Could you do me a favor and remove the Line-of-Sight restriction on Mag's Ability 2 Blast?

[Probably_Asleep]

My goal is to consistently get to Elite Sanctuary Onslaught Zone #8 with Mag while playing solo. (Until I have all the blueprint components at least)

Most weeks it's not that hard. But this week it is, and the reason is this area:
Kuva Fortress
Tunnels, catwalks, pillars, and holes spread over a large area make this a nightmare in a game mode that prioritizes KPM.

So...
Could you do me a favor and remove the Line-of-Sight restriction on Mag's Ability 2 Blast?

This would still make the game mode difficult, but no longer borderline-impossible. And I think it's only fair, since Mag's Bubble already attracts past walls and breaks crates past walls. So why do enemies' bodies need LoS?

I will now address some potential objections:

• This would make Mag too Powerful
  • More powerful than Saryn? 
  • If just this sets Mag over the edge, then Mag's already too powerful.
• Not every frame can nuke rooms, why should Mag?
  • Why should any?
  • (I actually agree) How about Marked For Death instead? Remove its Line-of-Site restriction.
• Elite Sanctuary Onslaught is meant to be played with a squad
  • Then don't make it the only way to obtain certain items.
  • I'd also be fine if the rewards rotation was changed to ABC.
• Get better
  • I've beat everything and made it to MR24 while only playing solo as Mag/Prime. If this is a skill issue, then ESO is the highest difficulty mission in the game.
  • I'm open to tips, as long as it's not to cheat on Mag.
• You don't even need to play ESO these days
  • I'm trying to make it to MR30 without getting any points from other frames (except Umbra as that's compulsory); every weapon counts.
  • I can get to zone 8 most weeks, I just don't want to have to abandon the weeks with a bad zone-roll.

There are a few alternate changes that would also suit my purpose, but I didn't lead with them because I believe these would make Mag too powerful or would ruin the experience for others:

1. Have Mag's Pull (when held) continue to pull enemies into her vortex, and have the enemies get teleported directly to her
2. Make Mag's Crush ability deal the displayed attack value per hit rather than the 3 hits totaling that amount ("1500" actually is 500x3 right now)
3. Double Mag's base Magnetize bubble radius from 4 to 8
4. Give Polarize the added effect of increasing enemy weakness to Magnetic Damage by +200%
5. Place items around the ESO areas that do things like +500% Ability Strength or Range for 10s
6. Take out levels that require too much running for too little enemy encounters
7. Place 4 Efficiency Stimulus until the first C rotation
8. Let the player deploy Specters from their Gear Wheel
9. Increase the Enemy Spawn Rate to the same level as a 4-member squad even for solo players
10. Instruct the enemy AI to always be approaching the player rather than just chilling in their hidden crevasses

Any of these things would provide the edge I need to get to zone 8 every time, but I feel like the least impactful would be to just make Mag's bubble explosion do what all the other explosive weapons do and damage through objects.

Edited October 7, 2023 by (NSW)Probably_Asleep
"I will not" changed to "I will now"

[Circle_of_Psi]

DE are very tight-lipped on their LoS resections so, no amount of explaining in super high detail reasons -Why- it should be removed, will likely fall on deaf ears.

Edited October 7, 2023 by Circle_of_Psi
being sleep deprived isn't fun

[Probably_Asleep]

47 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

DE are very tight-lipped on their LoS resections so, no amount of explaining in super high detail reasons -Why- it should be removed, will likely fall on deaf ears.

My like was because of your Edit Comment - Truer words...

So two things:

1. I too choose to believe that the ears are not always deaf.
2. Fair point! I will elaborate:
   IF Warframe is supposed to be playable solo, then all content should be solo-able.
   IF (also) Warframe characters are playable, then all content should be doable by all characters.
   SO: Elite Sanctuary Onslaught needs a redesign, or Mag (probably others) needs better KPM through walls.

I believe the above statements are true, I've beat all missions in the game with solo-Mag. (Even 8+ ESO) So the Kuva Fortress tileset seems like an outlier.

And with that, there are only two real options: Raise Mag (and others frames) KPM potential, OR lower ESO's requirements.

Personally, I know that lowering the requirements of ESO is probably the most reasonable choice. But I'd like to take my shot first at getting my character upgraded.

[Circle_of_Psi]

8 minutes ago, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

My like was because of your Edit Comment - Truer words...

So two things:

1. I too choose to believe that the ears are not always deaf.
2. Fair point! I will elaborate:
   IF Warframe is supposed to be playable solo, then all content should be solo-able.
   IF (also) Warframe characters are playable, then all content should be doable by all characters.
   SO: Elite Sanctuary Onslaught needs a redesign, or Mag (probably others) needs better KPM through walls.

I believe the above statements are true, I've beat all missions in the game with solo-Mag. (Even 8+ ESO) So the Kuva Fortress tileset seems like an outlier.

And with that, there are only two real options: Raise Mag (and others frames) KPM potential, OR lower ESO's requirements.

Personally, I know that lowering the requirements of ESO is probably the most reasonable choice. But I'd like to take my shot first at getting my character upgraded.

That's a fair response!

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Magnetize doesn't even have that big of a range to be considered a problem. The fact that it's LoS based is annoying, especially since even the smallest slope can be enough to block some LoS based abilities. Flashback to a couple Khora nerfs.

She's in no doubt a good spot with all her augments and stuff but having a better radius check at the very least wouldn't hurt anybody.

 

Also Polarize being completely worthless on stripped enemies makes my blood boil.

[(XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn]

You wrote all that and it didn't occur to you to just ask for Kuva Fortress to be removed as a zone?

[RLanzinger]

To anyone else,

I will now address some potential EXTRA objections:

Elite Sanctuary Onslaught is meant to be played with a squad

• Then don't make it the only way to obtain certain items. that players can forfeit in the middle of the mission.
• I'd also be fine if the rewards rotation was changed to ABC. Duviri Circuit Points system.

Get better

• I've beat everything and made it to MR24 while only playing solo as Mag/Prime. If this is a skill issue, then ESO is the highest difficulty mission in the game.
• I'm open to tips, as long as it's not to cheat on Mag.
• I've been playing since early 2013, my personal skills CANNOT get better
• yeah, My KillDeath ration in PvP was 1 : 80 and my surname is Mr NoSkill ... why should it banish me from having rare ESO rewards ?

You don't even need to play ESO these days

• I'm trying to make it to MR30 without getting any points from other frames (except Umbra as that's compulsory); every weapon counts.
• I can get to zone 8 most weeks, I just don't want to have to abandon the weeks with a bad zone-roll.
• I still need one last vandal blueprint and have done it 3 times per week during 2 years WITHOUT success. That more than 300 runs dedicated to get one BLUEPRINT...

If I could solo 8 tiles just play ESO with another Warframe than Saryn, Like MAG...  I'd be happy to not get VOMITLY bored by those 8 Tiles runs that failed 75% of times because :

• players do not care about doing more rot A,
• players rage-quit when they see a Saryn besides their...
• players rage-quit after telling me "your Saryn is not Meta, you don't know the game" (They just spit [DE] motto of "Diversity")
• the game just crash after doing 3 Host migrations because no one want to go rot C

So I Completely Approve of @(NSW)Probably_Asleep 's idea for the Diversity that it could bring in ESO ...

Edited October 7, 2023 by RLanzinger
a bit formatting :p

[Probably_Asleep]

7 hours ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

Magnetize doesn't even have that big of a range to be considered a problem. The fact that it's LoS based is annoying, especially since even the smallest slope can be enough to block some LoS based abilities. Flashback to a couple Khora nerfs.

She's in no doubt a good spot with all her augments and stuff but having a better radius check at the very least wouldn't hurt anybody.

 

Also Polarize being completely worthless on stripped enemies makes my blood boil.

Totally agree! I also think that if blast weapons damage through walls then a blast attack should do the same. I like conceptual consistency.

Also there with you on Polarize. I love its augment, but I hardly ever use it if I'm not planning on using the augment. It's my usual subsume slot.

 

6 hours ago, (XBOX)RaeOvSunshyn said:

You wrote all that and it didn't occur to you to just ask for Kuva Fortress to be removed as a zone?

🤦‍♂️
(Actually the thought did cross my mind, but I dismissed it because I thought: "But what it there are other people that really love the Kuva Fortress Zone?" ...Saying it out loud though makes me realize how ridiculous that is)

 

5 hours ago, RLanzinger said:

To anyone else,

I will now address some potential EXTRA objections:

Elite Sanctuary Onslaught is meant to be played with a squad

• Then don't make it the only way to obtain certain items. that players can forfeit in the middle of the mission.
• I'd also be fine if the rewards rotation was changed to ABC. Duviri Circuit Points system.

Get better

• I've beat everything and made it to MR24 while only playing solo as Mag/Prime. If this is a skill issue, then ESO is the highest difficulty mission in the game.
• I'm open to tips, as long as it's not to cheat on Mag.
• I've been playing since early 2013, my personal skills CANNOT get better
• yeah, My KillDeath ration in PvP was 1 : 80 and my surname is Mr NoSkill ... why should it banish me from having rare ESO rewards ?

You don't even need to play ESO these days

• I'm trying to make it to MR30 without getting any points from other frames (except Umbra as that's compulsory); every weapon counts.
• I can get to zone 8 most weeks, I just don't want to have to abandon the weeks with a bad zone-roll.
• I still need one last vandal blueprint and have done it 3 times per week during 2 years WITHOUT success. That more than 300 runs dedicated to get one BLUEPRINT...

If I could solo 8 tiles just play ESO with another Warframe than Saryn, Like MAG...  I'd be happy to not get VOMITLY bored by those 8 Tiles runs that failed 75% of times because :

• players do not care about doing more rot A,
• players rage-quit when they see a Saryn besides their...
• players rage-quit after telling me "your Saryn is not Meta, you don't know the game" (They just spit [DE] motto of "Diversity")
• the game just crash after doing 3 Host migrations because no one want to go rot C

So I Completely Approve of @(NSW)Probably_Asleep 's idea for the Diversity that it could bring in ESO ...

Beautiful formatting! Colors, italicizing, boldness, and strikethroughs are all used in a symphony of meta-writing.

I'm always glad to hear what the squad-scene is like because I only solo. I can't imagine how stressful and frustrating it would be to have randos join and sabotage a mission.

You so have a skill. The skill of mental endurance. Happy 10th anniversary, by the way!

2 YEARS!? If they make cross-trade a thing and if I ever get a spare part, please let me trade it with you for like a Vitality Mod or something.

It sounds like this problem is much deeper than I realized, especially for the squadsters.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

il y a 35 minutes, (NSW)Probably_Asleep a dit :

Totally agree! I also think that if blast weapons damage through walls then a blast attack should do the same. I like conceptual consistency.

Also there with you on Polarize. I love its augment, but I hardly ever use it if I'm not planning on using the augment. It's my usual subsume slot.

No such thing as consistency around these parts. Not when grineer buttfaces can get a whiff of my Bramma's fart behind walls but somehow can't get their dentures ripped apart when an explosion just as large is hidden behind a random crate prop that I hit using the Tombfinger primary kitgun.

Polarize truly holds no value whatsoever. Having anything under 150% duration makes this ability utterly worthless, as it won't be hitting anything by the time that it ends, and even if it did, what did those 75 energy bring you? Your shields being half refilled? Enemies being partially armor stripped? Shards that won't be useful outside of a Magnetize bubble? Like, that's fine and dandy, but I could spend an extra 25 to fully strip armor, get to the overshields cap for myself and every ally in range, have enemies cc'd, deal a decent amount of damage to all of them simultaneously, and all of that in a larger AoE on your average Mag build, with the only trade off being sloting an augment mod. And well, shards aren't even needed in the first place, because Magnetize really only needs you to shoot whatever gun you have in the big circle. You just sub it off for things like Nourish, Breach Surge and Roar, to name a few and whatever you put there does the job better. Even something as dumb as Decoy is a better tool, as you're forcing all enemies to shoot at it while you can just have it stand behind Magnetize bubble traps, ramping up their damage and dealing some to whatever enemy is already stuck in there. Shooting Gallery is a better gun jammer too.

[BansheeAndZephyrMarried]

Mag and the old farming meta around Mag- and Excalibur to some degree- are the main culprits that caused DE to put LOS restrictions on abilities in the first place. If it were any other frame I'd say there's a good chance with enough reminders and prodding. But DE has always been weird with Mag. I also wish they'd go over the LOS inconsistencies, busy tilesets and geometries though. 

[Probably_Asleep]

On 2023-10-07 at 5:14 PM, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

No such thing as consistency around these parts. Not when grineer buttfaces can get a whiff of my Bramma's fart behind walls but somehow can't get their dentures ripped apart when an explosion just as large is hidden behind a random crate prop that I hit using the Tombfinger primary kitgun.

Polarize truly holds no value whatsoever. Having anything under 150% duration makes this ability utterly worthless, as it won't be hitting anything by the time that it ends, and even if it did, what did those 75 energy bring you? Your shields being half refilled? Enemies being partially armor stripped? Shards that won't be useful outside of a Magnetize bubble? Like, that's fine and dandy, but I could spend an extra 25 to fully strip armor, get to the overshields cap for myself and every ally in range, have enemies cc'd, deal a decent amount of damage to all of them simultaneously, and all of that in a larger AoE on your average Mag build, with the only trade off being sloting an augment mod. And well, shards aren't even needed in the first place, because Magnetize really only needs you to shoot whatever gun you have in the big circle. You just sub it off for things like Nourish, Breach Surge and Roar, to name a few and whatever you put there does the job better. Even something as dumb as Decoy is a better tool, as you're forcing all enemies to shoot at it while you can just have it stand behind Magnetize bubble traps, ramping up their damage and dealing some to whatever enemy is already stuck in there. Shooting Gallery is a better gun jammer too.

LOL to Putting "buttfaces," "whiff," and "dentures" in the same sentence.

Polarize does seem like the 2nd worst ability that Mag has (her 1st being her Passive ability). The Augment for it is, in my opinion, one of if not the best CC in the game. It disables all enemies that matter (melee enemies don't matter) and can even lock down Eximus. But it has the same problem that all Augmented abilities have: It's an Augment. I think at the very least Augment Mods should have some generic benefit for the Warframe so that it's not quite taking up a valuable Mod Slot. Something like +30% Range or +15% Efficiency, less than a dedicated Mod but at least something. And to your point, there's a subsume that can jam weapons without a Mod.

But yeah Polarize without the Augment needs some love. It's a nice Shield Gate, but only with a Dragon Key equipped. (And later this month that means that this ability will lose even more of it's utility because it will take yet another Mod Slot to retain it's usefulness) The Shrapnel it causes doesn't do enough damage unless you're juicing it with Duviri Decrees, and it discourages bright-colored energy because the shrapnel likes to hover right in from of the camera.

That's why I'd love it Polarize did something useful like help you generate energy. If every Shrapnel Shard you picked up gave you 5 energy, then it would be a great ability in dense crowds. Or if Polarize added +1% (Affected by Ability Strength) additional vulnerability to Magnetic damage for every energy point spent (maxing at +325%, same as Viral proc), that then would actually encourage low-efficiency builds. (It would actually just hit it's cap if you used a fully ranked Blind Rage and no efficiency Mods) That would be an amazing effect that could get Mag's Crush ability above 10k damage (over 20k with Arcane and all the Strength Mods). That obviously wouldn't let you level cap, but it would let you nuke non-Eximus enemies in ESO rooms.

[Probably_Asleep]

17 hours ago, BansheeAndZephyrMarried said:

Mag and the old farming meta around Mag- and Excalibur to some degree- are the main culprits that caused DE to put LOS restrictions on abilities in the first place. If it were any other frame I'd say there's a good chance with enough reminders and prodding. But DE has always been weird with Mag. I also wish they'd go over the LOS inconsistencies, busy tilesets and geometries though. 

I do kind of worry they'll swing the other way and say LOS is a requirement for all wide-area attacks. I'd be public enemy #1 if they ended up saying: "You're right! Saryn nukes while Mag cannot... let's make sure Saryn cannot nuke anymore..."

You hit the nail on the head saying DE has always been weird with Mag. It's noticeable. It feels like Excalibur gets honored as the firstborn, Volt gets spoiled as the baby, but Mag's just the unwanted middle child.

Mag: "Please Papa, I'm thirsty for energy, and enemies keep hurting me."

DE: "Silence! We gave the cheap energy-cost to your brother Volt. And you should be like your brother Excalibur and fight enemies head-on. Now go clean the house with your weak version of Vacuum."

Mag: "Can you at least make my abilities work as designed? Pull can't group more than ten enemies, Magnetize has such a small base radius, Polarize hardly strips any armor or shields, and Crush won't scale."

DE: "They ARE working as designed! LOL! Here..." (throws a few trinkets on the ground) "...take these Augments and stop bothering me."

Mag: "Fine, I'll do things my way from now on..."

(I don't know why, but it felt right to turn that into an anti-hero origin story. Maybe I've read too many "Kicked out of the Hero's Party" Mangas lately.)

[Probably_Asleep]

Does anyone know if the new Incarnons might be able to help with this?

I haven't played a lot with the "bouncing" weapons, but I'm wondering if there are any weapons that would excel in something like the Kuva Fortess. For example:

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(Not sure how that's going to actually show up to other people but...)

For a tileset with tight corridors, has anyone found a weapon that can be shot into multiple paths from an intersection? Because something like that might solve the Kuva Fortress problem without having to rely on punch-through AoE attacks.

[Probably_Asleep]

This week is pretty nice. I'm not sure if our ESO lineups are uniform across all accounts, but my 8 zones are:

• Zone 1
  • Uranus Underwater Facility
  • Grineer
• Zone 2
  • Earth Forest Base
  • Corrupted
• Zone 3
  • Lua Lounge
  • Corpus
• Zone 4
  • Eris Infested Corpus Ship
  • Infested
• Zone 5
  • Jupiter Hangar
  • Grineer
• Zone 6
  • Mercury Asteroid Mining Facility
  • Corrupted
• Zone 7
  • Venus Corpus Ship
  • Infested
• Zone 8
  • Europa Crash Site
  • Grineer

(I'm just guessing on what these tilesets are named) And this lineup is perfect! I can tell there is room for improvement on the way I parkour around these different areas. There are build-choices like "survivability vs. lethality" and "visibility vs. mobility" that have a significant impact on my effectiveness. And finally I'm starting to see that there's a hidden (possibly unintended) mechanic of pacing and coverage. (In some rounds I actually get higher effeciency by moving slower, almost like there's a way to influence the spawn frequency and location) It's fun with this lineup.

So what I'm getting from this is that I'll have to just go really heavy on ESO when the week has a fun lineup, and don't even both wasting my time when it's got a bad lineup.

 

But you know what would make it fun every week? A small advantage that just pushes Mag's lethality forward by a small margin. You know, something that makes it possible to get past Zone 8 with the right build and skill even if there's a tileset that hides enemies across a wide area and inside many tiny hideaways. Something like, oh, say...

 

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

On 2023-10-07 at 8:10 PM, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

• Have Mag's Pull (when held) continue to pull enemies into her vortex, and have the enemies get teleported directly to her
• Make Mag's Crush ability deal the displayed attack value per hit rather than the 3 hits totaling that amount ("1500" actually is 500x3 right now)

have pull crush enemies against the wall

And crush not being 1500 per hit, i can see why its not doing damage now which means that it should be increased to 800x3

On 2023-10-07 at 8:10 PM, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

• Increase the Enemy Spawn Rate to the same level as a 4-member squad even for solo players
• Instruct the enemy AI to always be approaching the player rather than just chilling in their hidden crevasses

Straight up solves Simaris ESO for every frame and weapon

And with spectres it would solve being dead in 4 seconds

[Probably_Asleep]

17 hours ago, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

have pull crush enemies against the wall

And crush not being 1500 per hit, i can see why its not doing damage now which means that it should be increased to 800x3

It would be cool to see pull do tumble damage. I think it's only fair considering we get damaged when we run into things with our Archwings. (And Warframes lose no HP when they're literally shot through the metal hull of a spacefaring vessel, so something tells me a Grineer soldier should be less durable)

Yeah the Crush damage stat had me confused; it's misleading.

17 hours ago, (XBOX)Mastermitchel89 said:

Straight up solves Simaris ESO for every frame and weapon

And with spectres it would solve being dead in 4 seconds

I agree, this would probably be the easiest thing for them to modify as well.

And this actually makes a lot of sense now that I think about it! ESO needs more enemies for smaller squads based on the objective of the mission. I get that lower spawn rates is a courtesy for solo players in missions like Exterminate and Defense. But that courtesy ends up being a disservice in this case.

[Xaero]

On 2023-10-07 at 1:10 PM, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

Why should any?

None should. It's just that the game doesn't apply universal rules to system implenetations for some reason. Take damage buffs for example. Some abilities like Eclipse or Roar apply multiplicative damage buffs, while Vex Armor applies additively.

Honestly, it feels like warframe ability kits aren't designed by the same single team, but rather by different individuals. And these individuals have vastly different visions on how to balance things.

[Probably_Asleep]

8 hours ago, Xaero said:

None should. It's just that the game doesn't apply universal rules to system implenetations for some reason. Take damage buffs for example. Some abilities like Eclipse or Roar apply multiplicative damage buffs, while Vex Armor applies additively.

Honestly, it feels like warframe ability kits aren't designed by the same single team, but rather by different individuals. And these individuals have vastly different visions on how to balance things.

I've wondered about this! I'd really like to be able to dig through their source code. There are so many similar systems with such different behaviors that it's likely to be a patchwork quilt of independent scripts all sewn on top of the core game engine. I think it's a miracle it works at all.

[Qriist]

10 hours ago, Xaero said:

None should. It's just that the game doesn't apply universal rules to system implenetations for some reason. Take damage buffs for example. Some abilities like Eclipse or Roar apply multiplicative damage buffs, while Vex Armor applies additively.

It's even wilder than that.

Eclipse does the standard +X% damage you'd expect, but Roar is faction damage so that's computed differently.

Eclipse is much better for upfront damage if you're in moderate-to-full light but Roar is almost always better for status procs due to faction bonuses getting squared in that formula.  

On 2023-07-10 at 11:47 AM, Qriist said:

I did a bunch of reading and realized my intuitive sense of how the faction mods affected DOT was wrong. Mainly, I thought the DOT was based primarily on the total incoming damage (pre-any reduction), but it's instead based on a more narrow subset of variables.

This combined with the squaring you pointed out makes Banes a much larger portion of DOT ticks than I previously understood them to be. Focusing on Slash:

I looked at the Bleed formula and found an example that helped a lot when figuring out how to apply the variables.

AFAIK, Roar is the only source of non-mod faction damage, and this is not communicated anywhere in the game. For that matter, it's never explained in the game why +faction makes status procs hit so hard.

 

BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE INCONSISTENCIES

One of our very few ways of gaining additional status damage is the polearm mod Boreal's Contempt.

Turns out, it's bugged to give only half its bonus, and also happens to work with absolutely no melee-based statstick abilities except one random ranged ability (Atlas' thrown boulders).

 

I even verified the bugged damage myself:

On 2023-07-10 at 2:44 AM, Qriist said:

I tested Orthos Prime (umodded base damage = 234) modded with Melee Prowess plus one of the following scenarios.

  ("unverified" means I don't own the mod at that rank but it should math out based on testing the things I do have.)

Scenario 1: (Melee Prowess alone) verified

• calculated base: 234
• displayed base: 234
• calculated Bleed: 81.9
• displayed Bleed: 829

 

Scenario 6: R5 Boreal's Contempt (+90% Melee Damage, +30% Damage from Status Effects, actual current state) verified

• calculated base: 444.6
• displayed base: 444.6
• calculated Bleed: 202.293
• displayed Bleed: 203

 

Scenario 7: R5 Boreal's Contempt (+90% Melee Damage, +60% Damage from Status Effects, requires bug fix) unverified

• calculated base: 444.6
• displayed base: 444.6
• calculated Bleed: 248.976

 

1 hour ago, (NSW)Probably_Asleep said:

I've wondered about this! I'd really like to be able to dig through their source code. There are so many similar systems with such different behaviors that it's likely to be a patchwork quilt of independent scripts all sewn on top of the core game engine. I think it's a miracle it works at all.

There's a tale about the development of Final Fantasy VII that basically says the SquareSoft devs weren't quite sure why the game engine was able to boot, just that it did. Therefore, the story goes, the game shipped with a bunch of bugs because they were too afraid of making any change that might topple their digital house of cards right before launch.

I don't know if that story is true or not, but Warframe definitely gives me that same vibe sometimes.

[Probably_Asleep]

4 hours ago, Qriist said:

It's even wilder than that.

Eclipse does the standard +X% damage you'd expect, but Roar is faction damage so that's computed differently.

Eclipse is much better for upfront damage if you're in moderate-to-full light but Roar is almost always better for status procs due to faction bonuses getting squared in that formula.  

AFAIK, Roar is the only source of non-mod faction damage, and this is not communicated anywhere in the game. For that matter, it's never explained in the game why +faction makes status procs hit so hard.

 

BUT WAIT THERE'S MORE INCONSISTENCIES

One of our very few ways of gaining additional status damage is the polearm mod Boreal's Contempt.

Turns out, it's bugged to give only half its bonus, and also happens to work with absolutely no melee-based statstick abilities except one random ranged ability (Atlas' thrown boulders).

 

I even verified the bugged damage myself:

 

There's a tale about the development of Final Fantasy VII that basically says the SquareSoft devs weren't quite sure why the game engine was able to boot, just that it did. Therefore, the story goes, the game shipped with a bunch of bugs because they were too afraid of making any change that might topple their digital house of cards right before launch.

I don't know if that story is true or not, but Warframe definitely gives me that same vibe sometimes.

Nice Mathing!

I forget exactly what it was, but I remember figuring out something with Glaive Prime's bleed procs not being affected by something and thinking it was counter-intuitive. (Let me check my account and see if I can remember... well it looks like I don't have Buzz Kill, Power Throw, or elemental damage so it could be any of those)

There was also this testing I did with Sibear (trying to make it useful somehow) and the most damage I could get out of it was with the Parry mod. In testing though the math suggested that Pressure Point didn't actually affect the Finisher Damage.

It's conundrums like these that led me to want a room dedicated to exposing the hidden mechanics behind damage, armor, speed and so on:

 

Your Final Fantasy VII story was so funny! I have to admit that I relate to that a little. I try really hard not to let my code be that bad now, but there are some old projects that fill me with absolute terror at my job. If something ever goes wrong with them then I'm going to have to just scrap everything and rebuild it from scratch. I'm 100% confident that it would take me longer to understand the existing code than it would to rewrite it all.

One thing that does impress me about Warframe is how unintentionally educational it is. School tries to teach math to students, and very few actually like it enough to learn it well. Warframe on the other hand hides mechanics behind math, and suddenly players are becoming mathematical detectives to expose and exploit those mechanics. I bet parents would actually be happy to hear just how much thought, research, and creativity Warframe encourages in its playerbase.