It takes almost half a year to collect all the incarnon adapters- Timegated FOMO is the wrong direction for WF

[SneakyErvin]

20 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Why does a reward being obtainable from a different mode make it not appealing? Are things like Forma and Kuva and potatoes and unlockers and Rivens not appealing because they're obtainable from different modes?

I'm also wondering what otherwise-unobtainable rewards you think should be offered instead, since previously you suggested Duviri and Eidolon Arcanes:

All of those things come in limited amounts overall, so when there is a chance to get them you do so. I already made an example a few times regarding what claps would be similar to i.e Void Storms. Unlimited items obtainable through an easier and quicker method, meaning no appeal for a wider audience to grab it from Void Storms.

Kinda been over that already. You were the one that used arcanes as an evergreen example by using a quote from DE as fact of what evergreen is. I simply said allowing arcanes as tier rewards would be a choice from that point of view. But like i said later on, adding all potential evergreens to pick from as tier rewards would attract as many as possible i.e everyone. So pre-built adapters (all kinds), taters, relic packs (of reasonable size), rivens (with choice of type), kuva (of reasonable size), pre-built forma (all types aside from Umbra), arcanes and whatever else can fit. Restricted to one purchase of each per week, so you could grab 2 different adapters or 2 different forma, a relic pack and a forma, a riven and a tater or whatever other combo you might want/need. Something for everyone. It is either that or tokens, or using genesis dupes as tokens. Clamps wouldnt work with that variety, since at that point they'd have to rework how vendors work, so it recognizes that you've used up your weekly quota of clamps on those specific items after having bought 2 while leaving everything else purchasable. Otherwise people would be able to buy everything every week since there is no limit on how many clamps you can earn from Experience/Story. And you earlier were the one to say DE shouldnt reinvent the wheel, which having to rework a vendor would be, more so than just adding more picks to the tier UI.

20 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Yet are these not also already available in different modes? Eidolon Arcanes are already available from Eidolon Hunts and are available from the regular Circuit (minus Energize/Barrier/Grace), and Duviri Arcanes are all already available through Acrithis and through the bonus SP Experience portals and through the SP Circuit main track. Why is it that you can suggest adding rewards already obtainable from a different mode but I can't? Or have you changed your mind again and are suggesting something different now?

Because Eidolons is old old old content by now. This would also just be there to help speed up by giving you 1 arcane out of 21 per week. Though as we've already been over a few posts ago, this was just an idea spawned from what you linked as viable evergreen rewards. Clamps are in the end guaranteed, quick to get and without any limit, they are simply a generic currency. Still not sure why you went back to arcanes this far into the discussion.

20 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Oh I don't agree with that at all. If someone doesn't like the Circuit, I don't think they should be forced into it. There are many reasons to not like it beyond just rewards, and pushing someone in when they don't like the gear RNG or the gameplay or the difficulty is just mean. Why would it be good to make someone miserable playing content they don't like every week for perpetuity? I'm much more interested in benefiting the people who already enjoy or are open to playing it, and letting those that don't find some other activity (like the Experience) that they might enjoy more instead.

Because all of the items are in essence optional. And like I said, it cannot be solved by adding multiple options to the vendor without a rework of how the vendor(s) work. Sure they could do something bulky like allowing genesis to be turned in for clamps and then clamps turned into tokens, then the tokens can be used for 2 out of all the new offerings per week. But that would just look like amateur hour while not helping the mode that has finite rewards in any impactful way.

By the way, you must really hate the idea of all content in the game since everything effectively pushes you into it if you want the rewards from it. And the majority of those options arent nearly as optional as evergreen rewards would be if added to Circuit specifically.

20 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

And if an improvement to the Circuit improves Duviri overall, it's still an improvement to the Circuit. Improving something is not contingent on nothing else being improved at the same time. If both are improved, great.

And how long do you imagine the interest for Circuit will be kept with your "improvement"? Eventually it will die off all the same since people will rather do things efficient. I mean, there are already 8 tiers of rewards per week, but somehow tier 5 and 10 are critial to the longevity of the mode. You really think clamps will keep people playing when rivens and other things across 9 tiers wont already attract players that already enjoy circuit? 

Since clearly people go "Darnit, all those rivens, adapters and things, but tier 5 and 10 wont give me anything, so all those rivens, adapters and things arent worth my time!". Is that how you think people think?

20 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Says the guy bragging about his muh 900 Clamps and demanding unique loot that no one else is allowed to get. 🙄

Bragging lol? No, I was simply given a number on how much can be expected from someone with avarage outcome on arcane rewards in Experience since guaranteed clamps are granted on the way to the portals.

[PublikDomain]

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

All of those things come in limited amounts overall, so when there is a chance to get them you do so. I already made an example a few times regarding what claps would be similar to i.e Void Storms. Unlimited items obtainable through an easier and quicker method, meaning no appeal for a wider audience to grab it from Void Storms.

Acrithis' shop is already limited except for decorations. Who said anything about unlimited? Please quote me where I suggested an unlimited shop. You're just inventing things to argue about.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

And how long do you imagine the interest for Circuit will be kept with your "improvement"?

For me? Perpetually. Because I like the Circuit and enjoy playing it. And I'll still play it some even without the rewards if I want something to do. I'd play it a more with rewards I can use, though.

But I don't think you're really understanding something...

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

But like i said later on, adding all potential evergreens to pick from as tier rewards would attract as many as possible i.e everyone. So pre-built adapters (all kinds), taters, relic packs (of reasonable size), rivens (with choice of type), kuva (of reasonable size), pre-built forma (all types aside from Umbra), arcanes and whatever else can fit. Restricted to one purchase of each per week, so you could grab 2 different adapters or 2 different forma, a relic pack and a forma, a riven and a tater or whatever other combo you might want/need. Something for everyone.

Acrithis already sells most of this stuff.

She is already Duviri's "something for everyone" Vendor.

Everything you've suggested is either already there or could just be added.

So to answer your question a little more generally: it'd keep the same amount of interest for the same amount of time as whatever it is you're saying because it offers the same stuff. If your suggested rewards are good enough when you say it then they're just as good enough when I say it.

The only difference between these two equally-rewarding and equally-valuable distribution methods is whether the shop actually includes everyone or is made specifically to exclude certain people. You say:

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Something for everyone.

And I agree.

But you're being a hypocrite when you say this while at the same time suggesting that specific steps should be taken just to exclude a group of players. If you genuinely believe in "something for everyone" then I don't see why you're getting so twisted at the thought of everyone being included. Everyone means everyone.

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Since clearly people go "Darnit, all those rivens, adapters and things, but tier 5 and 10 wont give me anything, so all those rivens, adapters and things arent worth my time!". Is that how you think people think?

On 2023-08-15 at 5:27 AM, SneakyErvin said:

I'll still do Circuit from time to time, atleast tier 1-4 incase a forma, warframe adapter, tater or something else worthwhile ends up at one of those tiers. I will however not play beyond that tier since the time investment at that point just isnt worth it.

I mean you said yourself you stop at 4 and won't go beyond that so idk, answer your own question. 🤷‍♀️

4 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Bragging lol? No, I was simply given a number on how much can be expected from someone with avarage outcome on arcane rewards in Experience since guaranteed clamps are granted on the way to the portals.

On 2023-08-16 at 6:17 AM, SneakyErvin said:

I'm at 900 something clamps at the moment, so I'm looking at uhm 15 weeks (depending on which weekly awards show up) or something of not touching anything Duviri related but Circuit for T5 weapons and some T10 for the latest batch.

Mmhm.

[SneakyErvin]

18 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Acrithis' shop is already limited except for decorations. Who said anything about unlimited? Please quote me where I suggested an unlimited shop. You're just inventing things to argue about.

Oh gods please teach this man how to comprehend what is written. Where and how did you get that part to be about the offerings??? It is about the clamps themselves. How did you not get that context from what you quoted?

19 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

For me? Perpetually. Because I like the Circuit and enjoy playing it. And I'll still play it some even without the rewards if I want something to do. I'd play it a more with rewards I can use, though.

But I don't think you're really understanding something...

But it isnt about you or me as you've so clearly pointed out before. Or that only applies when it is the me "you" and not the you "you"?

 

19 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

Acrithis already sells most of this stuff.

She is already Duviri's "something for everyone" Vendor.

Everything you've suggested is either already there or could just be added.

So to answer your question a little more generally: it'd keep the same amount of interest for the same amount of time as whatever it is you're saying because it offers the same stuff. If your suggested rewards are good enough when you say it then they're just as good enough when I say it.

The only difference between these two equally-rewarding and equally-valuable distribution methods is whether the shop actually includes everyone or is made specifically to exclude certain people. You say:

And you manage to dodge the important part I pointed out. How would the shop work with more items that would result in several being inaccessible after having purchased 2 out of all of them? Or do you simply want the vendor to have what it currently has and add Circuit as another method of gaining clamps worth 2 purchases out of 5 per week?

19 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

And I agree.

But you're being a hypocrite when you say this while at the same time suggesting that specific steps should be taken just to exclude a group of players. If you genuinely believe in "something for everyone" then I don't see why you're getting so twisted at the thought of everyone being included. Everyone means everyone.

Clearly not. For instance for me there would be no incentive to go and do Circuit with your reward plan. And everyone that already dislikes both Diviri and Circuit would only see it as missing out on even more rewards at that point. So this whole utopia idea that we should be able to get it from either by reworking the vendor would do nothing since it wouldnt actually mean everyone. Atleast my idea helps a mode that actually needs help to sustain itself, which solve that problem atleast. And by adding a wide variety of rewards directly from it would try to give incentives to as many as possible to revisit it even if they have everything. I would do T5 and T10 if I couldnt reach the weekly cap for those items in another way, same reason why I dredge through Kahl like a good slave every week.

19 hours ago, PublikDomain said:

I mean you said yourself you stop at 4 and won't go beyond that so idk, answer your own question. 🤷‍♀️

I cant answer my own question since I dont base my T5/10 clearing on the T5/10 rewards atm. So adding clamps there would change nothing regarding if I do the tiers or not in the future. Add clamps and more weekly rewards and I'll still just do T1-4 and then go to Duviri for the clamps as needed. Since it wont be worth my time getting a 1-time clamp reward at T5 per week, and much less at T10 when the items getting there arent really worth it to begin with. However, add something that I cannot get in another way, something of my choice and I'll surely do all 10 tiers weekly.

[Amolistic.]

 

On 2023-08-19 at 2:57 AM, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

It used to be low fomo but that has changed for the worse since veilbreaker. While I agree you can eventually get the incarnons as they will never go away, waiting almost 2 months now is extremely anti player and completely unnecessary. It is exactly not the way to gain player retention and involvement and in fact has not worked for DE. I am talking in circles though and this has already been said. Publik and Ervin, you two will never see eye to eye lol.

its live service bro, your assumptions of "waiting for 2 months for all rewards bad" is good for you, but hell for dev team. imagine developing content for months just to have it finished in weeks, i bet y'all are going to scream for new updates already. Plus, they just want you to come back, even if the frequency is low, it is still consider "keep you intact"

Now tell me, how do you gain retention if there is no more thing to grind or there is any content to be desired? Yes not the exact way, but you can provide your view to back up this point.

 

It is hard for me to be convinced if you don't provide any clear logical points and "why" at all since you already throw out the question of "this way of gaining retention bad", to be honest...But i do get the reason why you feel frustrated, regarding to those timegates.

 

Gives and takes exist, just like yin and yang in chinese culture.

If someone benefits, someone is going to bear the price.