The hidden elephants in the room

[(XBOX)Sariyajin v]

30 minutes ago, VibingCat said:

I fully agree with you about the infested, in that case for sure Revenant is the best choice due to the poor game design that makes this faction the most deadly at high levels. However, in every other case, shield gating, Rolling Guard and Vazarin are just enough to make Rhino a top tier choice, he's in fact the only warframe I've done a solo level cap in steel path so far (Laomedeia neo disruption with no deaths, it was fun if you ask). It didn't matter how many millions overguard I'd get, any amount of that would get wiped out in seconds or even less, nonetheless it was doable nonetheless, and Revenant would've been weaker. Maybe it's an extreme example, but you mentioned level cap first.

 

The thing is say you’re in a disruption. You get hit by energy drain. At level 1k your energy is gone in seconds even from full. You can’t keep spamming iron skin. Now you need Vazarin. Which means you can’t run Unairu for the armour stripping. As Revenant you’d have already pressed 2, zoomed off, killed the demolisher and not broken a sweat. Rhino is a good frame for sure but he doesn’t have that pig easy flexibility. Yes it’s true his roar is better but a normal Vectis without rivens can do a million bleed with a good build and that is an Mr1 weapon without a riven.  So the convenience makes Rev 10x more appealing. I also forgot to add that unlike rhino, Mesmer skin’s augment turns Rev into the ultimate support ad well, since allies in affinity range get the stacks too. He basically made Trin and Wisp redundant as support frames . It’s all FAR too much for our frame ti have. Damage, survivability, support. He can also blind enemies with the Reeve augment (big melee stealth bonuses) and get extra primary damage with thrall pact. All while immortal. The more you look into what he can do the more ridiculous it gets. 

[VibingCat]

8 hours ago, (XBOX)Sariyajin v said:

The thing is say you’re in a disruption. You get hit by energy drain. At level 1k your energy is gone in seconds even from full. You can’t keep spamming iron skin. Now you need Vazarin. Which means you can’t run Unairu for the armour stripping. As Revenant you’d have already pressed 2, zoomed off, killed the demolisher and not broken a sweat. Rhino is a good frame for sure but he doesn’t have that pig easy flexibility. Yes it’s true his roar is better but a normal Vectis without rivens can do a million bleed with a good build and that is an Mr1 weapon without a riven.  So the convenience makes Rev 10x more appealing. I also forgot to add that unlike rhino, Mesmer skin’s augment turns Rev into the ultimate support ad well, since allies in affinity range get the stacks too. He basically made Trin and Wisp redundant as support frames . It’s all FAR too much for our frame ti have. Damage, survivability, support. He can also blind enemies with the Reeve augment (big melee stealth bonuses) and get extra primary damage with thrall pact. All while immortal. The more you look into what he can do the more ridiculous it gets. 

The energy-drain scenario you described is so rare that I didn't face it in 46 rounds, not even in my other level caps with a few exceptions, actually sometimes it's bugged and energy doesn't drain at all lol. After all, I only need to win one conduit per round, although I enjoy winning all of them (unless I forget one), therefore there's no way I can fail all of them consecutively. In the most unlucky case ever, I'd call my crewmate and go on. When it comes to stripping defences, Unairu is just a Tharros Strike with extra steps. I absolutely can spam Iron Skin without running out of energy, thanks to Energize, Equilibrium and Arcane Steadfast, and then there's Vazarin of course.

I'm not saying Revenant is bad, for sure he isn't. He simply doesn't do much and I think his gameplay is for lazy or inexperienced minds.

[AsffluffyZ]

The notion of support frames losing their place in the game due to a few seconds of invulnerability is misleading. Trinity provides energy, Dr, status immunity, and health and shield restoration over a massive area. Wisp increases action speed, gives cc, and increases health with massive healing. A few seconds of invulnerability do not inundate the support other frames provide. Also certain warframes get trolled by having invulnerability such as chroma.

What it comes down to is whether some thing is the right tool for the right job, and how effective it is compared to similar tools.

[(XBOX)Sariyajin v]

14 hours ago, AsffluffyZ said:

The notion of support frames losing their place in the game due to a few seconds of invulnerability is misleading. Trinity provides energy, Dr, status immunity, and health and shield restoration over a massive area. Wisp increases action speed, gives cc, and increases health with massive healing. A few seconds of invulnerability do not inundate the support other frames provide. Also certain warframes get trolled by having invulnerability such as chroma.

What it comes down to is whether some thing is the right tool for the right job, and how effective it is compared to similar tools.

A few seconds of invulnerability? If you’re with in affinity range you get the benefit of all the stacks Revenant initially has when he casts the ability. There is a 1 second gate between them decaying no matter how many bullets hit you. He can quite literally keep you alive indefinitely whereas Wisp and Trinity will fall off harshly as the levels climb. 

[(XBOX)Sariyajin v]

14 hours ago, AsffluffyZ said:

The notion of support frames losing their place in the game due to a few seconds of invulnerability is misleading. Trinity provides energy, Dr, status immunity, and health and shield restoration over a massive area. Wisp increases action speed, gives cc, and increases health with massive healing. A few seconds of invulnerability do not inundate the support other frames provide. Also certain warframes get trolled by having invulnerability such as chroma.

What it comes down to is whether some thing is the right tool for the right job, and how effective it is compared to similar tools.

14 hours ago, AsffluffyZ said:

The notion of support frames losing their place in the game due to a few seconds of invulnerability is misleading. Trinity provides energy, Dr, status immunity, and health and shield restoration over a massive area. Wisp increases action speed, gives cc, and increases health with massive healing. A few seconds of invulnerability do not inundate the support other frames provide. Also certain warframes get trolled by having invulnerability such as chroma.

What it comes down to is whether some thing is the right tool for the right job, and how effective it is compared to similar tools.

I get hit by energy drain back to back sometimes. It’s happened to me on #4 then again on conduit #1 of the next round. Very common. You are very fortunate to have never seen it in your 46 round run. The drain scales as the levels climb. After around 20 rounds an 800 odd energy pool is gone in a few seconds 

[AsffluffyZ]

8 hours ago, (XBOX)Sariyajin v said:

A few seconds of invulnerability? If you’re with in affinity range you get the benefit of all the stacks Revenant initially has when he casts the ability. There is a 1 second gate between them decaying no matter how many bullets hit you. He can quite literally keep you alive indefinitely whereas Wisp and Trinity will fall off harshly as the levels climb. 

Your telling me you play revenant to spam mesmer skin every five seconds to keep your teammates alive? And that that's better than Trinity who's 4 resets shieldgating and more? Wisp cc's enemies along with healing, if you end up dying at that point you are not making the most of the frame's abilities. If you want changes to be made to a Warframe explain how that Warframe affects it's own gameplay not how it affects or interacts with the existence of other. 

[(XBOX)Sariyajin v]

10 hours ago, AsffluffyZ said:

Your telling me you play revenant to spam mesmer skin every five seconds to keep your teammates alive? And that that's better than Trinity who's 4 resets shieldgating and more? Wisp cc's enemies along with healing, if you end up dying at that point you are not making the most of the frame's abilities. If you want changes to be made to a Warframe explain how that Warframe affects it's own gameplay not how it affects or interacts with the existence of other. 

It’s not every 5 seconds. You cast it once. They get whatever charges you would have. That’s north of 30 seconds on a typical build. So no spamming needed at all.  Wisp’s healing is irrelevant when you don’t take damage at all. Shield gating also becomes a non issue. Energy is easy to get, equilibrium with synth deconstruct will give enormous amounts of energy not even including Dethcube’s augment. Sentinels were are immortal now so you can’t say it’s unreliable. Revenant makes anyone in affinity range at the time of casting immune to all enemy damage. And it lasts for upwards of half a minute, not a few seconds like you’re claiming. You’d need an almost unmodded Revenant for it to be that bad. It used affinity range much like Trinity’s blessing but does the job 1000x better. The two aren’t even comparable. 

[(XBOX)Sariyajin v]

I don’t think anyone plays Revenant with the aim of being support, but he absolutely excels at keeping team mates alive. I remember reading the hype when Mesmer Shield was announced, people couldn’t believe what it would do. So yes it is that good. I’ve done disruption with a Revenant in my squad. If you don’t want Revenant nerfed that’s fine, just say so. Don’t try and pretend he’s less capable than he actually is because it’s plz don’t nerf Wukong all over again 

[t3nka_XL]

vor 1 Stunde schrieb (XBOX)Sariyajin v:

It’s not every 5 seconds. You cast it once. They get whatever charges you would have. That’s north of 30 seconds on a typical build. So no spamming needed at all. 

please no false information.
 
if you don't like revenant, don't play him.

[Qriist]

On 2023-11-19 at 7:41 PM, (XBOX)Sariyajin v said:

Why use Nezha when I’d have to literally spam the ability?

It's pretty obvious you don't know how to make effective use of Nezha. I'd take Nez over Revenant any day.

[(XBOX)Sariyajin v]

1 hour ago, t3nka_XL said:

please no false information.
 
if you don't like revenant, don't play him.

Last I checked that second part wasn’t on there. so I made a mistake on one issue. Everything else I have said still stands. He’s overpowered and needs to be nerfed in line with other frames. 

[(XBOX)Sariyajin v]

1 hour ago, Qriist said:

It's pretty obvious you don't know how to make effective use of Nezha. I'd take Nez over Revenant any day.

I actually do know how to play Nezha. But if what I said wasn’t true why is he now vastly less popular? It’s no coincidence. People were running him because he was an easy tank but the day Revenant got buffed through the roof many people switched. Peak numbers are NOT the same as having so much ease of use with plentifully adequate damage that there’s no point in using anything else. they’ll both one shot the level cap. The difference is it’s vastly less effort to survive at any level with Revenant. You can get up walk out the room get a sandwich and a coffee, coke back and Rev will be just fine unless Violence spawns or he gets nullified. Try that with any other frame and you’ll be dead in seconds 

[Qriist]

6 minutes ago, (XBOX)Sariyajin v said:

Everything else I have said still stands. He’s overpowered and needs to be nerfed in line with other frames. 

Nah. Rev is pretty lackluster overall. If anything, his kit is underpowered. 

[(XBOX)Sariyajin v]

That’s gotta be the funniest thing I’ve ever heard. Dull? Absolutely. Trivialises the game? Definitely. Maybe part of that is because of Helminth and a few weapons having multiplicative condition overload scaling but that doesn’t change the fact he can do almost anything any other frame can do with a fraction of the effort. He has THE best survivability of any frame by an enormous margin. And he can OHK level cap enemies with his reeve anyway. 

[Silligoose]

On 2023-11-20 at 2:41 AM, (XBOX)Sariyajin v said:

Hello I don’t post here very often but I have some concerns I want to raise awareness of regarding Warframe balance. 
 

First of all I understand many people have favourite frames whether it’s for utility, damage or fashion and they may be severely opposed to them being changed in any way, whether it’s a nerf or results in a net buff. 
 

So my first gripe here is Revenant. This frame was given a frankly absurd buff in response to the (in my opinion) poorly thought through eximus rework. Unlike every other frame, Revenant gains TOTAL immortality with a click of a single button. The period of this immortality scales off of strength rather than duration which further feeds into what every Revenant is built for - power strength to gain enormous damage buffs from the Helminth system.

 

Tell me why I should play Rhino when I have to mess around with Magus Anomaly, Iron Clad Charge and Arcane Tanker. Why should I bother with that when I could press 2 with Revenant and get the same results? It’s not like Revenant can’t use Roar either. So why bother playing Rhino? Why use Nezha when I’d have to literally spam the ability? This is totally inconvenient in energy drain disruption conduits. Meanwhile Revenant presses 2 and can go make a sandwich or drink coffee for 30 odd seconds with absolutely no consequences. The only way he will ever die is if Violence manages to nully him in a level 3000+ energy drain conduit.
 

Then other frames get nerfed. Why bother nerfing frames for being too strong/“not working as intended” when this is allowed to exist? There is no reason to “balance” other frames as long as Revenant completely destroys any semblance of the idea existing in the game. 
 

 

 

Next we have Ash. Ash. The “bad” frame who can make literally any weapon capable of proccing slash into a one hit level cap killer. Who also has the benefit of pseudo immortality through his invisibility. 
 

Ash, the only frame who can make use of arcane trickery consistently. Ash, the only frame who can proc bleed on Misery’s Shadows of Violence and Angst. Ash, the only frame who was capable of making Marked For Death strong. Ash, the only frame who has multiplicative condition overload on his recently buffed pseudo exalted 4 that easily hits damage cap numbers - making Khora’s infamous whip look like an MK1 Bo. Ash, the only frame whose passive is a separate multiplier to the most sought after damage over time in the game by a huge margin. Top it off the augment for his smoke screen gives extra crit. Really? REALLY? I don’t think there’s anything more to say there.  
 

Is this all not a little ridiculous to have in one frame? I could understand him being insanely powerful if he was a glass cannon but he’s not. He can remain invisible indefinitely. There is a reason he is used in almost every level cap run, especially solo. His only competitor is Revenant who I have already covered. 
 

Then we have Volt. This guy is really cool and can be fun to play. But his combination of damage and utility is simply too much. He’s meta for eidolons to the point where people will get angry if you don’t want to play him in a squad. He’s meta for profit taker. He’s meta for elite sanctuary onslaught. He’s meta for plague star. He’s meta for relic running. 
 

Let’s analyse why.

 

1) his shields are a massive critical damage multiplier and buff operators. 

2) his speed gives him the most sought after utility in the game for most content. 

3) he can slot eclipse and basically become a better Mirage/Chroma. Top it all off his base stats are quite tanky and he can easily survive most boss fights with very little investment, all you need is to Helminth on Eclipse and you’ve got the ultimate boss killing speed runner who can also zoom through any other content you happen to encounter. People don’t even bother using his shields to dps, not even before the focus school rework with the Zariman update. 
 

So all this being said I would like to explain the root causes of the problems at hand. 
 

For Revenant I am not sure how to resolve his Mesmer Skin being too strong but ultimately it’s because DE decided that eximus needed to get completely immune to crowd control. That’s THE root cause of what he has become. 
 

Ash needs a total nerf. Half the problem here is invisibility being too strong on any frame. But the fact he can use it and have access to all that damage is unreasonable. His 4 needs to be toned down and it may be that DE need to reconsider the wisdom of allowing infinitely scaling tanks and invisible frames to have access to multiplicative damage buffs like Roar and Eclipsr or Xata. Which feeds into Volt. 
 

Volt was meta for a lot of stuff for a long time but when he became capable of using eclipse he more or less made every other frame redundant for most content. The problem i identity here is once again primarily with Helminth. Also the fact he is the only way to buff operators. Either allow other frames/companions to buff them or remove his privilege, he’s got enough utility and damage as it is already. 
 

My apologies for the huge wall of text but I feel it needed to be said. Now before people say “but then everyone will use Wisp (or insert other invisible frame)” I know there will be a mass emigration to the next best  thing but that’ll still be an improvement because these next best things are vastly less OP than the current meta, hence why they are less popular at the moment. 
 

I hope you all have a great day and have good RNG :P

While I agree with the sentiment of the post and would like for Warframe to have better balance in terms of players power vs enemy power, as well as for frames to be more in line with one another in terms of power, the sad truth is that DE seems neither interested in, nor capable of, balancing in this way.

The tenets by which they balance are:

• An asset being too popular: They use the term "dominant", but give context that they mean dominant in terms of use, not asset power. DE nerfs assets that are too popular for their liking, since it impacts sales. 
• An asset being disruptive: When something affects the gameplay of other players, DE would look to nerf it, sometimes. 
• An asset allowing for to great an amount of automation

Actual power, specifically the upper limits of performance of different assets and the options tied to them, just doesn't seem to matter much to them. Every now and then they'll try to address something with some sort of band-aid like Damage Attenuation and fail, or Overguard and make the game less tactically diverse and worse overall, and then they give up.

[(XBOX)Mastermitchel89]

On 2023-11-20 at 7:31 PM, (XBOX)Sariyajin v said:

1) nerf Mesmer Skin to not be a brainless immortality. Make the player earn the immunity in some way or give it a cool-down. 

90% Damage Reduction to shields and becomes immune to toxic,  Shield delay 2x or something

Status effects now chip into it / Removes a percent of shields while ability is active

When shields break 30 sec cooldown

Eidolon OP but not godly enough to just use strength mods

Then the succ drywall ability can lower cooldown or share for remainder ie when cutoff, of the ability

On 2023-11-20 at 7:31 PM, (XBOX)Sariyajin v said:

2) nerf/change invisibility to not be an alternative pseudo immortality alternative to Mesmer Skin. 

Oblivion Chameleon

[Qriist]

21 minutes ago, (XBOX)Sariyajin v said:

He has THE best survivability of any frame by an enormous margin.

Nah Rev's "survivability" is a noob trap. It doesn't teach you how to play the game. The amount of dead Revs I see in missions (of any level) is consistently far higher than I'd expect to given rhetoric like yours. 

I'll reiterate my earlier point where I determined you don't know how to play Nezha because you declared a need to spam his shield: my Warding Halo rarely needs to be cast more than a handful of times over an hour of SP Kuva Survival or SP Circuit. The same cannot be said of Mesmer Shield. 

[(XBOX)Sariyajin v]

2 minutes ago, Silligoose said:

While I agree with the sentiment of the post and would like for Warframe to have better balance in terms of players power vs enemy power, as well as for frames to be more in line with one another in terms of power, the sad truth is that DE seems neither interested in, nor capable of, balancing in this way.

The tenets by which they balance are:

• An asset being too popular: They use the term "dominant", but give context that they mean dominant in terms of use, not asset power. DE nerfs assets that are too popular for their liking, since it impacts sales. 
• An asset being disruptive: When something affects the gameplay of other players, DE would look to nerf it, sometimes. 
• An asset allowing for to great an amount of automation

Actual power, specifically the upper limits of performance of different assets and the options tied to them, just doesn't seem to matter much to them. Every now and then they'll try to address something with some sort of band-aid like Damage Attenuation and fail, or Overguard and make the game less tactically diverse and worse overall, and then they give up.

Yeah I noticed. There’s some pretty crazy stuff DE haven’t yet nerfed. And other things they squashed that were pretty petty imo. Styanax is probably one of the most undeserved nerfs I’ve seen. Then they gave him that augment but I don’t have an issue with that as it’s a pretty locked cycle as far as I understand. Something you have to really work for. I for one can’t be doing with stuff like Arachne to scale up the damage. And again I don’t think it works against bosses either. 
 

They nerfed glaives pretty harshly but there was really only one outlier that was an issue. Maybe two. Glaive prime forced slash and Cerata forced toxin. Both weapons are kinda weak on their own but when you add stealth multipliers and roar/eclipse + armour stripping they can still do millions. I still think the others were hit far too hard. 
 

id like to emphasise that power is great but it should require some kind of effort or trade off. Currently there are no trade offs to having an invisible frame and there’s zero risk of dying while playing rev unless you get nullified in an energy drain conduit or have a spot of diarrhoea halfway through the mission - all the while having more than enough damage to kill anything you see in one or two hits. 

[(XBOX)Sariyajin v]

4 minutes ago, Qriist said:

Nah Rev's "survivability" is a noob trap. It doesn't teach you how to play the game. The amount of dead Revs I see in missions (of any level) is consistently far higher than I'd expect to given rhetoric like yours. 

I'll reiterate my earlier point where I determined you don't know how to play Nezha because you declared a need to spam his shield: my Warding Halo rarely needs to be cast more than a handful of times over an hour of SP Kuva Survival or SP Circuit. The same cannot be said of Mesmer Shield. 

Funny, because I know how to take Nezha to level 9999 disruption. Which takes around 3.5h solo. You can chop an hour off that if you play with friends. So not really a case of playing all day. Circuit also exists which scales very quickly. 
 

most people who seek strong enemies will play either disruption, circuit or the Zariman mission (forgot the name but it has the purifier thingies iirc) as you can find very high level enemies in a moderately reasonable time frame. Survival isnt a very good standard, if I’m honest. 
 

again, Revenant is one of the most common frames for a reason. The poor guys dying probably don’t know about stuff like equilibrium and sentinels. It takes a 5 minute search on YouTube to find a practically fail proof build for him. The likes of rhino and Nezha require some kind of effort and investment. All you need for Rev is max your strength and use the augment then press 2 occasionally. Done. 

[Silligoose]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)Sariyajin v said:

Yeah I noticed. There’s some pretty crazy stuff DE haven’t yet nerfed. And other things they squashed that were pretty petty imo. Styanax is probably one of the most undeserved nerfs I’ve seen. Then they gave him that augment but I don’t have an issue with that as it’s a pretty locked cycle as far as I understand. Something you have to really work for. I for one can’t be doing with stuff like Arachne to scale up the damage. And again I don’t think it works against bosses either. 
 

They nerfed glaives pretty harshly but there was really only one outlier that was an issue. Maybe two. Glaive prime forced slash and Cerata forced toxin. Both weapons are kinda weak on their own but when you add stealth multipliers and roar/eclipse + armour stripping they can still do millions. I still think the others were hit far too hard. 
 

id like to emphasise that power is great but it should require some kind of effort or trade off. Currently there are no trade offs to having an invisible frame and there’s zero risk of dying while playing rev unless you get nullified in an energy drain conduit or have a spot of diarrhoea halfway through the mission - all the while having more than enough damage to kill anything you see in one or two hits. 

I don't understand some of their balancing decisions either tbh, which I suppose reiterates your OP

 

. Blanket nerfing a category instead of specific outlier in exceptional performance seems to be something DE does every now and then, as corner-cutting seems to be part of their modus operandi.

I also agree it tends to be better if power requires some sort of effort and/or trade-off. Removing self-damage via radial AoE damage with self-stagger, then giving an option to be immune to self-stagger, is a clear example of how imbalanced a mechanic can become when a trade-off is removed. Sadly the design lead said something along the lines of "in retrospect we can see how much self-damage did to balance radial AoE", which is baffling - people were saying even before the change that would be the result, but the people who get paid for these balance changes couldn't see it, couldn't be bothered to test it and gameplay regressed overall as a result. Again though, this isn't a "normal" game, but freemium game in which one can buy power, with all the caveats that go with that.

1 hour ago, Qriist said:

my Warding Halo rarely needs to be cast more than a handful of times over an hour of SP Kuva Survival or SP Circuit. The same cannot be said of Mesmer Shield. 

Of course it can, unless you don't know how to play Rev. Try using the synergies within his kit and moving around.

[(XBOX)Sariyajin v]

10 hours ago, Silligoose said:

I don't understand some of their balancing decisions either tbh, which I suppose reiterates your OP

 

. Blanket nerfing a category instead of specific outlier in exceptional performance seems to be something DE does every now and then, as corner-cutting seems to be part of their modus operandi.

I also agree it tends to be better if power requires some sort of effort and/or trade-off. Removing self-damage via radial AoE damage with self-stagger, then giving an option to be immune to self-stagger, is a clear example of how imbalanced a mechanic can become when a trade-off is removed. Sadly the design lead said something along the lines of "in retrospect we can see how much self-damage did to balance radial AoE", which is baffling - people were saying even before the change that would be the result, but the people who get paid for these balance changes couldn't see it, couldn't be bothered to test it and gameplay regressed overall as a result. Again though, this isn't a "normal" game, but freemium game in which one can buy power, with all the caveats that go with that.

Of course it can, unless you don't know how to play Rev. Try using the synergies within his kit and moving around.

Yep I used to have to use cautious shot on my Ogris then I got PSF and I switched to ammo mutation. So I rarely ever run out of ammo now. Still I do think Pablo is a bit more balanced than Scott was. If he does nerf the frames I mentioned I’d be surprised if they were gutted. Even Wukong had his 4 buffed in exchange for the clone being nerfed. 
 

it’s funny how Ash is supposed to be bad yet he’s the other go to for anything that requires any serious power except some boss fights. He might have two useless or bad abilities but the other two are so OP it’s all he needs. 
 

I was playing Mag earlier and I don’t even need her 1 or 4 to do millions of bleed in an AoE. If she got nerfed I’d be pretty mad because she’s a true glass cannon and her insane damage comes at the price of extortionate energy consumption, slow casting speed and not being able to chill out of sight with invisibility. But no doubt there will be people who think she’s vastly more powerful/better than those two 🗿

[(XBOX)Sariyajin v]

If self damage returns they’ll have to write in an exception ti bypass your own defenders otherwise you will literally see nothing but Revenant holding a Bramma. It’s probably why they haven’t already done it. I also have this vision of someone intentionally proccing self damage to get millions of iron skin. Remember when DE forgot to code out profit taker from Unairu’s caustic strike? 🤣

I wouldn’t be shocked if Carrier gets nerfed when people realise it’s now viable to get free ammo + mutation even on endurance runs. I hope not, companions sucked so bad for so long. They already stealth nerfed glaives, the explosion won’t proc primed pack leader. You have to physically strike an enemy.
 

but here’s the problem. They nerf the glaive class ability to heal pets but then leave Revenant completely immortal. ?!? Makes no sense. 
 

now let’s assume DE are making a new boss. How much damage do they make the thing deal to us. Chances are because of these meta frames they’ll jack the numbers sky high in a desperate effort to compensate which further narrows player choice and build diversity. You’ll get more Nullifiers. More operator only stages. More forced stealth. The same thing happened with liches. They were given absurd damage attenuation because of Voidrig’s 4. Anyone who didn’t care to use a mech would feel pretty salty. 

[vixenpixel]

If post stayed on Revenant I would wholeheartedly agree. That frame is disgusting. Basically just a weapons platform with no weaknesses. 

I only really disagree about volt. I feel like he is good mostly for his speed and is a thematically super cool frame with versatile build options. He just doesn't belong in the category imo. Furthermore, I think it's perfectly fine if a frame is best at something, like eidolon hunting. Given that frames by design have different strengths, one frame would always be best for any given content as long as the build is optimized for it. 

[(XBOX)Sariyajin v]

3 hours ago, vixenpixel said:

If post stayed on Revenant I would wholeheartedly agree. That frame is disgusting. Basically just a weapons platform with no weaknesses. 

I only really disagree about volt. I feel like he is good mostly for his speed and is a thematically super cool frame with versatile build options. He just doesn't belong in the category imo. Furthermore, I think it's perfectly fine if a frame is best at something, like eidolon hunting. Given that frames by design have different strengths, one frame would always be best for any given content as long as the build is optimized for it. 

Yeah I think Volt is well designed but he is undeniably the top pick for too many things. The only reason you’re not seeing him used for 90% of high level endurance content is the fact invisible frames and Revenant exist. I frankly don’t know how I’d change him to be less of a near perfect jack of all trades without lowering his fun factor. In his case it may be that other dps platforms need huge buffs instead. I’m thinking more traditional weapon buffers like Chroma and Mirage. DE definitely has an aversion to giving frames abilities that add huge amounts of bonus weapon damage. I could also point out that Saryn is disgustingly powerful as a weapon buffer too but she’s damage over time based so not ideal for boss fights like eidolons, the only reason she’s great for PT is the fact she can cover so many elements. But like Volt she’s not immortal or pseudo immortal/zero effort. I mean by the time she’s massively out dps-ing alternatives she’s spamming Molt to shield gate like her life depends on it - cause it does. Maybe DE could simply nerf the operator interaction (if they haven’t already) and give us a speed buff ability for Helminth that affects arch wing and allies. Perhaps then other heavy damage buff type frames would have a closer level of desirability. 
 

All frames should be fun and interactive, require you to pay attention and have potential for useful gimmicky interactions that give a unique experience. 
 

people are very much focused on the result. You could hypothetically make Revenant even more powerful but if it meant no longer being a press 2 + weapon buff ability and forget frame, people will complain. He’s basically an Inaros that can actually survive high levels. People don’t mod him for anything other than maximising Mesmer stacks and Roar/Eclipse/Xata bonus damage. 

[Famecans]

On 2023-11-20 at 5:04 AM, (XBOX)Sariyajin v said:

Volt was the ONLY frame anyone would tolerate in an eidolon squad for a damage dealing roll of any kind. Doesn’t that tell you that maybe his package is a little too complete? 

Give Xaku Xatas real true damage to actually hit all sentients and all frames will be balanced. I know it's cheating to buy Xaku before AMP but it's mechanically ridiculous that Xaku's true damage doesn't hit Teralyst shields.

Put the account level lock on Xaku, exactly that, put the account level lock on warframes, on more weapons, on arcana, on mods, on mechs, on resources etc... the story remains and obtaining these items It's free, but its use is locked, and so we'll have more fremes facing Gantulyst, Hydrolyst, Orb Mother, bla bla bla...🤷‍♂️

 

On 2023-11-19 at 9:41 PM, (XBOX)Sariyajin v said:

Ash needs a total nerf. Half the problem here is invisibility being too strong on any frame.

The enemy AI needs to be more intelligent, there are several mechanics that can trap invisible frames, there are several mechanics that can progressively trap and kill any frame in the game, but the DE refuses to state that the enemy AI is extremely dumb in its own themed tilesets.

I'm not talking about enemies with 100% aimbot and night vision, I'm talking about actually functional enemy actions and global alert levels for tilesets that make enemies interact with rooms, machines, doors and trap switches that trap any over-equipped warframe. so stealt must be stealth.