Steel Path needs more than just stats.

[Binket_]

As it stands? The current enemy selection is... bland.
For the normal Starchart? These work just fine as a "not quite skilled yet" set of enemies to fight.
They're predictable and their weapons are usually pretty standard.
The occasional planet-specific variant throws enough interest to keep things fresh.

That however does not hold enough merit for Steel Path.
By the time you've reached Steel Path? You've already seen every boss, every enemy, every eximus-- increasing their stats will not make them "interesting" on their own.
If anything, it only serves to further highlight the stronger variants. As a mild threat compared to a niche target.

An easy way to address this is simply creating or using newer variants.
You can easily do this with existing ideas. Most of which can use already-existing code.

Keep in mind, this only works if it's limited to Steel Path.
This is all assuming the player has reached a point where these enemies can be handled effectively.
These aren't the kind that spawn all the time. A tad bit rarer than Eximus enemies for an idea on spawn rate.
"Lethal, but not common enough to completely overrun you" is the mindset here.

• Manic Bombards, the same kind that can appear on Uranus. Very little edits- if any- required.
  I've personally had times where I've seen these outside of Steel Path and they genuinely caught me off guard.
  It's a shame they die so quickly because I kinda wished to fight them a bit longer.
• Manic Heavy Gunners that are agile and ruthless. Similar concept to the Manic Bombards.
  Using dashes to move out of harm's way frequently. 
  They're less focused on evasion compared to their sibling variant and intended to be more aggressive.
• Nitro Napalms have a heavy tank on their back, of which greatly vulnerable to puncture damage.
  Charges to fire a powerful napalm rocket that covers a wide area in rampant flames, similar to ones used by the Saturn Six Fugitives.
  Also wields an augmented Ignis when not charging their "Nitro-Rocket", longer range but a smaller area hit.
  If you can shoot the tank- puncture damage dealing more- while they're charging, you can cause it to explode and damage nearby enemies.
  This is a strong enemy that rewards the gambit to take it out quickly, but punishes if you fail.
• Enhanced Scrambus variants, with dual-disruption auras to use and further modified weaponry to improve lethality.
  These are already pretty interesting enemies due to their modular loadout.
  A much rarer, but tougher one that uses it's ease of mobility more effectively can prove an interesting target to take down.
• Raknoid Ambushers that will often crawl upon walls or ceilings to strike a Tenno by surprise.
  It's common knowledge that players don't look up. This can be used for interesting gimmicks!
  Having small scuttling sounds and sparking particles alert to their position also makes them more fair in the process. 
  As when they jump down, alert players will have a cue that it's around somewhere. Readied weapons in hand.
• Mutalist Anti-MOAs that appear bulkier and visibly tougher. Showing just how ravenous the Infested can be.
  Launching spike harpoons that embed into the terrain.
  Approaching players to them will find it lash out and grapple onto them.
  As it's dragging them in it starts priming a sludge blast that- once detonated- afflicts high damage with either a Corrosive or Viral status being applied.
  Harpoons can be destroyed by weapon fire, of course.
• Undying Flyers which are old Grineer Hellions that have been overrun by Infested, which use their jets to ram the player.
  Some improvements can be made so they can also launch some toxin orbs in their wake.
  They already exist for the most part, just used in one specific Deimos mission for like... a fraction of it's length.
  ^{(Out of all of the factions, you'd think DE would capitalize on the unused Infested the most...)}
• Zealot Proselytizer, Zealot Herald and Zealot Baptizer, all of whom are devoted servants to Arlo who succumbed to the Infested.
  Armed with various weaponry and the ability to provide cover for other Zealots in action, they'll provide an interesting ranged alternative for the Infested to use.
  If left unchecked, they can turn into a much larger problem to deal with. Infested are known to be extremely easy targets since they're strictly melee for the most part.
  Having some with not only ranged options, but impressive support skills makes them high priority for a player to find.
  ^{(Though, again DE. These are hardly used as is. I cannot stress how much fun it would be to fight these guys again in Steel Path missions where they might pose a decent threat, since the room isn't being nuked as hard for once.)}
• While we're at it, let's consider a non-combative type of enemy... something like a Fleetfoot Hoarder.
  (This one can be found outside of Steel Path, but will generally be found more often in said mode than normal.)
  A thief found in lockers occasionally that flees upon being found. Moving erratically and swiftly, but never attacking directly.
  They will vanish similar to the Treasurer enemy, but with a much faster teleport period.
  Conceptually made to reward players for checking extra areas, since shooting one of these down would give a few coveted resources.
  Such as Cryotic, Detonite Injectors, Fieldrons, Mutagen Samples or a large amount of Orokin Cells. Steel Essence is guranteed if on Steel Path.

Like I said, a plethora of ideas can exist. These are just examples on what can be done.
All of these just take existing enemies, add some bits onto them and gives them a rare- but noteworthy- presence.

Am I asking for precisely these enemies?
No. Not even close.
I don't work at DE, much less do professional-level coding.
I know how code works in a moderate sense, but I do know enough to see this being a possibility.

Am I asking for DE to try new and interesting enemies in existing overall content?
So long as they're not overused, yes.
The goal is to make something that pushes a Tenno's tactics rather than firepower.
New enemies are the biggest way to do that, which fits perfectly in a mode designed... to push them to try harder.
^{(It's as I always say: "Anybody can shove some numbers into an object or entity. What's really impressive is how you use it to make a cool show out of it!")}

It's safe to say you can only go so many years with a set of enemies before it starts showing it's mossy age, so to speak.

[Furgrim]

I really like idea for maniacs. Nightwatch enemies are so criminally unused. Speed is what makes them interesting. And if DE can't make AI challenging and interesting to fight - them make them fast instead of  just turning them into bullet sponges (well, bullets sponges until players get their mittens on powercreep arsenal) might help.
I thought a lot about it myself. Like, how come we now have Narmer faction - but not really using it? Projectile weapons, special abilities, combined roster a-la corrupted, some special units - all good stuff. Add to them speed buff, maybe make Veiled variants of Index and Arena enemies as mini-bosses/sergeants (Executioner Garesh especially) to spice it more. And maybe replace Acolytes/add to pool of Acolytes the Spectralysts (or whatever the doppelganger ammalgam sentient called), as they are far more interesting to fight. It might not change much but at least it will be something different from starchart.

I find Steel Path modifiers ridiculous and sad. Buffed health bars and damage for sake of big numbers, increased densities and reduced airsupport - its just bad and boring and serves as nothing but a gearcheck and mandatory AoE fiesta. Do you have Bramma/Shroomgun? Or can your frame cheese? ..can you atleast build monke? Congratulations, you have beaten the Steel Path, Teshin is proud of you.

If the game can't have a balance check - at least just give something new to soot at.

[Binket_]

8 hours ago, Furgrim said:

Speed is what makes them interesting.

Not just speed alone, but what the enemy is.

Maniacs are fast, but they often pause when they land somewhere.
Making it so they're quick to evade your shots, but not impossible to shoot down.

It's important to remember that AI mechanics are often more than just raw stats.
That's how we get situations like Steel Path to begin with.

8 hours ago, Furgrim said:

Like, how come we now have Narmer faction - but not really using it

Narmer itself is just a baffling concept to me. "Corrupted 2.0" is not exactly revolutionary.

... still, there is some creativity that can be harnessed from such constraints.
Not everything has to be built from the ground up after all.
Ultimately, we'll see.

8 hours ago, Furgrim said:

maybe make Veiled variants of Index and Arena enemies as mini-bosses/sergeants (Executioner Garesh especially) to spice it more.

Better idea, why not have Acolyte spawns sometimes be replaced with Arena Enemies?

They're certainly capable of bringing their own firepower to the table.
In fact, Vay Molta for instance is certainly creative enough on her own to be a notable enemy with very few changes.
Lockjaw & Sol from the Index is also quite formidable. Auditor can also prove a decent barricade.

This would freshen up spawns-- adding special encounters to respective faction-occupied zones.
Kela De Thaym or Sargus Ruk sends Executioners.
Nef Anyo can send Anyo Corp Brokers.
And so forth.

8 hours ago, Furgrim said:

I find Steel Path modifiers ridiculous and sad

As do we all.
I remember distinctly needing to take a long break from the game when it came out.
Not because it was difficult... rather the opposite. They only improved stats.

Everyone wanted something new. Something exciting, fresh-- anything!!
Instead, what we got was... more numbers.

I'm going to blunt DE.
More numbers means jack all.

I ran Valkyr in a Mot Survival once upon a time for 3 hours before dying by own hubris. ^{I tried being fancy and paid for it. Understandable, really.}
This was before Shield-gating, mind you. A single bullet guarantees death.
We did not have Gloom, Helminth was not a thing.
We did not have the Parazon, no Hard Reset to fix your companion.
Vulpaphylas were not a thing and I was not going to res my Kavat constantly.
I was alone in that endeavor. Fueled by sheer boredom.

Numbers. Mean. Nothing.
Zero. None. Absolute null.

Steel Path is a joke. A cruel joke with no punchline.
The only punch involved is to the metaphorical groin. 
Punishment that we actually expected something more.
Is it any wonder why I took a break?
I only came back when I ran out of things to do elsewhere.

[(XBOX)Rez090]

11 hours ago, Furgrim said:

 maniacs

 

1 hour ago, Binket_ said:

Maniacs

need to correct your spelling, manics is the correct word

[Binket_]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Rez090 said:

need to correct your spelling, manics is the correct word

Ah, typo.
Happens to the best of us.

[Sensacion]

I really like this comment ! Great Ideas.

[thetdw2000]

On 2023-03-22 at 9:24 AM, Binket_ said:

As it stands? The current enemy selection is... bland.
For the normal Starchart? These work just fine as a "not quite skilled yet" set of enemies to fight.
They're predictable and their weapons are usually pretty standard.
The occasional planet-specific variant throws enough interest to keep things fresh.

That however does not hold enough merit for Steel Path.
By the time you've reached Steel Path? You've already seen every boss, every enemy, every eximus-- increasing their stats will not make them "interesting" on their own.
If anything, it only serves to further highlight the stronger variants. As a mild threat compared to a niche target.

An easy way to address this is simply creating or using newer variants.
You can easily do this with existing ideas. Most of which can use already-existing code.

Keep in mind, this only works if it's limited to Steel Path.
This is all assuming the player has reached a point where these enemies can be handled effectively.
These aren't the kind that spawn all the time. A tad bit rarer than Eximus enemies for an idea on spawn rate.
"Lethal, but not common enough to completely overrun you" is the mindset here.

• Manic Bombards, the same kind that can appear on Uranus. Very little edits- if any- required.
  I've personally had times where I've seen these outside of Steel Path and they genuinely caught me off guard.
  It's a shame they die so quickly because I kinda wished to fight them a bit longer.
• Manic Heavy Gunners that are agile and ruthless. Similar concept to the Manic Bombards.
  Using dashes to move out of harm's way frequently. 
  They're less focused on evasion compared to their sibling variant and intended to be more aggressive.
• Nitro Napalms have a heavy tank on their back, of which greatly vulnerable to puncture damage.
  Charges to fire a powerful napalm rocket that covers a wide area in rampant flames, similar to ones used by the Saturn Six Fugitives.
  Also wields an augmented Ignis when not charging their "Nitro-Rocket", longer range but a smaller area hit.
  If you can shoot the tank- puncture damage dealing more- while they're charging, you can cause it to explode and damage nearby enemies.
  This is a strong enemy that rewards the gambit to take it out quickly, but punishes if you fail.
• Enhanced Scrambus variants, with dual-disruption auras to use and further modified weaponry to improve lethality.
  These are already pretty interesting enemies due to their modular loadout.
  A much rarer, but tougher one that uses it's ease of mobility more effectively can prove an interesting target to take down.
• Raknoid Ambushers that will often crawl upon walls or ceilings to strike a Tenno by surprise.
  It's common knowledge that players don't look up. This can be used for interesting gimmicks!
  Having small scuttling sounds and sparking particles alert to their position also makes them more fair in the process. 
  As when they jump down, alert players will have a cue that it's around somewhere. Readied weapons in hand.
• Mutalist Anti-MOAs that appear bulkier and visibly tougher. Showing just how ravenous the Infested can be.
  Launching spike harpoons that embed into the terrain.
  Approaching players to them will find it lash out and grapple onto them.
  As it's dragging them in it starts priming a sludge blast that- once detonated- afflicts high damage with either a Corrosive or Viral status being applied.
  Harpoons can be destroyed by weapon fire, of course.
• Undying Flyers which are old Grineer Hellions that have been overrun by Infested, which use their jets to ram the player.
  Some improvements can be made so they can also launch some toxin orbs in their wake.
  They already exist for the most part, just used in one specific Deimos mission for like... a fraction of it's length.
  ^{(Out of all of the factions, you'd think DE would capitalize on the unused Infested the most...)}
• Zealot Proselytizer, Zealot Herald and Zealot Baptizer, all of whom are devoted servants to Arlo who succumbed to the Infested.
  Armed with various weaponry and the ability to provide cover for other Zealots in action, they'll provide an interesting ranged alternative for the Infested to use.
  If left unchecked, they can turn into a much larger problem to deal with. Infested are known to be extremely easy targets since they're strictly melee for the most part.
  Having some with not only ranged options, but impressive support skills makes them high priority for a player to find.
  ^{(Though, again DE. These are hardly used as is. I cannot stress how much fun it would be to fight these guys again in Steel Path missions where they might pose a decent threat, since the room isn't being nuked as hard for once.)}
• While we're at it, let's consider a non-combative type of enemy... something like a Fleetfoot Hoarder.
  (This one can be found outside of Steel Path, but will generally be found more often in said mode than normal.)
  A thief found in lockers occasionally that flees upon being found. Moving erratically and swiftly, but never attacking directly.
  They will vanish similar to the Treasurer enemy, but with a much faster teleport period.
  Conceptually made to reward players for checking extra areas, since shooting one of these down would give a few coveted resources.
  Such as Cryotic, Detonite Injectors, Fieldrons, Mutagen Samples or a large amount of Orokin Cells. Steel Essence is guranteed if on Steel Path.

Like I said, a plethora of ideas can exist. These are just examples on what can be done.
All of these just take existing enemies, add some bits onto them and gives them a rare- but noteworthy- presence.

Am I asking for precisely these enemies?
No. Not even close.
I don't work at DE, much less do professional-level coding.
I know how code works in a moderate sense, but I do know enough to see this being a possibility.

Am I asking for DE to try new and interesting enemies in existing overall content?
So long as they're not overused, yes.
The goal is to make something that pushes a Tenno's tactics rather than firepower.
New enemies are the biggest way to do that, which fits perfectly in a mode designed... to push them to try harder.
^{(It's as I always say: "Anybody can shove some numbers into an object or entity. What's really impressive is how you use it to make a cool show out of it!")}

It's safe to say you can only go so many years with a set of enemies before it starts showing it's mossy age, so to speak.

Being a DRG fan I agree with many of these ideas (especially the not-huuli hoarder) but the problem with most of these ideas is that you will either

• Use meta loadouts to bypass them by oneshotting them (while their health will be too high for most damage sources to deal with them), OR
• Have to deal with damage attenuation cancer

So I second these suggestions with the caveat that DE balances the game.