A Summarization Of Why The War Is Rigged.

[Taranis49]

So the Grineer get more territory and resources, why would that scare me when we've liberated so many Tenno from the Corpus.  We can just use those new Tenno (who we care a LOT more about) to just cut down the Grineer to size.

 

We can just send out a few lone Novas to take care of the problem.  Maybe with a Rhino or Frost or Trinity to back them up if we want it done faster.

 

2 Tier-1 Warframes can blow up over a hundred Grineer in no time flat without breaking much of a sweat (hell, 1 top tier Warframe can do it, just slower), so why would we worry about greater Grineer influence?

 

First, we don't know how many Tenno are being liberated (and personally, I wouldn't be surprised if something was horribly wrong with the bunch anyway, since even Lotus didn't know about them, that tells me they were deliberately hidden even from their brethren for a reason).

 

Further, despite everything the Tenno have achieved, the fact remains that they haven't been able to claim (nevermind hold) even a single inch of land from the Grineer to call their own. There's probably a good reason why clan dojos are hidden on the periphery of the system. ;-)

[Cpl_Facehugger]

Yes, this means the Corpus should have some extremely powerful weapons, which they currently don't,

The flux rifle and supra, two of the highest DPS weapons in the game, are both of Corpus manufacture. In fact, outside of Tenno-specific guns like the soma, nearly every good weapon in this game is Corpus in origin. Ignis and Ogris are really the only exceptions.

And as any rhino who's been mauled by a single tech with his supra will tell you, the corpus have a hell of a lot of firepower. They don't have the AOE of napalms, but their single target damage is even higher.

 

Edit: Also, from a Lore point of view.... Why are Grineer even a choice? If the Tenno are supposed to just keep things in balance, and in turn be peace keepers, then shouldn't we be fighting only the Grineer to insure they do not become more powerful?

Because Tenno aren't necessarily "balance keepers" due to mysticism or anything, they're "balance keepers" because the Corpus and Grineer being relatively evenly matched is in their best interests. It just so happens that recovering a bunch of cryopods full of Tenno is more in their best interests than helping the corpus reverse-engineer warframe technology.

Edit: But basically, this whole thread reeks of butthurt. Xylia has a very good point with the lore on how we have no connection to these invisible faceless civilians, but all his other points are basically tainted by the butthurt.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Cpl_Facehugger

[Taranis49]

Edit: Also, from a Lore point of view.... Why are Grineer even a choice? If the Tenno are supposed to just keep things in balance, and in turn be peace keepers, then shouldn't we be fighting only the Grineer to insure they do not become more powerful? Following this train of thought, we should be trying to stop them, to insure the safety of the "colonies" which are apparently civilians. Assuming this is the main reason Tenno exist, then surely the Tenno in the pods wouldn't mind being sacrificed for "the greater good," because they would presumably have sacrificed themselves to keep these colonies safe, & prevent the Grineer from becoming more powerful than anyone else.

 

This is something I kinda agree with, myself - at current, the Grineer control about half the entire solar system (even excluding Mars), by contrast, the Corpus own far less (the infested, meanwhile, really only have Eris and Jupiter to their name). Hell, it's basically the primary reason the Tenno were re-activated, because the oppressive regime of the Grineer was growing too powerful (this is explicitly stated in the lore, I don't consider it a coincidence that the starting planet is a Grineer one, incidentally).

 

It's one of their identifying characteristics - Tenno are pegged as being the "balance-keepers" with a cornerstone value of chivalry and all that jazz in the lore, and to reuse the quote from Jon Stewart: "If you don't stick to your values when they're being tested, they're not values - they're hobbies". Note the fact that Lotus only uses words like "duty" when you're running Corpie missions.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Taranis49

[Alkirin]

I understand the complaints about the 'initial push'.

 

But what some others don't understand is that most of the major clans were already planning on supporting Grineer before the reward system was even revealed.

 

Given how fast the first couple of planets flipped, it ultimately would have made no difference in the long run.

 

The first point where any real investment was made was Martialis, where hundreds of matches were thrown against apparently superior odds, because the Corpus reward was just that much better.

 

That trend continued onto an even match and other Corpus-favored matches that fell to the Grineer, hard.

 

It's like none of you considered that the playerbase simply supports the Grineer in this conflict - because that's what has been shown insofar.

[Ozrik]

I know I said Warbros earlier, but I was actually confusing them for the Multi-Clan Alliance that is BROFRAME. I read somewhere that they have 17k members or some-crap. That's........ a heck of a lot of people. Even if they JUST did their quota on each battle, that's 85,000 PER NODE. That is assuming everybody stops at 5 and everybody does 5 (actual results might balance out more).

 

And that's JUST Broframe.

 

That's not counting Warbros and a few of the other large clans.

Hahah what?? Broframe has like 4 clans in alliance with about 800 members each.  17k don't think so.  Half of the crap posted on these forums is Warbros propaganda, and them patting themselves on the back like a bunch of tools.

[Ixalion]

I understand the complaints about the 'initial push'.

 

But what some others don't understand is that most of the major clans were already planning on supporting Grineer before the reward system was even revealed.

 

Given how fast the first couple of planets flipped, it ultimately would have made no difference in the long run.

 

The first point where any real investment was made was Martialis, where hundreds of matches were thrown against apparently superior odds, because the Corpus reward was just that much better.

 

That trend continued onto an even match and other Corpus-favored matches that fell to the Grineer, hard.

 

It's like none of you considered that the playerbase simply supports the Grineer in this conflict - because that's what has been shown insofar.

 

But just WHO are the people being represented in this event? Clan members working 24/7 to get their clan a trophy because their clan leader forced them to? Players who are motivated by spur-of-the-moment rewards and which side is currently winning at the moment? People who want one faction to win because they believe in the moral choice they embody and honestly like them?

 

Because of the way this event was handled, no one knows.

[Alkirin]

 

But just WHO are the people being represented in this event? Clan members working 24/7 to get their clan a trophy because their clan leader forced them to? Players who are motivated by spur-of-the-moment rewards and which side is currently winning at the moment? People who want one faction to win because they believe in the moral choice they embody and honestly like them?

 

Because of the way this event was handled, no one knows.

 

All three of those are factors in this event and more than one interesting twist has developed as a result.  As it should be.  There is no reason any one factor should single-handedly dictate the entire course of the war.

[Seze]

+1 times infinity.

 

This event was so FUBAR it's not even funny.

[Nagisawa]

+1 times infinity.

 

This event was so FUBAR it's not even funny.

It was FUBAR'ed long before it started.

[Meatuchu]

It was FUBAR'ed long before it started.

 

It was FUBAR'ed exactly when steve said in a meeting "Hey let's give out biased rewards for the first 2 days"

[Dracosaber]

I understand the complaints about the 'initial push'.

 

But what some others don't understand is that most of the major clans were already planning on supporting Grineer before the reward system was even revealed.

 

Given how fast the first couple of planets flipped, it ultimately would have made no difference in the long run.

 

The first point where any real investment was made was Martialis, where hundreds of matches were thrown against apparently superior odds, because the Corpus reward was just that much better.

 

That trend continued onto an even match and other Corpus-favored matches that fell to the Grineer, hard.

 

It's like none of you considered that the playerbase simply supports the Grineer in this conflict - because that's what has been shown insofar.

 

It did make a difference, though. The "initial push" in rewards cemented the position of most of the biggest clans and random individuals as Grineer, making the war completely one-sided. Even if it was true that most supported the Grineer beforehand, it would have been better for the event and thus more fun if the fighting had been more balanced between the two sides. Alas, that is not what happened. 

 

Thus, it doesn't matter where anyone started in their allegiance. What matters is the early rewards dictated the outcome of this event. Pure and simple, though it is simple if you consider many different factors, like the OP does. 

[Sakatox]

And warbros actually has more guys then that. I am surprised they have not broken 80k....

Warbros peak activity player number: ~200.

Warbros actual size: A little bit under 1000.

Way to inflate your opinion.

[Zapier]

I understand the complaints about the 'initial push'.

 

But what some others don't understand is that most of the major clans were already planning on supporting Grineer before the reward system was even revealed.

 

Given how fast the first couple of planets flipped, it ultimately would have made no difference in the long run.

 

The first point where any real investment was made was Martialis, where hundreds of matches were thrown against apparently superior odds, because the Corpus reward was just that much better.

 

That trend continued onto an even match and other Corpus-favored matches that fell to the Grineer, hard.

 

It's like none of you considered that the playerbase simply supports the Grineer in this conflict - because that's what has been shown insofar.

I don't have a problem with the majority of the playerbase supporting a side, but I do have a problem when the way the rewards for the event are being handled (and I'm speaking more about the end event rewards) that once it became very clear which side was heavily favored, it gave the 'losing side' three choices.

 

One of those choices being that you stick with your choice and grind and play and still lose and take your enemy's melee weapon and your enemy's Pistol BP. If you play the numbers, yes even the losers still get all the benefits of T2 rewards and a T3 reward you essentially have to power up yourself. If you look at it from the way I've seen most events in my months of playing casual/hardcore at different times, I never felt like my rewards would be so blantantly dictated by people I competed against. In fact, I thought most of the previous events were about cooperation and even then you were basically responsible in securing your own selection of event rewards by how much time you put in. This time around, no matter how much time you put into a losing side, you get nothing of what you fought for... you get what the other side fought for. In that view this event is terrible in the rewards department (the event itself was interesting and I'd love to see areas flip more often without even battle payout stuff).

 

Second choice, you play the balance game and try to split your missions 50/50, picking up all the best battle payouts and hanging on until you saw who appeared to be the winning side and then just tack one mission for them and call it a day. That way you never really picked a side (like the event really pushed people into sorta doing with all the talk of choose your side) and just sat on the sideline to maximize your rewards. These players then are technically helping no one but getting all the benefit of the grind that those who chose a side did. It's kind of terrible, but this is really the way everyone should have played... but then who would decide the victor except for the clans.

 

Third and final choice is to do what I have heard many people do and what I even considered doing. After the initial swing towards Grineer being very obvious, many people who wanted to support Corpus gave up so they can maximize their end event rewards and started having to grind Grineer putting themselves into the second choice, or just completely went Grineer to help ensure the rout that is still looking to happen.

 

Yes, maybe we shouldn't just blame the clans and yes many people chose Grineer beforehand and maybe, just maybe they are the popular faction and were going to win regardless of what happened during the event battle-pay wise. Yet, you can't ignore that the losing side then has 'defectors' and people wanting to ensure their best possible end event reward for their time by then ignoring Corpus and going Grineer. If the losing side still felt like they were getting what they played for (Corpus rewards, even if the T3 was just a BP version as many have suggested) then you might not have as many players switching their mission grinds and thus having an event that looked even more competitive and fun at the struggle than petering out in the end by getting screwed out of what you tried for as it currently feels like.

 

Many people naturally play for the best reward if they can't really control what type of reward they get. So, if a badge and a community full of people telling you to suck it up and enjoy what you didn't invest your time in trying to win is all you get for trying to win, not waiting to win, then the event is really terrible as a whole. Just think about it... if you're trying to get say... a brand new Prime Warframe if you grind T3 Defense, but if the community grinds T3 Mobile Defense more you're going to get this other Prime Warframe instead, no matter how much effort you put into T3 Defense, you get this other warframe that maybe you hate and it won't come with a slot and potato too. You would say, let me at least have the warframe I invested my time for even if it has no slot and potato because that would be better than getting what you never even wanted in the first place... especially when it's going to be an inferior reward anyways on top of that...

Edited October 28, 2013 by Zapier

[shr0ud]

I have close to 150 runs, all Grineer, no Corpus.

 

I'm not even playing right now, I'm just relaxing and reading whiny posts on the forums.

I'd hate to ask how many Corpus runs some of you people have because I'd feel bad about ruining your fun just by having mine. except I wouldn't.

try harder?

[Blatantfool]

 Posting to confirm that Warbros totally has like 17k players. In fact right now we have over 4 million Tenno online grinding. It's true. Clan member limit be damned.

 

 100% canon.

[shr0ud]

 Posting to confirm that Warbros totally has like 17k players. In fact right now we have over 4 million Tenno online grinding. It's true. Clan member limit be damned.

 

 100% canon.

mod confirmed Warbros is the Alpha Team you don't see.

[Nerokerubina]

Reason #5: Warbros. This is more or less re-iterating #1, but this deserves its own mention. You know the biggest Clans are going to go for Leaderboards, and you locked each clan into doing 100% for a side. Surely you should have known that these mega-clan-alliance-whatevers were going to decide the entire War for the rest of the playerbase. Do you really think your average joe (or even several hundred of them) are going to put a dent in the efforts of 17k+ no-lifers who routinely win every stinking competition to date? Seriously? This is another reason why we should have just nixed the individual side competitions (and made the competition for just the event in general, without the individual side requirements). So, once Warbros chooses who wins.......that's it. Everybody else might as well go home.

 

 

This is what casuals actually believe. That Warbros are at fault for letting a side win.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Nerokerubina

[Hypnoised]

 Posting to confirm that Warbros totally has like 17k players. In fact right now we have over 4 million Tenno online grinding. It's true. Clan member limit be damned.

 

 100% canon.

 

Warbros stronk. Time to go home folks, we run this event.

[victor_victory]

DE make us thought that our action and decision can affect the lore and future gameplay,but the execution of the reward system make it impossible for player to try to turn the tide for corpus,grineer win already once the first few invasion are successful,players can't bear the cost to lost a maybe unique weapon because they hope the lore goes the way they like.

Edited October 28, 2013 by victor_victory

[Ced23Ric]

Reason #5: Warbros. This is more or less re-iterating #1, but this deserves its own mention. You know the biggest Clans are going to go for Leaderboards, and you locked each clan into doing 100% for a side. Surely you should have known that these mega-clan-alliance-whatevers were going to decide the entire War for the rest of the playerbase. Do you really think your average joe (or even several hundred of them) are going to put a dent in the efforts of 17k+ no-lifers who routinely win every stinking competition to date? Seriously? This is another reason why we should have just nixed the individual side competitions (and made the competition for just the event in general, without the individual side requirements). So, once Warbros chooses who wins.......that's it. Everybody else might as well go home.

 

RE: Reason #5: Not sure what anything can be done about these ridiculous Mega-Clans. Steve once said "we should have put a cap on them earlier" .... so I won't rail on him now for Hindsight always being 20/20, but sheesh.

 

You mean the 450 active players in one clan that contributed a good amount of points that, in itself, would not even have won Gravidus, the easiest node? Warbros wins because they are more dedicated than the competition. But Warbros does not decide what side wins. Warbros is also not a "ridiculous mega-clan", but more inactives than actives and a single clan. Warbros never was a zerg clan. You are thinking of Asuro and Broframe here. Warbros didn't get splintered either - except for like 50 dudes of formerly 1050 who are sitting in a clan full of inactives. I don't even know if that still exists.

 

You grossly overrate Warbros impact, grossly misunderstand the dynamics (for example, the top four Broframe clans cannot hold a candle to Warbros score - with 444 active players tracked on the latter) and you are putting blame on people who are simply more dedicated than their competition and thusly, win their bracket every time (except for when 7000 players of Broframe got more points in a killcounter event, where they scored 50% more points than 500 Warbros, because DE did not bracket up the clans past the 300 players mark).

 

PS: "No-lifers" - If someone exceeds your abilities in a videogame, how does he have no life? Warbros did Corpus runs in 2 minutes, sometimes less. Been in 1:45min runs myself. Of course you get more done than Johnny Public and Connie Casual. Warbros, always, went fast. Outside of events, the clan is quite calm. Days with ten players online happen on the regular. For events, these people come out of the woodwork, put in their time, and win. And then they go back to their quite many-facetted, vivid lives.

 

TL;DR: Warbros is less than 1000 players, less than 450 active in this event, with less score than Gravidus would have needed without Corpus defense.

[Xylia]

 

You mean the 450 active players in one clan that contributed a good amount of points that, in itself, would not even have won Gravidus, the easiest node? Warbros wins because they are more dedicated than the competition. But Warbros does not decide what side wins. Warbros is also not a "ridiculous mega-clan", but more inactives than actives and a single clan. Warbros never was a zerg clan. You are thinking of Asuro and Broframe here. Warbros didn't get splintered either - except for like 50 dudes of formerly 1050 who are sitting in a clan full of inactives. I don't even know if that still exists.

 

You grossly overrate Warbros impact, grossly misunderstand the dynamics (for example, the top four Broframe clans cannot hold a candle to Warbros score - with 444 active players tracked on the latter) and you are putting blame on people who are simply more dedicated than their competition and thusly, win their bracket every time (except for when 7000 players of Broframe got more points in a killcounter event, where they scored 50% more points than 500 Warbros, because DE did not bracket up the clans past the 300 players mark).

 

PS: "No-lifers" - If someone exceeds your abilities in a videogame, how does he have no life? Warbros did Corpus runs in 2 minutes, sometimes less. Been in 1:45min runs myself. Of course you get more done than Johnny Public and Connie Casual. Warbros, always, went fast. Outside of events, the clan is quite calm. Days with ten players online happen on the regular. For events, these people come out of the woodwork, put in their time, and win. And then they go back to their quite many-facetted, vivid lives.

 

TL;DR: Warbros is less than 1000 players, less than 450 active in this event, with less score than Gravidus would have needed without Corpus defense.

 

Yeah, someone else who failed to read the entire thread.

 

I do seem to recall a discussion on page #2 where I said "Oh, sorry, I had Warbros confused with Broframe".

 

Way to just read ONLY the first post and trip over yourselves reaching to the REPLY button without reading the rest of the thread, eh?

 

I guess asking someone to read more than a few paragraphs is "too much work" for the short attention spans these days (given the whole "tl;dr" crap that goes on these days).

Edited October 28, 2013 by Xylia

[viper279]

going lore wise i a way that i can understand and will bring up this question, also keeping it shortish.

grineer are spreading conquring and enslaving everything hell even in the trailer it stated they hunted for the one thing that can destroy them which is tenno.

corpus trader and merchants, but a side with adavance weapon and machinary yes they find tenno dissect them and sell parts to highest bidder and use them to adavance their weaponary.

 

form what i understand and read on the forums yes corpus has found a cache of sleeping tenno and plan to experment on them which well probably kill them or turn them. now here my question what makes you think the grineer are any different i belive even if people belive the grineer are there to help us resuce the tenno (which i don't) the grineer hate us i belive they are more likey to kill the cyropod tenno then turn on us.

the person who started this post i can understand you term i hate grineer and corpus equally but i dont belive nerfing grineer cause of they have more mini boss and they flame units which tip people apart but corpus are also particular powerful their moas are a massive pain when they are high enough leveled

[Ced23Ric]

Yeah, someone else who failed to read the entire thread. Way to just read ONLY the first post and trip over yourselves reaching to the REPLY button without reading the rest of the thread, eh? I guess asking someone to read more than a few paragraphs is "too much work" for the short attention spans these days (given the whole "tl;dr" crap that goes on these days).

 

Get your panties unbunched, edit your OP. Keep your vitriolic attitude - you posted nonsense, you need to fix it.

Broframe is certainly not an influencing factor in this event, with a score below Warbros. Additionally, TW & TW Prime are tiered second for their contribution. And those are neither "17k+ no lifers". You posted wrong information, you get called out on it. Stop being a defensive whiner and amend your thread opener, Xylia. That's what the edit button is for.

[Brahmastra]

Reason #5: Warbros. This is more or less re-iterating #1, but this deserves its own mention. You know the biggest Clans are going to go for Leaderboards, and you locked each clan into doing 100% for a side. Surely you should have known that these mega-clan-alliance-whatevers were going to decide the entire War for the rest of the playerbase. Do you really think your average joe (or even several hundred of them) are going to put a dent in the efforts of 17k+ no-lifers who routinely win every stinking competition to date? Seriously? This is another reason why we should have just nixed the individual side competitions (and made the competition for just the event in general, without the individual side requirements). So, once Warbros chooses who wins.......that's it. Everybody else might as well go home.

RE: Reason #5: Not sure what anything can be done about these ridiculous Mega-Clans. Steve once said "we should have put a cap on them earlier" .... so I won't rail on him now for Hindsight always being 20/20, but sheesh. Maybe some sort of Balance Incentive should have been offered, for players who tried to Balance the War? Players who have less than 10% deviance from either side get a special reward for weakening both sides equally? That would have gone a long way towards making this "War" feel like a Real "War" and not a CurbStompBattle (tvtropes).

 

This makes me wonder what would have happened if EVERYONE in the clan was playing.

Man people would be quitting left and right because of us.

 

I'll just leave this here.

[Xylia]

Get your panties unbunched, edit your OP. Keep your vitriolic attitude - you posted nonsense, you need to fix it.

Broframe is certainly not an influencing factor in this event, with a score below Warbros. Additionally, TW & TW Prime are tiered second for their contribution. And those are neither "17k+ no lifers". You posted wrong information, you get called out on it. Stop being a defensive whiner and amend your thread opener, Xylia. That's what the edit button is for.

 

I hate editing posts.

 

Why?

 

Because the forum code forces you to MANUALLY re-do all underline tags, because the editor strips underlining from your post when you re-submit the edited text.

 

I've actually reported this in Website Feedback and.......well, it never got fixed. lol. The forumcode STILL does not remember underline tags. It shows underlining in the editor, but when you send it, the underlines disappear.

 

And yes, I edited it with a note about the confusion. The point still applies that 1-3 Clans should not be the deciding factor of the war, either way and a lot of other people agree. It should have been event-wide, not Corpus and Grineer and there shouldn't have been ridiculous penalties for doing missions of the other side (given the ridiculous unbalanced rewards at the beginning).