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    • [DE]Danielle

      Getting Support - Common Issues   04/20/2016

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  • 2
_Aahz

[Explained] Damage 2.0 Builds, With Cheatsheets!

Question

392 answers to this question

Looking forward to it. And well I wasn't sure if it was different or not but I figured the whole Melee electric max being 120% and freeze being 60% could change some combos.

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No, if you have 58 blast damage, that is added into each hit.  Having blast damage on your weapon ALSO gives you a chance to proc the Blast status effect, which is stun/knockdown.  Let's take an example, and remember it's guess-timation on my part, just from the testing I've done:

A base Boltor with just unranked Cryo Rounds and Hellfire (+15% cold and +15% heat), yields:

  • 1.8 Impact
  • 14.4 Puncture
  • 1.8 Slash
  • 5.4 Blast
  • 5% Status Chance

Physical Damage totals to 18 damage, so the Blast damage calculates to (18 * .15) + (18 * .15) = 2.7 + 2.7 = 5.4 Blast damage.  Now let's say you take a single shot at a simple level 1 Grineer Lancer.  The formula is always (Impact result + Puncture result + Slash result) + Elemental Damage, and they are calculated individually before being added together to give you those damage numbers you see pop up.

  • Impact returns .5 damage maybe, because Grineer are impact-resistant.
  • Puncture returns near full damage, probably around 14, because Grineer are weak to puncture
  • Slash returns .5 damage maybe, because it's being mitigated largely by the Grineer's armor.
  • Blast returns the full damage probably, around 5.2, because most things are weak to Blast damage I think.

Your average damage each shot on that level 1 Lancer would probably be around ~20, so it would take around 5 shots of this hypothetical Boltor to kill that level 1 Lancer using these new damage calculations.  There's also a 5% chance to proc any of the damage statuses this Boltor has, but I'm not exactly sure if that's 5% across the board or if there's something more complicated.

 

Yes, the damage is separate from the status proc.  The formula is (Impact damage + Puncture + Slash) + Elemental Damage.  Personally I also feel like the higher damage type on your weapon improves the odds of that particular damage type proc'ing its status effect on an enemy.

Thanks for that well-said explanation! This gives me some hope that the Soma isn't to terribly nerfed - so basically, I'll have additional elemental damage per shot, seperate from the Proc chance. I can live with that, and that really explains reducing the crit chance; My previous Soma was doing something like 57 damage or so (20 base + 15 cold + 12 Fire + 10 AP), then last night it was doing IIRC 118 Damage (14 impact + 24 Puncture + 22 Slash + 58 Blast). That makes up for it somewhat. ^_^

 

But damnit, I really shoulda Formaed it when it was easier to do so. :p Ah, well, thanks for your help again!

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I just made a S#&$ty jpg to reusume de calculation way. Sorry for my bad english, have fun ^^

 

1385218737-warframe-damage-2-0-basics.pn

 

NEAT!   Thank you!

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You should update it that Blast now does 25% to infested. So just write out if possible thanks. And great job.

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Seems op´s info was just outdated, it was correct once before the patch as design council was given said info.

Wiki is updated by anyone really, so can get really wrong at times as well. But for now trust the wiki slightly more.

 

Anyway so far it seems:

Flesh = Grineer, since none of the infested take extra dmg from viral (not even the armoured leapers who take half roughly due to armor)

Robotics = Corpus, but doesn't count as a dmg bonus when shields are up.

Armor = obviously enough, codex nicely lists armor for mobs but the leaper entry is wrong though. Armor increases with lvl for mobs. Also turns their health bars green/yellow ish

Shields = Well shields, and doesn't improve/reduce when their shields are gone. Enemy shields do seem to scale with level as well.

 

Still need to do some more tests, but i'll wait till i get a pathogen rounds.

So far, Toxin, Gas, Corrosive & Viral And Electric all seem correct though.

The Toxin line doesn't seem as badly effected by the -robotics tbh, their status effects directly dmg health and you still deal full dmg against shields.

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This finally helped me to fully understand the new damage system. Thank you SO much for this post! I love you <3

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Damage works same as before. Always on. Always adding to your damage just for having it.

It's just "effects" are no longer guaranteed, they're chances to inflict status.

 

Using freeze as an example, instead of inflicting slow every shot, it has a CHANCE to inflict slow. But it still will always deal "freeze" damage. So if you don't care about effects or have to give up slots for other mods, it is extra damage, simple as that.

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Yeah I agree. Personally, I'm not even sure if it is worth it on Pistols, but I believe the bonus there is somewhat more usable. I didn't do extensive testing for that but with one setup on the Akbolto I did 127 damage with 180% damage, 60% puncture, and 90% blast on a lancer. And on another run I did 134 with 180% damage, 150% blast on a lancer.

 

Elements came out on top again but the bonus wasn't as large compared to the mod cost.

BUT this was only on a weapon that had a good amount of puncture to begin with. The other stats...not so much (slash is even non-existent on this weapon). And this wasn't even Corrosive. So as a general case, I'd still pick elements over physical unless I'm in need of the points.

 

Shotguns still have the broken Accelerated Blast though so it's probably more worth it as long as that works.

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That's interesting to see, and does give me some hope that at least not all mods got nerfed. ^_^;

 

Actually yes, this is a point we should do our best to clarify:

Can we interpret the elemental damage mods as giving an increase to damage per shot, and that this increase is actually separate from the elemental proc? 

 

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I'm going to be here forever trying to figure out the meaning of this, but thanks for posting this for me, as I've been gone for over two weeks... Time to catch up!

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I'm sorry, but there seems to be some conflicting information out there.  Either you or the wiki is wrong

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0#Damage_Type_Multipliers

 

Granted I've seen both your cheat sheet AND the wiki get changed in the last day.  According to the wiki, Infested, Corpus and Grineer all have DIFFERENT base health types with different weaknesses and strengths.  The wiki calls them Flesh (grineer unarmored), Infested (all infested), Robot (Corpus without shields).

 

For example, your sheet says infested are VERY WEAK to Viral, when the wiki says that Viral is ONLY good against flesh.  Same with Toxin, Gas, Blast, and Radiation.  None of those have bonuses towards Infested, but rather Flesh, or Grineer.  (Apparently Radiation no longer has a bonus towards Grineer, even though a dev said it at one time and your old graphic had Grineer VERY WEAK to it).

 

This also affects physical damage types.  Slash is good against Flesh and Infested so good for Grineer and Infested.  Impact is good against shields and robotic, so perfect for Corpus.  Puncture is good against Armor and Robotic, so Grineer and Corpus.

 

Since yours got stickied, inferring some sort of reasonably official information, I want to ask what the hell is the correct answer here?  And on top of all of this, apparently DE threw a wrench into the wrench pit because now we are seeing armor coming back on Infested and Corpus on high levels.  All of this miss-information is making my head spin.

Yep, welcome to an open beta game, lol.  Things are subject to change and incorrect information.  Viral is still very effective on "normal" non-armored infested (tested on level 70+ infested, Palus, Pluto), but it is NOT effective against armored Infested.  Leapers only start gaining armor around level ~40 or so, and then they basically switch from being Flesh to being Armored, which require different counter-elementals.

 

Also, Radiation is still effective against Grineer health, which means non-armored Grineer.  The moment the armor is off, they switch from Armored to Flesh, and the elemental effectiveness is changed accordingly.

 

And just because this post is pinned, does not make it official in any way, sorry.  Moderators just thought it was a helpful introduction of where to start when modding weapons for the new damage system.  Moderators themselves don't even necessarily imply "official" word, because they don't work for DE.  I would love to see official word (from DE/Admins) on weaknesses/strengths though... but I doubt they would make it that easy.

 

This is great and all, but this new damage system makes it incredibility grindy to level up a weapon, for the most part I have to stick to a single enemy type, this makes the leveling process a bit of a drag and not very fun...I like the direction 2.0 is going in, but right its annoying to try and level up my weapons.  

I completely agree on this actually... starting with a fresh weapon, you're not only limited on the elementals you can add, but also on the enemies that can be damaged by it.  Seems like the physical damage needs a slight buff on all weapons, so that even on enemies that aren't weak to your weapon's strengths can still be reasonably damaged (only have to use 30-40% more ammo to kill those enemies, instead of the current 200%+ ammo used with some weapons).

 

I'm also interested in finding out since there's a lot of conflicting information. I can confirm that Leapers have a lot of Armor at higher levels and my Flux Rifle (high base Slash damage) modded with Viral and Heat could barely scratch them. And Viral did not seem to be as effective as it's supposed to so it is possible that the "flesh" damage type does not apply to infested.

More accurate and official information about damage types and vulnerabilities- ideally in the codex would really help us adjust to the new system.

Anyway so far it seems:

Flesh = Grineer, since none of the infested take extra dmg from viral (not even the armoured leapers who take half roughly due to armor)

Robotics = Corpus, but doesn't count as a dmg bonus when shields are up.

Armor = obviously enough, codex nicely lists armor for mobs but the leaper entry is wrong though. Armor increases with lvl for mobs. Also turns their health bars green/yellow ish

Shields = Well shields, and doesn't improve/reduce when their shields are gone. Enemy shields do seem to scale with level as well.

 

Still need to do some more tests, but i'll wait till i get a pathogen rounds.

So far, Toxin, Gas, Corrosive & Viral And Electric all seem correct though.

The Toxin line doesn't seem as badly effected by the -robotics tbh, their status effects directly dmg health and you still deal full dmg against shields.

Like I stated above, if the Infested has Armor (yellow HP bar instead of red), it is not treated as a Flesh enemy.  If it has armor, it is treated as an Armored enemy, so Viral and Heat will not damage it effectively.  Non-armored Infested are still treated as Flesh, and are damaged effectively by Viral/Heat.

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Screenshot from 11.3.3 codex.

a2aPEdK.jpg

Edit: Oh hey, just noticed they changed +25% bonus damage from Impact to Slash again.  That's nice.

 

Oh nice thanks. I didn't bother scanning them.

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Something's been bugging me since the big update: how does multishot work from now on? Applying straight to weapon stats? Cause i don't see any double/tripple numbers when hitting something. Same with elemental procs - i dont see anything lit on fire or whatever element we're talking, sometimes only small pickaxe (?) icon next to the dmg indicator.

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Thank you very much for your effort to explain this incredible huddle of nonsense! I really hope DEs are going to making towards the so called "final" or "stable" (and maybe "understandable") damage 2.x-system. Because the way it is handled right now is GARBAGE! Amen.

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1. Thanks!

 

2. Just need a little clarification on elemental damage.  So if my screen says I am doing 500 Corrosive, because I put Stormbringer and Infected Clip in my rifle, it will actually DO that damage every shot, or it will only do that if it procs?  Makes a huge difference on the build.

 

3. How does Charged Melee damage work?  It is just a number, not a I/P/S number.

 

4. Thanks!!

Ur Elemental dammage work same like 1.0

Just now with Combined Elemental Type, u have a Chance to Proc some effect :P

Corrosiv debuff armor stack, so u not gonna really see the difference with only one Corrosiv proc.

 

Sry for my eng !

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There is an exception though, if the weapon is melee then it can gain puncture through Rending Strike, or if it is a shotgun it can gain it through Accelerated Blast. But I think there's only like one pure elemental melee so this isn't all that useful. (Still it can be used on any shotgun or melee to add a significant amount of puncture regardless of the default values)

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I don't know if you were counting the time that included the Corpus crewman's shield being up, because if you were, that was a part of it, slash might be good on health but you've gotta beat the shields first and it has no bonus against that.

no i wasnt counting shields, with shields they die million times slower. i believe there is radiation/cold additional on mine

 

but remembering the old armor curve i see that we got same situation but now with all weapons almost without exception

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Just wanted to throw out, yes, either UI is glitched or damage calculations are glitched, when it comes to physical damage increasing elemental damage.  When you put an elemental on a physical damage weapon, it is currently bugged and only calculates the elemental damage from the weapon's base damage, instead of the modified weapon damage (from adding +impact/puncture/slash mods).  Until they fix this bug, only the increased generic damage mods like Serration will boost elemental damage.

 

Also, I'm currently analyzing some survival videos to get an idea of how much stats enemies have, and how it scales with increasing levels.  Will hopefully be able to graph it and see the solid line of how it ramps up.  Once I can determine the line, it might be easier to see how armor is affecting damage.  A corrosive proc is very useful for removing a Leaper's armor so you can determine how much X damage is taking away from their HP bar...

 

Oh, and fun notes,

  • Trinity's Link will pass on status procs to the linked enemies
  • Gas Dual Ichor are awesome.
  • Gas/Corrosive Stinger is also fairly handy when you're adding to your pokedex... except when enemies get too close.
  • Corrosive/Blast is definitely one of the better all-around combos.
  • Embolist with Blast is hilarious.

Hopefully Wednesday's patch will bring lots of bugfixes and improvements to codex/weapons/UI.  (including adding timer and objective status to the new map, please D:)

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An interesting point I came across last night that I noted:

 

I was doing a T1 exterminate solo for Codex. The Corpus Crewman against my Latron Prime:

 

Headshots were taking 6-8 rounds to drop the shields than 1 round for a kill.

 

Chestshots took 2 rounds from full shields to dead.

 

Corpus crewman obviously aren't prone to headshots from the Prime, but I find it interesting the difference in taking dmg between the head and chest of this particular mob, and wondering if it's the same or similar effects on other mobs.  

 

Can anyone confirm what I was seeing last night in the Void?

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3) Follow up to 2, if it indeed no longer works: What do you suggest as builds for those pure elemental weapons that are not toxin element? 

 

From what the UI was telling me last night, and that doesn't necessarily make it correct I didn't test extensively in game, adding a Fire Damage mod to an Ignis will boost it's main damage.  Add an Electricity Damage mod to the Synpase or Prove, boost it's main damage.  Ecetera.

 

 

SO now unlike Damage 1.0, Elemntal damage actually affects your weapon's damage abiltiy. How do we fit all of this in just 8 slots?

 

For example, I have a Soma (potato'ed) with this set up:

Split Chamber

vital Sense

Serration

Wild Fire

Piercing Hit

Point Strike

Speed Trigger

 

If I were to change it int a Damage 2.0 build, how would I do it How do I fit mods to improve Slash and Puncture and Status along with Elemental mods, while keeping Speed Trigger and other crit mods?

 

You're not.  This is now meant to be about making hard choices.  You're not meant to have everything.  You didn't have Elemental mods before other than Wildfire - you don't need them now either.   I was planning to make a post similar to this but breaking down what appears to be the role of each weapon - I don't have the list finished, but the Soma's "role" appears to be as a Critical Build main.  Your best DPS will come from high chance of crit expanded on by an immense rate of fire.  Anything you can add onto that is great but unnecessary.  The weapon will still outperform a similar 10 base damage high fire rate weapon with Elemental mods because of the high crit rate - or at least, appears to be the case depending on your exact load out and what you are facing.

 

Where Crit Builds will shine in a way is that you don't have to worry about needing different elements for the different enemy types you may encounter in a mission.  Just blast them with high amounts of base puncture or slash damage.  But as OP stated, it won't ever be a top contender against shielded Corpus.  Once you get the shields off of them, through whatever means, it will still slash through Crewmen and do decent against MOAs and such.

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Did someone complain that the game was too hard. Because all you did with the update is make the enemy a lot, A LOT stronger and gave players NOTHING.

That's good. Makes for a challenge.

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