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[Explained] Damage 2.0 Builds, With Cheatsheets!


_Aahz
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Okay, first and most important thing to realize:

  • Do NOT compare the new damage system to old damage system. It is completely different and you're just going to confuse yourself trying to somehow translate new mechanics into the old stuff.

Scott/Grineeer tried to explain it in the livestreams, and DERebecca tried to explain more in the forum, but the great majority of people who logged into U11 were completely confused. So start from scratch, forget the old damage/enemy/weapon system, and realize everything is going to be okay. Now onto some explanations... (btw, TL:DR, pics at the bottom to tell you how to build your weapons, if you don't care about the mechanics).

MblYCuA.png

Info in next spoiler is outdated according to 11.3.2/11.3.3 update. There is currently no rational explanation, or simple way of explaining, damage 2.0 according to Update 11.3.x. Check back later when they've settled on... idk... whatever they're trying to do.


Physical Damage
We have 3 physical damage types that (almost) all weapons have, in different amounts. Here they are:

  • Impact - Most effective on shields
  • Puncture - Most effective on armor
  • Slash - Most effective on health/flesh (non-robotic)

That seems simple enough, right? Well, those of you who have been enjoying Pokemon Snap in space, if you check the enemies in your Wardex (Codex), you may notice:

  • Corpus - Have health and shields, but NO armor
  • Grineer - Have health and armor, but NO shields
  • Infested - Have health, but NO armor OR shields

Using those 2 key pieces of knowledge about damage types and enemy types, you should now be able to look at your weapons properly. Let's take a few examples, starting with the loudest complaint: Soma
MjOpCd3.png
Using what you just learned about damage types, you SHOULD be able to see that this is probably never going to be a good weapon to use against high level Corpus. Why? Because Corpus rely on heavy shields which are weak to impact damage, of which Soma sadly has little to begin with. Soma is fairly even on puncture and slash however, with high crit. This means you should boost your puncture/slash damage, slap on some crit mods, and you'll be able to destroy Grineer and Infested. Soma is now most efficient and effective against Grineer and Infested, so stop taking it into missions against Corpus and expecting miracles.

R2ZFOkj.jpg
So now looking at the Boar, out of the 3 physical damages, it has high impact and medium slash damage. Judging from that alone, your most beneficial build will be as an anti-Corpus weapon, because Corpus shields are weak against impact damage, and Crewmen's health is weak to Slash. Also, the extra slash damage Boar has is nice, because when elemental damages are calculated, they're based on the percentage of your total physical damage (Impact + Puncture + Slash). So it may be worthwhile to boost Boar's slash damage as well.

3GjUIoW.png
Despair has a large chunk of base puncture damage, which is most effective on armor. The proper build here would be focusing on boosting puncture, slapping on a max No Return mod for +60% puncture damage. Why not use a max Razor Shot mod too, so I can boost Slash damage by 60%? Well, look at the math:

  • Base puncture damage * 60% is equal to 44 * 1.6 = 70.4 damage
  • Base slash damage * 60% is equal to 8.2 * 1.6 = 13.12 damage... kinda feels like you wasted power points by using this mod for an extra ~5 damage, huh?

Here's a quick cheat sheet for determining builds at a glance (Updated for 11.0.7):
5W8yb5u.png



Elemental Damage
There are 10 possible elemental types, but that doesn't mean you should use all of them at once. Just like with the physical damage types, some elemental types are more useful on certain weapons than others. Here's a quick overview of what they are and how they combine:
uqSxITt.png
Well, if you played with the old damage system, you know Corpus shields are weak against Cold, and they can be stunned by Electricity if they don't have shields up. Infested have resistance to electricity, but are particularly weak to Heat. Grineer are really tough, but Corrosive causes heavy damage to their thick armor, leaving the exposed flesh open to Heat, Viral, and Blast damage.

The number one rule with Damage 2.0 is:

  • Use the right tool for the job, and compliment your weapon's base stats.

Learn to think of your weapons as anti-Corpus, anti-Grineer, or anti-Infested. When you start viewing it like that, it becomes completely obvious that you need to use an elemental that Corpus are weak against on your anti-Corpus weapon. If you've got a high puncture weapon, you're going to want the Corrosive element as well, because that's what Grineer are weak against.  A heavy impact weapon? That's great for Corpus, so add on some Magnetic element. Slash weapons are particularly useful for... you guessed it, Infested! Simply add some Heat and Blast damage and go eradicate some Infested areas of the galaxy.

The primary elementals are fairly straightforward, but I also like to divide the combined elementals into 2 categories:
Utility

  • Blast - Stun/knockdown
  • Gas - Poison AoE
  • Radiation - Confusion and slowed fire rate/reduced accuracy

Direct

  • Magnetic - Shield reduction
  • Viral - Health reduction
  • Corrosive - Armor reduction/removal

Utility is most useful as a secondary effect, on top of a primary effect you've given your weapon. For example, Embolist already defaults to Toxin damage (a primary), and it's really nice to have Blast (secondary from fire and ice) on top of that to keep things locked down.

29uixir.jpg



Hopefully that explains most of what DE Scott intended, and it really is an elegant design for weapons and enemies, once the kinks are worked out and it's explained to players better in-game. Any more questions?

Updates:

  • DE_Steve has suggested Radiation against Grineer, and testing it out with Synapse shows little penetration through Armor, but to non-armored Grineer health it's fairly effective. (Although in-game codex states no weakness)
  • Added FAQ below based on questions in this thread.
  • Updated information further based on testing and feedback (Thanks to: Phoenix86, NegimaSonic, MeduSalem)
  • Updated according to U11.3.3, I guess.  Hugely controversial update to Damage 2.0, which... dunno... I can't think of any way to explain it in its current state, sorry guys.  Updated the cheat sheet at the top at least.

FAQ Follow-up Questions


Q: Is it true that there are no more armor-ignoring damage types in Damage 2.0?
A: Boost your weapon's Puncture to gain better damage against armored enemies.  You can also use the Corrosive element to reduce/remove armor, along with the Aura mod, Corrosive Projection.

Q: Do bullet type damage not work on Pure Elemental weapons (Ignis, Synpase, etc.) or was that a UI thing?
A: The unique elemental weapons (Ogris, Ignis, Synapse, etc.) use their elemental damage type as default, instead of physical damage. You can still increase this damage by using same element and generic damage mods like Serration. Example: Ogris is 300 Blast damage base, equipped with max Serration (+165%) gives it 300 * 2.65 = 795 Blast damage.

Q: Also how does status chance work? Does it allow for every damage type that the weapon has to hit special effects?
A: In patch 11.0.2, they added icons to damage numbers indicating when Statuses proc from your weapons. You'll notice the status chance is somewhat low for certain weapons, and higher for others. Unfortunately now, just because you're using Cold on your Kunai, it doesn't mean you'll be freezing enemies with every shot; the Frozen/Slowed status effect only has a small chance to proc, depending on the weapon's Status Chance. A further note, is that most of the time when a Physical status procs, it will be the status of type of damage that you have the most of on that weapon. So if you have high impact on a weapon, if a physical status procs, it will most likely be Impact's stun/knockback.

Q: What does armor/puncture damage amount do, exactly? Do enemies now have a set amount of armor (like shields and health) that you blast through before doing damage to health? Or does armor prevent X% of damage from reaching health, and when you deplete the armor you do 100% health damage?
A: Armor does not deplete like shields, but you can reduce/remove an enemy's armor using Corrosive status effects, the Corrosive Projection aura mod, and possibly other mods/abilities. Armor works like mitigation and prevents X % of damage from reaching health, so you'd probably want more puncture than the other two physical types.

Q: Is slash the only physical damage type that lowers health, essentially making the other physical damages useless on low level Infested?
A: No, all damage types are supposed to be able to damage health, but Slash is more effective at reducing non-robotic health fast. It's also cautioned that Impact and Puncture are up to 50% less effective against Infested, meaning you would be better using a weapon whose physical damage was mostly focused on Slash.

Q: So we're pretty much forced to go a one build kind of way with weapons?
A: Somewhat, but not really. For physical damage you're usually better off complimenting your weapon's base stats, but you can find a lot of versatility in the effects you put on it. Technically you could also fit up to 3 elemental effects on your weapon, utility and otherwise, but they may be competing for proc chance (we're not sure yet). It's really just up to your personal preference at the time, what you want to go for...

For example, Synapse is a beautifully versatile weapon. It defaults as electric damage, which can be:

  • Boosted purely as Electric, or
  • Combined with Cold to form Magnetic and drain Corpus shields fast, or
  • Combined with Heat to form Radiation to debilitate and confuse most enemies, or
  • Combined with Toxin to form Corrosive and melt Grineer armor, or
  • Combined with one of the above and Blast/Gas for even more crowd control possibilities...
Edited by _Aahz
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An interesting point I came across last night that I noted:

 

I was doing a T1 exterminate solo for Codex. The Corpus Crewman against my Latron Prime:

 

Headshots were taking 6-8 rounds to drop the shields than 1 round for a kill.

 

Chestshots took 2 rounds from full shields to dead.

 

Corpus crewman obviously aren't prone to headshots from the Prime, but I find it interesting the difference in taking dmg between the head and chest of this particular mob, and wondering if it's the same or similar effects on other mobs.  

 

Can anyone confirm what I was seeing last night in the Void?

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Yepp, they are very much bugged... Very much... With the Vectis I'm able to one-hit Golem J3, but on Corpus Crewmen it doesn't do a damn thing on them, while with the Synapse it somewhat works... But still with very low damage numbers compared to the body. :D

 

Also great update about the enemy weaknesses _Aahz!

Edited by MeduSalem
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This may have already been addressed, but I dont have time atm to sift through 12 pages...

 

 

You probably don't want to use Soma in your example of what not to bring against corpus.  When properly built for crit damage, its base damage is effectively high enough that if you slot for magnetic damage it will still be one of the best weapon options, despite having low innate impact.  This is similar to how in D1.0, even though the soma had no innate armor piercing it still had some of the highest armor piercing DPS.

 

Basically what I go with for now (still might be tweaking)

All Soma builds have

1) Serration

2) Heavy caliber (shred if you want)

3) Point Strike

4) Vital Sense

5) Hammer Shot

6) Split Chamber

 

then for the last 2 slots

Infected clip + Storm bringer (corrosive for Grineer)

or

Stormbringer + Cryo Rounds (magnetic for corpus)

or

Hellfire + Wildfire (for infested, might be something better for this one, still playing around)

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Thank you for the info, but now I have to change everything on my lanka, its useless against greneers lvl 45 (100 before) its a shame it took me 6 shot to kill one of the yellow shotgunners. My mods using where Serration, Split Chamber, Point Strike, Vital Sense, Hammer Shot, Speed Trigger, Shred (30% faster charging + punch trough), Bane of Corpus, all maxed out . Before this new damage It wasnt a big deal the elemental damages because of massive the critical damage but now I have to sacrify 30% of speed and the punch trough, that was really helpfull couse of kill up to 3 enemies with one shot, now on crowded maps its almost useless my lanka, and I invested a LOT on it, time and platinum, 5 formas, I had to actually level it 5 times but totally worth it before, now Its a shame oh and another thing now is so unacurate with no scoping shoots.

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the old "serration weapons" that relied on heavy charge times or draw strings seem to be completely nerfed to oblivion by dmage 2.0 as they didn't change their base damage much and you now cannot move its base damage up by much as its split into 3 smaller numbers, So I now have a non catalyst scindo at lvl 14 out damaging my potatoed paris prime. and a half ranked poison hand pistol that's better than anything I have due to corrosive, there is also the fact that the poison damage mod is really hard to get making some of these weapon combos a lot harder to obtain. Im glad they subdivided enemies more clearly, but I don't like the idea of making weapons only work against one of them very effectively, as orokin viod missions especially t3 are gonna be incredibly rough since melee is suicide, you only have 2 weapons that are viable and the old serration weapons base damage is now crud. you're really limited as to your viable options for late game content as it has to be a gun that provides 2 damage points in high value or incredible fire rate / crit on top of at least 1 high damage type so that you can cover all 3 defense types in 2 guns. I think this kinda shot them in the foot, and did the opposite of what they wanted. Which was more weapons in play and less being considered "useless".

 

It also seemed to remove the reward system for using a weapon that requires skill. as the charge time weapons damage is so low now closing your eyes with a soma seems a lot better reward than charging a prime / lanka shot and having it do maybe 1k damage on its intended target and very low damage on everything else.

Edited by Delgear
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SO now unlike Damage 1.0, Elemntal damage actually affects your weapon's damage abiltiy. How do we fit all of this in just 8 slots?

 

For example, I have a Soma (potato'ed) with this set up:

Split Chamber

vital Sense

Serration

Wild Fire

Piercing Hit

Point Strike

Speed Trigger

 

If I were to change it int a Damage 2.0 build, how would I do it How do I fit mods to improve Slash and Puncture and Status along with Elemental mods, while keeping Speed Trigger and other crit mods?

 

again you could stack hammershot for 60% extra crit damage plus 20% chance for status adding vital with annother 120% crit damage and you can add impact or puncture for extra armour piercing to get more damage to the soma and again add critical chance for that arsenal. you can also pitch in elemental damage and speed rate is not needed on to this soma.

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Are there any decent universal damage builds? Or do you have to build for each enemy type as well?

Pick a weapon.

Up the main damage (Serration, Hornet Strike, etc).

Add any additional mods that can up damage more (Hammershot, Critical Damage things if that's viable for your weapon).

Add as many elements as you can stick on there. The most generic for 3 slots is Corrosive + Heat or Magnetic + Heat. For 4 slots, corrosive + blast or Magnetic + Gas.

This is if you don't wanna switch anything. Switching is better but if you don't want to, those are the most ideal in my opinion.

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Just fought alad V. Took two runs, two different builds on the dual ichor.

First run, was with corrosive and was doing crits from 200ish-2000ish damage on the goons. (MOAs and Crewmen)
When it came to Alad V, it took one smokescreen (was using Ash) and I could combo him to death before my invisibility came off.

Second run, didn't have corrosive but added spoiled strike. was doing crit damage from 600ish-3900ish damage on the goons
When it came to Alad V, did smokescreen, got near and it sucked, hardly did enough damage on one full duration of smokescreen. 

So elementals are far more superior to bosses?
Just wanted to share because it's pretty weird.

-TototApoy

 

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Bosses tend to have more armor than mobs. Corrosive grants you a large armor bonus.

Additionally, regular corpus mobs at that level don't have much (if any armor).

 

So yes, elementals, specifically corrosive and perhaps a few of the lesser armor bonus ones like Blast, are superior on bosses.

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