Regarding Operators and overguard breaking

[doommoose22]

The amps should have an inherent 1000% damage boost to overguard or do a % based chunk of overguards health to promote the use of them to break eximus units. As it stands currently there is no reason to use them over the current brute force harder that a lot of players are doing due to the pitiful amount of damage amps do in comparison to anything frames can throw out unless you're using madurai; but even that just means popping out to buff and then going back to the frame to use the 10x on your better weapons to dispatch them.

[xXDragonGodXx]

On 2022-04-27 at 5:02 PM, [DE]Megan said:

AMP SPIKE

• Transfer to Operator with 8x Combo Multiplier to increase Amp Damage by 100% for 40s.

 

As seen above, the Naramon school has something to increase the damage you can do with an amp. So as good as Madurai is, the whole game and especially the schools are purely play style.

[DarkSkysz]

1 hour ago, xXDragonGodXx said:

As seen above, the Naramon school has something to increase the damage you can do with an amp. So as good as Madurai is, the whole game and especially the schools are purely play style.

You missed the point.

Amps don't have mods to increase their dmg. Like, why would you use that void beam to tickle the overguard when you can use a kuva bramma to blow it?

The whole point of the update was to make operators more important in the gameplay, but they forgot some revelant stuff.

[Somnia]

1 hour ago, xXDragonGodXx said:

As seen above, the Naramon school has something to increase the damage you can do with an amp. So as good as Madurai is, the whole game and especially the schools are purely play style.

So you're saying, per the OP topic, that Naramon should be considered mandatory to cope with overguard now?

[EinheriarJudith]

33 minutes ago, DarkSkysz said:

Amps don't have mods to increase their dmg

[EinheriarJudith]

21 minutes ago, Somnia said:

So you're saying, per the OP topic, that Naramon should be considered mandatory to cope with overguard now?

madurai double dips with void strike and eternal eradicate.

[xXDragonGodXx]

10 hours ago, Somnia said:

So you're saying, per the OP topic, that Naramon should be considered mandatory to cope with overguard now?

No, I'm not saying that Naramon should be considered mandatory to cope with overguard. And in fact what I did say was that it has to do with playstyle.

Naramon is now more than before the AoZ update, more targeted towards melee mains, and you can see how "Amp Spike" reflects this. Please note that there is few ways to get 8x Combo counter without a good melee build and, Note this next word as it is imperative and important that you do so, PLAYSTYLE.

I hope this cleared it up for you.

[xXDragonGodXx]

11 hours ago, DarkSkysz said:

You missed the point.

Amps don't have mods to increase their dmg. Like, why would you use that void beam to tickle the overguard when you can use a kuva bramma to blow it?

The whole point of the update was to make operators more important in the gameplay, but they forgot some revelant stuff.

They didn't forget some relevant stuff, and rather than looking at what "mods" you can or cannot put somewhere, you could look at what alternatives allready exists and try to make something apply nicely to your playstyle. If you want to blow up every eximus, then go ahead, that might be your playstyle. But remember that there is alternatives to using arcanes and mods. Hell, I'm a umbra main, that have just been soloing the bounties at the zariman with a sirocco. So I do in fact get the point, and you should re-read the original post.

[(XBOX)Kuhl MC]

Armor stripping with Unairu also works quite well, just saying.

[doommoose22]

The main problem is still an issue though, why bother using amps to bust the eximus when you can do it more efficiently and in a group with anything else, I'm merely pointing out the fact that they missed the mark in trying to make operators useful in breaking down eximus defenses since the +50% void damage doesn't do anything notable for something that takes way more investment of time and resources than just properly fitting out a frame

[DarkSkysz]

17 hours ago, EinheriarJudith said:

You know its an arcane and not a mod, right?

 

  

6 hours ago, xXDragonGodXx said:

bounties at the zariman

Try do the same in steel path... the scalling of those overguards are way too high for some enemies...

I mean, one shock moa in orb survived 10 bramma shots. Thats enough arrows to kill a t5 lich/sister xD

[EinheriarJudith]

Just now, DarkSkysz said:

You know its an arcane and not a mod, right?

you do realize that arcanes are mods right?

[DarkSkysz]

3 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

you do realize that arcanes are mods right?

They are not.

[EinheriarJudith]

2 minutes ago, DarkSkysz said:

They are not.

whatever you need to tell yourself. 

• has a slot just like mods
• ranks up just like mods
• drops just like mods
• has rarity rating just like mods (in fact shares the same rarity colors. bronze, silver, gold, platinum)

dont be ignorant of these facts.

[DarkSkysz]

5 minutes ago, EinheriarJudith said:

dont be ignorant of these facts.

Sugar and salt are both white, but are not the same thing.

Dont be stupid about these facts =)

 

Arcanes can function like mods, but are not the same thing.

Simple thing can prove you are wrong. Mod drop booster doesnt affect arcanes.

[EinheriarJudith]

20 minutes ago, DarkSkysz said:

Simple thing can prove you are wrong. Mod drop booster doesnt affect arcanes.

citation? also mod drop boosters affect endo. endo isnt a mod but they consider it one.

Edit: go to cavalero you will see the mods tab. shows nothing but arcanes. arcanes in fact even use the old mod leveling system.

[PhiZero]

Amp damage against Overguard should be reviewed in general, as it isn't what anyone was expecting with what the workshop hinted at.

A good example of a decent way to handle Amps vs Overguard is L4D2 melee.

Against cannon fodder, Melee is always a OHKO, Specials on the other hand take 1-2 strikes depending on their health pool, and boss encounters take 10 strikes. With headshots dropping most targets in one hit

If Amp damage is converted from dps like our standard weapons, to something resembling more of a hit count bar, it would feel a while lot better.

ie. Shawk prism taking 2 body shots or 1 head shot to pop the Overguard, Propa taking 1 shot on the center of the blast or 2 at the edge, cantic taking 3 bursts to the body or 1 to the head etc.

[doommoose22]

On 2022-05-10 at 4:46 PM, PhiZero said:

Amp damage against Overguard should be reviewed in general, as it isn't what anyone was expecting with what the workshop hinted at.

A good example of a decent way to handle Amps vs Overguard is L4D2 melee.

Against cannon fodder, Melee is always a OHKO, Specials on the other hand take 1-2 strikes depending on their health pool, and boss encounters take 10 strikes. With headshots dropping most targets in one hit

If Amp damage is converted from dps like our standard weapons, to something resembling more of a hit count bar, it would feel a while lot better.

ie. Shawk prism taking 2 body shots or 1 head shot to pop the Overguard, Propa taking 1 shot on the center of the blast or 2 at the edge, cantic taking 3 bursts to the body or 1 to the head etc.

that should definitely be the case, having the shield take a certain number of amp hits to bring down while keeping the abillity to damage through it with normal weapons would be the best way to balance it out, that way on things like steel path you aren't needing to take several shots with the hardest hitting weapons in the game to barely tickle it 

[Steel_Rook]

On 2022-05-10 at 1:35 AM, DarkSkysz said:

Amps don't have mods to increase their dmg. Like, why would you use that void beam to tickle the overguard when you can use a kuva bramma to blow it?

And they really should. Operators, too. The vast majority of the balance issues inherent in Operator gameplay track back to this specific design choice. Because neither Operators nor their weapons have comparable modding capability to Warframes, they're always going to be dramatically underpowered. I don't know by what path of logic DE decided to do this, but I strongly believe that this decision needs to be reconsidered. Railjack started out with a DRASTICALLY superior Avionics system and that was dropped in favour of more mods. So why is Operators' "nothing" of a system not getting integrated into mods, as well?

Yes, I realise this is power creep. It is, however, also bringing our tools in-line with each other. As shoddy as the game's balance may be, it mostly works for Warframe combat (and just about nothing else). Bringing Operators closer to Warframe combat would help alleviate a majority of their current design issues, not to mention reduce the need for silly damage multipliers on them.