What are the biggest flaws of this game?

[mycroft_]

6 hours ago, Skoomaseller said:

tbh I don't see how warframe could run smoothly on a phone, nor can I see proper touchscreen controls/layout. a lot of mobile game controls are notoriously bad

They don't care if it runs well - they care about getting money from it.

They'll get money from it.

[Silligoose]

On 2022-08-08 at 5:51 AM, TheArmchairThinker said:

With huge number they give? There are still different play styles where warframe with cc like nyx still being a rear liner with mind control and chaos while tanks like nidus is a direct front liner. Even with extremely similar play styles there are warframes not being as effective on one position compared to others

Not really. At higher levels of play, when approaching upper limits of power, most frames play pretty much the same way, due to homogenization, lack of balance and band-aid mechanics.

On 2022-08-08 at 5:51 AM, TheArmchairThinker said:

With immense power given, nothing can really challenge you and I'm sick with the "challenge" that end up being massive health with huge damage if you don't use all kind of best damage reducing equipment or abilities, often paired with nonsensical stats to make it impossible to go alone

Even if we tone down damage output, CC in this game invalidate any kind of resistance. Chroma can't blow up the whole map? Have a vauban locking the whole map with bastille or any frame infused with gloom for 90% slow. How is that any challenge now? Only thing that can be added without too much risk of getting an outcry for being "bullet sponge" would be additional objectives when doing missions

Cc is part of the imbalances I spoke of. DE can balance those mechanics properly if they choose. At this point, they choose not to.

On 2022-08-08 at 5:51 AM, TheArmchairThinker said:

Choosing the right element is considered moot when slash and viral becomes the "meta" to this community regardless if there's a better element because it doesn't require much preparation compared to other setup. That's why I suggest to remove slash DoT ignoring armor so it becomes effective on bare flesh and weak against armored enemies. Sure, you can still spam the heck out of slash on grineer but it's no longer a mindless armor ignoring damage and "encourage" players to choose the right element like corrosive

 

You attempt to address a symptom instead of the root imbalance/problem and your solution pigeonholes players. You have a thread where I've explained this and you've yet to provide the proof to your claims there.

On 2022-08-08 at 5:51 AM, TheArmchairThinker said:

Which enemy to target is there from overguard to make sure they're taken down first for their dangerous abilities and heavy units having considerable damage output compared to their peers

Overguard is a band-aid mechanic that affects the game's depth negatively and pigeonholes players into the brute force meta. 

On 2022-08-08 at 5:51 AM, TheArmchairThinker said:

Right times to use an ability is countered with efficiency build and energize/wellspring and we're past that time already where using the ability at the wrong time ends up with longer time or failure. That time is way past and not something I would like to see coming to Warframe

Indeed that part of the depth the game could have is pretty much gone and I don not see balancing around lack of abilitiy availability being viable, so balancing would need to be done around other mechanics pertaining to those abilities.

On 2022-08-08 at 5:51 AM, TheArmchairThinker said:

Where to move and how to move is more for slower pace games, at Warframe pace? It would become almost like that nonsense MLG montages that I find ridiculous

Pace involves the rate at which actions occur and amount of things players have to do in a given timeframe. Warframe's pace is slower when not needing to worry about positioning. If you play with setups, or at levels, where you can't just stand around to smell the flowers, you'll notice the game's pace becomes faster.

[TheArmchairThinker]

13 hours ago, Silligoose said:

Not really. At higher levels of play, when approaching upper limits of power, most frames play pretty much the same way, due to homogenization, lack of balance and band-aid mechanics.

And what range is this "higher levels of play"?

13 hours ago, Silligoose said:

Cc is part of the imbalances I spoke of. DE can balance those mechanics properly if they choose. At this point, they choose not to.

And what kind of "balance" we're talking about? Making them not stopping enemies completely anymore? Just different flavors of slow, stun, stagger and short lived abilities? Might as well tell DE to make Warframe into another generic shooter

13 hours ago, Silligoose said:

You attempt to address a symptom instead of the root imbalance/problem and your solution pigeonholes players. You have a thread where I've explained this and you've yet to provide the proof to your claims there.

Other games don't do this? "Encouraging" teamwork through pigeonholing players into working into multiple roles with nonsensical stats on enemies to create imbalance

13 hours ago, Silligoose said:

Overguard is a band-aid mechanic that affects the game's depth negatively and pigeonholes players into the brute force meta. 

Should overguard also affect brute force meta then? Now you have a super tough enemy requiring both DPS and support to work together to take down

13 hours ago, Silligoose said:

Indeed that part of the depth the game could have is pretty much gone and I don not see balancing around lack of abilitiy availability being viable, so balancing would need to be done around other mechanics pertaining to those abilities.

Such as? The most logical action to some would be nerfing the hell out of things to make them "in line" that I don't find enjoyable and how balance ends up with devs putting enemies with absurd stat as "boss" to get that "power fantasy" by overcoming "difficult encounter"

13 hours ago, Silligoose said:

Pace involves the rate at which actions occur and amount of things players have to do in a given timeframe. Warframe's pace is slower when not needing to worry about positioning. If you play with setups, or at levels, where you can't just stand around to smell the flowers, you'll notice the game's pace becomes faster.

Still can slowed to a crawl if players in question choose to with shooting behind walls and massive amount of CC

[-EPECb-]

Its a disbalance in all you have in game.

- If a pet, then only Smeeta

- If it's a frame, then only Wukong

- If the weapon, then only Bramma

... all this needs to be fixed

[Silligoose]

2 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

And what range is this "higher levels of play"?

Around lvl 130 and beyond in SP.

2 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

And what kind of "balance" we're talking about? Making them not stopping enemies completely anymore? Just different flavors of slow, stun, stagger and short lived abilities? Might as well tell DE to make Warframe into another generic shooter

I find it funny when players want to jump from one extreme to another: "Being able to stun enemies for 20 seconds+ is OP. Guess stun just shouldn't be on the table anymore." Lol that is so short-sighted. That's exactly the line of thinking DE used with Overguard.  There is a middle ground between being able to stun enemies for 20+ seconds and not being able to stun them at all.

2 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Other games don't do this? "Encouraging" teamwork through pigeonholing players into working into multiple roles with nonsensical stats on enemies to create imbalance

Don't know which games do it to which degree and I don't really care either.

2 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Should overguard also affect brute force meta then? Now you have a super tough enemy requiring both DPS and support to work together to take down

Nope. Overguard should be taken out of the game.

2 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Such as? The most logical action to some would be nerfing the hell out of things to make them "in line" that I don't find enjoyable and how balance ends up with devs putting enemies with absurd stat as "boss" to get that "power fantasy" by overcoming "difficult encounter"

Depends on the ability. Exceptional outliers in performance can be rebalanced either directly or indirectly.

2 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Still can slowed to a crawl if players in question choose to with shooting behind walls and massive amount of CC

Grab a non-stealth endurance run setup and go push yourself to as far as you can in SP Disruption or SP Void Cascade. You will notice the pace picking up as the enemies you face become more and more dangerous and durable.

[TheArmchairThinker]

22 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Around lvl 130 and beyond in SP.

Beyond shouldn't be on infinite considering a balanced game you advocate would never let the players go beyond a set limit. That means with Zariman being the latest addition the limit is only level 155 SP, any higher is impossible

26 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

I find it funny when players want to jump from one extreme to another: "Being able to stun enemies for 20 seconds+ is OP. Guess stun just shouldn't be on the table anymore." Lol that is so short-sighted. That's exactly the line of thinking DE used with Overguard.  There is a middle ground between being able to stun enemies for 20+ seconds and not being able to stun them at all

Because it's almost always like that where enemies being immune to certain elements and in almost every game, CC is just that, stun enemies for a very short time and some enemies are immune to stun.

Sure, I can think for middle ground for CC so eximus unit become resistant instead of immune but they're more likely to become a slightly more dangerous pushover as follows

- Ragdoll (mag pull) into stagger

- Lifted (nezha spears) into root (locks enemies in place but still able to shoot)

- Reduced slow effect (like half for 45% slow on max strength gloom with 90% slow)

- Disarm (loki) into weaken (up to -75% damage for PH)

33 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Don't know which games do it to which degree

Almost every single RPG game goes like this, WoW would be the biggest example with their Leeroy Jenkins meme

34 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Nope. Overguard should be taken out of the game.

Eximus before overguard addition is just a bigger shooting target, this adds a bit of resistance to them

35 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

Grab a non-stealth endurance run setup and go push yourself to as far as you can in SP Disruption or SP Void Cascade. You will notice the pace picking up as the enemies you face become more and more dangerous and durable.

And mostly because the numbers being bigger than you can take, that's why I dislike those games about "challenge" or "fast paced" nowadays, they're shoving big numbers on you to make enemies look dangerous and durable and increase the pace

[MouadSaqui]

Lack of exploration 

[Teridax68]

In my opinion, Warframe's biggest flaws are the following:

• Its modding system is shallow, an impediment to build diversity, and the prime reason behind the game's poor balance.
• Its grind loop is surprisingly unforgiving, with no compensatory mechanics against streaks of bad luck.
• Its mechanics and systems are overcomplicated and poorly-communicated to the player, who still has to go to a third-party resource to get properly informed.
• Rather than meld into a coherent whole, most of its content is split off into islands that have no interaction with one another and have only a finite shelf life, leading the player to exhaust those content islands, no longer have any reason to come back to them, and find themselves playing only a fraction of the game at a time.
• Its identity has shifted almost exclusively around being a horde shooter, reducing diversity of gameplay from its previous states.

Effectively, some of the game's core systems have been built on shaky foundations that were never really comprehensively addressed, leading to structural flaws that would take time and effort (but wouldn't be impossible) to fix. 

[Silligoose]

15 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Beyond shouldn't be on infinite considering a balanced game you advocate would never let the players go beyond a set limit. That means with Zariman being the latest addition the limit is only level 155 SP, any higher is impossible

Again jumping to extremes, going from infinite to lvl 155? 

18 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Because it's almost always like that where enemies being immune to certain elements and in almost every game, CC is just that, stun enemies for a very short time and some enemies are immune to stun.

Sure, I can think for middle ground for CC so eximus unit become resistant instead of immune but they're more likely to become a slightly more dangerous pushover as follows

- Ragdoll (mag pull) into stagger

- Lifted (nezha spears) into root (locks enemies in place but still able to shoot)

- Reduced slow effect (like half for 45% slow on max strength gloom with 90% slow)

- Disarm (loki) into weaken (up to -75% damage for PH)

See what happens when you are pushed to think a little? Now let's hope some in DE starts pushing themselves to think a little further, so they don't look at "solutions" that go from one extreme to the other and instead find a middle ground that.

21 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Almost every single RPG game goes like this, WoW would be the biggest example with their Leeroy Jenkins meme

I still find the Leeroy Jenkins meme hilarious. I don't know to what degree players are pigeonholed in WoW. I don't know if the squad setup in that instance was the only setup that would work, or how many different setups would work and to which degree the various setups would perform. I also don't really care, because the mechanics in that game is different: I never got into WoW, since when I was introduced to it shortly after its release, it seemed that many of the enemy attacks and associated damage could not be dodged/avoided/mitigated by way of movement and positioning, which means much of the play came down to stats, which didn't interest me.

25 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

Eximus before overguard addition is just a bigger shooting target, this adds a bit of resistance to them

It invalidates tools that can result in both greater survivability and offense and pushes players into brute forcing. There are better ways to balance overpowered mechanics than simple invalidation. DE can explore the middle ground between the extremes.

38 minutes ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

And mostly because the numbers being bigger than you can take, that's why I dislike those games about "challenge" or "fast paced" nowadays, they're shoving big numbers on you to make enemies look dangerous and durable and increase the pace

The pace is increased because you have to do more in a given time period. 

[TheArmchairThinker]

3 hours ago, Silligoose said:

Again jumping to extremes, going from infinite to lvl 155? 

Our power technically sees no limit or infinite, allowing players to fight until level 9999. If things are balanced, level 155 SP would be the hard limit until DE increases the hard limit. And if DE increase the limit until we reach level 9999, then what's the point of balancing the game if we're back to square one?

3 hours ago, Silligoose said:

See what happens when you are pushed to think a little? Now let's hope some in DE starts pushing themselves to think a little further, so they don't look at "solutions" that go from one extreme to the other and instead find a middle ground that.

I already had this in mind long time ago, just didn't bother to put it here

3 hours ago, Silligoose said:

I still find the Leeroy Jenkins meme hilarious. I don't know to what degree players are pigeonholed in WoW. I don't know if the squad setup in that instance was the only setup that would work, or how many different setups would work and to which degree the various setups would perform. I also don't really care, because the mechanics in that game is different: I never got into WoW, since when I was introduced to it shortly after its release, it seemed that many of the enemy attacks and associated damage could not be dodged/avoided/mitigated by way of movement and positioning, which means much of the play came down to stats, which didn't interest me.

Any game with increasing stats will eventually come down to stats where things will be impossible to do no matter how good you are in whatever, be it movement or positioning and considering WoW is the old model with roles of paladin etc, you're pretty much pigeonholed to have at least one on each role and look how things went down the dumpster just from Leeroy rushing in. That's why I don't really want to see warframes boxed into roles and with so many gears making you a multi role, even a minor stat like Molt Reconstruct is strong enough to make the squishiest caster alive despite only 6 per energy spent

3 hours ago, Silligoose said:

The pace is increased because you have to do more in a given time period. 

But from shoving lots of numbers amid of other things, making you frantically trying to avoid taking damage while doing objective. I rather go with payday model where you do multiple objectives at the same time as fast paced than trying to avoid damage because it's "dangerous" like guarding power source while doing mobile defense or having enemies coming to both exodampers at the same time, "encouraging" teamwork

[(PSN)Xachary_Cross]

Its hard to easily qualify, but probably I'd say "spam".

 

There's an underpinniing layer of tactical play and interesting ideas.... that go completely out the window because there's too much enemy spam (numerically and in the amounts you get even of "elite" enemies at a time, like the classic "here comes 3-5 nullifiers in a single squad of enemies). Health and Armour (And shields but those are trivially bypassed by toxin) spam. So much of the enemy side of gameplay is just spam and it takes away from things that might otherwise be useful (IE : Parrying, stealth, summons, etc)

 

The AoE or even just the "all damage" modding meta is really just reactionary to that singular difficulty of design of throwing obnoxious numbers at the player.

[Erubian_Warlord]

can i just say that everything from angels forward is one big flaw? if not then its got to be the Overguard system and particularly the way it 'lol nopes' CC it failed on every metric of the game in my opinion

[TheArmchairThinker]

On 2022-08-08 at 8:49 PM, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Exactly my point. Ive reached this too and thats it. Warframes kind of a closed book after that. Playing missions just feel kinda pointless. I dont need anymore orokin catalyst, hardly need umbra forma, new warframes havent been too hot,

Most cool thing i got was the Hespar, had my fun with it but still. Ive reached a point where its like "what else to do?". Im currently playing old games just to unlock trophies as i just have nothing to do in warframe anymore.

Then it's more on your mindset, grinding power or completing trophies is your reason to play. I enjoy blasting enemies without sweat so if I can get rapid HP and energy regen, I'll chase it and enjoy the item afterwards to blast enemies away without care about my health or energy

On 2022-08-08 at 8:49 PM, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

its bad... and progression has just been on complete hault for a few years now

Complete halt? When there's an arcane allowing any caster heal the team on using abilities? That's one hell of progression to not rely too much on healers

On 2022-08-08 at 8:49 PM, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

hating that i have 0 things to do. 

Define "things to do" because you're sounding like grinding for more power is your only thing to do