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[Explained] Damage 2.0 Builds, With Cheatsheets!


_Aahz
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Okay, first and most important thing to realize:

  • Do NOT compare the new damage system to old damage system. It is completely different and you're just going to confuse yourself trying to somehow translate new mechanics into the old stuff.

Scott/Grineeer tried to explain it in the livestreams, and DERebecca tried to explain more in the forum, but the great majority of people who logged into U11 were completely confused. So start from scratch, forget the old damage/enemy/weapon system, and realize everything is going to be okay. Now onto some explanations... (btw, TL:DR, pics at the bottom to tell you how to build your weapons, if you don't care about the mechanics).

MblYCuA.png

Info in next spoiler is outdated according to 11.3.2/11.3.3 update. There is currently no rational explanation, or simple way of explaining, damage 2.0 according to Update 11.3.x. Check back later when they've settled on... idk... whatever they're trying to do.


Physical Damage
We have 3 physical damage types that (almost) all weapons have, in different amounts. Here they are:

  • Impact - Most effective on shields
  • Puncture - Most effective on armor
  • Slash - Most effective on health/flesh (non-robotic)

That seems simple enough, right? Well, those of you who have been enjoying Pokemon Snap in space, if you check the enemies in your Wardex (Codex), you may notice:

  • Corpus - Have health and shields, but NO armor
  • Grineer - Have health and armor, but NO shields
  • Infested - Have health, but NO armor OR shields

Using those 2 key pieces of knowledge about damage types and enemy types, you should now be able to look at your weapons properly. Let's take a few examples, starting with the loudest complaint: Soma
MjOpCd3.png
Using what you just learned about damage types, you SHOULD be able to see that this is probably never going to be a good weapon to use against high level Corpus. Why? Because Corpus rely on heavy shields which are weak to impact damage, of which Soma sadly has little to begin with. Soma is fairly even on puncture and slash however, with high crit. This means you should boost your puncture/slash damage, slap on some crit mods, and you'll be able to destroy Grineer and Infested. Soma is now most efficient and effective against Grineer and Infested, so stop taking it into missions against Corpus and expecting miracles.

R2ZFOkj.jpg
So now looking at the Boar, out of the 3 physical damages, it has high impact and medium slash damage. Judging from that alone, your most beneficial build will be as an anti-Corpus weapon, because Corpus shields are weak against impact damage, and Crewmen's health is weak to Slash. Also, the extra slash damage Boar has is nice, because when elemental damages are calculated, they're based on the percentage of your total physical damage (Impact + Puncture + Slash). So it may be worthwhile to boost Boar's slash damage as well.

3GjUIoW.png
Despair has a large chunk of base puncture damage, which is most effective on armor. The proper build here would be focusing on boosting puncture, slapping on a max No Return mod for +60% puncture damage. Why not use a max Razor Shot mod too, so I can boost Slash damage by 60%? Well, look at the math:

  • Base puncture damage * 60% is equal to 44 * 1.6 = 70.4 damage
  • Base slash damage * 60% is equal to 8.2 * 1.6 = 13.12 damage... kinda feels like you wasted power points by using this mod for an extra ~5 damage, huh?

Here's a quick cheat sheet for determining builds at a glance (Updated for 11.0.7):
5W8yb5u.png



Elemental Damage
There are 10 possible elemental types, but that doesn't mean you should use all of them at once. Just like with the physical damage types, some elemental types are more useful on certain weapons than others. Here's a quick overview of what they are and how they combine:
uqSxITt.png
Well, if you played with the old damage system, you know Corpus shields are weak against Cold, and they can be stunned by Electricity if they don't have shields up. Infested have resistance to electricity, but are particularly weak to Heat. Grineer are really tough, but Corrosive causes heavy damage to their thick armor, leaving the exposed flesh open to Heat, Viral, and Blast damage.

The number one rule with Damage 2.0 is:

  • Use the right tool for the job, and compliment your weapon's base stats.

Learn to think of your weapons as anti-Corpus, anti-Grineer, or anti-Infested. When you start viewing it like that, it becomes completely obvious that you need to use an elemental that Corpus are weak against on your anti-Corpus weapon. If you've got a high puncture weapon, you're going to want the Corrosive element as well, because that's what Grineer are weak against.  A heavy impact weapon? That's great for Corpus, so add on some Magnetic element. Slash weapons are particularly useful for... you guessed it, Infested! Simply add some Heat and Blast damage and go eradicate some Infested areas of the galaxy.

The primary elementals are fairly straightforward, but I also like to divide the combined elementals into 2 categories:
Utility

  • Blast - Stun/knockdown
  • Gas - Poison AoE
  • Radiation - Confusion and slowed fire rate/reduced accuracy

Direct

  • Magnetic - Shield reduction
  • Viral - Health reduction
  • Corrosive - Armor reduction/removal

Utility is most useful as a secondary effect, on top of a primary effect you've given your weapon. For example, Embolist already defaults to Toxin damage (a primary), and it's really nice to have Blast (secondary from fire and ice) on top of that to keep things locked down.

29uixir.jpg



Hopefully that explains most of what DE Scott intended, and it really is an elegant design for weapons and enemies, once the kinks are worked out and it's explained to players better in-game. Any more questions?

Updates:

  • DE_Steve has suggested Radiation against Grineer, and testing it out with Synapse shows little penetration through Armor, but to non-armored Grineer health it's fairly effective. (Although in-game codex states no weakness)
  • Added FAQ below based on questions in this thread.
  • Updated information further based on testing and feedback (Thanks to: Phoenix86, NegimaSonic, MeduSalem)
  • Updated according to U11.3.3, I guess.  Hugely controversial update to Damage 2.0, which... dunno... I can't think of any way to explain it in its current state, sorry guys.  Updated the cheat sheet at the top at least.

FAQ Follow-up Questions


Q: Is it true that there are no more armor-ignoring damage types in Damage 2.0?
A: Boost your weapon's Puncture to gain better damage against armored enemies.  You can also use the Corrosive element to reduce/remove armor, along with the Aura mod, Corrosive Projection.

Q: Do bullet type damage not work on Pure Elemental weapons (Ignis, Synpase, etc.) or was that a UI thing?
A: The unique elemental weapons (Ogris, Ignis, Synapse, etc.) use their elemental damage type as default, instead of physical damage. You can still increase this damage by using same element and generic damage mods like Serration. Example: Ogris is 300 Blast damage base, equipped with max Serration (+165%) gives it 300 * 2.65 = 795 Blast damage.

Q: Also how does status chance work? Does it allow for every damage type that the weapon has to hit special effects?
A: In patch 11.0.2, they added icons to damage numbers indicating when Statuses proc from your weapons. You'll notice the status chance is somewhat low for certain weapons, and higher for others. Unfortunately now, just because you're using Cold on your Kunai, it doesn't mean you'll be freezing enemies with every shot; the Frozen/Slowed status effect only has a small chance to proc, depending on the weapon's Status Chance. A further note, is that most of the time when a Physical status procs, it will be the status of type of damage that you have the most of on that weapon. So if you have high impact on a weapon, if a physical status procs, it will most likely be Impact's stun/knockback.

Q: What does armor/puncture damage amount do, exactly? Do enemies now have a set amount of armor (like shields and health) that you blast through before doing damage to health? Or does armor prevent X% of damage from reaching health, and when you deplete the armor you do 100% health damage?
A: Armor does not deplete like shields, but you can reduce/remove an enemy's armor using Corrosive status effects, the Corrosive Projection aura mod, and possibly other mods/abilities. Armor works like mitigation and prevents X % of damage from reaching health, so you'd probably want more puncture than the other two physical types.

Q: Is slash the only physical damage type that lowers health, essentially making the other physical damages useless on low level Infested?
A: No, all damage types are supposed to be able to damage health, but Slash is more effective at reducing non-robotic health fast. It's also cautioned that Impact and Puncture are up to 50% less effective against Infested, meaning you would be better using a weapon whose physical damage was mostly focused on Slash.

Q: So we're pretty much forced to go a one build kind of way with weapons?
A: Somewhat, but not really. For physical damage you're usually better off complimenting your weapon's base stats, but you can find a lot of versatility in the effects you put on it. Technically you could also fit up to 3 elemental effects on your weapon, utility and otherwise, but they may be competing for proc chance (we're not sure yet). It's really just up to your personal preference at the time, what you want to go for...

For example, Synapse is a beautifully versatile weapon. It defaults as electric damage, which can be:

  • Boosted purely as Electric, or
  • Combined with Cold to form Magnetic and drain Corpus shields fast, or
  • Combined with Heat to form Radiation to debilitate and confuse most enemies, or
  • Combined with Toxin to form Corrosive and melt Grineer armor, or
  • Combined with one of the above and Blast/Gas for even more crowd control possibilities...
Edited by _Aahz
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So what is the point of Viral damage? When Corrosive (Griner) and Magnetic (Both crewman and moa) all ready slaughter even high level enemies.

 

well...it depends on how you look at it. There could be someone who values the flesh bonus more. Or the effect itself, personally I don't trust the effect, it's kind of weird the few times I've tested it.

whhhyyyyyyyy......

Is Viral not for infested?

They are mutaded animals, they have flesh. What is going on here?

Blame the devs. Infested are not flesh. However, some prefer viral for the weird -50% temporary health thing that it offers, so there's that. But damagewise it is no different than radiation or any of the other dual elements (except blast which is stronger on infested).

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Pick a weapon.

Up the main damage (Serration, Hornet Strike, etc).

Add any additional mods that can up damage more (Hammershot, Critical Damage things if that's viable for your weapon).

Add as many elements as you can stick on there. The most generic for 3 slots is Corrosive + Heat or Magnetic + Heat. For 4 slots, corrosive + blast or Magnetic + Gas.

This is if you don't wanna switch anything. Switching is better but if you don't want to, those are the most ideal in my opinion.

Hey Negima ;D

Actually I worked on the sheets again yesterday (To add a better Armor calculation, it's not finished yet) and found out for Rifles and Shotguns that Heat (with Hellfire+Wildfire) + Corrosive is actually AS good (gives EXACTLY the same damage) as Blast + Corrosive (only with Hellfire)... and gives you the advantage of having the Bonus Magazinge capacity stat of Wildfire. So for 4 slots that works more to your advantage than Blast + Corrosive. I bet many people don't know that yet.

Also the same applies to Corpus... Heat (with Hellfire+Wildfire) + Magnetic does about 1% more damage than Gas+Magnetic (only with Hellfire)... probably because Gas has -50% multiplier to Robotics and doesn't do as much damage against Flesh as Heat, therefore isn't as good in average against Corpus.

Edited by MeduSalem
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A few do (I got in a wiki "discussion" about it) but telling more people is always better. Having a variety of options is good since not everyone would have wildfire after all. however, this only really applies to rifles.

 

For shotguns, their nightmare fire mod, Blaze, comes with a +60% damage bonus in addition to the fire, so that pretty much surpasses Blast due to it actually helping every element.

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A few do (I got in a wiki "discussion" about it) but telling more people is always better. Having a variety of options is good since not everyone would have wildfire after all. however, this only really applies to rifles.

 

For shotguns, their nightmare fire mod, Blaze, comes with a +60% damage bonus in addition to the fire, so that pretty much surpasses Blast due to it actually helping every element.

 

That's correct... Nobody would leave out on Blaze, when they have it.

 

Another thing I found out is that the Physical Damage mods are quite useless on Rifles and some Pistol Configurations. Even if the weapon is tiered towards one single Physical Damage Type, it's still useless because of adding only 30% bonus damage to that Physical Damage stat. The elementals don't profit from boosting your Physical damage stats at all. They don't scale up if you add for example Piercing Hit. So in short terms, forget about Physical mods on rifles. Don't even think about them, not worth the Modpoints. Every and I mean every, Elemental adds much more damage... :D

Edited by MeduSalem
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Yeah I agree. Personally, I'm not even sure if it is worth it on Pistols, but I believe the bonus there is somewhat more usable. I didn't do extensive testing for that but with one setup on the Akbolto I did 127 damage with 180% damage, 60% puncture, and 90% blast on a lancer. And on another run I did 134 with 180% damage, 150% blast on a lancer.

 

Elements came out on top again but the bonus wasn't as large compared to the mod cost.

BUT this was only on a weapon that had a good amount of puncture to begin with. The other stats...not so much (slash is even non-existent on this weapon). And this wasn't even Corrosive. So as a general case, I'd still pick elements over physical unless I'm in need of the points.

 

Shotguns still have the broken Accelerated Blast though so it's probably more worth it as long as that works.

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Hello _Aahz

Awesome thread. For those who have been around a while and have spent time crafting their weapons would you say it is currently better for players to stick to one elemental combo dependant on faction (ie magnetic vs corpus) over allocating three slots for Impact, Slash and Puncture to raise the weapon's base damage? (In short should I prioritize elemental over physical mods when it comes to fine tuning a weapon?)

Edited by Warwickane
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Hello _Aahz

Awesome thread. For those who have been around a while and have spent time crafting their weapons would you say it is currently better for players to stick to one elemental combo dependant on faction (ie magnetic vs corpus) over allocating three slots for Impact, Slash and Puncture to raise the weapon's base damage? (In short should I prioritize elemental over physical mods when it comes to fine tuning a weapon?)

Or...you could do 3 elements, (1 combo and one extra element). Or 1 combo and ONE damage increasing mod. If you have the mod points for it of course.

 

In general, on most weapons it is a waste of time trying to increase all three physical stats separately. Especially on rifles (see the above discussion with MeduSalem), a 30% increase in one stat is generally not worth more than a 90% elemental damage increase. If you're going to raise individual stats, do only one for the highest natural value on that weapon. Then stick to elements and other things.

 

Also keep in mind some weapons don't have values for all three, like Akbolto. 60% of 0 slash is still 0.

 

Shotguns are the only weapon for now with a must have individual physical damage modifier, and that is SOLELY because Accelerated Blast doesn't work like it "should". It adds puncture based on the whole weapons damage, just like an element. That's the only reason why it is somewhat worthwhile.

 

tl;dr elements>>>individual physical mods

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Hello _Aahz

Awesome thread. For those who have been around a while and have spent time crafting their weapons would you say it is currently better for players to stick to one elemental combo dependant on faction (ie magnetic vs corpus) over allocating three slots for Impact, Slash and Puncture to raise the weapon's base damage? (In short should I prioritize elemental over physical mods when it comes to fine tuning a weapon?)

 

Unfortunately elemental damage is still only based on a weapon's base physical stats, which is most likely an unintentional bug:

base:                        Current:                             Intended? (not what's currently in-game)6.0 Impact                   6.0 Impact                           6.0 Impact6.0 Puncture                 6.0 Puncture                         6.0 Puncture48.0 Slash                   62.4 Slash (base + 30% slash mod)    62.4 Slash (base + 30% slash mod)54.0 Heat (+90% Hellfire)    54.0 Heat (+90% Hellfire)            67.0 Heat (+90% Hellfire)----                         ----                                 ----114 Total damage             128.4 Total                          141.4 Total

I think (hope) the intended design was for elemental % to be calculated based on the weapon's current physical stats, rather than it's base, otherwise there would be little reason to use those (piddly) +30% impact/puncture/slash mods over elementals or generic damage mods.  In the example above, the current damage gain from adding a slash mod is only 14.4 damage, compared to the third "intended" example where elemental % is calculated AFTER mods have increased physical damage, giving a 27.4 damage change just from adding the slash mod.

 

Going with the example above, taking the base damage and adding only the +30% slash mod gives you a gain of 14.4 damage.  As opposed to slapping on a +90% elemental mod, which would give you +54 damage... even better most of the time if you combine +90% elemental mods, so 54 + 54 = 108 combined damage, added on top of your 60.0 physical damage.

 

Long story short, yes, with the current system, it's (usually) best to prioritize in this order:

  • Elemental damage
  • Generic damage
  • Physical type-specific damage

If the type-specific mods are buffed/balanced, or they change the formula to calculate elemental AFTER physical type-specific damage increase mods... that priority may change.

Edited by _Aahz
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This guide is great and all but I still think the damage system is over complicated. Before I loved the fact that I could come around, run a few missions, kill a bunch of stuff and be happy. Now i feel like its f***ing rocket science every time I want to try and mod a weapon so that doesn't suck. Weapons I had that were great are now crap either due to what mods I have installed or the fact that my best weapons were all polarized multiple times and those polarities don't match up to the new way or having to arrange everything.

 

Also this having to have 5 different builds depending on what your fighting is annoying as well. Most of the time people don't want to wait around while you figure out what the best build is for a particular mission (something that now takes a "dummies" book to pull off) and you end up with the wrong weapon/build for whatever it is your doing. I'm sure the system works if you put the time in but that's just it, lots of people don't want to waste or just don't have the time.

 

Its starting to turn me off from the game entirely. I have spent a decent amount of money on this game and will continue to do so as long as its entertaining. Unfortunately I feel like its requiring more and more brain power to play this game when all I want to do is enjoy some mindless killing from time to time.

Edited by maddhax0r
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Yeah this is cool and all, but now the Corpus are so annoying, please get rid of their personal shields, before they were tough enough, now they're so annoying.

 

Hopefully that is never going to happen. They nerfed the Grineer Heavies already as they now have no shields, which overdid the nerfing of enemies for me already. To take shields of the Corpus is against the factions mentality, so it will never happen.

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_Aahz

i like your explanations, i really do, but they work inside the max lvl range on the star map.

you said that slash is best vs crewman health, but somehow my crewman[49](alert, max lvl on star map is ~30-35) had to be shot for about 10 seconds with almost pure slash damage Flux rifle with 500 slash damage in stats and 500 elemental damage more, and that doesn't fit neither into your explanation nor into explanations i ended up with myself....

maybe i missed something?

 

also, on a side note: all this statuses and stuff broke jackal cause he can now be locked in a standing state and shot right into body, not needing his legs to be damaged

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Its starting to turn me off from the game entirely. I have spent a decent amount of money on this game and will continue to do so as long as its entertaining. Unfortunately I feel like its requiring more and more brain power to play this game when all I want to do is enjoy some mindless killing from time to time.

then...don't. We made it pretty simple for ya already. If you don't care to switch on everything. Use Corrosive + Blast (Or Heat). It works on everything to an extent. Sure it is smarter to switch to things like Magnetic for Corpus, but if you don't want to, it is fine. If you don't want to min max, then don't.

 

 

_Aahz

i like your explanations, i really do, but they work inside the max lvl range on the star map.

you said that slash is best vs crewman health, but somehow my crewman[49](alert, max lvl on star map is ~30-35) had to be shot for about 10 seconds with almost pure slash damage Flux rifle with 500 slash damage in stats and 500 elemental damage more, and that doesn't fit neither into your explanation nor into explanations i ended up with myself....

maybe i missed something?

 

also, on a side note: all this statuses and stuff broke jackal cause he can now be locked in a standing state and shot right into body, not needing his legs to be damaged

 

Just because slash works well on Crewmen doesn't mean that it is going to continue to be easy for you to kill them as their level rises, so does their health. Those are former level 122 Corpus. Additionally, you said "500 elemental damage" more, but you didn't specify what element. It makes a big difference if you were using Toxin vs something like Magnetic. Lastly, I don't know if you were counting the time that included the Corpus crewman's shield being up, because if you were, that was a part of it, slash might be good on health but you've gotta beat the shields first and it has no bonus against that.

Edited by NegimaSonic
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The guide helps but it doesnt make the game feel the way it did for me. I just feel so weak and useless now. The dmg seems to make the game more challanging but it also makes the game not fun anymore for solo (I dont have many friend (that like to play this game))

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I don't know if you were counting the time that included the Corpus crewman's shield being up, because if you were, that was a part of it, slash might be good on health but you've gotta beat the shields first and it has no bonus against that.

no i wasnt counting shields, with shields they die million times slower. i believe there is radiation/cold additional on mine

 

but remembering the old armor curve i see that we got same situation but now with all weapons almost without exception

Edited by Pro3Display
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Thanks for all the info.

I hope physical damage mods will be included into the base damage used for calculating elemental effects too.

 

I understood that you don't know yet how it works, but I'm very confused with status chance.

The most simple mechanism seems to be "chance is proportional to damage".

Explanation.

If my weapon deals, say:

- 100 of Impact

- 100 of Puncture

- 100 of Slash

- 300 of one elemental (which one isn't important)

It seems more likely that the status effects will be :

- 1/6 of the time : Impact

- 1/6 of the time : Puncture

- 1/6 of the time : Slash

- 1/2 of the time : the elemental

 

Anybody verified this ?

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Ignoring the last guy because he did get his answer (over in players helping players).

 

-snip-

 

Anybody verified this ?

Sadly I have yet to test that kind of thing but I believe it is more or less how it works based on my casual observations. With it being chance based it kind of upsets things with the way I usually test. Still, perhaps other people have something to input.

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OK, I finally made my own tests to know whether relative status chance was proportional to damage or not. It seems it is not.

Explanation :

 

I took a Brakk (lvl 30, but it doesn't matter I think) and I took off all the mods :

2je1qia.png

Note that the 3 "physical" stats are equal. I went to mercury, killed a couple enemies and noted when a "status" icon showed next to damage numbers. Here are the results :

- impact : 36%

- puncture :  35%

- slash : 29%

I know the "n" isn't high enough (n=125 status effects observed), but it seems the probability is evenly distributed.

Now, I just added 150 magnetic damage. Why magnetic ? Because I knew it had not special effect on Grineer.

2remtes.png

Here are the results :

- impact : 30%

- puncture :  18%

- slash : 27%

- magnetic : 25%

Again, the "n" is low (124 this time), but I think it's enough to prove that my initial thought is wrong : it seems that status chances are evenly distributed between all the type of damage you do, independently on the damage value. Actually I was hoping to get 50% magnetic status effects.

 

Now,  I didn't bother to count the actual number of bullets I shoot, but it would be interesting to know if you have a given status chance (10% in the example) for every damage type independently, or if they share the 10%, meaning that when I add magnetic damage I lower the chances to get status effects for other damage types.

Edited by Lluid
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I think that is interesting but I still wonder a bit about it. What if the weapon's base stats is what determines what shows up the most?

snipetron vandal. Pluto-Palus

Out of a standard ammo size (72 shots) I got like (and when I say like I did estimate), 20 puncture procs, 1 slash proc, 0 impact procs.

(Default stats: 6.3 Impact. 112.5 Puncture. 6.3 Slash. 15% status.).

On an unbalanced weapon it still seems the biggest number wins.

As far as elements..

----------

105% gas

13 Puncture 1 gas

--------

180% gas (all tests below this)

3 puncture 2 gas-death ended early

--------

5 puncture 1 gas-death ended early

---------

1 puncture AND gas

1 impact

1 slash

8 puncture

2 gas

---------------

10 puncture

6 gas

2 gas and puncture

-----------

It seems the main stat always wins. Though perhaps this also depends on how high the main stat is in comparison to other things. I also saw a few physical/elemental procs. I'm not 100% sure what to think about that.

I didn't test double dual elements. Or well I did but things started dying too fast even without serration.

These test weren't very complete so feel free to try it with your own Snipetron Vandal.

Also I need to go watch The Blacklist

EDIT: Commercial.

Here was an after shot of Puncture+Gas. It doesn't prove 100% that they were inflicted at the same time but my sentinel only had vaporize and I don't think it even used that at that distance, so I don't see another alternative.

biAhJhx.jpg

Edited by NegimaSonic
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I really like the idea of this new system, but am I the only one that doesn't want to have to rearrange mods for every planet?  I play all over the place all the time.  Not trying to be a pain, but this IS a pain.  I'm trying to like the new damage system and work with it, but so far it just seems like a lot of redundant work to get my weapons to work the way they used to from one set up.

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