Feedback Gathering Eclipse Feedback Megathread

[Zebiko]

Tap/hold with theorem/residual arcane mechanics. Spawn circular areas on the ground where you can enter to pick up a buff of the corresponding type picked. It should play like wisp's reservoirs but with RNG spawning areas. You can still nerf the ability as well. 

[Fyn_Rakkaus]

Toggle!

[StingerB72]

Have a tap hold ability create "auras" or areas of light or dark while also giving the effects of the abilities.

[Victaghost]

Use Discord integration to base it on your Light Mode/Dark Mode setting. 😈

[River_Stryx]

I think "Tap-Hold" would be the easiest. Or have it be based on Mirage's emissive colors (similar to chroma).

[Hexerin]

13 hours ago, NinjaSyao said:

I'm not a fan of Brozime's ideas and builds myself, for example the Mesa green shard build is so pointless it hurts, but he's got a point on this one. Every outside source of DR sofar has had hefty requirements attached to it:

Null Star helminth: the frame needs 300% duration for full effect, is inconsistent at best, despises any build with range... which is most frame builds out there AND only works on health
Arcane Double Back: only 75% DR, requires different movements to activate and thus forcing you into a certain way of playing and has really crappy duration

^ Only needing 180% power strength (which is peanuts, considering how many sources of power strength we now have) for an ability that's basically a good Null Star AND a Roar competitor at the same time? Pfft! Please, DE is not gonna do that.
They were already talking about nerfing the values of the Helminth version if the toggle became a thing. I'd much rather have them make it a good ability with very, very high requirements (328% power strength requirement for full strip never stopped Pillage from being popular, lol), then them getting scared and nerf the buffs into the ground.

Bad comparisons. Ability duration is significantly easier to obtain in large quantity (basically having no cost to do so), whereas ability strength is quite hard to obtain in any significant quantity (and comes at massive cost from most sources). Arcanes are their own thing entirely, and not really comparable in any way.

[TommyBisque]

Tap/Hold please.

[TwonkeyKong]

Big fan of the just making it a Tap/Hold and adjust the balance for Helminth. 

Alternatively a tap to activate the ability, hold to switch modes. Starting mode could be determined by Energy Color (warm/cold or bright/dark). And as a balancing option for Helminth remove the hold to switch mode. That way people who subsume it would have to commit to one type of buff (based on their energy color).

Also an Icon that shows you what buff you have would be nice addition for ppl with visual impairments / color blindness.

Something along those lines:

Edited January 30 by TwonkeyKong

[Coldkiller111]

On 2024-01-27 at 2:30 AM, Hexerin said:

Setting the base value to 30% would be far, far too low. That would require an insane 317% ability strength to reach the 95% cap, or 300% ability strength just to get the standard 90% cap that every other frame gets for 200% ability strength or less. Yet another Brozime L, no surprise there.

There's no reason to nerf the DR. At most, adjust it to have a reasonably lower base value and boost it to a higher 90% cap (necessitating ability strength investment) to normalize it with modern standards. For example:

3 power strength mods in an insane amount of ability strength now? lol

[Ozbourne_]

Alright! Hear me out! 
What if in the settings there was a option to identify whether or not you have CATS, because obviously players with cats are more likely to be interrupted by said cats, so they need damage reduction to survive the times when the cats sit on the keyboard or require snacks. 
AND, for the players who have no cats, they would benefit more from the damage increase so they can complete missions faster, so they can spend more time thinking about how they should get a cat to fill the gaping hole in their lives. 

However, I think both types of players would probably appreciate a Tap/Hold Eclipse. 

[Hexerin]

14 hours ago, Coldkiller111 said:

3 power strength mods in an insane amount of ability strength now? lol

Don't even try to play this game my guy. It's not "just 3 mods", as two of those mods mandate that you take a bunch of other mods plus supportives (arcanes, shards, etc) just to bring things back to neutral for the other stats. The overall build to do so is also extremely expensive, requiring potentially several forma. On top of all that, you are left with no space for pretty much anything else. Survivability mods? Lmao nope. Augments? never. Etc.

Spoiler

[Coldkiller111]

14 hours ago, Hexerin said:

-snip-

So what you are doing for every other warframe build on the planet? Oh no, potentially several forma. Its not like you are doing 4-5 for most frames anyways.

[TheResinger]

2 minutes ago, Hexerin said:

Fresh account, procedural name, no avatar, bad takes.

Why did I even bother to respond.

My bad I logged into the account I was playing the new player experience on. Point still stands, 300% power strength takes no investment to hit and complaining about the amount of forma you would be using anyways is hilarious.

[masano233]

change Eclipse to work more reliably, but may need to reduce its effectiveness when used as a Helminth ability by reducing its power, duration, or other factors.

[Darkbring]

14 hours ago, -CG-ImMrBloo said:

Why can't we just have eclipse work based on the energy emissive like equinox?
Darker = tank, light = dps

as for what % you get out of it you could do something unique with the whole moon/solar theme and have it be higher %'s on planets closer to the sun on the starchart.
This gives you your random %, an ever changing on in terms of the fortress & then different uniqueness/variety in regards to what subsumes people use on specific planets.

Because at this point, there's only a very select set of subsumes that are truly being used.

 

 

Because tap/hold toggle allows you both options without compromising your fashion and because the energy color dependant abilities are a stupid mechanic to begin with.

Edited January 30 by Darkbring

[CrimpyCookie]

I have 2 ideas.

Leave it as is, but make Prism count as a maximum intensity light source within a certain amount of range, decreasing in intensity the further you are from it. This'll fix Eclipse being inconsistent specifically on Mirage, and would also fix Prisms inconsistent damage scaling as it would also always be in the light. It's an expensive and channeled ability with an insanely long cast time, so it should be way better than it currently is.

Or, if Eclipse ends up being made a tap/hold cast ability, then please make it so using the Solar version makes Mirage count as being in light so that Prism also benefits from it.

I really like Prism, and it would be dissapointed if Eclipses lighting inconsistency issues got fixed, but Prisms didn't. Especially considering it doesn't work at all in Entrati Labs, just like Eclipse.

[fyrye]

By far the tap/hold option to switch between evasion/damage is probably the easiest to implement & understand.
Please don't forget Prism is also affected by light intensity as well and should receive a similar adjustment.

My suggestion to the balance issue is to provide Eclipse with an additional bonus while Prism is active, based on the Eclipse state, but also remove the light intensity scaling from Prism.
This retains a bit of the thematic lighting synergy, albeit surrounding Prism usage, and at the same time decouples the larger bonus(es) for when it is added as a helminth ability to retain balance.
 

Edited January 30 by fyrye
typo

[Lazy_Eggs]

I would prefer a toggle,

I can see for the majority of players that it'll be useful on non-Steel Path and Steel Path, but if we can keep the Toggle for just Mirage and keep the Day and Night for the helminth then it would be no problem.

or

Keep the toggle, nerf the entire skill of 100% to Mirage, 50% to helminth and make eclipse stackable with other similar effects like roar, nourish, xata.

but if we were to do just the toggle and don't want to give anything back, then nerf the helminth to 50% and keep Mirage at 100%.  I don't mind the Hike in arcane energize pricing after the rework/nerf.

Keep the damage reduction the same at 75%

this is the only way to keep eclipse the same as it is in the game.  No one Using helminth for it that is or just plain useless and not worth the bile.

oh, i just have an idea.

instead of toggle, make it so you get a damage boost and a defense, so 75% reduction and 100% damage boost.  Helminth at 25% damage reduction and damage at 50%

Edited January 30 by Lazy_Eggs

[Syahra]

tap/hold

[Sir.X]

My suggestions so that I've come up with so far:

1. A simple Tap to select which buff you get and Hold to Cast. The easiest way to fix it and make it more reliable
2. Combine the Total Eclipse Augment into the ability itself to make it more effective.
3. Completely rework the Ability removing the requirements for Light or Dark areas to get the desired buff
4. Suggested rework idea:
   1. Tap to select which buff, Hold to Cast. Mirage conjures a Prism above her head, shining Light onto her Allies or shrouding them in the Dark. Light buffs Allies damage by % amount in X radius around her. Light also gives a chance for enemy attacks to reflect and blind those who hit you. Dark provides allies with a 90% Max Damage Reduction. Dark also provides allies with a small % chance to dodge damage. When Subsumed into Helmith, both buffs are reduced to 1/3 effectiveness. Energy cost would be increased to 50 on Mirage and Subsumes.

Those are my suggestions so far. Hopefully something good comes from all this feedback and its no longer so clunky anymore.

[Defectzzz]

Make the ability a tap/hold and keep current damage/reduction values for Mirage. No point to keep fixing the current iteration of the ability if GI lighting is going to be added to more parts of the game. I do want to point out one of Mirage's tips in the ability screen. "Prism deals increased Radiation Damage when Mirage is in direct light versus when she is in shadow!" Since I recommend moving away from light levels altogether, this would need to be addressed as well. Just give it the max radiation damage possible at all times or only give the radiation damage bonus when the light mode is selected via the tap/hold.

As for helminth, the numbers need to be adjusted since all warframes will be able to pick light or dark at will with tap/hold. Or tie light or dark mode to energy color and leave values as is. Having the option to only choose light or dark mode via helminth with current values will keep the ability a viable choice for some warframes. I would expect that if the values are lowered in helminth then the usage would drop significantly from 2nd place, as stated on the dev stream.

Regarding the light beam suggestion on the initial post, good idea but feels like a lot of dev work for an ability re-work. Ability would be better used on an upcoming frame and wouldn't have to stay light themed.

Thank you for reading my feedback.

[Delmesa]

Because the buff details have been fixed—telling us the correct values—I honestly think leaving its current "unreliability" is fine, and just fixing the lighting. The lighting fixing is going to have to happen anyway, right? I'd imagine it's not specifically an Eclipse interaction.

[Valdr_Hrafn]

I would love for Mirage to keep positioning as her road to power, I think that is a valuable unique feature that fits her acrobat/jester theme really well! For that to be lost is quite sad.
A lot of people would want a toggle for Helminth purposes, and because it would be way more powerful, but here is my personal suggestions:

- Max the values of the ability, giving you either full defense, or full offense, not the weird in-between values.
- Remove the dependency on the tiles and lighting engine, instead make pillars of light (like spotlights) or a noise pattern on the floor that marks the light and dark zones. The idea of her moving around the stage to get what she needs in the moment is great!
- Have her abilities interact with the stage! her ult should have a large sphere around it in which you always get the light bonus, and maybe the traps created by her legerdemain create small zones of dark. as long as they are very clearly marked by a visual effect. this would give her 4 augment an additional use by keeping you in the light at all times.

Once again I want to emphasize how beneficial it would be for her entire kit and theme if this WAS NOT a toggle ability, despite everyone wanting it to be a toggle for its popular use in helminth builds (but personally helminth should not be considered for how you change something, other than balancing it down)

[BD_K427]

I'm gonna agree with the overwhelming number of "tap/toggle" requests but also suggest maybe instead of the toggle being an instant switch between the two buffs, it gradually ramps up to its maximum after switching - maybe affected by duration or casting time mods?

and yeah, nerf it for Helminth.

[Randzom]

Honestly, I feel like toggling is kind of boring, and I like being able to switch between dark and light while the ability is active.

So hear me out: What about making it switch when rolling, somewhat like with Limbo? Fantastic synergy with Mirage's passive, gives a node to how agile Mirage Prime is depicted as in the trailer. 

Second idea (because of course I have multiples): We could go with the toggle/hold idea, but to add more fun, we can make it so enemies killed leave a disco ball that reverse the lighting in a 5 (more or less) meters area for a short duration. We could even make it so the balls count as objects for Sleight of Hand (since the amount of booby trappable objects in tile sets tend to vary, which means it would become more reliable even without the augment).