Why are long/heavy weapons so bad?

[L3512]

8 hours ago, LocoWithGun said:

Back in the old days before galvanized mods and primary/secondary arcanes guns really struggled with SP-level content,

Meanwhile using melee with huge range and gimmicks like meme strike was the go-to option.

Decent guns functioned fine in SP when it came out, enemy armour scaling was severely nerfed in early 2020 and SP was introduced in mid 2020 so the only real difference was the four player spawns and to need to quickly clear hordes for solo.

Also Maiming Meta never coexisted with SP.

 

8 hours ago, LocoWithGun said:

You can tell melee in general is not in a good state when an increasing amount of high level melee guides mention the use of a primer as a core part of the build. So using actual guns is now a part of a melee build. The clear elephant in the room being, if i need to shoot things to kill them with melee why not just, you know, keeps shooting and killing enemies that way.

To be fair this isn't need for base SP and even with guns using a primer will generally boost DPS as we have GunCO, you free up mod slots by removing elementals or more stacks of viral etc. 

[Traumtulpe]

7 hours ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

Right? People tend to think melee 3.0 added follow through when it existed long before.

Follow through existed, but they nerfed the values (especially for heavy blades) with the update. "We always had follow through and only now display it" was just typical DE gaslighting.

[(PSN)Joylesstuna]

15 hours ago, Traumtulpe said:

Follow through existed, but they nerfed the values (especially for heavy blades) with the update. "We always had follow through and only now display it" was just typical DE gaslighting.

Maybe they did change the values but that doesnt change the fact that follow through did exist before melee 3.0. The only gaslighting I'm seeing is you. Both of my comments you quote info about "well it used to be better" which isn't the point I'm trying to make nor am I saying heavy blades are in a good spot.

Edited May 8, 2023 by (PSN)Joylesstuna

[Traumtulpe]

37 minutes ago, (PSN)Joylesstuna said:

The only gaslighting I'm seeing is you.

Right. So nerfing something big time and saying "oh don't worry about this stat we've added, it's always been there and we just changed how things are displayed" is not gaslighting then? Guess I'm not familiar with the term then.

[vixenpixel]

On 2023-05-08 at 10:28 PM, Traumtulpe said:

Right. So nerfing something big time and saying "oh don't worry about this stat we've added, it's always been there and we just changed how things are displayed" is not gaslighting then? Guess I'm not familiar with the term then.

Kinda derailing at this point. Nobody cares. Let's get back to the overall point errybody can agree on. And thats a melee fix. I truly think melee would be plain more balanced to the gunplay without the over-deflation of damage caused by follow-through. The issue has never been more severe than with the incarnon update transforming gameplay towards the use of weapons like lex and latron. Dont get me wrong, i love playing around with the new weapons and besides the obvious disposition nerf they have incoming i dont think more needs happen to balance them. But it does severely bring to attention the state of melee 2023.

Isn't it inherently dishonest that big range equals less damage and the more range you add to a weapon the less impactful that range is?

While if you add range to an aoe gun the added radius adds more damage.

 

Edited May 10, 2023 by vixenpixel

[vixenpixel]

On 2023-05-05 at 9:50 PM, Tiltskillet said:

RE: heavy blades, The new Magus Agress arcane might imply DE thinks they could use some help.  Not that I think an arcane is a good solution, or that I understand why heavy blades might need the help more than, say, hammers or staves.

The issue with this arcane has nothing to do with melee though. I love the idea of magus aggress. It seems fun. I just got it to rank5 and Im eager to play around with it. But I won't. Because then I have to switch my operator arcanes manually everytime I don't want to play with a heavy blade. That's just such a bad joke on DE's part. If they make it so that, along with all the other stuff we can set in a loadouts, we can also change operator arcanes in loadouts, I would love to use magus aggress. 

[vixenpixel]

I feel like the new Doorclave Dagath melee just took follow-through and cemented it as a warframe staple. Now, the only thing that can actually fix this terrible mechanic is to add arcanes to melee, one of which has to have a follow-through fix mechanic on it. It's a sad day for melee enthusiasts. :(

[Hexerin]

On 2023-05-04 at 7:06 PM, Salenstormwing said:

Tempo Royale makes every heavy blade great. Its the weapon stance that I always pick for Heavy Blade weapons. If you're not using Tempo Royale, you're not having a good stance. Because it's a fun stance.

You've already been corrected, but it really stands to be emphasized how bad Tempo Royale is. It's better than Cleaving Whirlwind of course, but that's simply because Cleaving Whirlwind has a broken (as in not working) combo that still to this day DE refuses to fix. The only real choice for heavy blade, if you actually want to properly contribute to the damage output of your squad, is Rending Crane. Which is, unfortunately, a pretty mid stance for damage compared to other weapon classes (good CC though, if you take advantage of that).

Edited September 30, 2023 by Hexerin