deliberately slow;

Danse has scaling damage that increases when enemies shoot you, but doesn’t protect you from that enemy damage either.

Mesmer Skin makes enemies not shoot you more than once.

Mesmer Skin stops Danse from putting out as much damage as it could without Mesmer Skin, because Mesmer Skin stops enemies shooting at you more than once.

So temporarily cancel Mesmer Skin while Danse is active, but give Danse invulnerability so you don’t die immediately because you don’t have Mesmer Skin up.

Danse can then do scaling damage properly.

Danse is cheap with a Streamline attached, so it could be overpowered now that it has invulnerability and the scaling damage works properly.

To make Danse not OP, increase the energy drain so you have to use it as a strategic nuke and not an AFK turret.

I cannot lay it out any more simple than that.

Sorry I should have been more clear: Why are you using 1 sterile environment simulacrum situation to make this change? 

"Have you actually taken Revenant into the simulacrum and tested Danse on a high level squad with invulnerability on? The damage they pump into Danse Macabre means they die pretty quickly due to the scaling damage." That's what you said, by the way.

Real missions aren't the simulacrum....if so then we would be adjusting many frames so they could reach their potential.....Enemy density wouldn't give you this on the regular starchart, as the enemies would already die to Danse as it currently is. 

It wouldn't work in arbitrations....as a drone could prevent Danse from killing said enemies.

It would mostly work in the Steel Path, as enemy density is much higher.....but as soon as Danse is turned off, you would now be rushing to apply CC as fast as possible because you now have fresh spawns or left over enemies still shooting at you....Multiple enemies shooting at you can drain your mesmer stacks pretty fast. In the Steel path there are definitely more than the average mesmer stacks (12 to 20ish?) Worth of enemies surrounding you....and now due to your change you probably don't have the energy to make this happen. 

So you want to implement a change, messing with our energy economy and getting rid of our Danse strength toggle (which already makes Danse stronger in exchange for more energy drain) just because you created a scenario in the simulacrum where it might be useful for one or two scenarios? 

[TheGodofWiFi]

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Why are you using 1 sterile environment simulacrum situation to make this change? 

I’m not. I’m using the simulacrum solely to show how the damage scales without Mesmer Skin on, without dying because that is the only environment where you can make frames invulnerable for testing purposes. That is why I mentioned it.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

That's what you said, by the way.

Yes I did say that. What of it? Like I said; the simulacrum allows you to be invulnerable, so it allowed me to safely test how effective Danse could be without Mesmer Skin, which in turn is why I said that the energy consumption should be increased if they tweaked Danse so that it gave you invulnerability and temporarily disabled Mesmer Skin while it was active, as without Mesmer Skin gimping the scaling damage, Danse is pretty powerful and would be overpowered if the energy consumption remained the same.

You seem to be quoting this like it somehow devalued my argument, which it doesn’t.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Real missions aren't the simulacrum

I know. That is why I’ve played Revenant in normal missions as well, which is why I said Mesmer Skin gimps Danse Macabre.

You are just basically looking to argue about anything aren’t you.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

It wouldn't work in arbitrations....as a drone could prevent Danse from killing said enemies.

This is a poor point thats add nothing to your argument as ALL frames, damage and CC, suffer from those drones as well as Corpus nullifiers and Scromba units.

Enemies that make frame abilities useless have never been an arguing point against changing a frame. This shows how paper-thin your argument really is.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

as soon as Danse is turned off, you would now be rushing to apply CC as fast as possible because you now have fresh spawns or left over enemies still shooting at you

You get fresh spawns no matter what frame you use as this is a horde game. Doesn’t matter if you use a Mesa, Ash, Equinox or Revenant, fresh mobs will spawn no matter what.

And so what if one or two enemies are left over? Thats why I said Danse would temporarily disable Mesmer Skin. After Danse is finished, Mesmer Skin and the charges you had before you activated Danse all come back. So those enemies then get immediately stunned and you can Enthrall them at no energy cost.

Seriously, you claim that I want to remove CC from Revenant, and now you’re complaining that you have to use CC. Make up your damn mind.

Next batch of irrelevant/redundant points please.
 

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Multiple enemies shooting at you can drain your mesmer stacks pretty fast.

If you stand there like a statue And don’t use your free Enthrall to distract enemies with CC, then yes they can drain quick. Thats a player problem, not a frame problem.

Next.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

Worth of enemies surrounding you....and now due to your change you probably don't have the energy to make this happen. 

Leaving aside the obvious fact that mobs don’t just pop-in right where the old mobs died in front of you, the properly used scaling damage will wipe out most if not all of the enemies. Also, Mesmer Skin would still be Revenants main form of survivability for most of the gameplay, so if you did not have that up before you activated Danse, then once again that is completely on you, not the frame.

You drop out of Danse, your Mesmer Skin charges return, use the free Enthrall to distract enemies, kill the thralls as they turn more enemies into thralls, get energy back. Job done.

And this me going with your ridiculous scenario in which ALL of your energy is drained somehow as opposed to just a decent chunk. The scaling damage will more than likely finish off the enemies before you run out of energy.

Next.

1 hour ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

So you want to implement a change, messing with our energy economy and getting rid of our Danse strength toggle (which already makes Danse stronger in exchange for more energy drain) just because you created a scenario in the simulacrum where it might be useful for one or two scenarios? 

No I want to implement a change because I have been in regular missions and Steel Path missions where Danse Macabre is not really worth using do how it interacts with Mesmer Skin which lowers its potential DPS.

I used the simulacrum to test how quickly Danse could kill high level enemies if the scaling damage was allowed to work properly, as it was literally the only way to test it without instantly dying, because as I said it has no in-built defense against damage. The changes I suggested would make Revenant’s Danse Macabre better overall. All it is a simple QoL tweak that means the ability can actually function as a scaling damage nuke which you can quickly use to kill a whole room, but slightly more expensive energy-wise so it isn’t overpowered because, as I said and you have admitted yourself; right now players can stay in Danse for a while pretty easily with a Streamline and even easier with a (Primed) Flow.

It’s clear to me now that you are basically just looking for a fight. You have deliberately misunderstood what I am saying and are hostile for no reason. On one hand you claim I try to make CC on Revenant pointless and then on the other you complain that I’m forcing you to use CC. All you have done is offer poorly constructed scenarios in which the player is the problem (i.e; standing around letting yourself get shot and not casting Mesmer Skin before you use Danse so you have no energy to defend yourself at the end), put words in my mouth and have just generally been non-constructive. The changes I have suggested would simply make Danse more usable in high levels missions as opposed to it simply being a low level nuke and would add an extra layer of survivability for Revenant on top.

These are the sort of responses I expect from a certain someone who just wants to fight everyone over Revenant and his theme whenever the frame gets brought up. Not a convincing argument whatsoever.

My advice; don’t bother replying and leave the thread, because you have done nothing but embarrass yourself.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

1 hour ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

I’m not. I’m using the simulacrum solely to show how the damage scales without Mesmer Skin on, without dying because that is the only environment where you can make frames invulnerable for testing purposes. That is why I mentioned it.

Yes I did say that. What of it? Like I said; the simulacrum allows you to be invulnerable, so it allowed me to safely test how effective Danse could be without Mesmer Skin, which in turn is why I said that the energy consumption should be increased if they tweaked Danse so that it gave you invulnerability and temporarily disabled Mesmer Skin while it was active, as without Mesmer Skin gimping the scaling damage, Danse is pretty powerful and would be overpowered if the energy consumption remained the same.

You seem to be quoting this like it somehow devalued my argument, which it doesn’t.

I know. That is why I’ve played Revenant in normal missions as well, which is why I said Mesmer Skin gimps Danse Macabre.

You are just basically looking to argue about anything aren’t you.

This is a poor point thats add nothing to your argument as ALL frames, damage and CC, suffer from those drones as well as Corpus nullifiers and Scromba units.

Enemies that make frame abilities useless have never been an arguing point against changing a frame. This shows how paper-thin your argument really is.

You get fresh spawns no matter what frame you use as this is a horde game. Doesn’t matter if you use a Mesa, Ash, Equinox or Revenant, fresh mobs will spawn no matter what.

And so what if one or two enemies are left over? Thats why I said Danse would temporarily disable Mesmer Skin. After Danse is finished, Mesmer Skin and the charges you had before you activated Danse all come back. So those enemies then get immediately stunned and you can Enthrall them at no energy cost.

Seriously, you claim that I want to remove CC from Revenant, and now you’re complaining that you have to use CC. Make up your damn mind.

Next batch of irrelevant/redundant points please.
 

If you stand there like a statue And don’t use your free Enthrall to distract enemies with CC, then yes they can drain quick. Thats a player problem, not a frame problem.

Next.

Leaving aside the obvious fact that mobs don’t just pop-in right where the old mobs died in front of you, the properly used scaling damage will wipe out most if not all of the enemies. Also, Mesmer Skin would still be Revenants main form of survivability for most of the gameplay, so if you did not have that up before you activated Danse, then once again that is completely on you, not the frame.

You drop out of Danse, your Mesmer Skin charges return, use the free Enthrall to distract enemies, kill the thralls as they turn more enemies into thralls, get energy back. Job done.

And this me going with your ridiculous scenario in which ALL of your energy is drained somehow as opposed to just a decent chunk. The scaling damage will more than likely finish off the enemies before you run out of energy.

Next.

No I want to implement a change because I have been in regular missions and Steel Path missions where Danse Macabre is not really worth using do how it interacts with Mesmer Skin which lowers its potential DPS.

I used the simulacrum to test how quickly Danse could kill high level enemies if the scaling damage was allowed to work properly, as it was literally the only way to test it without instantly dying, because as I said it has no in-built defense against damage. The changes I suggested would make Revenant’s Danse Macabre better overall. All it is a simple QoL tweak that means the ability can actually function as a scaling damage nuke which you can quickly use to kill a whole room, but slightly more expensive energy-wise so it isn’t overpowered because, as I said and you have admitted yourself; right now players can stay in Danse for a while pretty easily with a Streamline and even easier with a (Primed) Flow.

It’s clear to me now that you are basically just looking for a fight. You have deliberately misunderstood what I am saying and are hostile for no reason. On one hand you claim I try to make CC on Revenant pointless and then on the other you complain that I’m forcing you to use CC. All you have done is offer poorly constructed scenarios in which the player is the problem (i.e; standing around letting yourself get shot and not casting Mesmer Skin before you use Danse so you have no energy to defend yourself at the end), put words in my mouth and have just generally been non-constructive. The changes I have suggested would simply make Danse more usable in high levels missions as opposed to it simply being a low level nuke and would add an extra layer of survivability for Revenant on top.

These are the sort of responses I expect from a certain someone who just wants to fight everyone over Revenant and his theme whenever the frame gets brought up. Not a convincing argument whatsoever.

My advice; don’t bother replying and leave the thread, because you have done nothing but embarrass yourself.

Danse is more than a nuke....if you want to nuke, choose a nuking frame....

I don't want you messing with my energy economy and getting rid of my manual Danse switch just because you want to nuke. 

Danse also applies status....this means against grineer for example....it can apply enough corrosive procs to strip armor to 80% 

It does magnetic procs against the corpus for example. This can be used to strip shields.

So if it scales like you said, as well as adapts to enemy weaknesses, why don't you just keep it on a second longer to finish killing everything. 

 

[TheGodofWiFi]

25 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

don't want you messing with my energy economy and getting rid of my manual Danse switch just because you want to nuke. 

Well, sorry your Royal Highness, but if making the frame better by fixing janky mechanics means you have to be more careful with Danse and not spam it like an AFK turret which you apparently do, then its a microscopically small price to pay.

And Danse Macabre is a nuke ability, that is why it has scaling damage reflection.

25 minutes ago, (PS4)Madurai-Prime said:

So if it scales like you said, why don’t you just keep it on a second longer to finish killing everything.

I’m not going to repeat myself for the fifth time. I’ve explained in detail how the scaling does not work properly and doesn’t kill high levels enemies quick enough due to its interaction with Mesmer Skin and I’ve said it very slowly so even a monkey could understand it as well. You’re just trolling.

[(PSN)Madurai-Prime]

19 minutes ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Well, sorry your Royal Highness, but if making the frame better by fixing janky mechanics means you have to be more careful with Danse and not spam it like an AFK turret which you apparently do, then its a microscopically small price to pay.

And Danse Macabre is a nuke ability, that is why it has scaling damage reflection.

I’m not going to repeat myself for the fifth time. I’ve explained in detail how the scaling does not work properly and doesn’t kill high levels enemies quick enough due to its interaction with Mesmer Skin and I’ve said it very slowly so even a monkey could understand it as well. You’re just trolling.

If you'd like, I can make you a quick video that shows you how to utilize your primary, secondary weapon, and melee. 

A better idea, if you're incapable of using these 3 items is to make the invincibility and increased energy drain occur during the holding of the fire button only. This makes it so you're not affecting everyones playstyle with your nuke only options.

[chaotea]

17 hours ago, TheGodofWiFi said:

Synergy is not the one thing that makes a kit good.

Never said it was the only thing. You do keep implying things ive not said. Though I was worried I'd said something to anger you, by reading your replys to other users I can see that the simple act of not agreeing with you seems to send you into a rage.

This reminded me of a pointless conversation I had recently with someone proposing Hydroid changes who was stubborn, opinionated and anrgy. Wouldnt even consider another opinion or entertain any discussion on the point. This sort of thing doesnt promote dicussion, which is how change happens.

---------------------

Ok, so i looked at that topic. And it turns out it was you! Small world.

So im just going to nope out of this conversation, as its not going to go anywhere but down. Have fun with your idea. Bye bye.

 

[TheGodofWiFi]

1 hour ago, chaotea said:

I can see that the simple act of not agreeing with you seems to send you into a rage.

Not at all. Someone was putting words in my mouth, deliberately misunderstanding what I was trying to say and putting forth redundant scenarios in which the player was the problem, not the frame. If you actually look at the conversation properly, like with my original post, you’d see that.

1 hour ago, chaotea said:

Ok, so i looked at that topic. And it turns out it was you! Small world.

And now you’ve just joined them in trying to basically attack my character instead of actually focusing on the subject matter by saying me getting annoyed with others in another thread who refuse to acknowledge facts about Hydroids abilities being bad due to their RNG reliant nature and camping-promoting playstyle, is just being “stubborn and angry”. 

Leaving the details of other discussions and what both sides were saying to get a cheap pot-shot. Cool.

This is the kind of thing that brings down the conversation, focusing on characters involved rather than the actual subject. If you don’t have anything substantial to say on the subject, then don’t say anything at all.

Have a nice day.

 

[nslay]

Vex Armor is not an example of reflected/returned enemy damage scaling better. Vex Armor directly increases your output damage and armor as a function of damage to your health and shields... not enemies doing useful quantities of damage that could efficiently kill other enemies.

A better example would be Resonator/Mallet. Though, unlike Danae Macabre, Mallet’s output has a damage multiplier factored in. It’s also dealing damage based on an accumulation of all damage Resonator has received rather than simply reflecting/returning the damage.

Mind Control and Nekros Shadows - even with a damage multiplier - show that enemy damage really isn’t all that great by itself. Ignoring the damage numbers and directly scaling up your own base damage like Vex Armor or using some kind of amplified accumulation of all received damage like Resonator/Mallet is a better option for making better use of otherwise poor enemy damage.