Why cant we have the Eidolon Vomvalysts as a Sentinel companion?

[0_The_F00l]

16 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Denial, drama, defensiveness? No. I'm simply lining up the reasons behind why those things make sense. But you are correct, DE can do whatever, it does however not mean it would make sense. I'm simply here stating why something like what is suggested wouldnt fit.

But that isnt what is asked for. They ask for a eidolon vomvalyst. I've said nothing about not being able to have other sentients ally with us. So stop making up what is actually being said.

Yeah, so we dont know. And since no plan was set in motion by the Sentient regarding earth eidolons, we can assume they arent possible to "cure".

I dont see what that has to do with a tiny undead sentient. Hunhow is very much a living sentient with his own plans, agendas and motives. Lotus was also not pacified, she was extremely damaged. She didnt turn crazy until we started to repair her with shards. She was never an eidolon in the sense of those on earth, because she never actually died, she was on the brink.

Huh, so you don't actually oppose sentient companions specifically , just eidolon variants.

Cool that clarifies a few things.

I don't particularly mind , we can get a "non eidolon" vomvalyst (or any sentient honestly) and could just get a ghostly skin for it as a seperate cosmetic.

[SneakyErvin]

57 minutes ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Huh, so you don't actually oppose sentient companions specifically , just eidolon variants.

Cool that clarifies a few things.

I don't particularly mind , we can get a "non eidolon" vomvalyst (or any sentient honestly) and could just get a ghostly skin for it as a seperate cosmetic.

Sentient companions would be natural since they are in the end living thinking creatures and if some can change their mind others can aswell. Eidolons are just mindless, that is why I dont see a connection to why we would have them or why they would ever join us. Then beyond that it really depends how much free will the lesser sentients have. Like in the case of Caliban, are his lysts allies to him or just manifestations spawned from his void powers and armaments, are they actual lysts or non-sentient copies? And if they are real lysts, do they have any actual will of their own or just do as they are programmed? If they are real and have will, it shows that not all sentients are opposed to working with the tenno. 

For me his lysts are real, since they arent only looking and acting like sentients, they also have all the benefits, like adaptation towards damage and so on. But I cant say for sure if they act on their own out of free will or if they are just programmed.

[0_The_F00l]

50 minutes ago, SneakyErvin said:

Sentient companions would be natural since they are in the end living thinking creatures and if some can change their mind others can aswell. Eidolons are just mindless, that is why I dont see a connection to why we would have them or why they would ever join us. Then beyond that it really depends how much free will the lesser sentients have. Like in the case of Caliban, are his lysts allies to him or just manifestations spawned from his void powers and armaments, are they actual lysts or non-sentient copies? And if they are real lysts, do they have any actual will of their own or just do as they are programmed? If they are real and have will, it shows that not all sentients are opposed to working with the tenno. 

For me his lysts are real, since they arent only looking and acting like sentients, they also have all the benefits, like adaptation towards damage and so on. But I cant say for sure if they act on their own out of free will or if they are just programmed.

Hah, have you seen the intelligence of our companions in general? - they seem to be programmed exceptional well to be stupid at times.

a sufficiently well programmed entity can do the functions of a sentient one well enough. Sentients (that we see in the game) were also in the beginning programmed machines. The various "lysts" are all very single minded in their actions , so yeah i dont see it being a challenge to control/create one.

 

[nslay]

Sure, if you want to experience truly worse companion AI, Vomvalyst sentinels all the way.

They are really stupid as enemies. You should spend some time with them on PoE. You can walk around them and they won't even notice you... even if you almost brush up on their backs. Grineer at least look over their shoulders occasionally.

[SneakyErvin]

19 hours ago, 0_The_F00l said:

Hah, have you seen the intelligence of our companions in general? - they seem to be programmed exceptional well to be stupid at times.

a sufficiently well programmed entity can do the functions of a sentient one well enough. Sentients (that we see in the game) were also in the beginning programmed machines. The various "lysts" are all very single minded in their actions , so yeah i dont see it being a challenge to control/create one.

 

Gameplay =/= lore though. The limitations of how they act in game doesnt positively reflect how they actually would perform, no matter if it is our sentinels or the sentients or other enemies we face. And "i dont see it being a challenge to control/create one" uhm the Orokin begs to differ... and we arent even archimedians or close to it. Nor are we sentients, which is likely what gave birth to all the lysts to create a warmachine big enough to attack Sol.

But as I said, if a sentient would like to freely join us, sure no problem since it would actually make sense due to them being sentient creatures.

[0_The_F00l]

1 hour ago, SneakyErvin said:

Gameplay =/= lore though. The limitations of how they act in game doesnt positively reflect how they actually would perform, no matter if it is our sentinels or the sentients or other enemies we face. And "i dont see it being a challenge to control/create one" uhm the Orokin begs to differ... and we arent even archimedians or close to it. Nor are we sentients, which is likely what gave birth to all the lysts to create a warmachine big enough to attack Sol.

But as I said, if a sentient would like to freely join us, sure no problem since it would actually make sense due to them being sentient creatures.

By that logic the orokin failed in quite a few things where we succeeded , so does that mean the tenno are incapable of doing things the orokin could not do the tenno work differently , and are capable of quite a few things cause "void magic" ? But that's not what I meant I meant more from the reasoning of things , how believable it would be to make players accept it 

And as I said , multiple times which you repeatedly ignore , we already have a very good strategist that is entirely wentient (possibly a good manipulator as well) and a frame that is hybrid sentient and a scientist (possibly dead) that has created more sentient hybrids.

So if DE wanted to , they can very easily explain away how they (in game lore) did it , that was the part where I said it would not be a challenge for them to come up with any excuse to make it plausible for tenno to have sentient companions.

[SneakyErvin]

1 hour ago, 0_The_F00l said:

By that logic the orokin failed in quite a few things where we succeeded , so does that mean the tenno are incapable of doing things the orokin could not do the tenno work differently , and are capable of quite a few things cause "void magic" ? But that's not what I meant I meant more from the reasoning of things , how believable it would be to make players accept it 

And as I said , multiple times which you repeatedly ignore , we already have a very good strategist that is entirely wentient (possibly a good manipulator as well) and a frame that is hybrid sentient and a scientist (possibly dead) that has created more sentient hybrids.

So if DE wanted to , they can very easily explain away how they (in game lore) did it , that was the part where I said it would not be a challenge for them to come up with any excuse to make it plausible for tenno to have sentient companions.

I'm not sure what the tenno have succeeded with that the orokin didnt. We havent done anything specific really that isnt a direct product of what the orokin already succeeded with.

I havent ignored it, since like I said a sentient swapping sides or similar would work. As you can see I dont have anything against Caliban, which is a frame explained through Ballas and his work alongside the sentient as a "slave". 

Yes DE can come up with anything, that still doesnt mean it makes sense. Like you say, it would be no challenge for them to come up with a thing, but that isnt what your wording sounded like, since at that point you are meta using knowledge beyond the 4th wall, that it is the devs that do everything. And no one really argued what DE can and cannot do, just how it would make sense in the game. A question that becomes pointless when one party simply goes "DE can do whatever!", since that can be applied to everything and simply takes a discussion no further.

 

[0_The_F00l]

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I'm not sure what the tenno have succeeded with that the orokin didnt. We havent done anything specific really that isnt a direct product of what the orokin already succeeded with.

Controlling warframes to end the old war , it was kinda their whole thing 

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I havent ignored it, since like I said a sentient swapping sides or similar would work. As you can see I dont have anything against Caliban, which is a frame explained through Ballas and his work alongside the sentient as a "slave". 

Ok sure. Pretty much what i am saying too you know. 

2 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Yes DE can come up with anything, that still doesnt mean it makes sense. Like you say, it would be no challenge for them to come up with a thing, but that isnt what your wording sounded like, since at that point you are meta using knowledge beyond the 4th wall, that it is the devs that do everything. And no one really argued what DE can and cannot do, just how it would make sense in the game. A question that becomes pointless when one party simply goes "DE can do whatever!", since that can be applied to everything and simply takes a discussion no further.

Question is how believable it will be to players , or atleast to someone like me. 

I am still pretty pissed off about the eternalism rubbish they filled their plot holes with.

But getting a sentient companion ? Doesn't really feel far fetched.