Time To Buff Prime Weapons

[Tevye]

An example of power creep I've heard often is with WoW and the tendency of newer content to invalidate older; the new raid drops gear better than x raid, so the old raid is largely ignored as a time waste. For those style games, it means that new content replaces older content for many players, instead of adding to the breadth of content.

As it applies to warframe I think it only seems to imply equipment. And while there are some items I can't seem to make good use of (the sicarus comes to mind) I don't think we could say creep has happened, merely that it's a game balance concern.

[Tevye]

As for the vanity issue, I think that is an excellent point, and you made it well. A lot of the reaction to new gear and frames seems based on how it affects what people have already in relation to it. When Nova came out, that is exactly how people reacted. But since we can all get Nova, how is her relative strength a threat to your other frames?

[bobafetthotmail]

 

You may try to make jokes or call BS on this, but its not being presented as fact, merely theory, however time and time again proves that the vanity of people's self entitled opinion will never fade with the passage of ages.

I actually agree with this. Kids cry because there is a better weapon and they need to do stuff to make it. But that's their problem.

 

I have a Bronco Prime with bells and whistles, but I'm not asking Brakk to be nerfed, and if someone tries to &!$$ me off in-game I'm gonna load my Loki and troll him to tears.

 

Then again I choose weapons and frames on on how much I like them, You don't see me running around with a Rhino, Soma, Acrid and Galatine.

 

 

 

Online games cannot continue to exist, without constant updated additional content. which is why most (good) online games have been able to sustain life for over a decade or so, because the stuff that you got in endgame before the expansion is replaced by better, more powerful equipment AFTER the expansion.

You don't have understood what powercreep is.

That's not just the introduction of stuff that is so much more powerful, but handing such stuff to low level players for cheap.

 

Like Soma at Mastery 3. Cheap and easy for everyone, mods for it dropped everywhere, could devastate anything at any range.

 

It's much less bad when locked at mastery 6 and after the reworked mod drop system that made serious mods a bit rarer, but still imho needs some kind of rework, Armor 2.0 won't be enough.

 

Good online games simply add new levels after EndGame, and the old EndGame stops being such, but those are still levels and equipment that a noob will have to get through (at least in part) and probably use to get the new EndGame.

 

Warframe cannot do that fully due to its architecture, so they can only place stuff at higher masteries. I agree that they needed to see player reaction to weapon first before placing it to correct mastery. Because when they don't play their own game that's the only way to gauge how good is some weapon.

 

Technically speaking Galatine is powercreep too, but considering how trashy is melee as a whole, it's a welcome addition.

Edited November 8, 2013 by bobafetthotmail

[ObviousLee]

An example of power creep I've heard often is with WoW and the tendency of newer content to invalidate older; the new raid drops gear better than x raid, so the old raid is largely ignored as a time waste. For those style games, it means that new content replaces older content for many players, instead of adding to the breadth of content.

As it applies to warframe I think it only seems to imply equipment. And while there are some items I can't seem to make good use of (the sicarus comes to mind) I don't think we could say creep has happened, merely that it's a game balance concern.

with WoW yes, you had newer raids coming out replacing older raid gear, but something you aren't getting, or understand(all of you) is that you still had to go through the progression. you could not be in WOTLK epics and expect to stand a chance in the next expansions endgame runs. what you had to do, was still use that other gear, because the difference between a wrath of the lich king epic, and a cataclysm common blue, were tremendous, meaning that if you wanted to get to the next expansions endgame, you still had lots of other quests and areas you had to explore.

 

you couldn't just "jump in" to an endgame instance with the previous expansion epics, you'd be floored in seconds.

[Wolfstorm18]

I would prefer a faster reload time for the Braton Prime in case it got buffed. The damage is fine for me.

 

But Latron Prime need better damage, something like 10 points more than currently is.

 

Bronco Prime is fine the way it is. Perhaps a bit faster reload time, but not so much as the Braton needs.

 

I dont known Boar Prime, but some people says its worse than the standard Boar.

 

I dont own Paris Prime and I dont like bows, so I let this one for its users to decide.

 

Drakka Prime should have armor ignore damage, to be on par with Machete Wraith.

 

Orthos Prime I think it was already buffed.

[Tevye]

Yes, orthos prime was modified a few days after launch, it was originally added to live content with the same stats as orthos standard.

[Volthorne]

with WoW yes, you had newer raids coming out replacing older raid gear, but something you aren't getting, or understand(all of you) is that you still had to go through the progression. you could not be in WOTLK epics and expect to stand a chance in the next expansions endgame runs. what you had to do, was still use that other gear, because the difference between a wrath of the lich king epic, and a cataclysm common blue, were tremendous, meaning that if you wanted to get to the next expansions endgame, you still had lots of other quests and areas you had to explore.

 

you couldn't just "jump in" to an endgame instance with the previous expansion epics, you'd be floored in seconds.

Thanks for breaking down progression and powercreep in WoW, not like we didn't already understand that topic fully.

 

Powercreep in Warframe is definitely more subtle unless you REALLY go looking for it (IE: Soma and Vectis being better DMRs than the actual dedicated DMR - Latron - despite not even fitting into that sub-category of rifles). Then it's just about goddamned everywhere.

[ObviousLee]

Thanks for breaking down progression and powercreep in WoW, not like we didn't already understand that topic fully.

 

Powercreep in Warframe is definitely more subtle unless you REALLY go looking for it (IE: Soma and Vectis being better DMRs than the actual dedicated DMR - Latron - despite not even fitting into that sub-category of rifles). Then it's just about goddamned everywhere.

you're implying that there is something wrong with it.

[Volthorne]

you're implying that there is something wrong with it.

So you don't find it absolutely @(*()$ absurd that weapons like the Soma are better than the Latron (even the Prime) in every imaginable way - even accuracy - despite being "classed" as an LMG, which are typically used for a limited range of situations (like holding down a choke point with withering streams of bullets and only hitting stuff due to the same volume of bullets being put into the air and NOT because it has bullS#&$ pin-point accuracy)?

 

You're insane if you think this is okay and should be allowed to continue. I would go so far as to say people like you are the reason Warframe is the way it is.

[bobafetthotmail]

soma is an assault rifle. Long barrel and all.

 

Your points are still valid though. It has too much good qualities (it has everything apart Armor Ignore actually).

 

Which does make it powercreep.

Edited November 9, 2013 by bobafetthotmail

[Volthorne]

soma is an assault rifle. Long barrel and all.

 

Your points are still valid though. It has too much good qualities (it has everything apart Armor Ignore actually).

 

Which does make it powercreep.

You know what else has a long barrel? Snipers. DMRs. LMGs. HMGs. Basically any long gun (named for the long barrel they sport - duh). It's an LMG, there's no way in hell it could be classified as anything else.

Edited November 9, 2013 by Volthorne

[fatpig84]

What happens if you get Soma Prime ? *nudge nudge wink wink*

[Volthorne]

What happens if you get Soma Prime ? *nudge nudge wink wink*

IIRC, the Soma is a recent, all-original Tenno creation, not based off of Orokin tech, so we probably won't. Probably. But we're talking about DE, so who knows.

[ObviousLee]

So you don't find it absolutely @(*()$ absurd that weapons like the Soma are better than the Latron (even the Prime) in every imaginable way - even accuracy - despite being "classed" as an LMG, which are typically used for a limited range of situations (like holding down a choke point with withering streams of bullets and only hitting stuff due to the same volume of bullets being put into the air and NOT because it has bullS#&$ pin-point accuracy)?

You're insane if you think this is okay and should be allowed to continue. I would go so far as to say people like you are the reason Warframe is the way it is.

first off, dont you ever @(*()$ question my sanity again. ever.
questioning my sanity based on an assumption that im ok with certain things YOU aren't ok with is beyond idiotic in scope, and magnitude.

and no, i am completely fine with weapons hitting hard BECAUSE ITS A @(*()$ PVE GAME. i am NOT in competition with the people i game with, so i dont CARE which of us hits harder with what weapon. there is no grand prize at the run that only goes to the best one, out of four players.

seriously though, you should have a bit more decorum and candor when talking to people you dont know: you never know which insult is going to be the one that brought a very &!$$ed off person to your doorstep.

Edit: Warframe is the way it is because the developers are putting it that way. did you ever stop to consider for a sec that there are other people playing warframe? not just you? hmmm maybe, just maybe, DE is trying to make a game that can attract and hold a large demographic. you cant please everyone, and maybe they aren't aiming to please YOU. Edited November 9, 2013 by ObviousLee

[bobafetthotmail]

You know what else has a long barrel? Snipers. DMRs. LMGs. HMGs. Basically any long gun (named for the long barrel they sport - duh). It's an LMG, there's no way in hell it could be classified as anything else.

Light machineguns can't be fired like rifles due to recoil issues afaik. Ditto for Heavy machineguns. They are called support weapons for a reason. Another of the possible reasons they removed Gorgon (that is supposed to be a LMG and is used by augmented heavy gunners)

 

Really, the Soma is an assault rifle. That is, a rifle with automatic fire capability. Even the model hints at that, with a 40-ish bullet mag and all that. Also its description.

 

It hits like a HMG and they gave it insane amounts of ammo per clip like a real machinegun because the devs don't play the game and have no idea about what fits and what does not, but it was theoretically supposed to be an assault rifle.

[Volthorne]

Light machineguns can't be fired like rifles due to recoil issues afaik. Ditto for Heavy machineguns. They are called support weapons for a reason. Another of the possible reasons they removed Gorgon (that is supposed to be a LMG and is used by augmented heavy gunners)

 

Really, the Soma is an assault rifle. That is, a rifle with automatic fire capability. Even the model hints at that, with a 40-ish bullet mag and all that. Also its description.

 

It hits like a HMG and they gave it insane amounts of ammo per clip like a real machinegun because the devs don't play the game and have no idea about what fits and what does not, but it was theoretically supposed to be an assault rifle.

LMGs CAN be fired without needing to be deployed or set up like HMGs. That is why they're called "LIGHT Machine Guns". The old Japanese Type-xx guns were essentially LMGs (you know, the guns that the Soma is based on?). The Soma is an LMG - and was meant to be so - no way about getting around it: it has the fire rate and clip-size to suit one (100 bullet mag and 15 RpS? Assault Rifle my &#!). One of two things out-of-palce where stats are concerned is that it is insanely @(*()$ accurate (way too accurate) and its crit chance is also bullS#&$ (it should crit a lot by the sheer number of rounds it fires, not because it has an arbitrarily high chance to do so).

 

I will agree with you that the Devs have no @(*()$ clue what they're doing, though. It's like they've never developed a game before. Oh, wait....

Edited November 9, 2013 by Volthorne

[Destro6677]

No. Prime weapons don't need buffs, it's the OP weapons that need nerfs, alongside the botched enemy scaling.

 

DE screwed up big time with the power creep, and increasing damage on stuff won't fix anything, just make it worse.

Asking for buffs on top of buffs is nonsense. People already don't bother putting potatoes and forma into anything tht has a prime version because of this reason.

[Destro6677]

Because most players have this $&*&*#(%& obsession with damage.

 

Constant bragging about their new toy. 

 

 

These are human problems and buffing the prime weapons will not solve it. 

 

It's basically like comparing the size of your $&*^s at that point.

 

Here's what you can do: Get better at the game. Size doesn't count for much if you don't have the skills to use it.

[taiiat]

the answer is NEVER to just make everything more powerful. 

 

that's exactly why the enemies get balance changes around so often. because they try to keep up. then people complain when they're a minor challenge, and get scaled back a bit.

 

far, far better off not screwing with the entire game constantly. it's faster and cheaper to keep other weapons from getting out of hand, instead of rebuilding the entire game every time a new weapon exists. 

 

Digital Extremes has enough on their plate, dealing with this crap shouldn't be part of it.

 

edit:

im sorry but i cannot get behind the concept of "power creep" in a PVE game

well, don't come complaining that you're bored in the near future when you get tired of all of the content being continuously removed from the game, effectively wasting Development time. 

 

god forbid anyone would want to have fun with a game. being Overpowered isn't fun, you got bored of it in the past 23593553 PvE games you've played too. they all take the easy way out, and people complain they got bored when they got what they asked for. 

 

it's happened in every single game throughout history, so actually learning from the past like an intelligent being, is the only logical option. otherwise, the definition of Insanity, repeating the exact same thing over and over and expecting another outcome, will continue to run rampant. 

 

"but we did exactly the same thing as every other game i got bored of! why didn't it work here?"

Edited November 9, 2013 by taiiat

[ScrubbyDubDub]

Dakra prime does more damage than the Machete Wraith (55 vs 45), and has a much faster attack rate (1.3 vs 1.0)

The Dakra prime is MUCH better than the Machete Wraith.

 

Also, Braton Prime isn't actually that bad, But you can't compare a primed version of a starting weapon to one of the best end-game weapons in the game.

 

In my opinion, the only prime weapon that needs a slight buff is the latron prime

Edited November 10, 2013 by Mozes_Bunny

[bobafetthotmail]

LMGs CAN be fired without needing to be deployed or set up like HMGs.

If you want suppressive fire yes, but it's not anywhere like accurate beyond the first shot due to recoil. And it's heavier than an assault rifle so it's tiring to use like one (short-range suppressive fire is shot from the hip semi-rambo style).

 

Soma is.... pretty damn accurate even after half a clip of full auto shooting. lolwtf?

 

 

Dakra prime does more damage than the Machete Wraith (55 vs 45), and has a much faster attack rate (1.3 vs 1.0)

The Dakra prime is MUCH better than the Machete Wraith.

*Cough* Armor Ignore *Cough*

[Volthorne]

If you want suppressive fire yes, but it's not anywhere like accurate beyond the first shot due to recoil. And it's heavier than an assault rifle so it's tiring to use like one (short-range suppressive fire is shot from the hip semi-rambo style).

 

Soma is.... pretty damn accurate even after half a clip of full auto shooting. lolwtf?

Again, Soma was SUPPOSED to be an LMG, evidenced by the large clip and RoF, and even the design supports this stance (no sane person puts a huge mag like that in an AR). Plus, no one takes an LMG for it's per-shot accuracy, they take it for the sheer number of bullets it puts down-range, making it extremely likely you'll catch a bad case of death if you walk into its field of fire.

 

Again, DE #*($%%@ up by making it incredibly accurate and giving it way too high of a crit chance.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Volthorne

[bobafetthotmail]

Again, Soma was SUPPOSED to be an LMG,

Ummmmmmm. No. Its description and magazine in the 3D model clearly indicate that it's an assault rifle. The magazine does not contain more than 35-40 shots, and it's open so it's easy to count the bullets. And Accuracy combined with a massive magazine make the SOMA assault rifle a formidable weapon. is its description.

 

Then someone decided to go overboard with stats because was probably looking at lolcat videos instead of focusing on the job.

[ObviousLee]

Again, Soma was SUPPOSED to be an LMG, evidenced by the large clip and RoF, and even the design supports this stance (no sane person puts a huge mag like that in an AR).

 

Again, DE #*($%%@ up by making it incredibly accurate and giving it way too high of a crit chance.

man oh man do you seem to enjoy calling peoples sanity into question dontcha.

 

not taking anything you ever post seriously anymore due to all most of your posts consisting of whining and complaining.

[Volthorne]

Ummmmmmm. No. Its description and magazine in the 3D model clearly indicate that it's an assault rifle. The magazine does not contain more than 35-40 shots, and it's open so it's easy to count the bullets. And Accuracy combined with a massive magazine make the SOMA assault rifle a formidable weapon. is its description.

 

Then someone decided to go overboard with stats because was probably looking at lolcat videos instead of focusing on the job.

And Volt's description implies he's a "viable alternative" to gunplay but we know better, right? That magazine hold 100 bullets, not "40" as you seem to suggest. It is not open-sided, those are protrusions for the feeding mechanism to grab onto so it can feed the magazine up through the gun as you fire (gravity is still in effect, you know. The magazine doesn't just magically gain upward momentum as you fire). Plus, why would you even want an open-sided magazine? One well-placed shot and your gun is f*cked.

 

If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it must BE a duck regardless of the name you give it.

 

man oh man do you seem to enjoy calling peoples sanity into question dontcha.

 

not taking anything you ever post seriously anymore due to all most of your posts consisting of whining and complaining.

I'm not sure if I care if you take me seriously or not because I'm fairly certain no one ever took you seriously (because your fall-back arguments are not at all unreasonable and don't reuse the same garbage over and over 90% of the time). There's probably a reason I have half of your post count despite only playing for a few weeks and you being a Grand Master and all. Also there's this thing called "logic". Perhaps you might want to look it up in a dictionary.

Edited November 10, 2013 by Volthorne