Disappointed the Heirloom packs aren't on sale for Black Friday

[PollexMessier]

39 minutes ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

I do and for a good reason, you see people like you (no offence to you directly of course) is that you are considered to be nothing more than a "fanboy" to the haters and since the net existed that term has changed quite drastically, therefore your feelings, opinions and viewpoints of DE/WF are invalid because you support them, you think they can do nothing wrong and they are the best company in the world. Even if you do criticize them because you decided to support them in such a scummy situation, any criticism from you is also invalid.

Not the best way to word that. But at least your point is clear, and I can't say I feel differently. Players that actively support predatory practices are absolutely not tolerable.
There's a few users who've had such a bad take on it I've remembered their usernames and refuse to interact in any of their future topics even if it's something I agree with. They flat out don't even deserve the acknowledgement.

Grammar issues aside, the rest of your post is well put tho.

Flattered you noticed that one post of mine enough to screenshot it despite it not getting a lot of attention. I still stand by it. If this upcoming whispers in the walls update comes with a timed exclusive supporter pack like past major updates, I'm not putting up with DE's crap anymore. I barely am as it is. Used to play for several hours at least 5 days out of the week, and when plaguestar was around i would run it 10-20 times a day, every day for the duration of the event. I enjoyed Duviri so much it even reinvigorated my enjoyment of the game after I'd started getting fed up with DE's multiple additions of weekly content (even despite Duviri also coming with one of those). But immediately after Heirloom I can barely bring myself to log in for more than an hour or two a week, and could barely even bring myself to do more than 10 runs of plaguestar total this go around, even despite having an active friend to play it with for the first time. The game's already pretty dead to me at this point, from just that one decision on DE's part. Even after having recently had my love of the game renewed prior to the release of Heirloom.

If they, by some absolute miracle, have enough humility, sense, and respect for their players to not accompany this upcoming update with a timed exclusive supporter pack like they usually do, I might be inclined to start giving the game more of my time again (until the next time). But it's never going to be the same.

And if they do prove that they've learned nothing and they're just going to keep pulling this garbage by releasing another time limited supporter pack, I have about a hundred other games I could be spending my time on that respect their players several times more than DE ever did.

[Circle_of_Psi]

9 minutes ago, PollexMessier said:

Grammar issues aside

I SUCK at Grammar and I hate it.

Tho it might due to the Grammary I have installed also lol

Edited November 25, 2023 by Circle_of_Psi

[Circle_of_Psi]

5 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Players that actively support predatory practices are absolutely not tolerable.

There's a few users who've had such a bad take on it I've remembered their usernames and refuse to interact in any of their future topics even if it's something I agree with. They flat out don't even deserve the acknowledgemen

Yeah, same here I've blocked a very big handful of players here, tho I just wish I could do more than that, so I feel you.

5 hours ago, PollexMessier said:

Flattered you noticed that one post of mine enough to screenshot it despite it not getting a lot of attention. I still stand by it. If this upcoming whispers in the walls update comes with a timed exclusive supporter pack like past major updates, I'm not putting up with DE's crap anymore. I barely am as it is. Used to play for several hours at least 5 days out of the week, and when plaguestar was around i would run it 10-20 times a day, every day for the duration of the event. I enjoyed Duviri so much it even reinvigorated my enjoyment of the game after I'd started getting fed up with DE's multiple additions of weekly content (even despite Duviri also coming with one of those). But immediately after Heirloom I can barely bring myself to log in for more than an hour or two a week, and could barely even bring myself to do more than 10 runs of plaguestar total this go around, even despite having an active friend to play it with for the first time. The game's already pretty dead to me at this point, from just that one decision on DE's part. Even after having recently had my love of the game renewed prior to the release of Heirloom.

If they, by some absolute miracle, have enough humility, sense, and respect for their players to not accompany this upcoming update with a timed exclusive supporter pack like they usually do, I might be inclined to start giving the game more of my time again (until the next time). But it's never going to be the same.

And if they do prove that they've learned nothing and they're just going to keep pulling this garbage by releasing another time limited supporter pack, I have about a hundred other games I could be spending my time on that respect their players several times more than DE ever did.

This I agree all the way, I've stopped giving a toss since Steve gave the keys to Reb, yes he is the CEO now but his focus is on the actual company not the games, but given how.. unique the place they are in is, I can't see him making any changes about it. What's funny is we both have exactly the same mindset, right to the point of Duviri as well

So yeah, overall I'm just waiting for the downfall, this new update might help me play a bit more than usual, but I highly doute it, since there is so much Vampire and Jojo trash in this game now, it's unreal and there are SO many poor choices being made.

[SneakyErvin]

On 2023-11-25 at 9:33 AM, Circle_of_Psi said:

I do and for a good reason, you see people like you (no offence to you directly of course) is that you are considered to be nothing more than a "fanboy" to the haters and since the net existed that term has changed quite drastically, therefore your feelings, opinions and viewpoints of DE/WF are invalid because you support them, you think they can do nothing wrong and they are the best company in the world. Even if you do criticize them because you decided to support them in such a scummy situation, any criticism from you is also invalid.

I understand the "why" in their hate, but I still dont understand the hate. It is just very onesided. I mean, seriously, people are sitting there and saying it is predatory, while playing the free game it is part of, where the thing they see as predatory is nothing but 100% optional. Not only that, they bring up things such as Tencent as if Tencent is still the Tencent of the past. Not that the assumptions regarding Tencent of the past were true either, since people confused the holding company Tencent with the developer/publisher Tencent Gaming. If people are going to drag in such outside influences maybe they should atleast try and keep the information recent, and not live 10 years in the past, when people used the "blame China" angle for anything Tencent related, an angle that has been gone for several years due to the shift in share spread. But it is easier to just blame randomly. People should likely look up what Tencent actually does before jumping to conclussions. Buy lots of S#&$ that they never have to worry about actively and profit from it overtime. Holding companies dont buy successful brands and companies because they think they need to improve them, they buy successful brands and companies because they are already successful and know what to do. One only needs to look at other companies where they are involved, like Path of Exile, which is exactly the same pre- and post-Tencent, both when it comes to monetization and content.

Another thing with people calling this predatory etc. is that they completely willingly ignore the whole supporter idea with the pack and treat it as just regular cosmetic releases. I'd get the hate if this was a method used at all times, with cosmetics being available only during a specific time window with a high price. But it isnt. It is 1 pack over the course of 10 years. Then there is also the part that this is a collectors item, done by a past DE artist. So it is kinda like going to a gallery and telling the owner that you are only willing to pay for the raw worth of the canvas and the paint of a painting no matter who the artist is. So in my eyes the complaints and hate just look very very selfish.

I wont own the pack, I have no wish to own the pack because I simply dont find the skins appealing to me. Just as I wont be using the upcoming operation laurel halo thing, since it just doesnt appeal to me.

[Circle_of_Psi]

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

Another thing with people calling this predatory etc. is that they completely willingly ignore the whole supporter idea with the pack and treat it as just regular cosmetic releases. I'd get the hate if this was a method used at all times, with cosmetics being available only during a specific time window with a high price. But it isnt. It is 1 pack over the course of 10 years. Then there is also the part that this is a collectors item, done by a past DE artist. So it is kinda like going to a gallery and telling the owner that you are only willing to pay for the raw worth of the canvas and the paint of a painting no matter who the artist is. So in my eyes the complaints and hate just look very very selfish.

That's actually a very interesting way of putting it, never thought of treating it like an actual collector's item in the stance that it's gonna fully support the artist itself and yes in a viewpoint of telling that to a painter is selfish yes.

So in this way, I do agree with you here.

3 hours ago, SneakyErvin said:

I understand the "why" in their hate, but I still dont understand the hate. It is just very onesided. I mean, seriously, people are sitting there and saying it is predatory, while playing the free game it is part of, where the thing they see as predatory is nothing but 100% optional. Not only that, they bring up things such as Tencent as if Tencent is still the Tencent of the past.

However here I cannot.

A pack, regardless of what it is, will be predatory since the Pirce and the limited time situation, the Founder's pack is different as it's a pack to buy to support a new game and hope it grows, if this pack came out during that time, no one will bat an eye

However, because this pack came out after DE was in a very good spot and have millions to spend on "stuff", out of the blue making a pack this pricey and limited time and calling it a good idea is exactly what people didn't agree with as you can see with the overwhelmingly negative response to this pack. Now I understand that this can't ALL be DE's fault since other packs like this in other games have come out just to milk the fanbase.

But all in all, what was done with this pack is terrible and should never happen again, DE did a half-assed PR move and did a YT-style sorry statement, but deep down they are just smiling cuz the suckers ended up paying for it and they got a profit, trust me if this got even more backlash from people who had a more heavy voice like big folks out there (Top Gaming Journalists) DE will be in a much deeper hot water.

Tencent is a different topic, no one likes them and for good reason, of all people should know why, I'm not going to go into it, cuz well, duh..

Overall the pack is a scummy tactical move by DE and if it happens again, the "haters" will be waiting, I surely will be. I know this type of pack will happen again because, cuz in the end of the day, the only thing a company cares for once they reach a certain point is money, even Founders are just "players" now and YT Content creators are the same. In the past Founders and YT CCs were people who they actually cared about, talked about a lot, and did reviews with them.

 

It's how all game companies work, treat your fans like they are your children and Feed them anything they want, once you get enough money, they are just another pawn for free money, if you are a new player and don't spend a dime, you're in the way for a player who might open their wallet.

 

Overall, I'm still debating on whether or not I want the pack, since the skins while they look great, don't play the frames that have them, besides Mag (maybe)

[SneakyErvin]

17 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

However here I cannot.

A pack, regardless of what it is, will be predatory since the Pirce and the limited time situation, the Founder's pack is different as it's a pack to buy to support a new game and hope it grows, if this pack came out during that time, no one will bat an eye

However, because this pack came out after DE was in a very good spot and have millions to spend on "stuff", out of the blue making a pack this pricey and limited time and calling it a good idea is exactly what people didn't agree with as you can see with the overwhelmingly negative response to this pack. Now I understand that this can't ALL be DE's fault since other packs like this in other games have come out just to milk the fanbase.

But at that point the whole collectors items idea is thrown out the window, since we are back at looking at it like any other cosmetic and comparing it to those. The price isnt particularly high for a collectors item, it is high if you look at it as if it was just another item. There is nothing wrong adding limited collectors items no matter where you are at in your success. I for instance enjoy buying collectors editions from artists when it comes to music. Even though they dont really need the revenue from those items, nor that the materials in those items are worth the price being asked. But it is a fun collectors item that simply adds to the value of an otherwise mundane thing. I for instance have a $45 or so Surtur miniature standing infront of me here on my desk which comes from a collectors edition of Surtur Rising by Amon Amarth. If this was just a regular miniature it would probably cost uhm $10 at most.

17 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Tencent is a different topic, no one likes them and for good reason, of all people should know why, I'm not going to go into it, cuz well, duh..

I'd like to hear those reasons. Since all I've seen throughout the years regarding the specific company in question is a massive amount of misconceptions and mistaking it for a subsidiary within that company. I've had the same misconceptions until I started to actually look those things up when they got involved in PoE which I played at the time.

17 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

Overall the pack is a scummy tactical move by DE and if it happens again, the "haters" will be waiting, I surely will be. I know this type of pack will happen again because, cuz in the end of the day, the only thing a company cares for once they reach a certain point is money, even Founders are just "players" now and YT Content creators are the same. In the past Founders and YT CCs were people who they actually cared about, talked about a lot, and did reviews with them.

I'm fairly happy that they dont treat founders and CCs differently, since there is zero reason to because their status is not a guarantee for any extensive knowledge on any matter over any other player. Most CCs on YT are straight up horrible and produce the most meaningless crap with flashy titles, the content itself is pretty much like highlighting that water is wet.

[Circle_of_Psi]

On 2023-11-27 at 12:26 PM, SneakyErvin said:

But at that point the whole collectors items idea is thrown out the window, since we are back at looking at it like any other cosmetic and comparing it to those. The price isnt particularly high for a collectors item, it is high if you look at it as if it was just another item. There is nothing wrong adding limited collectors items no matter where you are at in your success. I for instance enjoy buying collectors editions from artists when it comes to music. Even though they dont really need the revenue from those items, nor that the materials in those items are worth the price being asked. But it is a fun collectors item that simply adds to the value of an otherwise mundane thing. I for instance have a $45 or so Surtur miniature standing infront of me here on my desk which comes from a collectors edition of Surtur Rising by Amon Amarth. If this was just a regular miniature it would probably cost uhm $10 at most.

Sorry, it took so long to reply.

Ture yes, many people will still look at this idea and see it as nothing more than any other cosmetic item bundle and in a sense it is, considering all they are is a cosmetic item since it's only 2 frames and a thing to go on your head, with the respected glyphs, it's the other stuff in the pack that makes it so pricey and that what caused the issue in the first place. However, given the skins' quality and how great they look, I can see this as a Collector type of item, since they look amazing while still holding on to WF's style, they look like new warframes entirely from someone who never played WF.

Now to be fair, if the pack had more than just Mag and Forst inside the pack, maybe Excal/Trin/Volt with Mag and Forst, so all the stater frames had skins like this in one pack for the price it is, then yes I think more people will be inclined to buy it, as long it didn't have the other stuff inside it to gloat the price tag.

Overall, I did end up getting the pack myself, as a gift from a friend since he gave out Xmas gifts in terms of Steam Cards and overall the Plat was useful since I got the new store items, not sure what I'll do with the Aya tho, since I don't need it but there might be PA armour pieces I missed and I can grab. (who knows).

I do feel a bit guilty about getting it since I am against the pack and I have agreed with many that it was a kinda of bad move to make but to be fair I'm not mad at the pack or the art behind it, I'm disappointed at how it was delivered by likely the higher-ups, so in a sense I'd like to think I've supported the style of the pack and whoever the artist was.  

On 2023-11-27 at 12:26 PM, SneakyErvin said:

I'd like to hear those reasons. Since all I've seen throughout the years regarding the specific company in question is a massive amount of misconceptions and mistaking it for a subsidiary within that company. I've had the same misconceptions until I started to actually look those things up when they got involved in PoE which I played at the time.

I'm fairly happy that they dont treat founders and CCs differently, since there is zero reason to because their status is not a guarantee for any extensive knowledge on any matter over any other player. Most CCs on YT are straight up horrible and produce the most meaningless crap with flashy titles, the content itself is pretty much like highlighting that water is wet.

We're gonna have to take this to DMs, cuz now I'm flat-out interested. (To avoid detailing the topic as well on both topics)

[SneakyErvin]

4 hours ago, Circle_of_Psi said:

We're gonna have to take this to DMs, cuz now I'm flat-out interested. (To avoid detailing the topic as well on both topics)

I can just answer it here a bit regarding Tencent. People have always had a misconception that Tencent budges in and makes changes, that just isnt the case. DE and other companies, like GGG and so on are involved with Tencent, which is a holding company (for tech mostly). However people think that Tencent is the same as Tencent Games, which it isnt, since Tencent Games is a subsidairy of Tencent, their own studio within China dedicated to pooping out games for that specific region (mostly) for PC, mobile, fakestation, Xhoax, Xingtendo Stitch and whatever else they play on.

Tencent itself doesnt interfear, since holding companies buy already successful franchises and companies so they can passively gain on that success without having to do anything. They really only get involved if they are specifically asked to fund or invest in something, like a bank. Since that is really what a holding company is, a bank that works like an insurance company more or less. You send money their way and incase you ever need investments or funding you wont need to seek out an actual bank or another company/person for it, since you already have that to fall back on.

And ontop of that, the whole "Tencent evil China" thing hasnt been accurate for many many years now, since Tencent no longer has majority shares within China. Currently less than a third of the shares have those ties, since the majority share which is around a third of the company sits with a south african company named Nasper. Then the other 66% are spread out all across the world. One of the easy ways to see Tencents involvement after obtaining something is looking at GGG and PoE, since they have 5 years pre- and 5 years post- Tencent to look at. But as it turns out, PoE is practically identical in 2023 compared to the early days of 2013. To add to that, that is with 93% of the company getting sold to Tencent. Which is roughly the same setup DE has now, though Leyou got bought, not DE directly.

[(XBOX)LadyWinterstorm]

Reckon it will go on sale in the last 10 days? I've been holding off buying it just in case

[(XBOX)Cram Duahcim]

12 hours ago, (XBOX)LadyWinterstorm said:

Reckon it will go on sale in the last 10 days? I've been holding off buying it just in case

I highly doubt it