Reworded: Making Nightwave less Mission Restrictive

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

Before you read

If you feel like saying "just dont play nightwave" or "just play another game", dont comment, the option is obvious and therefore needs not to be said, just as saying "the floor is made of floor". Nothing in here is saying a player is forced to do nightwave, rather seriously encouraged to the point where youre almost punished for not playing it. We obviously still have the option to just accept missing out on rewards, or abandoning a game we once loved, so please keep the comments to yourself and exit this post if thats all you want to suggest. Thank you in advance!

The feedback:

I was worried about posting this for some time because i felt it may be too personal, but i thought on the off chance that there may be people who feel this way too so i thought id go ahead and post it.

Simply put, i would like to ask if more weight and challenge frequency can be placed on challenges that allow players to play any game mode they want, as opposed to mission specfic challenges. The reason being is that that mission specfic challenges can cause gameplay to feel like chores as opposed to doing whatever mission you enjoy, especially those that arent about fighting enemies at all like fishing, mining, and treasure hunts. Theyre tied to such good rewards too that it almost feels mandatory to partake in them as well, which can leave it all feeling less fun.

The challenges id like to be more prominent in nightwave are getting X kills or dealing X damage with primary weapons, while making the other challenges like Hydrolyst Captures be far less prominent, to the point where they feel like side objectives as opposed to the main objective of just enjoying warframe. This way its far more freeing for the player to just hop online and do what they feel like doing, without missing out on too much of anything

How would this look like?

Ultimately what Nightwave would end up looking like after such a change is 90%-100% of the progression to reach the end of the main nightwave rewards would be completed by simply playing warframe for the most part. Getting some kills here with this weapon, complete some missions, earn some credits, just really light stuff offering the bulk of the points towards exclusive rewards. Whilst 50% or more extra points can be gained by doing more mission specific challenges like fishing or riding k-drive. Choosing to do the mission specfic objectives would be more geared towards those after rewards involving nightwave credits and to push your progress in nightwave much faster. A way to catch up or speed ahead.

I think this would still accomplish the goal of getting players to revisit random missions and such, but without making it so mandatory that it prevents progress if players dont choose to go on a random mission spree.

It also meets the goal of increasing player activity. Meeting kills a day is rather easy to take part in

It Creates no Harm

Such a change doesnt harm the game either. Players wont be so pressured to stop partaking in their personal activities like farming warframes, hunting mods, and doing fissure missions, especially if they already live busy lives and dont have time to play random game modes. Living a healthy life style, enjoying the game, and not missing out on great rewards because of it.

Players still have pretty good reason to revisit other gamemodes, like trying to get all the kills and do a hydrolyst capture all in 1 mission for effciency

Everybody wins

Thoughts?

[Myscho]

Those task exist because as you say, DE want to players explore other parts of Warframe, not just mindlesly repeat one mision first time with gun and than with melee and be done with it

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

24 minutes ago, Myscho said:

Those task exist because as you say, DE want to players explore other parts of Warframe, not just mindlesly repeat one mision first time with gun and than with melee and be done with it

Nah its not to explore other missions, we have mastery rank for that, its to revisit missions we've already done. Mindlessly Replaying random missions again. Fishing, hunts, no difference.

So as im saying, if its for that then it doesnt have to be as mandatory. It can just be for fun.

And i didnt suggest repeating missions mindlessly, you do ones you enjoy. If you want to hunt eidolons and get nightwave standing, you can do it with a pistol if the daily task is to "do X damage with a pistol with", instead of getting kills. Coincidentally, this way you arent mindlessly replaying that mission and are actually exploring other ways to do it.

And if you hate eidolon hunts, With the eidolon hunt challenge being less mandatory, you may play something else. You have choice over challenges as opposed to mindlessly do things you hate like fishing

You can choose to do all your challenges at the same time, or just do the bulk of them in a mission(s) you enjoy, and ignore that boring last 1 or last few

[Myscho]

You can always ignore them, so ?? Still dont see the point ?

[quxier]

1 hour ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

If you feel like saying "just dont play nightwave" or "just play another game", dont comment, the option is obvious and therefore needs not to be said, just as saying "the floor is made of floor". Nothing in here is saying a player is forced to do nightwave, rather seriously encouraged to the point where youre almost punished for not playing it. We obviously still have the option to just accept missing out on rewards, or abandoning a game we once loved, so please keep the comments to yourself and exit this post if thats all you want to suggest. Thank you in advance!

1 hour ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

One of the things i dont like about nightwave is how hard it pressures the player to do everything but what we want to do.

Seriously, have you played more nightwave? You don't have to do all challenges, at least not with recent nigwaves series (I think there were 1 or 2 that has pretty strict number of challenges but it was one of the first). With current series I don't do all task. I don't do Eidolons nor Profit taker. 1k kills in SP? Forget about it. I haven't even done whole week of challenges and I'm on 27th rank.

1 hour ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Hardly ever are the challenges set to "just enjoy playing warframe" its most commonly set to "dont do what you enjoy in warframe, do all these chores every day, and do even more chores when the week is up".

Sure, some are like chores, like 30m kuva survi or 20 defense. However other are just "do exterminate".

1 hour ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Another Way

So i wanted to make a suggestion, which is to change the bulk of the challenges to simply killing enemies daily. It can be melee kills, sniper kills, killing eximus, aim glide kills, just things that arent forcing the player to go out of their way so much to get the rewards.

We have that already. Kill 150 enemies with N element or using abilities. We have 2 version of eximus kill weekly & elite weekly. We have kills with aim glide. I'm not sure what's your suggestion as there are already such challenges in game.

1 hour ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

As for those challenges like do a 30 minute kuvival make those type of challenges rare and more avoidable.

and 20 wave defense

1 hour ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

and playing a emote... make those type of challenges rare and more avoidable.

Ugh.... really? Are you serious?! What's so bad about using 1 emote once a while?

1 hour ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Daily challenges same way, most are getting kills like doing with it slam attacks or the operator, and ONE daily mission out of a week can be completeing a mission in steelpath solo with the stug only equipped, for weapon experimentation. Weird challenge that you dont have to do but its still considerable like 2,000 standing with some free radiant relics

Daily challenges are supposed to be easy.

 

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

20 minutes ago, Myscho said:

You can always ignore them, so ?? Still dont see the point ?

 

1 hour ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

which is to change the bulk of the challenges to simply killing enemies daily

 

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

2 hours ago, quxier said:

We have that already. Kill 150 enemies with N element or using abilities. We have 2 version of eximus kill weekly & elite weekly. We have kills with aim glide. I'm not sure what's your suggestion as there are already such challenges in game.

Yea you guys cant be reading, the post talks about making nightwave less restrictive and more free. Less chores more freedom to do what you want.

So a challenge with kills will stay and be worth more

3 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Getting melee kills or shotgun kills type of challenges offers 7000 standing weekly, while killing a hydrolyst type of challenges shows up maybe once a month for 7,000

3 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Hardly ever are the challenges set to "just enjoy playing warframe" its most commonly set to "dont do what you enjoy in warframe, do all these chores every day, and do even more chores when the week is up"

3 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

So i wanted to make a suggestion, which is to change the bulk of the challenges to simply killing enemies daily.

Thus challenges that are already existing is irrelevant, its about making those challenges more prominent not bringing them into existence?

Whys it unclear?

 

2 hours ago, quxier said:

Ugh.... really? Are you serious?! What's so bad about using 1 emote once a while?

Again:

3 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Yet i feel nightwave strives to create such an enviornment. It forgets fun and just focuses on giving player random task. I mean one of them is just performing an emote for christ sake, or changing a mod... You cant possibly tell me those were made to help players enjoy Warframe as opposed to just being a task.

 

2 hours ago, quxier said:

Daily challenges are supposed to be easy.

Thats rather closed minded. They dont have to always be easy

[Myscho]

So punch line is "i dont like it, DE must change that"

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

6 minutes ago, Myscho said:

"i dont like it, DE must change that"

Punch line is, DE asked for feedback so im giving feedback, ig explaining what i dislike and what others may dislike too, and heres how to fix it in a way that i hope is a good compromise. Theres a difference

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

@Myscho & @quxier ive reworded the post for added clarity, hope it helps get the point across

[iHaku]

play one emote is literally less than a second within a mission. its literally as free as nightwave points could possible come.

On 2022-11-06 at 1:46 PM, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Thats rather closed minded. They dont have to always be easy

they do because that's what DE and many users want them to be.

Dailys are for people that dont have much time or are new to the game, so they can login, get something done real quick in a few minutes and feel good about themselves. the whole nightwave thing is just for that in general: getting people to login. hard nightwave dailys isnt gonna happen, ever. if you wannd do something hard, then just do it. you dont need the nightwave system for that. not a single one of the NW challenges is actually hard in any way, they are just time drainers to get you to differentiate your content experience. you're also not, in any way even closely, required to do all challenges to reach R50. anything above that is just extra kuva/reactors/catalysts.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

1 hour ago, iHaku said:

Dailys are for people that dont have much time or are new to the game

So youre saying both easy and hard dailys cant co-exist together? Youre also saying something hard cant be short such as a Steel Path Extermination?

I have to explain this? Yall arent pulling my leg??

1 hour ago, iHaku said:

play one emote is literally less than a second within a mission. its literally as free as nightwave points could possible come.

I dont care? Thats a fine challenge to exist, nobody wants it removed so... im not sure why youre trying to defend it as if someone wants that. Youre precious emote is safe

Do you know what this post is talkimg about? Adding more missions that fall in line with encouraging players to play the game while simutaneously completing personal task they wish complete. Pushing random task to the side as more side objectives than main, especially mission restrictive stuff. 

Its not a big deal because its just playing an emote. It can make room for more frequent engaging gameplay.

1 hour ago, iHaku said:

the whole nightwave thing is just for that in general: getting people to login

??? You mean login rewards??? Those are to get you to login. Login rewards

Nightwave was created to encourage play the game. Thats why nearly all of them require you to play missions...

1 hour ago, iHaku said:

not a single one of the NW challenges is actually hard in any way,

False? You know this is false right? Take a second and rethink about the challenges. Theyre not all face level 1 enemy. They get much harder than that

I mean, if they arent hard for you thats fine but, DE does try to make them harder than others so. 

1 hour ago, iHaku said:

you dont need the nightwave system for that. not a single one of the NW challenges is actually hard in any way, they are just time drainers to get you to differentiate your content experience. you're also not, in any way even closely, required to do all challenges to reach R50. anything above that is just extra kuva/reactors/catalysts

Yeah you dont know the topic of the post.

The post is talking about making missions less restrictive so that players can more freely play the game and get rewards. 

1 of the pros to this is for people short on time for example. Some people may have a few hours to play for the week. They may really love playing warframe but dont have time to do random restrictive missions while doing their own personal goals. 

If nightwave is supposed to just serve as getting players to play the game or have something to do, then it shouldnt negatively impact players who already have something to do on their short time schedules. Ive been playing the game almost daily having loads of fun, yet im level 5 on nightwave because im not focusing intensely on it. Soon it will be gone and ill have missed all the rewards because i dont have time to do the challenges and enjoy myself.

Its what i mean, it becomes a chore more than just trying to get players to play. So the suggestion im making fixes that. It makes nightwave include everyone. Players who are active and doing their own thing, and those who need something to do. Instead of just rewarding those who just have nothing better to do, and punnishing those who have things better to do by making the rewards unreachable.

I hope that helps you to see why the quoted text above is off topic. I dont care about difficulty, or doing all (or some) of the challenges

[iHaku]

31 minutes ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

So youre saying both easy and hard dailys cant co-exist together?

yes because if they are hard they have no reason to be dailies anymore.

31 minutes ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

False? You know this is false right? Take a second and rethink about the challenges. Theyre not all face level 1 enemy. They get much harder than that

I mean, if they arent hard for you thats fine but, DE does try to make them harder than others so. 

name one then? literally every single one of them is piss easy if you're not a total beginner.

 

32 minutes ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

The post is talking about making missions less restrictive so that players can more freely play the game and get rewards. 

nighwave is a system that was literally ment to do the opposite. because if you#re free to do whatever, then you're just doing whats the best. and a ton of activities are entirely worthless to do once you've exhausted the MR items they provide. nightwave makes you revisit those and thats its point.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

41 minutes ago, iHaku said:

yes because if they are hard they have no reason to be dailies anymore.

Thats some logic you have there, ill give you that lol, what an irrefutable response!

41 minutes ago, iHaku said:

name one then

Profit taker, Hydrolyst capture, kill 1000 steel path enemies? 

What?

41 minutes ago, iHaku said:

nighwave is a system that was literally ment to do the opposite.

I dont think DE said that. To encourage player activity, that was said, but it being meant to force players to play other missions? no. 

Even if they did say it,  i dont see any harm in making it encouraging rather than forceful. Nightwave's restrictive missions may take away what a player may enjoy in warframe, instead of adding to it. Why would you make it do that instead of the latter, if it hurts no one?

And let me emphaize the hurting no one part

[iHaku]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Profit taker, Hydrolyst capture, kill 1000 steel path enemies? 

Did you just recently start playing this game? If so i can see why you would categorize them as hard, but they are not.

profit taker, you dont even need a build, go public, mission is over in less than 10 minutes even if you dont move from spawn. I have a build to kill him quickly, but that's only for double credit weekends if i need money. Anyone who can access it, can get this done for free. and no, its not difficult to get fortuna 5, just takes time.

hydrolyst is the same. have you ever done public eidolons? literally cant even do anything most of the missions because people just 1tap all phases. I'm lucky to get a limb destroyed with my rubico because i'm not good at the timings. Not a big eidolon farmer but they are even more of a joke with the new focus system than they were before.

1k steel path kills is easy aswell, if you actually wouldnt use trash frames and weapons, and used mods you wouldnt find this difficult at all. As i said, maybe a beginner finds them difficult but someone who's played the game for a while wont have any issues with any of those missions, public or solo. For the kills you could, for example, just play xaku, press 3 and run around while everything dies passively. Not that hard.

 

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

2 hours ago, iHaku said:

Did you just recently start playing this game? If so i can see why you would categorize them as hard, but they are not.

3 hours ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Theyre not all face level 1 enemy. They get much harder than that

2 hours ago, iHaku said:

name one then?

 those arent begginer level fights, especially not steel path. These dudes deal way more damage and tank way more than all other enemies?

Normal star chart missions are more lightwork, it'd make sense if it was just the normal weak stuff. DE wouldnt be trying to challenge us at all if that was all they offered. Youd be right, no hard content in nightwave.

This other stuff? Hidden bosses and beefed up enemies? You need the best equipment to handle them, and good knowledge of how the game works, more than beginner or mid level. Its the hardest content the game offers.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

2 hours ago, iHaku said:

have you ever done public eidolons? literally cant even do anything most of the missions because people just 1tap all phases

Maybe youre trying to say they lack skill? I agree with that if thats the case. But if you are just saying that then i still have no clue why youre trying so hard to talk to me about it. Like i said, i dont care about hard content being in nightwave. The point of the post was mission restriction.

Im not undersranding the goal of the tangent

[iHaku]

15 minutes ago, (PSN)Frost_Nephilim said:

Maybe youre trying to say they lack skill? I agree with that if thats the case. But if you are just saying that then i still have no clue why youre trying so hard to talk to me about it. Like i said, i dont care about hard content being in nightwave. The point of the post was mission restriction.

Im not undersranding the goal of the tangent

true. tho the point was more so that "dailys" shouldnt be challenges that take a lot of time, for they are daily. if there is no difficulty in the game, and its just about spending enough time, then this is the only measurement we can put challenges under, really.

and my point still stands, if they'd be more "general", allowing you to do them in a lot more places (and not just "fish" instead of "fish in Plains") then there's be zero reason to go back to content that nightwave incentivises. Why would you *ever* do index or profit taker (whichever you prefer for credits) if you have several million credits banked and arent running low because you dont trade a lot? Why would you ever do arcana vaults if you have all weapons and damaged necramech weapon parts from them? Why would you do halls of ascension on lua if you already have all the mods? (to be fair i do regularely do one of them when i'm on alpollo for disruption farming). Why would you do bounties on the zariman if you're done with zariman content? Or bounties in orb valis?

last one is topical because that's my situation. fortuna as a whole, outside of profit taker credit farming, has nothing for me to offer. i got all items they offer since a very long time and yet i'm gonna go back there to do older content if i want the nightwave points. and i dont even mind it, its content i havent done in a while that i now have a reason to do again. thats good. if it was "do any bounty" i'd just do it on PoE because you can cheese there and skip some timers to make them faster instead of revisiting fortuna.

[(PSN)Frost_Nephilim]

23 minutes ago, iHaku said:

true. tho the point was more so that "dailys" shouldnt be challenges that take a lot of time

Yea my suggestion still works in accordance with this. Get 100 kills dor the day, do it with a sniper. No mission restriction and theyll be dominant. This doesnt become an issue

23 minutes ago, iHaku said:

and my point still stands, if they'd be more "general", allowing you to do them in a lot more places (and not just "fish" instead of "fish in Plains") then there's be zero reason

The warframe playerbase enjoys effiency though. So if there was a challenge that said get 100 kills for 5000 standing, and capture a kubrodon for 2,500 standing. Players who are happy doing hunts will hunt the kubrodon and do a Fortuna bounty for the 100 kills, getting all the points in 1 go.

Also players spend platinum to rush things, doing a mission to get that extra standing to unlock the next reward rushing to the ending? Come we know players will 100% do that. And do extra for free kuva and what not

People that dread that hunt though? We wont be forced to play it. We'll miss out on standing but its a nice sacrifice. Get to continue playing the game with a smile than a frown, and still get the exclusive rewards for choosing to enjoy warframe for the duration of the nightwave season.