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So with the recent announcement of Kuva Sobek, I once again bump this topic up because of Acid Shells having a relevant augment to it. I'm guessing it's already on the minds of the devs, but hey-- worth doubling down, yeah?

I have always viewed it less as "challenge" and more of a desperate attempt to strongarm players out of using the stock-standard stuff they've been using for months on end. Yes, [META-OF-THE-WEEK] Warframe/Weapon is suuuuuper comfy to a lot of players and their one total finger to use at any given time... ... but it's also an obnoxious hell to make any sort of meaningful content with that in mind without making it focus strictly on that. If you made content that was focused to counter things like Revenant or Dante? You effectively have to make something so ungodly strong that it makes everything that's already struggling to be relevant... even more irrelevant. ... or you force players to adapt to something new, since they cannot be trusted to do it on their own. Is it really "challenge"? No. To anybody with a functioning brain and half the motor functions of a potted plant? This game is a joke for difficulty. No matter what gear they use. There is no challenge to find in 99% of the game. Yes, that includes Level Cap content because shutting down Enemy AI reduces all damage taken to a fat 0. Which can be done in a plethora of ways. However, does it force the player to work in new conditions? Yes. That's the key here. So when I look at your two other points? I'll say: Decrees function as a sort of "Hey, here's something to ensure this low-tier gear won't force you to fail. Here's something to work with." Which is why I feel that the randomizer restriction does feel a bit obstructive, but not for the reason everyone is screaming about. Both could easily be turned into the most boring chore this side of the Origin System if you brought something like Wukong to it. We all know he's powerful, blah blah blah. ... but it's because the game keeps trying to force you to think, that's what makes it difficult. It's really apparent that Warframe Players HATE thinking. The moment you try to get to change their strategy, they lose their minds. It's been an enabled problem for a good while now and stifles creative gameplay (be it a dev's design or a passionate player's skill), but it needs to be curbed sooner than later. This is that sooner. Hell, I recently read a little fanmade story written I was recommended to read that wasfrom the view of a Corpus Crewman. Lemme tell ya, really elaborates how much of a mindless horror we are to them. Granted, I WILL say that certain modifiers in Deep Archimedea do suck-- regardless of what you get as a choice. These usually involve ones like "-75% Duration" as it's -75% off your modded total, not lowered like how Transient Fortitude would. This makes a LOT of Warframes very poor choices or just unusable outright. Such as Gyre, Banshee, Trinity, Vauban, Protea, Nyx-- a large majority of the roster. With the randomizers stifling your choices? These kinds of modifiers make it very difficult to warrant them as viable let alone fun. The easiest solution to- for instance, the negative duration modifier- would be to take another look at how they interact with the entire roster and their chances of leaving a player without options. I understand why people don't like it. I also understand why this system exists to begin with. It's far from a perfect system... but when you have to build for Warframe players? Far from perfect is the best miracle they could perform at this point. When the community stops crying that the newest killstick got a little scrape on it because it was (very obviously) too powerful? THAT's when we'll get something worth a damn here. We can't make anything good if people can't see the good. (People STILL think Yareli sucks, despite the numerous buffs making her actually REALLY good.) Until that time, we'll be stuck with whatever lab experiments DE has to cook up to avoid review bombs from lazy rejects forgetting they have a jump button.

Wanna know some extra bits I can add here? Base Limbo now takes literal minutes to craft. Not an hour, not 10 minutes-- literally 1 minute per part. Including the Warframe itself. It's practically instant, they did this because of the quest progression and whatnot. ... but that also raises the question of "Why can't they do this for... oh, I don't know-- Titania, Mirage, etc." It's not like they're integral to progression. You just get them as you progress, much like Limbo. Hell, Limbo even lets you skip the parts if you so wish. If you're so inclined? There's also Syndicate Standing I want to bring up. Why is this a thing still? Why are we time-gated out of content that I can easily cheese? Outside of the 6 Relay Syndicates (and arguable even than) and the Ostrons? We have ways of stockpiling extreme amounts of resources to quickly level it. Here's a list in a drop-down. Mainly to reduce clutter. I don't disagree with being able to carry extra currency that carries over... but more to say "What's the point?" Genuinely, what is the point of forcing me to carry all these various nickels and dimes of various cultures? When it just devolves into me logging in, cashing them in and than logging out-- what does this system do for anyone? It doesn't retain "player time" as far as I'm aware, all it does is get me to log in the next day with a furled eyebrow and a frown. That doesn't make people want to play the game, it makes people want to go: "Oops, I intentionally accidentally forgot to log in and dump all my excess macguffins. Oh well, who's really caring at the end of the day?" If the arbitrary flux of information isn't enough to annoy newer players out of the game? Limiting things like these will. It feels like a kick in the shin. "Oh, you're all done? Cool, now let's watch paint dry." Especially hurtful when you put a price tag to rush it. It's not exactly forcing you to, but the fact you can isn't exactly friendly either. ... but we all know people will do it, so that's why you keep it around. You're not a new company anymore DE, you have items to sell of some nice quality. Prime Access exists (and is relatively accepted by the community) for a reason. Tennogen's quirks are understandable considering what you had to work with in legality. Hell, you could probably make more weapon skins and such-- people would likely buy those no problem. It's an old system that has lost it's novelty with age. Kept here only by the notion of grubby money. A change of pace is certainly welcome by now, since you have funded the supports that keep this game up long ago.

There a handful of weapons that have certain functions that often fall short simply because of how Line of Sight is treated on them. Namely, the biggest one that I'm thinking of is Vulcan Blitz. Refresher from the Wiki in case anybody needs it: https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Vulcan_Blitz It's a meager 6m Radius AoE that happens when you kill an enemy using Jat Kittag. It's a hammer with a number of skins specifically for it. (In case you're looking to make more sales, DE. *Nudge nudge*) The problem with it is that has far too many restrictions with that AoE to make it worth using. Namely that... It has a 100% falloff, meaning even at a 3m distance? It will only be doing 50% of the damage it could be doing. It has hard line-of-sight, something that plagues some Warframe abilities as is. Though this has been recently looked at, so it could extend to this. As it stands now? Even enemies blocked by another body will be enough to mitigate the effect. It gains zero benefit from any damage source besides Faction Damage (be it Mods or the Roar Ability), meaning the damage is rather small as is. Especially considering Armor, Shields and other defenses exist. It often makes it do very little in comparasion. It has major competition even in the department of other hammers. In fact, it's the lowest damage of all hammers. Tied with base Fragor. Since weapons like Arca Titron, Rabvee Zaws, Sampotes, Sibear and more all exist with far more usable and damaging AoEs? That's already pretty sad... These four issues combine to make Vulcan Blitz feel extremely disappointing, even for those who enjoy it anyway. Especially considering Acid Shells for the Sobek doesn't have as much an issue using this similar tactic. This is because of it's big range (15m) to make up for it's falloff penalty. In addition, it being a hitscan shotgun means it makes use of headshots very well. Point is, there are a few weapons that may appreciate having a quick look at these issues. If the mods deem this more fit as a "bug report" (as it does feel unintentional), by all means move it there. I just assume this is/was already known by the devs in charge of these fixes so I put it under feedback.

Oh, I'm well aware of Whips. Like I said, the list I gave had more I could list. They do share kinda the same problem with their cousin category "Blade&Whip" which is a lot of their attacks feel like they're aiming in weird directions. Ehhhh... disagree. They're a lot more usable than people give them credit for, though a lot of them are VERY slow. That's to be expected with hammers though, y'know? Crushing Ruin if you wanna be quick about it, Shattering Storm if you're feeling spicy. You are so wrong that I am going to right you so hard, it'll become a left. Rending Crane is an amazing stance, clean powerful strikes with a touch of mobility sprinkled in. Cleaving Whirlwind is a very mobile stance, even outside of the spin. (Which is easy to work out of.) Tempo Royale is like a mix of both, flashy movements and heavy strikes. This is the one I used for most of the Starchart with a Galatine in my old days! Honestly, I'd argue you'd need to adjust certain Heavy Blades like the Scindo, Galatine, Sarofang, Masseter, etc. that kinda just... exist. They're some of the best stances... but I guess since people just love maximizing Attack Speed and than dumping all common sense with Auto-Melee? Call me old-fashioned, but I like controlling my Melees and not have my Melee control me. I'm the kinda player to actually go for a moderate Attack Speed and position myself for clean strikes. Stances I use often feel garbage if they're failing to hit targets or simply just want to be in awkward positions. Namely Gunblade and Whip/Blade&Whip stances come to mind with that. Protip: Sliding just after you input a Melee Attack will propel you in whatever direction you're holding during the attack. It's especially apparent if you mods like Cunning Drift or Maglev that boost sliding momentum. You can do this forward to get more of a dash, backwards to back-pedal and left or right to fine tune movement! While this isn't a Melee-Specific thing, it's quite useful on them! I learned this by using Nyx's Assimilate for a long time with the Dispensary subsume on. Apparently that enables Nyx to slide, so I learned how to make use of that technique! It applies to so much of the game (even Duviri!), it always feels weird whenever I can't.

A lot of weapons have really good stats and even better gimmicks that give them identity. ... but are also held back by certain stances. Heavy Nikanas are one of those, but I feel another part of the issue is that they have a massive Forced Slash proc on their Heavy Attacks. Since Stances don't modify Heavy Attacks, a lot of people haven't seen the need to do that... and likewise, DE doesn't see a reason to. Tatsu (Prime) and Tenet Liva I would find get the best benefit from this, seeing as their perks aren't exactly tied to Heavy Attacks. Azothane is a middling one. It's weird block function is rather odd. It didn't even get it's unique function buffed with the slam changes, since DE decided "Nah, screw those ones in particular." Pennant is strictly Heavy Attack and would get little use out of it I feel. As far as DE is concerned, buffing only 3 weapons that people use for specific functions isn't worth it. It's why the Ghoulsaw is bad as it is. It's a single weapon with extremely poor stats... but because it's stance is bad too, it'd take way too much effort to salvage it. That being said, it would be nice to have. There are other weapons that would probably benefit from such a revision too. Such as, but not limited to... Gunblades, since both of their stances have a lot of attacks that mix both Melee and Shots? It ends up feeling extremely clunky. Simply making the block combos do shots and the non-block do Melee shots (or vice versa) would add a lot more technical usage to it! This isn't directly a stat buff either, decluttering the stances allows the player to make their own styles on how to use it! Blade&Whips, since most the attacks are very specific on where they want to hit. The sheer wild amount of positioning needed makes it very difficult to use precisely. Especially the "Grapple" functions, which are quite weak in the long run. Heavy Scythes, which have the same level of usage as you would expect IRL. Extremely clunky. Which would sense if this was a combat sim and not "Freddy's ICBM Pawn Shop: The Game." Twin Nikanas. Honestly this entire category can just be Dual Swords. Same with Dual Daggers, but to a lesser extent. As a bonus? Every Stance that has multiple of the same combo on different inputs. LOOKING AT YOU, SHIMMERING BLIGHT. https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Shimmering_Blight Anyway, there's a lot to it-- but I think it's reasonable to ask.

No, dude literally said "Nah, this is too broken. I'm out" and turned their stream off. Wasn't even a joke. Let me make this clear: You do not want the OG version back, you just want to be brainless. Nerf or no nerf, you'd play him for a week (or less) and get bored. Going back to whatever TikTok videos (or alternatives) are trending this time. I am going to stop talking to you. Simply because there is nothing left to it. Play Warframe, don't play Warframe. I don't care.

I was literally just watching someone get so bored with Dante in Steel Path that they cut off their stream early. Quite literally a "I am so demotivated with boredom" kinda thing. Should I suggest dodging? Just a jump or two? Use those legs, you got two of 'em for a reason! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pbc3whtZrnA May I suggest a video of a similar caliber? I think it's comical that this bug could happen and create some true clownery. ... but I also realize it's a bug and it was bound to get fixed. I think it's best to learn from them, even if you couldn't experience. It helps shapes understanding of future mistakes. On one hand, I get that. I'm equally as frustrated and demotivated seeing people like this, I've been around for a long while too. ... but on the other hand? Most of my frustration stems from the players refusing to acknowledge that things work a certain way for certain reasons. It drives me nuts especially because the information IS out there. No problem! I just hope you get some new builds to try out or get some inspiration to make your own. Heard about some involving Phage lately, so I'm gonna see what I can do with that. As far as I'm aware, that playstyle hasn't exactly changed. So... if it's strictly the stats holding him back, what is the functional difference? That's the thing, LoS doesn't change Tragedy. You just need to angle yourself right, someone with 3k hours should easily manage that. Overguard is nothing neccessary for Dante. You (should) and I both know that Shields are plenty enough if push comes to shove. Pageflight, Wordwarden, Noctua and the usage of Dark/Light Verse is effectively unchanged. ... from what I'm getting here, there is nothing here that affects you. You are mad for reasons you cannot comprehend. After checking your profile? You only got 2k hours, so unless you got more hidden somewhere else? I'm inclined to believe you're flubbing some details. Honestly, while I'd like that for most Warframes? It hurts ones like Kullervo the most. To be honest though, I figure at this point? Just making Overguard take damage from more sources would be fine. Than make Kullervo just have zero Shield Regen, while Recompense bolsters his (now available) Shields. The whole issue to begin with was that DE added a fourth Health Type. When Health, Armor and Shields was already stupid hard for them to balance as is... ... suddenly having the idea "We should have a fourth" like a dysfunctional family is a great idea? Shocker that it doesn't pan out. Well, we're here now. Gotta sort it out...

Judging by the fact that the reply you quoted seems to be in Russian when I'm typing in English? I'll assume not you, because your translator broke. Besides, this isn't TikTok. It's the FORUMS. A place where you're going to see text explaining why things break. Than again, I can see why people instantly raise their pitchforks. God forbid they take up basic literacy!~ I think his OG was overtuned to lunacy. He still does lots of damage, no matter if it's a Line-of-Sight nerf or whatever else. I play pretty exclusively Steel Path because everything else gets boring for me. If you lump "initial levels" in with Steel Path, DE themselves have said that "Level Cap isn't the metric they wanna design the game for". It's a byproduct of tons of morons demanding more and more power until Level Cap became a joke. Only so much DE can do there. If you stand completely still in a room with Level 300+ enemies? Yes, you'll die quickly. That can be said for pretty much every Warframe. The only ones that can are ones like Octavia and Revenant. One who get extremely bad reps BECAUSE of that. Add some basic movement though and-- WOW. His survivability skyrockets because he's not soaking every bullet on the map! It's almost like there's a reason standing completely still and/or directly in enemy fire is a stupid idea! Manually choosing to ignore the rest. ... and I'm going to assume it's most the Mobile players too. The ones who are likely coming from games with a much more "Pay to Win" mindset. Mobile Players- with their time with Gacha and Extreme FOMO tactics- have such a loose wallet because they expect their purchases to win every time. So when a Warframe comes out that utterly demolishes balance? That's NORMAL for them. When they see a 80$ Price Tag? That's CHEAP for them. If you say they need to put in some actual effort to understand the game? They'll go into a feral rage and deny it all. Thanks DE, I warned everyone this was gonna happen! Oh well, I hope the extra """Credit Caches""" (Mobile Players) were worth it! I have to ask, mainly out of morbid curiosity: What exactly does Dante give that no other Warframe can for ya? Because from the way I see you describing it, it's entirely possible to just like... play Ember for functionally the same kit. I'd argue it's more that Warframe itself has no competition coming anywhere close to it. You got ULTRAKILL, maybe-- but that's a singleplayer game. That would only fit a niche of the audience... and even than, it's not inherently as updated as a live service game. Than you have Duet Night Abyss on the horizon, but that might not better. It looks promising, but it also looks like it'll have some flaws. I originally dropped the game to play PSO2, but SEGA killed that off faster than I'd like to admit. I feel DE is- unfortunately- governed by the fact that their game is a god damn miracle to exist. ... which is also why a lot of Warframe players would be FURIOUS if it goes to some unbalanced, unhinged direction. So I get your anger, but it's really a difficult game to match. That being said, if all else? I REALLY hope Duet Night Abyss gives DE something they have to contest against if all else. A lot of players wanted Dante to be toned down. His Overguard made the game way too easy for most and ruined any kind of fun they can have. Tragedy having Line-of-Sight is probably one of the least dangerous nerfs they could've given him. Especially if they iron out the problems with it. Granted, if you want to blame DE for not hearing the basic obvious things? They're certainly to blame for that. Reb's own response outright was "Lmao, we won't" to Auto-Melee getting a toggle. Something I've been wanting for a good while now. ... and before anyone gets any stupid ideas? No, I want it because it's bugged on me a number of times making missions unplayable. Precision is just the extra reason. Buddy, the Heirloom pack exists. That notion went out the window looooong before that even. Reducing it's damage was my initial thought, but after I saw the Line-of-Sight nerf? I figured that would be better IF they properly implemented it. While they didn't, I was surprised that they caught on that it was broken as quickly as they did. The problem with the LoS as it stands? It's not accounting for enemies behind other enemies, much like Vulcan Blitz or Fire Blast. Both of which could greatly benefit a change in that regard. ... but LoS isn't a true issue, in fact-- it's kinda like that "range" nerf you mentioned. You have to line yourself up and POSITION yourself in a spot to the maximum amount of targets. This isn't anything new. If you just reduce the range? You just neuter it more for those who could already use it well. A bad system can be detrimental, but removing something that can be reclaimed is far worse. Do I have to point to the sign? PvE games can use balance just as much as PvP games. Players cannot be trusted to handle themselves when it comes to balancing. ... also, you say Excal can't match Saryn or Mesa? I could not only outplay them using Excal-- but do it in style. Limbo is a different case, he can easily hit damage cap numbers... but you to know how he does so. If you were to say something Banshee? Maybe, but I also know Banshee is lagging behind. Say what ya will about DE, they are not immune to doing incredibly stupid things. Every game- no matter what it is- can use balancing. Even purely singleplayer games that have further updates planned can use balancing. A balanced game plays a lot more fun than an unbalanced one, because usually if it's intentionally unbalanced? It's accounted for and integrated in some way. It's like if you played Final Fantasy and "God Slaying Slash" in the first dungeon. Obviously every part of the game would become a joke if you can just instantly obliterate everything. Warframe isn't Final Fantasy, sure-- but it's more than just killing hordes of fodder enemies. "Mindless slaughter" can still have some form of balance, look at Dynasty Warriors (or similar games) and you'll see what I mean. Here's some Fire Emblem: Three Hopes footage as an example: https://youtu.be/K1TpOsf4Iv0?si=3TbosCALg-gIL6dH&t=342 Wukong and Titania may be fast, but a player good at parkour can often be just as fast. With as much Overguard as that? Yes, actually. I'd argue that since it can't be easily dispelled, unlike Mesmer Skin. That and it's a very easy ability to cast and affects the entire squad. Even pets and NPCs like Arbitration Defense Targets. Tragedy. If that's not enough for you, a single Second Encumber primer will be. Level cap is a metric DE has said before that don't like using. Neither do I either since anything that completely shuts enemy AI like Octavia will survive ANY content. Even still, I don't know how you'd "nerf" Octavia without making her 100% irrelevant. She's an odd case that I'd argue is the ONLY Warframe that needs a full "rework", replacing every ability of hers. ... Dante's Support is just as big- if not bigger- than both of them. Status Immunity+Durability with Overguard in just one buff and even Energy Orbs/Fire Rate with Noctua. Wisp provides a Fire Rate buff and Health Regen, but that's about it for "support". Hardly useful considering we have Shields. Citrine can give Boosted Status Chance, Damage Resistance and Health Regen... but the latter two rarely help with Overguard in play. Status Chance can even be boosted by the Paragrimms, even boosting Status Damage in the process. Outdoing Citrine as a result. To be fair, Nova isn't exactly the peak of "Crowd Control". Even if he doesn't come close in some departments, he's certainly excelling in MULTIPLE departments. Warframe was also a wildly different game back than. Polar opposite if I may be so inclined. You could afford such leaps and bounds of power to integrate a mechanic like that back than. ... but it was also because it provided the basis for a form of parkour that is wildly loved to this day. (Well, maybe less with certain players roaming around. Eugh.) It's not because it was an exploit that it was implemented, it was because such a mechanic could be vastly expanded upon. Making gameplay fresh. Granted, I'll agree that DE isn't the same company as back than. I look at things like Channeling and question why it was removed without properly making it work. Originally, that function was supposed to be the early-forms of a "Special Attack Gauge" you see in most games. DE called it a "rage mode", but you get the idea. ... and than they just... axed it. I believe they axed it because everybody mocked it. They said "It was useless" and "Nobody would miss it" because of it's extreme energy costs. Yet nobody realized it was ACTUALLY because we had no mods to elaborate on that system with, very few Melees actually used the system at all. Kinda wanna smack a younger me upside the head for doubting it if I ever did, I'll admit. I didn't fully understand what it was at the time and never knew what it could become. Thankfully, I have knowledge of how the game works now and I do think it would've been far greater if they kept it. Wanna hear a fun fact? We have those other options because y'all wont let those go either. Seriously, at this point it's less "We have Revenant, so it's fine!" and more "Oh, it's ANOTHER one to the pile." When they try to nerf Wukong or Revenant? People throw a hissy fit like they are now. The core difference between people who nerfs vs. the endless gluttony of "buff only" players is that the former are looking long-term. I'd argue it's not much different from any other "Echoes" update. A lot of people said the same thing for a lot of updates prior. They often don't mean it though, because a lot of players haven't exactly bothered or have been around for those updates. While I really enjoy Deep Archimedia? (mainly because it's the first mode in a loooooong time that has actually made me gauge danger in a mision) It's only one part of this update, the rest is kinda.... eh? We got Dante, who was overtuned to hell on his release. Otherwise mildly interesting kit if you ignore the stats outright. We got Sanctum Disruption and Omnia Fissures... but nothing we haven't seen before. We got some new augments, which are nice-- but nothing to focus on with an update. ... and I genuinely can't remember much else without looking, which probably goes to show it's relevancy. I don't know what people see in Dante that requires them to be so vehemently defensive about it. It's honestly kinda concerning, because it feels like another Styanax situation. DE """"""nerfs"""""" on tiny aspect of a Warframe and suddenly the entire community grabs pitchforks. God forbid we have something get balanced around here, folks. No, it was because people don't like some schmuck entering the squad and wedging a crowbar into an invincibility cheat code, forcing it on permanently. Just because other players suck doesn't the rest have to be dragged down. Usually is the ideal anyway. Dante is perfectly playable still. Hell, I'd argue you could subsume his 2 off and still survive Steel Path plenty fine. Shields are a thing, you know. There are people who have jump-kicked their way through the entire Star Chart. There are people who have cleared Warframe without jumping once. There are people who have taken Dragon Keys into Steel Path and clear without abilities. There are people who actively sit down and run Steel Path Level Cap for literal days on end. (Often using things like Mag. You can Mag at the start of the damn game, buddy.) You could use Dante on Steel Path and be just fine. No skill needed. We DO NOT need players shoveling Overguard onto us. Hey, DE? One bit of feedback, don't refund this fella. Instead, just lock 'em to Dante. Show 'em that he's still perfectly viable. Obviously, I'm being facetious here... but hot damn do these people feel like they deserve no refunds. As for LoS? It's a way to limit the ability without needing to nerf it's stats outright. Position yourself once in a blue moon. If you die, you die. It's Warframe, you'll live. Also, there's a certain market strategy called "looking into it". I'd say "look into it", but that'd be paradoxical! So I'll just pretend you get it, since there's no helping ya. ... I mean, they didn't really "listen". They gave their usual schtick of "Oh, don't worry guys. We understand." They won't do it again, if they do? It'll be under a different name or a slightly different ruse. This isn't the first time, nor is it the last. Granted, the same thing was being done with Wukong's clone needing ammo. (Which is barely a nerf imo) THAT one had a lot of people (like me) calling out people demanding reverts. All while saying: "What the hell are you asking for? Your insatiable lust for power got you this, yet you have the audacity to ask for more?!" While I do understand your questioning with this, it's more along the lines of "Health being damaged just isn't a thing you can do anymore. Shields are more likely to be putting the player in a danger state." so it fits the mod more now. ... but yeah, it's hard to make use of that when you have to burn through 50k Overguard that's refusing to go down. I feel this is one of those situations where DE really can't do much about it because of how demand constant buffs. Honestly, could you imagine an enemy had access to the same tools we do? I can't, not even with Spectralysts copying our sets and abilities because DE manually restricted what they can use. https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Spectralyst in case you never seen one. Point is, we're so overpowered as is. The reason enemies need to be "nuked" at all is because none of them stand even a mote of a chance. We've gone unchecked, to the point where the biggest enemy is ourselves. A bit of irony there, huh?

That's fair, I suppose. My viewpoint is more the long-term result of things, so I often have to look at a large amount of factors-- including ones not usually seen at the moment. When it comes to the Heirloom Pack? That had a lot of things that would cause problems or be potential omens. "What if DE starts making this a regular thing? What if more Deluxe Skins start being marketed as limited-time things, it was bad enough with Supporter Packs but those were slightly more affordable." and so forth. When it comes to balancing? I look at how players use these tactics and what they provide, even further down the line. A month later; two months, year, 2 years, etc, etc. When DE has to make content involving- for example- Warframe 1999, what kinda meta are we using when that arrives? What will change? I often try to envision a game where players can feel strong, but actively do things to achieve that strength. The illusion of power is there, but they can lose if they're not careful. I have to admit though, a portion of this idea stems from having a LOT of experience in the game. I've been playing since the Pyrus Project and quite actively, so I remember a lot of the older mistakes DE makes quite well. I STILL REMEMBER THE STUPID MELEE CHANGES. Who thought unequipping both your guns to use your stances was a good idea?! Thank god they added a way to force it on even with guns. TLDR: "Fair, I guess. Though, the two do have their differences. It's best to remember why each one matters." This is also why you usually quote the specific part you want. It's also why I try to space my replies when they're to different people. So others recognize when it's relevant to them. Reading literacy is a superpower in 2024. I don't believe it was exactly subtle either. It doesn't take a genius to figure out why he was so powerful. That came from his extreme damage output and Overguard generation. For damage output? Line-of-Sight at least curbs the usual ease that is involved with it. If you want to make the most of it, you need to be in direct danger with as many targets as you can. They can see you and react, so there's a bit of a gamble there. One that is also within the player's control. However, the Line-of-Sight they initially used was the "hard" version, which checked everything-- not just terrain. So enemies could block each other, it's the same reason why Jat Kittag's "Vulcan Blitz" augment does a lot less than Sobek's "Acid Shells". Both augments have falloff, both have range associated with it, only Vulcan Blitz has that Line-of-Sight check that includes entity models. As for Overguard? It was generating too quickly, making it too easy to stockpile and ward off most attacks. Yes, it goes away easily-- but it's also way too easily applied. If this were Shields or Health? It wouldn't be as much of a big deal, those are already made in a way to be expendable. Overguard functions like Shields, but negating far more than what Shields would. If you're going to have Overguard? You need to have act like what it is. Bonus defenses. It has to be earned with diminishing returns or have some drawback. Much like how Health has no gating, but has Armor to protect you... or how Shields can be bypassed by Toxin? If you're going to stockpile thousands of Overguard? It needs to have some kinda weakness. I think initially lowering the value you get from each cast, but making it regenerate like Shields makes it frail-- but still good for negating Statuses. It rewards the player for managing their health well by giving them breathing, much like how Shields were designed. "Expendable, but extra layers." TLDR in case you can dodge books: "Overguard was a mistake to begin with, since it forgets what it's supposed to be. Extra, nothing else. If your Health types are like a pizza? Overguard is that overpriced sesame seed topping on the crust that's nice to have for texture, but you can live without it. Having a pizza practically coated with sesame seeds makes the texture wonky and weird, upsetting the carefully set balance of the doughy health and cheesy shields. Likewise, having too much Overguard makes the game boring since it makes a bunch of other things feel pointless and stupid. Limitations exist for a reason." While I'm not going to say "They never tested it" and they really should've seen that coming, the range was an issue for Nezha's augment. I'm not gonna lie, I saw it in a few missions with people using high range. There was NOTHING to shoot. Everything got lifted up and slammed back down instantly. It was a pretty boring experience because everything got done for me. It prevented me from engaging with the game. Like it or not, abilities this powerful are a problem. It's kinda excusable in low-level content due to the nature of "levelling" in any game. ... but when it starts happening on the "hard mode", Steel Path? That's no longer the "World 1" areas-- that's our endgame and it's becoming boring to run. This kinda change still keeps the intended use of it, the potency-- but now requires the user to be smart in using it by reducing the range. The sheer potency is still a thing. If the user wants more range at the expense of power? They can simply omit the augment. Otherwise, if they nerfed the strength of it? It would be yet another low-power "band-aid" augment to most eyes. It's a tradeoff. Many a cursed item in many a tale are simply just that, "tradeoffs"... if you can overcome the negative, the benefit becomes much better. Clever players create powerful sets for a reason. The base ability is still very useful too. Blazing Chakram duplicating itself to hit many targets is nothing to ignore. Especially since I'm fairly certain the "Damage Vulnerability" effect still applies to enemies, even if they have Overguard. (It just only starts taking effect after Overguard is depleted.) Maybe 50% is a bit much, but the lowered range is certainly needed. Especially since I can upwards of 45m prior to the penalty, I can still hit roughly 22m with the augment. More than enough room to make some havoc. TLDR because I'm on the bleeding edge: "Would you rather a fun take on an old power, giving it insane strength with a drawback... or just your generic slop of a band-aid? We've seen this song and dance all too often, it's when someone masters something new do we progress. The augment halving range adds a caveat for players to overcome, you want your power? Here's your conditions, the world is your lab." Saryn used to have the same issue that Octavia does now. You could often sit down and be bored because the game would play itself. Something along the lines of "Human need not apply". However, she's powerful because she does Corrosive Damage. Corrosive lowering enemy Armor- more important as levels increase- and being applied all over is one of the biggest ways to keep players doing more damage. She also has her own tools of varying use. Molt keeps the heat off her, Toxic Lash keeps in the fray and Miasma can work as a good finisher in the right hands. Saryn used to be really automated, but as enemies have gotten stronger? Her damage starts to fall off and she needs to put in more effort. She's always been strong, but the content finally caught up and made her balanced. Prior to that? She was overtuned, much like Dante. Mesa is a similar case, but for different reasons. Since her 4 did so much damage and didn't require much aim? Her kit was following the same problem that AoE weapons were causing. Way too much result for far too little effort. However, unlike Saryn? Her abilities outside of that are... meh at best. Shooting Gallery and Shatter Shield are useful, but they're not too interesting in practice. Her Ballistic Battery has some interesting uses, but the application of it's power tends to conflict with the way most make and use their weapons. ... but much like Saryn? Once content caught up and start fitting her better, she started to be seen less as an obnoxious pest and more balanced. Mesa hasn't changed much, but the game slowly did. That's not to say "well, just do that" because you ignore the issue entirely. Both of these are examples of extremely overtuned Warframes that were annoying for the longest time of sucking fun out of things. It was only until DE finally ramped up something to compensate for the sheer power creep were they made "okay" again. ... but what about Warframes like Loki or Banshee? They get left behind because they weren't built for content this tough. Yes, you could rework the lesser examples to do better-- but you must remember why we nerfed the strongest things to begin with. They were breaking the norm of what already worked. They demanded everything ELSE change to fit their needs. Nerfs exist to combat that, just like how buffs are used to keep things fresh. Both must be used in equal measure. Dante got nerfed before people got a little too comfortable with him. He's new, which means the "norm" he's to set can wildly change as new details emerge to the people in charge. Literally why "Field Data" is so valuable to the people making the guns for military departments. They don't do the direct fighting, so they can only speculate so much. Same idea here. A nerf was to prevent Nezha's Augment and Dante from getting out of control and becoming a much bigger problem to balance later. TLDR because we're all running out of time these days: "Sometimes we get a little too used to things being a problem until we forget why we had such a fuss in the first place. While it's good to forgive and forget, it's important to remember it anyway so we don't repeat it. Saryn and Mesa were obnoxiously broken for the longest time, they never got nerfed-- time just caught up. Dante is new, so his time is now. As we try to learn from past mistakes." Arguable in the sense of "nuking an entire room", there's only so much processing power and resources DE can employ to make content. There's only so much they can do with the engine before it starts hissing and pressuring itself, like a boiler about to burst. If a player can delete an entire room with ease, how do you get enough enemies (using limited resources) to make that happen in an enjoyable for 4 players. The answer is... not easily, certainly not in a simple manner either. So DE has to reduce to ease of making things nuked. Line-of-Sight is one of those ways and it works on paper quite well. The problem is that it's currently implemented poorly and doesn't work. HOWEVER, DE is aware that it's not working. Yes, they said they fixed it-- but DE is also known to do a lot of stupid things. (I've been here a while, I'd know.) As for your comparison of Ember and Saryn, that's another weird one. Saryn works completely differently, her kit slowly chips down enemies-- but they need to be within range of each other to spread that debuff once it finishes it's work. Ember on the other hand is more direct. Applying her damage to the enemy directly with the debuffs involving a "scorched earth" idea to ensure a result. You're referring to Ember's 3, which does have some weird quirks I will admit... but those quirks also go with that very same "Line-of-Sight" issue Dante has currently. Silver lining is that if they fix it for Dante? They fix it for Ember. Arguably, this should've been done ages ago. At least it's getting done now. Her 4 however is based on "where you're looking" and it's a LOT more reliable than people assume. Especially if you're good at parkour to position yourself for maximum effect. TLDR, because boomsticks are loud: "There's only so much space on a map and only so many things you can put on it before you fry your graphics card. Limitations are a thing, be it game balance or hardware. Line-of-Sight checks are merely flawed by their current implementation, not for what they're trying to do. You don't want to revert Dante's nerfs, you want Line-of-Sight to be better. Ask for that instead, because the problem often roots itself deeper." "I'm late, I'm late for a very important date!" - White Rabbit, Alice in Wonderland. That ultimately depends on how each apply their own powers. For instance, a good example is Revenant. Prior to a buff involving a stupid grace period between each used charge of Mesmer Skin? Revenant would likely use Enthrall to quickly spread itself and used Reave to restore his charges. Reave is an active ability that require the user to engage with it. Enthrall is a part of Reave's cycle. Mesmer Skin than fed into the cycle by having Enthrall a free cast. So you gained charges to keep it going. Unfortunately, when they introduced a Grace Period? They accidentally made the entire cycle redundant, since weapons could kill just as well as Reave on Enthralled targets. ... and by making the other two abilities less effective? Players were incentivized instead to just recast his 2 whenever they got low. While yes, you could make Revenant's Mesmer Skin unable to recast itself-- that doesn't solve the problem. It just nerfs the effective use of Mesmer Skin in the cycle. It doesn't encourage the player to do anything else. Instead, removing the grace period encourages the player to try and upkeep it using Reave. Dante is a similar idea. As I mentioned earlier here (first reply in your section), Overguard being too easy to apply made it overshadow Shields and Health. There's actually no reason for Dante to restore Health at all... because there's rarely a situation where that will ever come into play. Likewise, the "Regeneration" effect of Triumph was completely overkill because you would tons of it already by a single cast. Since you needed to cast Light Verse in some capacity for the other two buffs too... provided you're upkeeping the buffs even slightly? You're bound to have a stockpile of Overguard that never goes down. Plenty of Warframes can provide massive amounts of regeneration, yes. They're limited in how effective that an be however. Wisp's Reservoirs don't affect Shields, so enemies doing enough damage can still kill you. No matter how much regen you have. Hildryn's Haven requires that you're within her range, even still-- it taxes upon her shields. The more you take, the bigger the risk to her. Harrow's Covenant can provide temporary Invincibility to all within Affinity Range, but the buff after prevents it from being reactivated. So timing is crucial. Trinity's Blessing can max out Shields and Health in a single cast with a hefty 75% Damage Reduction, but it's only within Affinity Range and can be easily overcome. Well of Life and Blood Altar both require being within their field, something that may not be possible at all times. Frost and Styanax- despite giving Overguard as well- require targets to constantly upkeep it, along with using High Energy Cost abilities to do so. One could argue Dante needs this same energy cost, but his raw stats alone often makes building for such far easier. Styanax would have to spec into raw Ability Strength to not only have the Energy to upkeep it, but also other stats like Duration to make those effects last. In addition, Styanax is locked to Affinity Range. Dante is not, with Final Verse having a base range of 30m. You can buff Ability Range easily, Affinity Range however is far more difficult. Often requiring Gear Items lasting only 2 minutes. This would be acceptable if viewed in a vacuum (which could likely considering Dante would have been developed by multiple people), but he also has his other abilities. Such as Tragedy, with it's massive detonation akin to Expedite Suffering.... but with a larger multiplier and radial. Prior to Line-of-Sight, one could easily sit comfortably in a small closet with an Equinox or Saryn nearby. Using Dispensary to upkeep energy. Since both Equinox and Saryn would provide massive amounts of Slash or Toxin procs to make use of with little hassle? Dante could easily use his base 30m Range of Tragedy to nuke from a safe distance. As a result, changing it to Line-of-Sight requires Dante to at least be in open combat to take advantage of this. Engaging the player and keeping them active. Pageflight and Word Warden are both very useful buffs in their own ways. Often lasting for a good while. Pageflight itself also letting enemies target the Paragrimms is certainly another layer of defense, since they're both invincible and intangible. Intangibility even means it has a step up on things like Resonator, since it's not locked to terrain. Noctua itself is an incredibly powerful weapon, even among Exalteds. Innate slash, incredible Status and Critical stats. Topped with an Alt-Fire with infinite Body-Punch-Through and massive damage to make Tome Mods easy to activate. Vome Invocation can act as a direct damage buff, since Ability Strength affects an Exalted's Base Damage. Xata Invocation makes Energy a non-issue, making Efficiency mods less of a requirement. Both Ris Invocation and Netra Invocation can bolster this even further. With Duration and Efficiency respectively. Jahu Canticle gives Dante an Armor-Stripped option. Khra Canticle makes Dante function similar to Citrine's 1. Fass Canticle improves Fire Rate, giving a Fire Rate boost to everyone. Not just Noctua. ... and this is the ability most subsume over, due to it not being as needed in his cycle. When you look at this way? I don't think he's competing, I think he's clearly overpowering them. That- to me anyway- screams another layer of power creep that if left unchecked? Will simply add to the already vast gap of power between everything in Warframe. Remember, just because Banshee's abilities are old and less useful doesn't mean that's the only way Warframes become irrelevant. Nyx for instance can easily thrive in high-tier content, but she's clearly not as powerful as other options. Curbing power creep where we can is what matters here. Nobody wants to be forced to play a certain Warframe they don't like because content demands it. TLDR, at the expense of all detail: "Yes, Dante can absolutely kick the ass of every Warframe you just listed there. Looking at the both kinds of power on paper and in practice shows why. The nerfs they did were designed to keep Dante active, not lower his power. If a Warframe can automate content? It doesn't end up being fun, it ends up being used by RMT farmers that get people banned. Not fun at all. See also: Octavia. Screw Octavia!"

... in that case, every gun gets Infinite Punch-Through and does 2000% Puncture Damage if they look at an enemy funny. AoE Weapons get +20m of Blast Radius (regardless if it breaks the weapon, you all run Primed Sure-Footed anyway, right?) Melees now emit 10m shockwaves and slams uproot reality. Kullervo's Collective Curse is now a radial cast and does 3000 Slash Damage upon cast to everything within 90m. Gyre now causes enemies to get lifted like Aegis Storm with no falloff. Xaku just prevents Eximus from spawning and every enemy is now 1000% Slowed. They now move backwards, because logic need not apply. Khora now causes enemies to violently ragdoll, exploding into useless confetti. I could go on and on about stupid nonsensical things... but where to improvise from it literally atomizes the map? There are limits for a reason. BREAKING those limits in a creative, nuanced way that is difficult to pull off is what makes big numbers impressive. Once upon a time, hitting a million damage was genuinely difficult. Let alone 500k. Now we do it accidentally. TLDR, because eyes are for eating: "Than just buff everything to absurdity. Go full TF2 x100 Weapons on it, see how long that'll last. Spoiler, it won't. It'll fundamentally break at the seams because the game wasn't built for that. TF2 manages it because it's extremely focused on it's balance. Even if it doesn't feel like it at times." AoE Weapons I feel are a whole different ballpark in that front, but usually the ways to expand their range is limited and their falloff holds them back. But Punch-Through? There's a difference between "sonic shockwaving everything off the map with your eyes" and "I shot the enemy with piercing rounds." Rubico Prime getting Punch-Through is a lot more different than a Singularity snagging everything on any bit of collision. ... because "only I get to have fun" is the motto for the Warframe Community. There was a reason Primed Firestorm/Primed Fulmination were met with a cautious glare. Once you open that Pandora's Box? It's a lot harder to close it. Oh, so the enemy (no longer getting snagged on a wall) can readjust themselves? Where they instead move towards the giant singularity that players are camping over like they're about to tell a spooky story? So that I don't have to make laps around the labyrinth we call a Defense Tileset trying to find the one schmuck everybody forgot about? I dunno about you, sounds great to me! The chance of them getting resnagged is better than them staying snagged. Especially when the people using Khora or Vauban don't really care to contribute. They wanna sit in one spot and be lazy as they can-- even at the detriment of others. I don't like people idling and leeching of off other players, but I feel Vortex and Strangledome are worse Now players have a thinly-veiled excuse to PRETEND they're doing something, but really just causing problems. But hey, ignorance is bliss, amiright? TLDR to unga the bunga: "I'd take enemies readjusting themselves and MAYBE fixing the issue itself over having to do your job for you. Especially since I don't recall signing up for unpaid babysitting." Remember where you said "Just run over and kill the thing?" Funny how that also applies here. Literally just run over and shoot the thing. It's that easy, right? Funny how nobody ever considers doing that when they're playing Vauban. ... but suddenly it's everyone else's job to do that when they're using an ability that slows things to crawl. I'm not going to sugarcoat. From the word you are wording this? You are afraid to move from your spot, move out of the way for those who can. It is ungodly frustrating that I constantly have to be held back by players who don't want to engage. You want a game that's built for "unwinding" or "being lazy"? Animal Crossing, Factorio, Minecraft (especially), casual Tower Defense-- there's plenty. Warframe is designed to engage players with Action and Parkour, testing their reflexes and precision to give them satisfaction of improvement. LIKE MOST SHOOTERS. IT'S KINDA THEIR SCHTICK. THE THING THEY'RE KNOWN FOR. God, why do I have to point this out? Who the hell let this problem get this out of control?! I WANT NAMES AND KNIVES. AAAAAAAGH!! You don't typically play Bejeweled to shoot something in the face with high precision. You don't typically play Legend of Zelda to date some side character. You don't typically play Harvest Moon to slaughter demons. Could you? Yeah, probably. There's nothing stopping those core genres from adding something like that. ... but you gotta give a reason for it's introduction. Mechanics have to exist for a reason. Even if I switch games-- people like this seem to never stop spawning. It's gonna be the death and I swear it's a prime reason to punch god square in the face. Not even for the games, mind... just for the fact that they walk this earth as well. TLDR, because literacy is a myth: "Warframe is an action-based shooter with heavy parkour elements. Mechanics demanding reflexes shouldn't be a surprise. If you go in expecting a lullaby, you're in for a rude awakening-- so don't complain when you have your ears ringing. FFS." Which usually tends to be... Eximus units with Overguard (Until they lose it, which isn't too difficult if you have at least 1 eye) Ancient Healers (Which have their auras quite easily disabled, even more so with Radiation Status) Some Sentients (That's... kinda to be expected, I suppose) Index Brokers or Rathuum Executioners (They're deathmatch enemies, I think that's kinda fair.) I'm not even sure if these guys are even perfect cases either, since I'm fairly certain most of them ARE affected by crowd control. Bosses. (Go figure) Highly specific, extremely rare enemies that you probably won't be seeing anyway... like Manics. (Seriously, if you can crowd control Manics? You're better off not doing that usually.) Nullifiers with their bubbles up. (Because Nullifier Bubble) So the only biggest case is Eximus Units and Ancient Healers. Both of which can be easily dealt with. Oh no, the two Eximus in the entire map have Overguard. What will we doooooo? (Shoot them, moron.) Oh no, Ancient Healers are using the aura? Whatever will we dooooo? (RADIATION EXISTS. HAS EXISTED FOR SEVERAL YEARS. USE IT.) Everything else is free game for the augment. Everything else is a roughly 50m Range with the typical Range mods applied. I think adding a penalty on there is the least of your concerns. ... also Blazing Chakram has functionality with it, duplicating itself on every hit. Putting Heat Procs and Damage Vulnerability on any enemies affected. Even without the Augment, there is valid use to it. TLDR, because big words scare people: "If you're running into that many stun-immune enemies, I think you have bigger issues. Like a lack of planning." Buddy. Pal. Friendo. It's Steel Path without the Steel Path modifiers. I do not believe you for a second, considering I rarely break my own shields in that mode. Let alone Overguard. Enemies there have less damage output than the typical Steel Path. It's just that you don't dodge. Try dodging, by the way. Maybe it's because any notion to do balance is met with a hailstorm of complains over something extremely trivial. So DE has to play it like it's professional Chess and be very articulate and robotic with their choices, else the community will rip them apart over... ... things like Styanax having to touch the ground after a 4 cast, players needing to actually move from their idle spot to collect ammo and Dante needing to actually refresh his Overguard. Great community! Very positive. I almost vomited typing that. I hate saying garbage like that, even if it's sarcasm. Where the hell were all of you when Heirloom Pack dropped and was asking for prices equal to a full retail game for two glorified Deluxe skins? Oh right, most of you were defending horrible practices that will ultimately backstab you in the end. Remember how they brought back the Deimos Supporter Pack? Yeah, real """exclusive""". Their excuse for doing that was "the pack was exclusive, the special items were not" and considering the Heirloom Skins aren't that much different? I think you can see the pattern. Making the logic of most players and their "muh exclusives" one big scam. We tried to warn them, but nobody was having it. I will say however- you are right in one thing here- they've done this stuff hundreds of times. Nobody sticks around long enough to remember that this isn't the first time. Yet they can do it over and over again because they'll keep getting players saying things like "Wow, I sure do enjoy power creep!" and leaving the wasteland when some other shiny thread catches their 0.2 second attention spawn. ... which leaves the rest of us- who HAVE played the game longer- aware of their antics and annoyed at the lack of innovation. So when people say "Oh, the Nezha Augment got nerfed so hard!" GOOD, we're still waiting on Gloom to get it's Slowdown taken off Helminth, Thermal Sunder to receive a Line-of-Sight (so people learn to use something else on Titania), Revenant's Mesmer Skin to get it's grace period removed, Phenmor/Felarx/Laetum to have it's Perk V modified, etc, etc. Abilities that make things either way too easy and trivialize content others enjoy... or suck the fun and variety out of things by being something untouchable. I know a lot of people don't like things such as "Damage Attenuation", but the reason it exists at all is because you all keep demanding more power... but never put in the work to actually understand that power. DE is not omnipotent or even that morally good-- but I can understand why they can't make content worth a damn when people keep asking for ceaseless buffs to things that don't need it. DE has to cater to idiots, so of course they're going to treat you like idiots. (Something along the lines of "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.") Blind fools who couldn't possibly see this coming. Blind fools who will spend money on the newest shiny and never expect some kind of """rug pull""". This isn't new for the industry, it's certainly not new for DE, it's not even something exclusive to gaming. Humans have been doing for YEARS. ... but can you really blame the company giving you exactly what you asked for? No, you can't. Moving on. TLDR, since I know my audience: "You all keep asking for more and more power, but complain like a child when something else gets power. You all love it when DE shovels garbage down your throat, but hate it when they try something they want to do. It's not that much different from a tantrum, but at least a child would adapt at some point. Trying to figure out where they went wrong. Are you not that much better than 5 year old's learning capacity... or are you just that ignorant?" Overall though? Can't wait for Duet Night Abyss. Since a fresh take on this stale formula will do wonders for my head. ... and miracles in pushing you all elsewhere if it doesn't pan out for me. I know the habits of this community, I've been here long enough.

And while we're at it, let's make every shot of the Laetum do True Damage with a x5 Multiplier. What could possibly go wrong? It's bad enough abilities like Vauban's Vortex or Gauss' Thermal Sunder aren't really restricted to Line of Sight. The reason a lot of "overpowered" and "automation" abilities get used so frequently is because you can buff their range to entire rooms-- regardless of things in the way. It's especially a problem on things like Vortex since players often don't fix the issue they're making. Everything gets snagged on a wall. But eh, this kinda opinion is usually coming from the side of the playerbase that doesn't care if they're creating problems. Other players can go sound themselves for daring to speak against their lord, clearly this Strangledome is the best thing since sliced cancer. So what would I know, hm? I'm just some weirdo who thinks players should work a team in a Co-Op Multiplayer Game for once, what a lunatic right? I just hope some of you don't have important jobs. Because this kinda nonsensical logic carries over to that... and that scares me. A lot.

CAN YOU STOP THAT. IT WAS FINE BEFORE. DO WE REALLY NEED TO NUCLEAR ATOMIZE THE CONTENT FURTHER? I swear, you could remove literally 5 points of Overguard and they'd scream "the nerf is too much!" FEEBLE.

I don't even know that profanity filter is the way it is. But I'm also wondering why some renames aren't censored for similar logic... You mean https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Ambassador_Tenet_Skin? I agree, it should return. Not sure why it hasn't already. I'm not sure about direct "stat increases", from my usage of it recently? It's not that bad. Low damage for it's firerate? Absolutely, still very much kills if you can get past that. It's accuracy is practically dead-on which is really nice! But it's "dual mode" feels like it's missing something, which is why I ask for an Augment instead. I'd rather have something different to Secondary Encumber, but with a mildly same idea. Mainly to keep the two somewhat unique in their own regards. As for Conjunction Voltage? We got that in Primary Frostbite/Primary Blight. Instead of Electric? It's Cold or Toxin.

Huh, a lot of good changes here. Some are questionable, but overall nice! From my run of Deep Archimedia? REALLY fun mode! Please keep up the daunting challenges, it's been a long while since I've had to carefully gauge my fights! ... and when are we getting Auto-Melee Toggle?