What are the biggest flaws of this game?

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

On 2022-08-04 at 8:35 PM, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

I've literally have seen people ask revenant vs Caliban in region with everyone saying to get revenant. That's not just me.

I never said that revenant was useless in squads, I said thralls weren't needed in squads, but his shield still works.

His Mesmer skin is based off an eidolon shield, both block 100% of damage. Revenant has charges because enemies can't use the void.

Xaku void-corrupts enemies, they become uncorrupted, the argument that it has to be permanent is invalid because none of those types of abilities are permanent.

I know Reave used to suck visually, that's been something de does until this day.

Nidus's cord, larva, and virulence are not anything regular infested do. His buffing abilities are not something infested do either, and his maggots are the only attack done by infested enemies. 

Frames have been known to have secondary themes. Revenant being a vampire isn't the only one. Look at Khora having spiderlike mechanics, zephyr being windframe and bird frame, Chroma the elemental master and a dragon etc.

 

You said Everyone says Revenant is better than Caliban. That would have to include me. So for as long as I don’t believe that your claim is a lie.

Well his thralls are 100% integral to anything in his kit doing something. You also said that since the teammates would be killing the enemies Rev doesn’t have to worry about mesmer charges dropping. The fact that it’s a worry in the first place about keeping Mesmer going without Thralls speaks volumes on how bad Revenant actually is. He is a frame that requires 3 whole abilities to achieve what most frames do in one.

map now the only similarity you can manage between Mesmer Skin and the Eidolon shields is 100% DR. That’s an incredibly broad comparison. There’s also the fact that Mesmer puts enemies to sleep which is something Sentient Eidolons do not do.

Void energy has justification for mind control. It’s called the corrupted faction. Sentients do not.

Again, Nidus’s theme of infested is based on the fact that infested in lore grow and spread their influence. Nidus grows stronger, and spreads out his influence via Parasitic link and Ravenous.

Except most frames secondary themes are usually connected to their first theme in a way that makes sense. Khora is not spider themed. I think her original theme was liquid metal as she was going to release during an IPS rework and she was going to represent those changes. That got scrapped and Khoras theme is now a complete mess. Zephyr is wind themed with a bird appearnece. Because birds fly in the air, and there’s a lot of wind in the air. Ever play DND? There are several different types of elemental dragons. So chroma being both a dragon and an elemental theme makes sense. What doesn’t make sense is Revenant being corrupted and changed by a faction of enemies that we know what their powers are, and the end result is a frame that does not represent those powers. Eidolons do not mind control, put enemies to sleep, or drain enemy life force.

look dude, I’ve been arguing about Revenant for 4 years. You’re not the first person I’ve argued about this with. So I’ve had those 4 years to learn everything about Revenant and make my arguments absolutely bulletproof. And most of what you’ve been arguing as been arguments I’ve already dismantled. And anything new you’ve been saying has only served to weaken your own arguments. If you actually want to trip me up you’re going to need some brand new argument that I’ve never seen before and doesn’t just shoot your own argument in the foot. But until that day please stop wasting both our time with these incredibly one sided arguments.

 

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

3 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

You said Everyone says Revenant is better than Caliban. That would have to include me. So for as long as I don’t believe that your claim is a lie.

Well his thralls are 100% integral to anything in his kit doing something. You also said that since the teammates would be killing the enemies Rev doesn’t have to worry about mesmer charges dropping. The fact that it’s a worry in the first place about keeping Mesmer going without Thralls speaks volumes on how bad Revenant actually is. He is a frame that requires 3 whole abilities to achieve what most frames do in one.

map now the only similarity you can manage between Mesmer Skin and the Eidolon shields is 100% DR. That’s an incredibly broad comparison. There’s also the fact that Mesmer puts enemies to sleep which is something Sentient Eidolons do not do.

Void energy has justification for mind control. It’s called the corrupted faction. Sentients do not.

Again, Nidus’s theme of infested is based on the fact that infested in lore grow and spread their influence. Nidus grows stronger, and spreads out his influence via Parasitic link and Ravenous.

Except most frames secondary themes are usually connected to their first theme in a way that makes sense. Khora is not spider themed. I think her original theme was liquid metal as she was going to release during an IPS rework and she was going to represent those changes. That got scrapped and Khoras theme is now a complete mess. Zephyr is wind themed with a bird appearnece. Because birds fly in the air, and there’s a lot of wind in the air. Ever play DND? There are several different types of elemental dragons. So chroma being both a dragon and an elemental theme makes sense. What doesn’t make sense is Revenant being corrupted and changed by a faction of enemies that we know what their powers are, and the end result is a frame that does not represent those powers. Eidolons do not mind control, put enemies to sleep, or drain enemy life force.

look dude, I’ve been arguing about Revenant for 4 years. You’re not the first person I’ve argued about this with. So I’ve had those 4 years to learn everything about Revenant and make my arguments absolutely bulletproof. And most of what you’ve been arguing as been arguments I’ve already dismantled. And anything new you’ve been saying has only served to weaken your own arguments. If you actually want to trip me up you’re going to need some brand new argument that I’ve never seen before and doesn’t just shoot your own argument in the foot. But until that day please stop wasting both our time with these incredibly one sided arguments.

 

Use the most meta revenant build possible, go into as high a level you can (not arbitrations) , and see if he holds up. Until you do that, you can't say that you KNOW his kit is bad.

Many frames sound bad on paper and are good. Many frames sound good on paper and are bad. You can't know for certain unless you use the frame yourself.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

4 hours ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Use the most meta revenant build possible, go into as high a level you can (not arbitrations) , and see if he holds up. Until you do that, you can't say that you KNOW his kit is bad.

Many frames sound bad on paper and are good. Many frames sound good on paper and are bad. You can't know for certain unless you use the frame yourself.

Do I do that in a group or solo. Because if I do it in a group we’ve already agreed the team mates will do all the work. And in solo any frame can look good. Will Revenant work in those high levels? Yes. But so will any tank frame with a Phantasma. So maybe just bring an actual good frame and that Phantasma. Also you specified no arbitrations because we both know arbi drones make Mesmer Skin literally vanish. Again, if your tank ability absolutely requires CC and 2 other powers to even maintain its function then it’s not really a good ability.

Revenant is a frame that sounds good on paper but is absolute garbage in execution.

[Joezone619]

Free roams. Their structure is clearly flawed, and was supposed to get reworked after fortuna, but then "oh look railjack", 2 years later and we all know how well that went.

Bounties aren't rewarding enough, the reward structure is awkward at best, and actively encourages you to fail bounties if what your after isn't in the rare section. Mining, hunting, and fishing are nice, but should be more like niche commodities then actual pathways to be prioritized.

As deimos proved, the current structure doesn't work as a copy-paste option, to make a quick major update when out of ideas. No NPC's on the field with unique quests, no random encounters, little to no motivation for exploration, just a boring empty sandbox most of the time.

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

Do I do that in a group or solo. Because if I do it in a group we’ve already agreed the team mates will do all the work. And in solo any frame can look good. Will Revenant work in those high levels? Yes. But so will any tank frame with a Phantasma. So maybe just bring an actual good frame and that Phantasma. Also you specified no arbitrations because we both know arbi drones make Mesmer Skin literally vanish. Again, if your tank ability absolutely requires CC and 2 other powers to even maintain its function then it’s not really a good ability.

Revenant is a frame that sounds good on paper but is absolute garbage in execution.

The thing is, you just seem to hate revenant like he insulted you on a personal level. You literally listed him as a major problem ruining the game and literally trash him every chance you get.

Did you ever think...

Maybe you just want to hate revenant no matter what?

[(PSN)BMWWOW]

Others have elicited the key mechanical elements that need attention, so I will add this....

The LACK of a significant Campaign element.  The NEW WAR was the closest we came to a Campaign-Like feel.
It was spectacular!!!  ❤️🧡💛💚💙💜

We need a LOT more Campaign elements, maybe even make WF 3.0 all about a massive Campaign.  🙂

We have Built Our Heroes.... now lets have them Save The Galaxy in a Proper Storyline.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

14 minutes ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

The thing is, you just seem to hate revenant like he insulted you on a personal level. You literally listed him as a major problem ruining the game and literally trash him every chance you get.

Did you ever think...

Maybe you just want to hate revenant no matter what?

I mean you can track Warframes downfall of quality in content to mid 2018 when Revenant released.

Aside from that. I don’t hate things without reason. And Revenants given me more reasons to hate than any other frame.

[Marvelous_A]

Devs kinda make things then forget them completely. Also they never try to integrate things together, they just do things because they suddenly feel like it's a good idea and just leave the new content stranding amidst the sea of more new content. 

[(XBOX)Lord ChibiVR]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)GearsMatrix301 said:

I mean you can track Warframes downfall of quality in content to mid 2018 when Revenant released.

Aside from that. I don’t hate things without reason. And Revenants given me more reasons to hate than any other frame.

Yareli haters don't even bring her up nearly as much as you bring up revenant. Like seriously, if you don't like him, move onto another frame and let the people who understand his kit use him. Or, you can try him for yourself and then critique what exactly should be changed instead of "revenant bad, he ruined the game for me"

[nslay]

On 2022-08-03 at 6:13 PM, LillyRaccune said:

I think the second biggest flaw is the Devs having open communication with their community of players. The biggest flaw is the Devs trying to satisfy the players*.

 

*_{It would be better if the Devs made the game the way THEY thought it should be instead of adjusting to the head-cannon the players think it should conform to.}

I don't think these are flaws. I think the flaw is DE not defining boundaries between community desires and game health/balance. DE can try to satisfy the community while sticking to their boundaries. They've done it before with RRR, though they did do fatal harm to a large portion of shotguns in the process.

[Dobert.]

Bug fixes. Countless bugs have plagued Profit-Taker runs and Eidolons for months, and even years. They've been reported numerous times, but still are not even acknowledged.

Not even just for those two. There are so, so, so so so so so many old detrimental bugs that they won't fix. But if someone found a harmless, hilarious bug, it's like their life depends on fixing it.

[TheArmchairThinker]

On 2022-08-06 at 11:59 PM, Silligoose said:

It does not appear as though they are looking to move away from the degree of homogenization they are currently enabling, not in healing and not in the vast majority of other mechanics. I believe the degree to which they are doing it, is too great, as we end up with extremely similar playstyles, regardless of frame choices, when it comes to meta's within those frame choices.

With huge number they give? There are still different play styles where warframe with cc like nyx still being a rear liner with mind control and chaos while tanks like nidus is a direct front liner. Even with extremely similar play styles there are warframes not being as effective on one position compared to others

On 2022-08-06 at 11:59 PM, Silligoose said:

As for why players look to reach late game in games they like... well, because they like the game, they like the world, they like the systems. They want to continue past midgame, the point at which they are more or less comfortable with the different mechanics, systems, characters, world etc, and want to experience the challenge that usually is presented at lategame in a game. Usually, the lategame in a game is the point where almost all mechanics, gear, classes etc are unlocked. Further progression usually just means increasing the stats/attributes of said asset, maybe with some special lategame exclusive items/abilities etc. Generally speaking, lategame presents a challenge in which the use of the various mechanics in conjunction with one another becomes important for further progression at the same proficiency - failing to make use of various systems in conjuciton with one another means slower progression in a mission, or even failure.

With immense power given, nothing can really challenge you and I'm sick with the "challenge" that end up being massive health with huge damage if you don't use all kind of best damage reducing equipment or abilities, often paired with nonsensical stats to make it impossible to go alone

Even if we tone down damage output, CC in this game invalidate any kind of resistance. Chroma can't blow up the whole map? Have a vauban locking the whole map with bastille or any frame infused with gloom for 90% slow. How is that any challenge now? Only thing that can be added without too much risk of getting an outcry for being "bullet sponge" would be additional objectives when doing missions

On 2022-08-06 at 11:59 PM, Silligoose said:

If Warframe was racing game, early-to-midgame would see players racing in a damn good game, unlocking better cars, unlocking tougher tracks, unlocking different tyres suited for different conditions, unlocking faster and varied opponents, developing their skills... then as players get to endgame, unlock the fastest cars to take on the toughest opponents, the game places safety bumpers all over the track and programs opponents not to race, but to just stay behind the player, so players can win by pressing drive and not really paying attention to silly mechanics such as "steering" or "braking" - those mechanics aren't for endgame, apparently.

Tons of nerf would be needed when you can reach top speed to catch up when you're left behind and being able to turn through corners at top speed without any need to brake

Opponents can be dangerous, provided you don't have 90% DR and massive damage like grendel missions but it that how Warframe should be?

On 2022-08-06 at 11:59 PM, Silligoose said:

Choosing the right damage type for the right enemies in a mission. Choosing which enemy to target first due to the benefit it would have. Choosing the right times to use a specific ability. Choosing where to move, how to move, in a quick encounter. Things like that. Deeper into lategame many of those choices and their timing don't really matter as much as they used to in early- to midgame, when our power wasn't quite as overwhelming as it is at deeper levels of lategame.

Choosing the right element is considered moot when slash and viral becomes the "meta" to this community regardless if there's a better element because it doesn't require much preparation compared to other setup. That's why I suggest to remove slash DoT ignoring armor so it becomes effective on bare flesh and weak against armored enemies. Sure, you can still spam the heck out of slash on grineer but it's no longer a mindless armor ignoring damage and "encourage" players to choose the right element like corrosive

Which enemy to target is there from overguard to make sure they're taken down first for their dangerous abilities and heavy units having considerable damage output compared to their peers

Right times to use an ability is countered with efficiency build and energize/wellspring and we're past that time already where using the ability at the wrong time ends up with longer time or failure. That time is way past and not something I would like to see coming to Warframe

Where to move and how to move is more for slower pace games, at Warframe pace? It would become almost like that nonsense MLG montages that I find ridiculous

[TheArmchairThinker]

On 2022-08-06 at 4:13 PM, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Its much better than having 0 sense of progression like it is right now... just feel like youre there... 

I find no progression in those games with unending power grind, it's just grind to see your power "reset" every time they add something so you go back to that grind before you can play part of the game. What's the point? In Warframe I know I've progressed far when I don't need to care about things like energy or health over small things that disrupt the pace and I don't need to grind just to add play time before I can access the whole part

[OniDax]

On 2022-08-03 at 5:35 PM, Scar.brother.help.me said:

/discuss

I'll keep mine for later, I wonder what community of this forum thinks.

Gun/melee animations, gun mechanics, melee mechanics, sound design, enemy behavior, balance between warframe abilities/warframe stats/weapons, AOE meta, story writing, open world design (lack of immersion/NPCs in world/map design).

[mycroft_]

  

On 2022-08-06 at 10:13 AM, xMarvin732 said:

Gamebreaking bugs arriving on a big update and bugs existing for years not being fixed.

9 hours ago, Yarniii said:

Bug fixes. Countless bugs have plagued Profit-Taker runs and Eidolons for months, and even years. They've been reported numerous times, but still are not even acknowledged.

Not even just for those two. There are so, so, so so so so so many old detrimental bugs that they won't fix. But if someone found a harmless, hilarious bug, it's like their life depends on fixing it.

AKA lack of appropriate levels of staffing in the programming department.

They are always saying "too much work", "not enough time", "won't fix" - that's really really bad. Especially when it happens this many times, and for this long. How big will their backlog get?

They've started locking old threads without fixing the bugs just to shrink the backlog. That's coming at the problem from the wrong direction. And it makes the game worse.

 

16 hours ago, Joezone619 said:

Free roams. Their structure is clearly flawed, and was supposed to get reworked after fortuna, but then "oh look railjack", 2 years later and we all know how well that went.

Bounties aren't rewarding enough, the reward structure is awkward at best, and actively encourages you to fail bounties if what your after isn't in the rare section. Mining, hunting, and fishing are nice, but should be more like niche commodities then actual pathways to be prioritized.

As deimos proved, the current structure doesn't work as a copy-paste option, to make a quick major update when out of ideas. No NPC's on the field with unique quests, no random encounters, little to no motivation for exploration, just a boring empty sandbox most of the time.

Hi, Joe ;)

You're 100% right. Open worlds are now just a mechanism for them to exploit their playerbase with. Spend 30 hours mining to make one part of one item OR shower DE with cash to skip that massive waste of time. It's abusive, and it's bad game design. Deimos does feel super empty as a result. They had something good with Cetus/PoE, deopped the quality for Fortuna because it was still profitable, and then stopped trying altogether for Deimos. They're just smashing that "PAY US" button, having thrown the "Have fun" button in the trash.

If you only do what seems immediately profitable, DE, your new content is going to be terrible, consistently.

[V2lkyr]

The devs tend to add clunky/weak things and just move on to the next thing while leaving them like that.

Ex: Butcher's Revelry (Assault Saw stance) and Yareli.

[(XBOX)GearsMatrix301]

12 hours ago, (XBOX)Upl0rdYT said:

Yareli haters don't even bring her up nearly as much as you bring up revenant. Like seriously, if you don't like him, move onto another frame and let the people who understand his kit use him. Or, you can try him for yourself and then critique what exactly should be changed instead of "revenant bad, he ruined the game for me"

I’ve already made a Revenant rework thread. Feel free to check it out and maybe suggest a different idea for his 4 as even I’m not completely satisfied with the change I suggested.

So because people know how to Use Hydroid that means he shouldn’t get a rework? Because people know how to use Loki that means he shouldn’t get a rework? Knowing how to use a frame is completely different from the frame itself actually being good.

And Revenant didn’t ruin the game for me. I would’ve stopped playing if that was the case. 

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

8 hours ago, TheArmchairThinker said:

I find no progression in those games with unending power grind, it's just grind to see your power "reset" every time they add something so you go back to that grind before you can play part of the game. What's the point?

I used to think like that too but i have tried some other games and you still get the progression feel mainly through looks and a few new mechanics. Like a different sword that just has increased stats, thats boring as heck. You dont feel much progression.

However a sword that summons a chain of lightning on critical attacks, or a power up that makes your warframe move super fast and jump high for some time, or the ability to use 2 melee weapons with brand new devastating combos, things like that make power creep feel epic af

Same with enemies. You go from 1 enemy with a boring attack, to many different types with crazy affects! More stuff to dodge, new things to take advantage of, can get rather fun even though its simple power creep.

 

I believe thats what has kept warframe alive for so long. You go from a boring single ability casting player with limited mods, to this unstopable beast. Constant power creep but youre unlocking some of the dopest things like being able to cast so many abilities, use awesome weapons, many frames to play and mix things up with, etc. From boring enemies to facing enemies like the Lephantis for the first time

Its exciting, and the thought of seeing more of it sounds dope, especially if the new gear actually looks cool.

Riven mods buff old weapons, an easy little rework for them. I can get with it all

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

On 2022-08-07 at 11:57 PM, TheArmchairThinker said:

In Warframe I know I've progressed far when I don't need to care about things like energy or health over small things that disrupt the pace

Exactly my point. Ive reached this too and thats it. Warframes kind of a closed book after that. Playing missions just feel kinda pointless. I dont need anymore orokin catalyst, hardly need umbra forma, new warframes havent been too hot,

Most cool thing i got was the Hespar, had my fun with it but still. Ive reached a point where its like "what else to do?". Im currently playing old games just to unlock trophies as i just have nothing to do in warframe anymore.

Used to want a giant clan but the maintence for it is absurd. I have to force my clan members to give me resources to decorate whats essentially my dojo which sucks. Its like making people pay you so you can decorate your house like what the heck? They may hate the colors im using or simply dont care about what i like, yet they gotta work for it. I also dont have the time to help new players anymore now that im an adult and working (lmao)

its bad... and progression has just been on complete hault for a few years now.... be getting on warframe like loving to look at all my toys but hating that i have 0 things to do. 

[uppertiggy]

number one on the list has definitely got to be the way the ( or does not) introduce and teach you how the modding system works, its definately the most confusing thing for every single person i try and introduce to the game. i can not imagine trying to learn it yourself from only inside the game and not having to cruise through the wiki, you should NOT have to go and find information outside the game to be able to play effectively that is a failing on the games side not the player.

[Giagantic]

DE's previously promised content that has since never surfaced despite the popularity of said additions namely, Grand Bosses.

There is the 3rd Orb Mother in Orb Valis, the twin infested Wyrms, and in general a lack of big bosses to fell for sweet loot. Both Eidolons and Orb Mothers have a strong following of players that despite having everything they still hunt them because there is skills involved in increasing ones efficiency during these fights. This is where the endgame lies in my honest opinion, where our equipment, knowledge and skill can be applied but DE has faltered in releasing content like this that is both somewhat challenging and rewarding, where skill and knowledge makes an extreme difference between someone felling Profit Taker in upwards of 15 minutes versus someone that does it in under 5, heck people have done it less then a minute (one person has). I hope Veilbreaker somewhat rectifies this but the grandness of these bosses will be held in question till we get more information.'

Next, there is the whole clan construction, maintenance, and user interface, basically everything regarding clans could use heavy reworking and changes to make it more intuitive, controllable, and less onerous to work with. Currently, building first off, takes far to long to construct anything of note, with build times taking between 12 and several days for no good reason on top of often requiring forma (which has another timer on top of it. Second, the UI and general interaction between objects and their placement is extremely bad often forcing players to spend lengthy amounts of time just angling an object so it can be placed. People somehow make amazing things despite this, imagine if we could deftly control objects and place them anywhere. Objects should be toggle-able between snaping to each other, grids, layers, and so forth...

[Skoomaseller]

additional point: while it isn't the game, the forum has some, say, outspoken contrarians who are what they are for the sake of being one. it is super cringe and doesn't really add any value to any discussion on the forum.

[Skoomaseller]

1 hour ago, Giagantic said:

DE's previously promised content that has since never surfaced despite the popularity of said additions namely, Grand Bosses.

There is the 3rd Orb Mother in Orb Valis, the twin infested Wyrms, and in general a lack of big bosses to fell for sweet loot. Both Eidolons and Orb Mothers have a strong following of players that despite having everything they still hunt them because there is skills involved in increasing ones efficiency during these fights. This is where the endgame lies in my honest opinion, where our equipment, knowledge and skill can be applied but DE has faltered in releasing content like this that is both somewhat challenging and rewarding, where skill and knowledge makes an extreme difference between someone felling Profit Taker in upwards of 15 minutes versus someone that does it in under 5, heck people have done it less then a minute (one person has). I hope Veilbreaker somewhat rectifies this but the grandness of these bosses will be held in question till we get more information.'

Next, there is the whole clan construction, maintenance, and user interface, basically everything regarding clans could use heavy reworking and changes to make it more intuitive, controllable, and less onerous to work with. Currently, building first off, takes far to long to construct anything of note, with build times taking between 12 and several days for no good reason on top of often requiring forma (which has another timer on top of it. Second, the UI and general interaction between objects and their placement is extremely bad often forcing players to spend lengthy amounts of time just angling an object so it can be placed. People somehow make amazing things despite this, imagine if we could deftly control objects and place them anywhere. Objects should be toggle-able between snaping to each other, grids, layers, and so forth...

I'll be honest I forgot about the 3rd orb mother until today when I went fishing for nightwave

[BloodKitten]

mobile conversion.

and switch.

[Skoomaseller]

40 minutes ago, BloodKitten said:

mobile conversion.

and switch.

tbh I don't see how warframe could run smoothly on a phone, nor can I see proper touchscreen controls/layout. a lot of mobile game controls are notoriously bad