Veil Proxima Orphix Mission is Horrible

[Drasiel]

1 hour ago, KitMeHarder said:

@Drasiel I went and tested the veil proxima solo and easily got to the C rotation, so idk what issue you'd be having.

The Orphix were level 91 when I left.

It might be to do with Void Rig, here's what I've been using:

Same build as I used on Venus. I can give Void Rig a run in a few days and see if I fair any better. I have a suspicion arquebex might be carrying the day if so having only one half of all mechs capable of completing it isn't great either .

[KitMeHarder]

4 hours ago, Drasiel said:

I have a suspicion arquebex might be carrying the day if so having only one half of all mechs capable of completing it isn't great either

The whole reason Bonewidow was usable before was because Ironbride ignored the Orphix's damage attenuation I believe. If they "fixed" that, then Bonewidow would suck. Plus, I thought you said the spawn rate/scaling was the issue? Seemed normal to me.

[Vaml77]

before this update we had the orphix event and it didn't get much praise from the community....and the DE was alerted before putting this mission on railjack. The failure was total....due to numerous factors. The movement of necramechs in small places is horrible and we get stuck around every corner....the second reason is that the rewards are not good and the speed to appear orphix is greater than the past event itself....it's quite hard to do alone. It's an event that's been heavily criticized and I hope they'll remove it from railjack missions and never come back as an event. DE experienced this event and yet inserted it into railjack's missions. Nobody wants to suffer playing this nonsense.

[Drasiel]

On 2022-01-08 at 3:28 AM, KitMeHarder said:

The whole reason Bonewidow was usable before was because Ironbride ignored the Orphix's damage attenuation I believe. If they "fixed" that, then Bonewidow would suck. Plus, I thought you said the spawn rate/scaling was the issue? Seemed normal to me.

Yeah I said the spawn rate scaling was the issue because the speed the orphix ramp up to 3 spawns and how fast they raise sentient control is so much faster than the lower level missions and so much faster than the original event. However if Arquebex is way faster at killing them than iron bride then the spawn rate will appear to be more normal for void rig players while out of control for bone widow.

Look at it this way numbers are just examples

• say Spawn rate is 15 seconds:
• Arquebex takes 5 seconds to kill orphix during event.
• Iron bride takes 7 seconds to kill orphix during event.

By 30 orphixes  due to scaling it takes:

• Arquebex takes 10 seconds to kill orphix during event.
• Iron bride takes 14 seconds to kill orphix during event.

In that example despite arquebex being faster both weapons stay below "par" for destroying orphixes.

For the current veil proxima mission (and again numbers are just examples)

• Say spawn rate is 10 seconds
• Arquebex takes 5 seconds to kill orphix during the mission.
• Iron bride takes 7 seconds to kill orphix during the mission

By 8 orphixes  due to scaling it takes:

• Arquebex takes 10 seconds to kill orphix during the mission
• Iron bride takes 14 seconds to kill orphix during the mission

In that example you wouldn't necessarily notice the spawn and scaling changes with arquebex because it stays at "par" but you would notice it with iron bride because it's kill speed is no longer under "par". And that's assuming as you've suggested, which might not be the case anymore, that Iron bride is still ignoring their damage attenuation which I don't have a way to test for and I can no longer tell you how many swings it took to kill individual orphixes of that level during the event.

anyway I should be able to get on and do a veil orphix run later today.

 

[Drasiel]

@KitMeHarderNope same exact experience with void rig on Veil Proxima Got to 10 because void rig died twice. By the time I hit 4 orphixes there are already 2 on the map every time By the time I hit 8 orphixes there's constant 3 on the map and control is at 60%. No idea why it's so easy for you.

[KitMeHarder]

@Drasiel ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Idk, but the two deaths are probably a significant part of it. If you're good on energy and you don't think you'll be above 20% health by the time Repair is off cooldown, then cast Storm Shroud. 

Here is my Voidrig build, and my Aruebex is the same as yours. 

Feel free to ask for tips or clarification.

[Drasiel]

4 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

@Drasiel ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Idk, but the two deaths are probably a significant part of it. If you're good on energy and you don't think you'll be above 20% health by the time Repair is off cooldown, then cast Storm Shroud. 

Here is my Voidrig build, and my Aruebex is the same as yours. 

Feel free to ask for tips or clarification.

Storm shroud was barely tanking the damage by the 5th orphix and thats with charging it off the incoming damage from the sentients. Our builds are very similiar with the difference being necramech efficiency over thrusters (less engine spent vs more engine to start with) necramech refuel over slipstream (engine regen over sliding speed) necramech auger and redirection to recover larger portions of shields vs continuity and enemy senses.

So arquebex will cost a bit less in your build due to continuity and you might be moving faster with slide speed. Continuity might improve my performance a bit because the reasons I died was because I ran out of energy. but we shouldn't be this far apart in performance.

Edit: It's the slide speed mod  it makes you move almost 3 times faster, it's faster than bullet jumping with your warframe, it's faster than a non fully kitted out with passives operator. I still can't survive worth a damn with void rig especially not after removing necramech redirection and auger but right up until I died 7 orphixes in I was still clearing them before the next one spawned.

[KitMeHarder]

1 hour ago, Drasiel said:

I still can't survive worth a damn with void rig especially not after removing necramech redirection and auger

Except these are the reasons you're out of energy. Ever since its release, Necramech Rage made all shield mods not just useless, but detremental. Not only to fuel Guard Mode, but to fuel Storm Shroud at higher levels. A partial shield gate only gives you 1.3 seconds of invulnerability, where as SS gives you 3 seconds, plus up to 7.8 seconds on average from the absorbtion, and you'll have naturally regened the partial shield gate anyway. Not to mention, you can't use Augur during Guard Mode, but SS can be active.

And to clarify, SS is a window of opertunity to burst something down, not a tanking tool like Iron Skin.

 

Hildryn can also help remedy your energy issues. I had her equipped during that mission, but I didn't end up using her.

1 hour ago, Drasiel said:

It's the slide speed mod  it makes you move almost 3 times faster

Glad someone else apreciates it. You can get even faster with jump cancelling, and using tech midair to circumvent animations.

[Drasiel]

18 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

Except these are the reasons you're out of energy. Ever since its release, Necramech Rage made all shield mods not just useless, but detremental. Not only to fuel Guard Mode, but to fuel Storm Shroud at higher levels. A partial shield gate only gives you 1.3 seconds of invulnerability, where as SS gives you 3 seconds, plus up to 7.8 seconds on average from the absorbtion, and you'll have naturally regened the partial shield gate anyway. Not to mention, you can't use Augur during Guard Mode, but SS can be active.

And to clarify, SS is a window of opertunity to burst something down, not a tanking tool like Iron Skin.

 

Hildryn can also help remedy your energy issues. I had her equipped during that mission, but I didn't end up using her.

Glad someone else apreciates it. You can get even faster with jump cancelling, and using tech midair to circumvent animations.

Yeah at least during the event I found that getting energy was less of a big deal than keeping voidrig alive, it'd take maybe 10-15 seconds of killing to get energy orbs vs the 30+ second cooldown of a dead mech. With the much higher starting level and faster scaling in the Veil Proxima that trade off simply doesn't work anymore. Sadly I always found with Voidrig I needed it to be able to tank at least a little just because of guard mode.

While I appreciate the slide speed mods performance I'm more than a little alarmed by it. It's on paper stats don't come off as it being as HUGE of a deal as it is. Not only that but it's the difference between making it or round C or not. Should a single mod hold that much power over the results of a mission? Like this would be like capture missions requiring rush to be equipped in order to catch the target.

[KitMeHarder]

22 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

Not only that but it's the difference between making it or round C or not. Should a single mod hold that much power over the results of a mission? Like this would be like capture missions requiring rush to be equipped in order to catch the target.

I mean if you have the skill/hardware, the operator is still faster (and there's always Nova, Titania, Wukong, etc...). Plus Idk if 3x faster is really accurate. Try putting 60% bullet jump speed on a warframe, it'd probably feel similar.

28 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

Not only that but it's the difference between making it or round C or not.

And all endurance missions can be solo'd, but most aren't designed to be solo'd.

[Drasiel]

37 minutes ago, KitMeHarder said:

I mean if you have the skill/hardware, the operator is still faster (and there's always Nova, Titania, Wukong, etc...). Plus Idk if 3x faster is really accurate. Try putting 60% bullet jump speed on a warframe, it'd probably feel similar.

And all endurance missions can be solo'd, but most aren't designed to be solo'd.

There is no other mission in the game where It's been this difficult to reach rotation C solo outside of some steel path interceptions (and that's more to do with tiny maps and x4 spawns). It's expected to be harder to solo but Veil Proxima Orphix are still an outlier by a wide margin. The big jump in difficulty is still coming from the spawn speed and honestly I think it ruins the accessibility of the mode for most players and keeps eidolons as the far better option for farming arcanes above and beyond the fact that you can get 9 in 50 minutes of effort and don't have to go through the entire railjack side of the game to even access  it.  So yeah there's a mod that fixes that but I don't think that means veil proxima are in a good place difficulty wise especially for effort vs reward and time spent vs reward.

[KitMeHarder]

11 minutes ago, Drasiel said:

The big jump in difficulty is still coming from the spawn speed and honestly I think it ruins the accessibility of the mode for most players and keeps eidolons as the far better option for farming arcanes

IMO the spawn speed is what keeps it barely relevant. Remember, there's no shop like the event, so more Orphix = more arcanes. Having a team of 3+ people so you can insta-kill each Orphix as it spawns in is why you want the fast spawn rate.

I would never farm arcanes here solo. And I definitely wouldn't if the Orphix spawned slower.

[Drasiel]

16 hours ago, KitMeHarder said:

IMO the spawn speed is what keeps it barely relevant. Remember, there's no shop like the event, so more Orphix = more arcanes. Having a team of 3+ people so you can insta-kill each Orphix as it spawns in is why you want the fast spawn rate.

I would never farm arcanes here solo. And I definitely wouldn't if the Orphix spawned slower.

That's great for multiplayer people but There's no reason why the spawn speed can't be lower solo than it is in multiplayer. The game already does this for interception, survival, and other non steel path missions. Also if you can't fight eidolons, and I do mean can't as in are physically unable to that just leaves orphixes.

Compared to Eidolons even with the spawn speed as it is Orphix will not be relevant for acquiring arcanes unless you have no other option. Say you have a perfect orphix team that stands on each spawn zone and kills them as they come in, that's still going to take what 10 minutes for the first part of the mission and say 15 minutes to get to rotation C where all the arcanes are. We'll say 25 minutes to get the first rotation C and we'll be generous and say that it takes the same 15 minutes every time to get to the next rotation C despite scaling to get 2 arcanes it's 40 minutes to get 3 arcanes it's 55 mintues to get 4 arcanes it's 1h 10 minutes. Eidolons give you 9 in 55 minutes and require just as a coordinated a team. Despite orphixes being available all the time they will never make up the difference in arcane acquisition because it takes so damn long to get any.  Any way the rewards of orphixes aren't really the purpose of the topic even if it is it's own issue.

[Mr.NoodleHair]

I think I got to rotation C once, but it wasn't solo. Veil Proxima Orphix missions, or rather, Orphix missions in Railjack in general are almost impossible to do solo, because the orphixes spawn in way, way too fast. I wasn't around when Orphix Venom was a thing, but I love the game mode and I want to do it more. Only problem is, connecting to groups on railjack is pain, and I'd rather do Railjack stuff solo, and Oprhix can't be done solo.

Tweaking down the spawn rates would be amazing tbh. It'd give us another avenue to farm arcanes without it being incredibly difficult.