Get Rid Of Energy Siphon And Make It A Passive For All Frames.

[Destro6677]

ES is fine as it is. Anything that stops people from mindless 4 4 4 spamming is good.

 

Remember that most games that have passive power regen also have cooldown timers on abilites.Warframe doesn't have cooldown timers, aside from those powers that affect enemies for a period of time, like Nekros's Terrify.

 

Pull and Molecular prime spamming is bad as it is, don't make it even more ridiculous by adding passive energy regen by default.

The problem is really the community which doesn't want cooldowns and the way the game is set up. Go to high level defense without a Frost, and you will end up spamming 444 to crowd control the enemies.

 

As much as I want to see energy siphon become a passive to avoid RNG troubles, real work has to be put in.

 

I think a base rate of 1 energy regeneration per second is fine IF there is no other way to get energy other than the passive.

 

Then, tank frames can stick with the base rate eg Rhino, Saryn, which corresponds to their low max energy pools, while caster frames like Nova can get a passive incremental boost. To that end, Nova's M-Prime should have an increased energy cost when ranked up to keep the balance and decrease ultimate spamming.

[notionphil]

Everyone here is kind of missing the point that since most players use energy siphon you can take your own off and still get passive energy regen.

Having said that, I agree with the OP. I don't see why we don't gain energy in a more interesting way such as headshots, parkour kills or similar.

[Sunder]

Hayden Tenno of DarkSector had self regenerating energy. Just sayin' =p

[Anarties]

Hayden Tenno of DarkSector had self regenerating energy. Just sayin' =p

Damn son.

[Sunder]

Damn son.

Was displayed rather cool too. His infected arm had blue/white energy that could be seen in it. When using an ability it'd drain until the "lights" went out. Over time it'd recharge and the blue-ish energy would flow back through his arm.

 

To be honest kinda reminded me of when our warframes shield recharges after being depleted

[AuroraSonicBoom]

Amongst friends I always argued that a compromise would be the best solution for the siphon problem. Have all frames regen 0.3 energy/s naturally and nerf energy siphon to give a max of 0.3 (or0.4).

[Lyker]

I agree. I even want serration mod gone and give the weapon +dmg based on rank

[Azira]

I think the ES problem is indicative of two sub-problems. The first is that abilities in this game are spam, not tactical. Because the enemies offer no tactical depth, there's not really any choice in when you use your abilities. It's far too spammy, so relying on RNG for orb drops can be frustrating when you need to spam. Making the enemies smarter will solve this by allowing energy usage to be more tactical since the enemies won't have to rely on spamming napalms as much. The second problem is that some auras are just blatantly better than others, especially since aura slots are polarized. On many frames, there's just not much reason to use certain mods. This can be solved by a rebalancing, pretty much. Make auras relatively equal in value.

[Sakunai]

energy regen should be a standard across frames. At the least, a "energy for kills" or "energy for blocked damage" mod would be great for non-DPS caster frames.

Gaining energy from blocking would be a great mod!  I like that!

[luanle21]

There is no reason for Energy Siphon to be an aura at all.

 

First off, if energy is such a staple, why are we forced to use an aura or wait for a blue ball to fly out of the brains of our enemies in order to power up our suits.

 

For such an advanced race, we should slowly recharge energy on our own without needing to get those little blue balls.

 

This would allow for other mods to be used and for the way the game works to be a little different.

 

I'm pretty sure we've all been in situations in which we had no energy left(whether that be with or without Energy Siphon)and we either died because we did not have Energy Siphon or lived because we did.

 

There is no reason to not have Energy Siphon as a passive.

 

1) Everyone uses energy. Most games have ways to recharge mana/magic/energy without having to scavenge an area hoping for a stupid blue ball to drop.

 

2) I am stick of starting off missions and not finding a single aura ball until I'm balls deep into 100+ enemies all because RnG was not on my side. If I did have it then I could at least turtle a bit and slowly pick off enemies casting skills as time goes on, but what about those who lack it? They are toast.

 

3) Recharging energy is practically a mandate, it is literally better than all aura because of what it does and how valuable energy is.

 

At least let Energy Siphon being a growing passive among frames, each with their own recharge rates or something to make frames stand apart from each other even more than they do now.

 

That way we can use other aura and have more diversity among aura that are chosen.

 

EDIT: Another opinion was to add new ways to gain energy aside from the balls. Perhaps enemy kills can allow us to gain energy as well.

better yet (probably not)

if u add a reactor u get energy regen at .8 sec and hp at .4 a sec

so we get a bit more benefit from it

without reactor u get energy regen at .5 sec and hp at .2 sec

[Phobose]

There is no reason for Energy Siphon to be an aura at all.

 

First off, if energy is such a staple, why are we forced to use an aura or wait for a blue ball to fly out of the brains of our enemies in order to power up our suits.

 

For such an advanced race, we should slowly recharge energy on our own without needing to get those little blue balls.

 

This would allow for other mods to be used and for the way the game works to be a little different.

 

I'm pretty sure we've all been in situations in which we had no energy left(whether that be with or without Energy Siphon)and we either died because we did not have Energy Siphon or lived because we did.

 

There is no reason to not have Energy Siphon as a passive.

 

1) Everyone uses energy. Most games have ways to recharge mana/magic/energy without having to scavenge an area hoping for a stupid blue ball to drop.

 

2) I am stick of starting off missions and not finding a single aura ball until I'm balls deep into 100+ enemies all because RnG was not on my side. If I did have it then I could at least turtle a bit and slowly pick off enemies casting skills as time goes on, but what about those who lack it? They are toast.

 

3) Recharging energy is practically a mandate, it is literally better than all aura because of what it does and how valuable energy is.

 

At least let Energy Siphon being a growing passive among frames, each with their own recharge rates or something to make frames stand apart from each other even more than they do now.

 

That way we can use other aura and have more diversity among aura that are chosen.

 

EDIT: Another opinion was to add new ways to gain energy aside from the balls. Perhaps enemy kills can allow us to gain energy as well.

 

 

I'll explain a few points on why this change shouldn't be necessary.

 

1) "Energy" is basically fuel for their abilities, think of the warframe as a machine that needs a secondary fuel to run its non-main components.

 

2) That would defeat the purpose of the pressure put on you when you're A: Low health No Energy and you have to think more critically on your next move. B: Low Energy Single target weapons and a Group of enemies. Lastly C: You're surrounded no energy but can take a hit and you need to cleave your way out of the enemies.

 

3) The passive regeneration allows people from literally sitting down in situation A and sit down and take it the easy way out, wait for your energy to hit the certain amount to blow all those baddies away and walk away. That's easy and thats not the Tenno way, you defeat and escape your enemies no matter what situation.

 

4) That passive ruins the Energy reduction debuff from nightmare mode. That in all honesty makes it more run and fight instead of shoop shoop everythings dead.

 

People who only use Energy Siphon as an aura don't know the benefits of the others and if they wanna stay that way than thats fine by the rest of us. ur giving us energy regen.

[ToeSama]

With how many options there are to conserve/restore energy now, I don't see it myself. It would be nice if we get a way to purchase passive abilities for individual frames outside of the mod system, but right now it works fine.

Edited November 11, 2013 by ToeSama

[Madotsuki]

The primary argument against having energy regen as a given passive for all frames is that players will just sit in a room and wait until their energy regens so they can go to the next room and throw an ult. Of course, the problem to this argument is that long as you have an ES aura you can do that anyway, so the argument is pretty much invalid.

 

I do think that the best option would be a sort of compromise. Allow Warframes to regen energy, but not automatically. Instead, Warframes will get a little amount of energy every time they get a kill, not in the form of the orbs, the frame just gains energy instantly when you get a kill. Like, 5 energy per mook kill, 10 for advanced units, 15 per heavy/elite, etc. Blue orbs will still exist at their current drop rates, as sort of "bonus" energy. ES will be nerfed by half its efficiency.

 

This way you can get a stable and reliable income of energy by killing things (which you are supposed to do), but you have to be active and can't just camp in an empty room waiting for your next ult.

 

Also ability kills won't get you energy, only weapon kills will. Ability kills CAN still result in energy orbs through RNG, of course.

 

Thoughts?

Edited November 11, 2013 by Madotsuki

[Phobose]

The primary argument against having energy regen as a given passive for all frames is that players will just sit in a room and wait until their energy regens so they can go to the next room and throw an ult. Of course, the problem to this argument is that long as you have an ES aura you can do that anyway, so the argument is pretty much invalid.

 

I do think that the best option would be a sort of compromise. Allow Warframes to regen energy, but not automatically. Instead, Warframes will get a little amount of energy every time they get a kill, not in the form of the orbs, the frame just gains energy instantly when you get a kill. Like, 5 energy per mook kill, 10 for advanced units, 15 per heavy/elite, etc. Blue orbs will still exist at their current drop rates, as sort of "bonus" energy. ES will be nerfed by half its efficiency.

 

This way you can get a stable and reliable income of energy by killing things (which you are supposed to do), but you have to be active and can't just camp in an empty room waiting for your next ult.

 

Also ability kills won't get you energy, only weapon kills will. Ability kills CAN still result in energy orbs through RNG, of course.

 

Thoughts?

Would be an interesting weapon mod But I would say as a passive No.

[ThePresident777]

/signed

[Madotsuki]

Would be an interesting weapon mod But I would say as a passive No.

Could you give a counter-argument instead of just saying "no"?

[ToeSama]

Could you give a counter-argument instead of just saying "no"?

 

Energy isn't limited like it was in the past. Between ES, restoration totems, mods like Equilibrium and the new corrupted mods helping to up Energy Efficiency (to the point that we now know what the roof number for that is), we're not suffering much in the way of lack of energy restoration options as we have before. I agree that a mod for kill = 1 energy per rank would be neat, but as a passive it's giving too much where there is already enough.

Edited November 11, 2013 by ToeSama

[Madotsuki]

Energy isn't limited like it was in the past. Between ES, restoration totems, mods like Equilibrium and the new corrupted mods helping to up Energy Efficiency (to the point that we now know what the roof number for that is), we're not suffering much in the way of lack of energy restoration options as we have before. I agree that a mod for kill = 1 energy per rank would be neat, but as a passive it's giving too much where there is already enough.

You have a point that energy isn't exactly very scarce in most situations. It just seems irritating that the default method of acquiring energy is completely reliant on RNG drops, and the only way to acquire a reliable method of getting energy is through having certain mods, which, AGAIN, require RNG to attain in the first place. Restoration totems are way too expensive to craft to justify making them a "thing" that you are expected to use.

I suppose for now the energy system is "reasonable". There must be some way to improve it further though.

[Wolfstorm18]

Warframe has always operated on a fake difficulty.

 

More enemies =/= a challenge.

 

Enemy tactics = challenge.

 

I agree with you in this point. I dont see a reason to care to make scores killing level 150+ ancients when they are just bullet-sponges, and operate the same way as level 50 ancients. Thats why I always asking for more enemy variety, to release new enemies instead of new guns, that can use warframes powers, shoot barrels, nullify Nova's M-Prime, use Nyx powers on allies in invasion mode, etc. Thats why I approved the buff in the Stalker, he's not a bullet sponge, he falls with few shots, but he's intelligent and each time I find him he plays some trick.

 

But I have to disagree in turning Energy Siphon in a passive, because of this:

 

They addressed this issue before and said they don't want people standing around waiting for energy to build up. More Energy Regen would encourage this and invalidate Energy orbs to an extent.

 

The trolling noobs, who can only play with kunai and despair as secondaries, will be afk until their energy restores, and you will be left alone fighting the enemy. This will cause a new issue similar to the rushing problem some time ago, but in a inverse direction.

 

Also you dont need Energy Syphon on most defense situations, since it spams blue globes everywhere, especially in tower defense. You just have to use Streamline and Fleeting Expertise on your frame, made some energy packs (they are very useful). My Vauban dont use it when fighting against infested in that Corpus ship map (Callisto or Xini), he have Rifle Scavenger instead, and deploy with a Ignis without the Ammo Mutation mod. This is what he's using for that map at this moment (build B): Tesla, Bounce, Bastille, Blind Rage T8, Fleeting Expertise T5, Rush T5, Vitality T9, Redirection T8, Streamline T5, and Stretch T5 (Im still testing with this last one, will probably put Continuity T4 in its place). For the Void Derelict defense he uses another configuration (build A), which substitutes Bounce for Vortex, Focus T4 in place of BR and Constitution T3 in place of FE, and he's also with Rifle Scavenger on this one. In case I run out of energy I use the medium energy pack. With build A and energy packs I've got to wave 40 in derelict defense, along with a Frost and a Rhino, and had used energy packs for the Frost more than once since he ran out of energy. So yes, its possible to play without Energy Syphon.

[Llyssa]

I always love these "I'm an incompetent player, I *wish* I could use other mods, but I suck too much to change my build." threads.

 

They always try to incorporate a sense of community by using "we" and pretending their lack of skill is a universal issue that everyone suffers.

 

Why they never argue for the complete removal of the mods system(which would make FAR more sense than their "FIX MY CRUTCH!" cries) makes no sense.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/120177-easy-mode/

[Sonoka]

Energy siphon should be on all warframes, but at different rates. If DE doesn't want universal energy siphon, then give us energy on kills instead of balls. The current energy system is too random, if RNG hates you, you'll never get to use your Warframe to it's fullest extent.

 

I realized DE has said that they don't want people standing around. Then make energy recovered per kill, and rework current energy siphon.

 

All abilities should have cooldowns. If RNG is favorable in the current system, this means you can spam ulti's all day, everyday. I'm talking about 25 energy Ash Bladestorms. Or Infinite Iron Skin on Rhino. Or Infinite Chaos/Absorb on Nyx. Or Infinite Invisibility on Loki.

 

Also, more enemy variety and a better story would be nice, but's that's off the thread topic.

 

That is my opinion, of course.

 

EDIT: Actually, why don't they just get rid of energy? Making all abilities cooldown based would be better, don't you think?

Edited November 12, 2013 by Sonoka

[Anarties]

I always love these "I'm an incompetent player, I *wish* I could use other mods, but I suck too much to change my build." threads.

 

They always try to incorporate a sense of community by using "we" and pretending their lack of skill is a universal issue that everyone suffers.

 

Why they never argue for the complete removal of the mods system(which would make FAR more sense than their "FIX MY CRUTCH!" cries) makes no sense.

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/120177-easy-mode/

Are you kidding me right now?

 

Grow up you child.

 

I don't have time for your insolence.

[ToeSama]

Restoration totems are way too expensive to craft to justify making them a "thing" that you are expected to use.

 

Really? A one time expenditure of 250,000 credits (something you can make running void missions of any tier for a day) for a 10 pack from your dojo or the shop, with a craft time of 1 minute, and a very piddly cost of either Ferrite, Alloy Plate, Nano Spores and/or Polymer Bundles? Those things are easy to craft if you're using your resources and credits wisely (which everyone should be doing anyways, especially after double resource weekend).

 

If you don't have the creds to invest in the big 10 packs, you can buy the single blueprint instead and craft em 1 at a time, for a slightly higher end resource cost on multiple craftings though. All in all, you may not even need more than 2-3 a run depending.

 

The team totem items are so affordable and useful it's a wonder we even dealt with the ammo boxes and team restores of old...

 

[size=1]Now if only the heal totems would pick up dying allies again...[/size]

Edited November 12, 2013 by ToeSama

[Liminal]

I prefer Rifle Amp tbh, but in many frames I have ES installed. I'd prefer weapon swap speed, but for some reason they made it give us less points :/

[wtrmlnjuc]

I've got to disagree. Energy Siphon, like all other auras, are optional, and they're used for your team. This way, other auras like Rifle Amp, Enemy Radar, etc. can be equipped by other teammates which would give all of your team their powers. Warframe survived fine without Energy Siphon, even without auras (back when we had artifacts), as the energy orbs are here and aplenty. If in cases where there are not many, learn to shoot, dodge, and move better.