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[Explained] Damage 2.0 Builds, With Cheatsheets!


_Aahz
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Okay, first and most important thing to realize:

  • Do NOT compare the new damage system to old damage system. It is completely different and you're just going to confuse yourself trying to somehow translate new mechanics into the old stuff.

Scott/Grineeer tried to explain it in the livestreams, and DERebecca tried to explain more in the forum, but the great majority of people who logged into U11 were completely confused. So start from scratch, forget the old damage/enemy/weapon system, and realize everything is going to be okay. Now onto some explanations... (btw, TL:DR, pics at the bottom to tell you how to build your weapons, if you don't care about the mechanics).

MblYCuA.png

Info in next spoiler is outdated according to 11.3.2/11.3.3 update. There is currently no rational explanation, or simple way of explaining, damage 2.0 according to Update 11.3.x. Check back later when they've settled on... idk... whatever they're trying to do.


Physical Damage
We have 3 physical damage types that (almost) all weapons have, in different amounts. Here they are:

  • Impact - Most effective on shields
  • Puncture - Most effective on armor
  • Slash - Most effective on health/flesh (non-robotic)

That seems simple enough, right? Well, those of you who have been enjoying Pokemon Snap in space, if you check the enemies in your Wardex (Codex), you may notice:

  • Corpus - Have health and shields, but NO armor
  • Grineer - Have health and armor, but NO shields
  • Infested - Have health, but NO armor OR shields

Using those 2 key pieces of knowledge about damage types and enemy types, you should now be able to look at your weapons properly. Let's take a few examples, starting with the loudest complaint: Soma
MjOpCd3.png
Using what you just learned about damage types, you SHOULD be able to see that this is probably never going to be a good weapon to use against high level Corpus. Why? Because Corpus rely on heavy shields which are weak to impact damage, of which Soma sadly has little to begin with. Soma is fairly even on puncture and slash however, with high crit. This means you should boost your puncture/slash damage, slap on some crit mods, and you'll be able to destroy Grineer and Infested. Soma is now most efficient and effective against Grineer and Infested, so stop taking it into missions against Corpus and expecting miracles.

R2ZFOkj.jpg
So now looking at the Boar, out of the 3 physical damages, it has high impact and medium slash damage. Judging from that alone, your most beneficial build will be as an anti-Corpus weapon, because Corpus shields are weak against impact damage, and Crewmen's health is weak to Slash. Also, the extra slash damage Boar has is nice, because when elemental damages are calculated, they're based on the percentage of your total physical damage (Impact + Puncture + Slash). So it may be worthwhile to boost Boar's slash damage as well.

3GjUIoW.png
Despair has a large chunk of base puncture damage, which is most effective on armor. The proper build here would be focusing on boosting puncture, slapping on a max No Return mod for +60% puncture damage. Why not use a max Razor Shot mod too, so I can boost Slash damage by 60%? Well, look at the math:

  • Base puncture damage * 60% is equal to 44 * 1.6 = 70.4 damage
  • Base slash damage * 60% is equal to 8.2 * 1.6 = 13.12 damage... kinda feels like you wasted power points by using this mod for an extra ~5 damage, huh?

Here's a quick cheat sheet for determining builds at a glance (Updated for 11.0.7):
5W8yb5u.png



Elemental Damage
There are 10 possible elemental types, but that doesn't mean you should use all of them at once. Just like with the physical damage types, some elemental types are more useful on certain weapons than others. Here's a quick overview of what they are and how they combine:
uqSxITt.png
Well, if you played with the old damage system, you know Corpus shields are weak against Cold, and they can be stunned by Electricity if they don't have shields up. Infested have resistance to electricity, but are particularly weak to Heat. Grineer are really tough, but Corrosive causes heavy damage to their thick armor, leaving the exposed flesh open to Heat, Viral, and Blast damage.

The number one rule with Damage 2.0 is:

  • Use the right tool for the job, and compliment your weapon's base stats.

Learn to think of your weapons as anti-Corpus, anti-Grineer, or anti-Infested. When you start viewing it like that, it becomes completely obvious that you need to use an elemental that Corpus are weak against on your anti-Corpus weapon. If you've got a high puncture weapon, you're going to want the Corrosive element as well, because that's what Grineer are weak against.  A heavy impact weapon? That's great for Corpus, so add on some Magnetic element. Slash weapons are particularly useful for... you guessed it, Infested! Simply add some Heat and Blast damage and go eradicate some Infested areas of the galaxy.

The primary elementals are fairly straightforward, but I also like to divide the combined elementals into 2 categories:
Utility

  • Blast - Stun/knockdown
  • Gas - Poison AoE
  • Radiation - Confusion and slowed fire rate/reduced accuracy

Direct

  • Magnetic - Shield reduction
  • Viral - Health reduction
  • Corrosive - Armor reduction/removal

Utility is most useful as a secondary effect, on top of a primary effect you've given your weapon. For example, Embolist already defaults to Toxin damage (a primary), and it's really nice to have Blast (secondary from fire and ice) on top of that to keep things locked down.

29uixir.jpg



Hopefully that explains most of what DE Scott intended, and it really is an elegant design for weapons and enemies, once the kinks are worked out and it's explained to players better in-game. Any more questions?

Updates:

  • DE_Steve has suggested Radiation against Grineer, and testing it out with Synapse shows little penetration through Armor, but to non-armored Grineer health it's fairly effective. (Although in-game codex states no weakness)
  • Added FAQ below based on questions in this thread.
  • Updated information further based on testing and feedback (Thanks to: Phoenix86, NegimaSonic, MeduSalem)
  • Updated according to U11.3.3, I guess.  Hugely controversial update to Damage 2.0, which... dunno... I can't think of any way to explain it in its current state, sorry guys.  Updated the cheat sheet at the top at least.

FAQ Follow-up Questions


Q: Is it true that there are no more armor-ignoring damage types in Damage 2.0?
A: Boost your weapon's Puncture to gain better damage against armored enemies.  You can also use the Corrosive element to reduce/remove armor, along with the Aura mod, Corrosive Projection.

Q: Do bullet type damage not work on Pure Elemental weapons (Ignis, Synpase, etc.) or was that a UI thing?
A: The unique elemental weapons (Ogris, Ignis, Synapse, etc.) use their elemental damage type as default, instead of physical damage. You can still increase this damage by using same element and generic damage mods like Serration. Example: Ogris is 300 Blast damage base, equipped with max Serration (+165%) gives it 300 * 2.65 = 795 Blast damage.

Q: Also how does status chance work? Does it allow for every damage type that the weapon has to hit special effects?
A: In patch 11.0.2, they added icons to damage numbers indicating when Statuses proc from your weapons. You'll notice the status chance is somewhat low for certain weapons, and higher for others. Unfortunately now, just because you're using Cold on your Kunai, it doesn't mean you'll be freezing enemies with every shot; the Frozen/Slowed status effect only has a small chance to proc, depending on the weapon's Status Chance. A further note, is that most of the time when a Physical status procs, it will be the status of type of damage that you have the most of on that weapon. So if you have high impact on a weapon, if a physical status procs, it will most likely be Impact's stun/knockback.

Q: What does armor/puncture damage amount do, exactly? Do enemies now have a set amount of armor (like shields and health) that you blast through before doing damage to health? Or does armor prevent X% of damage from reaching health, and when you deplete the armor you do 100% health damage?
A: Armor does not deplete like shields, but you can reduce/remove an enemy's armor using Corrosive status effects, the Corrosive Projection aura mod, and possibly other mods/abilities. Armor works like mitigation and prevents X % of damage from reaching health, so you'd probably want more puncture than the other two physical types.

Q: Is slash the only physical damage type that lowers health, essentially making the other physical damages useless on low level Infested?
A: No, all damage types are supposed to be able to damage health, but Slash is more effective at reducing non-robotic health fast. It's also cautioned that Impact and Puncture are up to 50% less effective against Infested, meaning you would be better using a weapon whose physical damage was mostly focused on Slash.

Q: So we're pretty much forced to go a one build kind of way with weapons?
A: Somewhat, but not really. For physical damage you're usually better off complimenting your weapon's base stats, but you can find a lot of versatility in the effects you put on it. Technically you could also fit up to 3 elemental effects on your weapon, utility and otherwise, but they may be competing for proc chance (we're not sure yet). It's really just up to your personal preference at the time, what you want to go for...

For example, Synapse is a beautifully versatile weapon. It defaults as electric damage, which can be:

  • Boosted purely as Electric, or
  • Combined with Cold to form Magnetic and drain Corpus shields fast, or
  • Combined with Heat to form Radiation to debilitate and confuse most enemies, or
  • Combined with Toxin to form Corrosive and melt Grineer armor, or
  • Combined with one of the above and Blast/Gas for even more crowd control possibilities...
Edited by _Aahz
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1. Thanks!

 

2. Just need a little clarification on elemental damage.  So if my screen says I am doing 500 Corrosive, because I put Stormbringer and Infected Clip in my rifle, it will actually DO that damage every shot, or it will only do that if it procs?  Makes a huge difference on the build.

 

3. How does Charged Melee damage work?  It is just a number, not a I/P/S number.

 

4. Thanks!!

Ur Elemental dammage work same like 1.0

Just now with Combined Elemental Type, u have a Chance to Proc some effect :P

Corrosiv debuff armor stack, so u not gonna really see the difference with only one Corrosiv proc.

 

Sry for my eng !

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we can obtain 2 kind of combined damage in 1 weapon.. but it only works on top mod box ( from left to right ) but this so ridiculously sistem rip off the old player that have formaed the weapons 5 times or more.. soo DE please help repair this combined damage system, just think how many formas and times to erase the old "v" on top and make the new "v" on bottom..

 

so please DE make wise decision for old player

Agree with you, but so easy to get Forma :P

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So, after doing some work last night, the combine elements to make a new element only take the base damage and modifiers of element damage on the elemental itself with damage/chance modifers?, >.>, So there really is no point in going for high end impact,puncture and slash..... For examples purposes.

 

Braton Prime:

 

Impact:1.3

Puncture: 8.8

Slash: 15.0

for a total damage of 25.1

 

Ok so lets add a Max Serration (165%) and a Max Split Chamber (90%) to those 3 total damages. Which if properly done you should have a total damage of

 

Serration 165% in brackets is what it should be

Impact: 3.3 (3.44)

Puncture: 23.1 (23.32)

Slash: 39.6 (39.75)

            =66 (66.51) total damage

 

Split Chamber 90% in brackets is what it should be

Impact: 2.5 (2.47)

Puncture: 17.5 (16.72)

Slash 30.0 (28.5)

          =50 (47.69) total damage

 

So total you should have by the in game calculations with them being separated

 

Together you should get this

 

Serration + Split Chamber If we added the brackets together you should get the real answer in [  ]

Impact: 6.6 (6.2) [6.5]

Puncture:46.2 (43.89) [44.30]

Slash: 79.2 (75.24) [75.52]

 

 

So now that all that mumble jumble is done time to get to the real part of all of this  nonsense, the elemental damage.

 

Now if we add Impact + Puncture + Slash for total with both Serration and Split Chamber you should get a total of 132,for this next example I'll be just adding 2 elemental mods [ 90% x 2=(180%)] 180% of your added total 132 = 237.6 which is how you get your elemental damage.

 

Problem is That it ONLY INCREASES IF YOU ADD MORE ELEMENTAL OR % DAMAGE. It does not increase if you add more impact,puncture or slash. Its only taking the Base Damage + Serrations 165%+Split chamber 90%+Same Elemental if its not combined.

(Example: Hellfire90%+Cryo Rounds90%+ Wildfire60% = 240% of 132 = 303.168 should be your Blast damage, in game its 316.8)  into account another with the elemental damage.

 

Also either the UI calculations are off or the damage system is not using the proper #'s.

 

What I'm trying to say here is right now how this system is at the state you're better off going in for stacking elemental damage then trying to add more impact,puncture and slash damage.

 

P.S Check my math if you feel like I'm wrong on this.

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Yeah GraveFire , but some need impact/slash/piercing dammage Look Despair

 

And if u have the sobek With 90 impact / 15 puncture / 15 Slash look when u put Accelerated Blast (60%speed attaack 60% puncture dammage)

U go 90/87/15 (BUG?) sound likke Accelerated Blast give "bonus Attack Speed" only on Puncture but not on Impact and Slash :d

Because if u put Flechette (30% puncture dammage) u get only 90/19.5/15 :D

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1. Thanks!

 

2. Just need a little clarification on elemental damage.  So if my screen says I am doing 500 Corrosive, because I put Stormbringer and Infected Clip in my rifle, it will actually DO that damage every shot, or it will only do that if it procs?  Makes a huge difference on the build.

 

3. How does Charged Melee damage work?  It is just a number, not a I/P/S number.

 

4. Thanks!!

2. Yes it does that damage every shot, though some of it is modified by the usual resistances and armor of course.

 

3. I don't know. I focused on testing elementals because that's the easiest to see from a safe distance. Someone else asked this question somewhere else and I came up with a POSSIBLE method to test it. I just really don't want to actually TRY it.

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/137168-melee-damage-20/#entry1636032

 

 

we can obtain 2 kind of combined damage in 1 weapon.. but it only works on top mod box ( from left to right ) but this so ridiculously sistem rip off the old player that have formaed the weapons 5 times or more.. soo DE please help repair this combined damage system, just think how many formas and times to erase the old "v" on top and make the new "v" on bottom..

 

so please DE make wise decision for old player

It isn't exactly top mod box, it is still left to right though.

[1][2][3][4]

[5][6][7][8]

 

If you put Hellfire on [2]. Cryo Rounds on [5] Infested Clip on [6] and Stormbringer on [7], you will get Blast + Corrosive.

But if you put, Hellfire on [5]. Cryo Rounds on [6] Infested Clip on [7] and Stormbringer on [8], you will still get Blast + Corrosive.

 

But yes, if you forma'd every slot of your weapon or the weapon has natural polarities that would go against this, you're kind of screwed. Still, considering this is a big complaint (doesn't affect me), chances are DE will do something about it. Give em a bit. In the meantime try and get some other weapon.

 

 

 

-snip-

 

I have 3 minutes til class so I can only try and think fast here.

But yes, only increasing OVERALL base damage through serration or adding more elemental increases elemental damage.

 

If you want to guess why it is probably like this, consider the old system. Adding AP added to your damage, but that didn't make your elements stronger. It's kind of the same.

 

I entered 132 * 2.4 in Windows calculator though and it comes out to be 316.8.

 

Still as Kurtd suggests, you can add more damage if it is a shotgun or melee through their respective glitched nightmare mode puncture mods because they still act like the old AP and increase puncture damage relative to your WHOLE weapon damage. AFAIK other weapons don't have this ability though.

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Kurtd, on 25 Nov 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

Yeah GraveFire , but some need impact/slash/piercing dammage Look Despair

And if u have the sobek With 90 impact / 15 puncture / 15 Slash look when u put Accelerated Blast (60%speed attaack 60% puncture dammage)

U go 90/87/15 (BUG?) sound likke Accelerated Blast give "bonus Attack Speed" only on Puncture but not on Impact and Slash :d

Because if u put Flechette (30% puncture dammage) u get only 90/19.5/15 :D

So for your example of the Sobek, we are using Accelerated Blast correct ? That has to be a bug with just the Sobek.

I've done testing with Accelerated Blast on a few other shotguns just to make sure, with Strun,Strun Wraith, Hex,Boar and Boar Prime think of that has a only a bug.

So with Despair (Mine is not catalyst so can't really do to much testing cause of it)

But for all purposes. Mine has a Max Hornet Strike 220% and a Max Barrel Diffusion 120% which increase it to 281.6 flat puncture now(17.6 impact,52.8Slash and 281.6). Now lets add some elemental damage 180% of 352 = 633.6 to whatever elemental I decided to go. Now cause of how the elemental damage on this weapon is now Its most effective against Corpus/ Infested. Making it worthless to grineer.

Edited by Gravefire
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Yeah GraveFire , but some need impact/slash/piercing dammage Look Despair

 

And if u have the sobek With 90 impact / 15 puncture / 15 Slash look when u put Accelerated Blast (60%speed attaack 60% puncture dammage)

U go 90/87/15 (BUG?) sound likke Accelerated Blast give "bonus Attack Speed" only on Puncture but not on Impact and Slash :d

Because if u put Flechette (30% puncture dammage) u get only 90/19.5/15 :D

Currently, it seems that both Accelerated Blast and Rending Strike (both giving 60% puncture damage) add to the puncture stat based on the total physical damage of the gun, instead of only the puncture stat.

 

Sobek has a total damage of 120. Following that:

 

Accel Blast bonus = 120*(0.6) = 72

 

Puncture Bonus = 72 + 15 = 87

 

This goes for every weapon compatible with the two aformentioned mods.

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I have 3 minutes til class so I can only try and think fast here.

But yes, only increasing OVERALL base damage through serration or adding more elemental increases elemental damage.

 

If you want to guess why it is probably like this, consider the old system. Adding AP added to your damage, but that didn't make your elements stronger. It's kind of the same.

 

I entered 132 * 2.4 in Windows calculator though and it comes out to be 316.8.

 

Still as Kurtd suggests, you can add more damage if it is a shotgun or melee through their respective glitched nightmare mode puncture mods because they still act like the old AP and increase puncture damage relative to your WHOLE weapon damage. AFAIK other weapons don't have this ability though.

 

What I should be really getting at is overall it should include more than just based damage, If you decided to add more impact,puncture,slash it should go towards your elemental damage and not this half &#! feeling that my weapon is useless if I have to have Serration, Split Chamber + Heavy Caliber to increase the elemental damage along with one of those 2 elemental damage.

Edited by Gravefire
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Currently, it seems that both Accelerated Blast and Rending Strike (both giving 60% puncture damage) add to the puncture stat based on the total physical damage of the gun, instead of only the puncture stat.

 

Sobek has a total damage of 120. Following that:

 

Accel Blast bonus = 120*(0.6) = 72

 

Puncture Bonus = 72 + 15 = 87

 

This goes for every weapon compatible with the two aformentioned mods.

U calculating Puncture dammage using total dammage, wrong :P

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Just wanted to throw out, yes, either UI is glitched or damage calculations are glitched, when it comes to physical damage increasing elemental damage.  When you put an elemental on a physical damage weapon, it is currently bugged and only calculates the elemental damage from the weapon's base damage, instead of the modified weapon damage (from adding +impact/puncture/slash mods).  Until they fix this bug, only the increased generic damage mods like Serration will boost elemental damage.

 

Also, I'm currently analyzing some survival videos to get an idea of how much stats enemies have, and how it scales with increasing levels.  Will hopefully be able to graph it and see the solid line of how it ramps up.  Once I can determine the line, it might be easier to see how armor is affecting damage.  A corrosive proc is very useful for removing a Leaper's armor so you can determine how much X damage is taking away from their HP bar...

 

Oh, and fun notes,

  • Trinity's Link will pass on status procs to the linked enemies
  • Gas Dual Ichor are awesome.
  • Gas/Corrosive Stinger is also fairly handy when you're adding to your pokedex... except when enemies get too close.
  • Corrosive/Blast is definitely one of the better all-around combos.
  • Embolist with Blast is hilarious.

Hopefully Wednesday's patch will bring lots of bugfixes and improvements to codex/weapons/UI.  (including adding timer and objective status to the new map, please D:)

Edited by _Aahz
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What I should be really getting at is overall it should include more than just based damage, If you decided to add more impact,puncture,slash it should go towards your elemental damage and not this half &#! feeling that my weapon is useless if I have to have Serration, Split Chamber + Heavy Caliber to increase the elemental damage along with one of those 2 elemental damage.

It SHOULD, but well...that's not the system they use here at this time. It is one of the things I don't like about the system. I have almost no reason to boost individual weapon elements when I can stack more elements. Unless the weapon has a large base stat, then maybe it is worthwhile.

 

 

No, I calculated the bugged puncture damage that happens when you install Accelerated Blast or Rending Strike in their respective weapons.

Yup. They'll likely fix this but honestly they should leave it alone and let the other physical damage modifiers act this way. Because as it is, things like fletchette are a waste when you can just stack another element, damage, or multishot to gain more bonuses versus all factions. I think it is maybe useful if a weapon has high puncture already but even then I'm not honestly sure.

 

 

Oh, and fun notes,

  • Trinity's Link will pass on status procs to the linked enemies
  • Gas Dual Ichor are awesome.
  • Gas/Corrosive Stinger is also fairly handy when you're adding to your pokedex... except when enemies get too close.
  • Corrosive/Blast is definitely one of the better all-around combos.
  • Embolist with Blast is hilarious.

Hopefully Wednesday's patch will bring lots of bugfixes and improvements to codex/weapons/UI.  (including adding timer and objective status to the new map, please D:)

That's something useful for me to know. I was hoping it might but I couldn't be bothered to verify it. Though if this is the case, could it also mean blocking can return procs? I never block so I honestly don't know how that works.

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I dont understand things like Despair/kunai with Impact dammage too :D

 

So Stupid we not Thowing Hammers !

 

 

And low  % chance Proc on , and u need share with this dammage

Edited by Kurtd
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I dont understand things like Despair/kunai with Impact dammage too :D

 

So Stupid we not Thowing Hammers !

 

 

And low  % chance Proc on , and u need share with this dammage

It is better for them not to be fully puncture. It helps their effectiveness against other units.

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but lower chance PROC on the main Dammage :o

Dude, it's like 10 points being given to the other two stats compared to the main 33.8 puncture (on Kunai at least). I'm 80% sure it doesn't hurt your proc for puncture that much.

And it even gives you a (tiny) proc chance for impact and slash compared to none at all. It's my opinion but personally I feel splitting some of your main damage across all three damages is better than all for one. I think that was one of the key complaints about Flux Rifle before they gave it some impact and puncture as well no?

Edited by NegimaSonic
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Not really for some Weap Negima, if u split u fail build

 

and i was speaking about Proc, if i have 5% chance proc and i need share with 2 other crap base dammage i dont think this is really balanced.

Edited by Kurtd
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Thanks for the round up.

 

Puncture against corpus, it should be slash right?

Here's a quick cheat sheet for determining builds at a glance:
JJigbeE.png


 

 

How do I have to order fire, electric, cold and another fire in order to have two combinations instead of one combination and one single element?

 

Where do I get the toxin mods?

 

Do the damagetype mods like piercing hit only affect the specific damage type? Combined with the dmgnerf from 60% to 30% condemning them to a very niche existence?

Edited by skillabstinenz
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Yeah I had hard time to understand this cake called "Damage 2.0"

 

It looked like the damages are nerfed (called this change Nerf 2.0 couple days ago)

 

but after reading your post, everything better than expected. They actually giving low level weapon like Cronus, Braton, burston, Lex, etc etc more useful until mid-game (level 15-20), and high level and exotic weapons more deadly in late game. With the right mods for the weapons, you can build a specialized weapon or all-around weapon.

 

Everything in my arsenal is now a better shiny version. Except for Lato. I gave up. That gun is beyond redemption.

 

But don't you guys think the overall low elemental chance are kinda... useless for us to put elemental? Unless it's a built-in elemental weapon like Ogris, Lecta, Acrid, I pulled many elemental mods from my weapons.

Edited by dataman88
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It SHOULD, but well...that's not the system they use here at this time. It is one of the things I don't like about the system. I have almost no reason to boost individual weapon elements when I can stack more elements. Unless the weapon has a large base stat, then maybe it is worthwhile.

The only reason why its not like how it is right now imo, is cause they're worried that will be the new "rainbow build" but guess we wll have to see.

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