How much damage does Wukong's Clone actually do?

[VENDOMINUS]

   So today I randomly decided to do some tests and optimize a bit my infiltration Wukong (100 Ability Strength ,no damage buffs at all from arcanes or Wukong himself, no shards too)

I of course had already noticed that his aim was bad, and I do mean bad. He can barely hit the broad side of a barn if you have him a 200 bullets to do it. Still what I found surprising when I tested in the cimilacrum is that even when he does hit he doesn't really deal much damage.

I tried several weapons and could mow down all 20 of them 1 by 1 with body shots with one clip and he couldn't kill one of them with 10 clips. While firing point black and I can see him procing statuses on the enemy.

What I noticed was that his statuses also disappear a lot quicker than normal. Does that mean that they don't deal even close to normal damage?

On the ability is says that his damage should be 3x normal while in reality he seems to do less than 5% of my unbuffed damage.

 

1.So I was wondering can someone tell me how much damage does the clone actually do?

2.Does it take into account enemy armor reduced by corrosive stacks?

3.Does it's statuses deal damage and how much?

4.How inaccurate is he really. When I give him a machinegun he fires at almost a 45% angle away from the enemy

5.Should they change his description to reflect his true worth (from 3x damage to 0.05x to damage)?

 

 

 

I know his A.I. got nerfet in the past, but the current state of the skill seems rediculous.

 

EDIT: Decided to check the wiki for more info and here is what I found...

• Wukong splits himself into two corporeal forms, creating a loyal Specter armed with all of his weapons. Celestial Twin attracts enemy attention as he follows Wukong, attacks with either gun or melee dependent on the player's currently held weapon, and has a damage multiplier of 0.5x and a health multiplier of 1.5 / 1.6 / 1.75 / 2x. The twin remains at Wukong's side indefinitely until killed or manually dispelled at any time by holding down the ability key (default 1 ).
  • Health multiplier is affected by Ability Strength.
  • Damage multiplier is not affected by mods.
  • Twin Warframe and weapons stats are affected by Wukong's equipped Mods.
    • Will not utilize Galvanized mod kill bonuses, as the bonus is tied to a buff only players can get.
  • Health multiplier affects both the health and shields of the twin.
  • Celestial Twin specter AI is designed to aggressively attack nearby enemies while also staying close to Wukong's proximity. It will not attempt to parry enemy attacks with its melee weapon, and will also frequently teleport to reposition near Wukong.
  • Celestial Twin will have swirling aura around his body (affected by energy color).
• While active, Wukong can command his twin to prioritize a target on the aiming reticle by tapping the ability key (default 1 ), leaving a mark above the target for no energy cost. Once commanded, the twin will seek and destroy the target, and has a damage multiplier of 3x. In other words, 6x the damage it would do to an unmarked target.

 

I think the damage is not really 0.5x from my tests.

On further testing, I found that chaining weps only do their increased damage on the marked target and not to whatever the beam is chaining to. The same applies to explosive weapons.

Edited January 29 by VENDOMINUS

[(PSN)lord_makino234]

Ok so since he doesn't benefit off of galvanized mods which he should if the player does the work imo but realistically in missions like steel path aoe or not he will do like 20% of your damage without marking and if marked I'd say 40% cause he will never get close to your damage and use like 3 times the ammo the new shards on ability damage doesn't do anything either even though he is a ability so in most cases he's gonna chew through ammo and deal 20% of what you can do for new players it's worse cause he won't deal jack squat really to

Edited January 31 by (PSN)lord_makino234

[Leqesai]

Edit duplicate

Edited January 31 by Leqesai

[Leqesai]

4 minutes ago, (PSN)lord_makino234 said:

Ok so since he doesn't benefit off of galvanized mods which he should if the player does the work imo but realistically in missions like steel path aoe or not he will do like 20% of your damage without marking and if marked I'd say 40% cause he will never get close to your damage and use like 3 times the ammo the new shards on ability damage doesn't do anything either even though he is a ability so in most cases he's gonna chew through ammo and deal 20% of what you can do for new players it's worse cause he won't deal jack squat really to

What are you on about? Where are you pulling this 20% and 40% stuff...

[(PSN)lord_makino234]

30 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

What are you on about? Where are you pulling this 20% and 40% stuff...

Like I said if you don't have galvanized mods it's 50% of your damage but if you do have galvanized mods he doesn't benefit from them so after all of the buffs it's not 50% anymore at that point its at max 20% of what you'll naturally do with the buffs cause you'll have more multishot more bullets more damage chances for status critical damage you know how it works galvanized aptitude obviously more damage now if aoe then still galvanized alone and your clone is still doing about 20% of what your doing by just closing your eyes with max stacks of galvanized chamber and using the bramma that's where I got my numbers of 20% if unmarked 40% if marked 

[(PSN)lord_makino234]

You can say I'm wrong if you want but most players get galvanized mods and at that point your clearing rooms faster then your clone will kill the guy in the corner without eating your ammo he can't use the buffs unless you give roar or eclipse but I'm talking weapons only he can't use archon shard ability damage to increase his damage cause he does but doesn't count as a ability 

[Leqesai]

2 hours ago, (PSN)lord_makino234 said:

You can say I'm wrong if you want but most players get galvanized mods and at that point your clearing rooms faster then your clone will kill the guy in the corner without eating your ammo he can't use the buffs unless you give roar or eclipse but I'm talking weapons only he can't use archon shard ability damage to increase his damage cause he does but doesn't count as a ability 

I'm going to say you're wrong because it seems like you're pulling percentages out of the air. You've not created a compelling argument. You've thrown around some random numbers with some uncalculated factors (aside from your personal feelings/bias or secret calculations). 

Your comments on this are ultimately borderline incomprehensible to anyone actually interested in the numbers at play with these calculations. If someone can come in here and adequately explain the pseudo-math you're suggesting then I'll happily change my tune, but until then I'm firm behind my belief that you're posting gobbledygook.

[MutoManiac]

I main Wukong, his twin still wrecks and is awesome. I’m not going to test to find out how much damage he does, but with about 300% ability strength and an Innodem in his hands, I’ve seen the twin take out entry level SP enemies very quick. He gets bonus damage when you mark an enemy. Giving the twin a gun with limited ammo these days is tricky unless you have an infinite ammo weapon, but those are not that strong in SP (well maybe Sporelacer will work).

The twin is mostly fun and draws aggro away from me. I wouldn’t rely on the twin for mission success. They did nerf the damage his twin does a couple of years ago. I can solo any content up to about 2000 level SP with him. I use Xata’s Whisper over his 3 mostly. People who say Wukong is weak either don’t know how to play the simplest frame in the game or haven’t invested enough into him. 

Edited January 31 by MutoManiac

[Aruquae]

1 hour ago, Leqesai said:

I'm going to say you're wrong because it seems like you're pulling percentages out of the air. You've not created a compelling argument. You've thrown around some random numbers with some uncalculated factors (aside from your personal feelings/bias or secret calculations). 

Your comments on this are ultimately borderline incomprehensible to anyone actually interested in the numbers at play with these calculations. If someone can come in here and adequately explain the pseudo-math you're suggesting then I'll happily change my tune, but until then I'm firm behind my belief that you're posting gobbledygook.

I understand what you mean by bias and all of that. Percentages were random, HOWEVER, they are right. Wuclone can’t proc the “on kill” for galvanized mods. You can proc galvanized for yourself, but not for Wuclone. No UI indicator and there have been posts showing gameplay of Wuclone not getting benefits even if they do kill a target. I also tested this with a simple Cedo to see if they could proc multi shot, which sadly, it didn’t. 

Edit: No no I meant the percentages was wrong, but the Tenno was right about Wuclone not benefitting from “on kill” mods.

Edited January 31 by Aruquae

[SneakyErvin]

It deals 50% of your modded weapon damage, 100% if commanded to attack a specific target. And while it doesnt benefit from certain mods there isnt much reason to consider that, since it is no longer really a situation you run into eitherway, because there isnt really a point anymore going with just a single weapon in your loadout. So whichever weapon you plan for your clone to use, mod it without conditional mods. Then mod whatever weapon you plan to use with the mods you would use otherwise for the frame.

Right now I'd probably go with primary or secondary on the clone and melee on Wukong himself. Tenet Cycron is lovely if you just want reliable extra AoE and status application with decent damage, or you can go with Laetum or Phenmor for a chance at huge single target hits even if the clone wont activate incarnon mode. Just avoid anything with low ammo, since the clone is dumber than a door knob.

[Tsukinoki]

The biggest thing slowing down wukongs clone is that it can't use conditional mods (Galvanized, etc.), nor does it seem able to proc arcanes (Just tested with cascadia flare, but it likely extends to all similar arcanes such as the acolyte ones).

So if you're relying on conditional mods and arcanes as some of the main damage sources for your weapon then the clones damage is going to be a lot lower than expected.

On the other hand if you don't build around the conditional mods and arcanes for damage then the percentages provided in the UI are fairly accurate.

Edited January 31 by Tsukinoki

[(PSN)lord_makino234]

6 hours ago, Leqesai said:

I'm going to say you're wrong because it seems like you're pulling percentages out of the air. You've not created a compelling argument. You've thrown around some random numbers with some uncalculated factors (aside from your personal feelings/bias or secret calculations). 

Your comments on this are ultimately borderline incomprehensible to anyone actually interested in the numbers at play with these calculations. If someone can come in here and adequately explain the pseudo-math you're suggesting then I'll happily change my tune, but until then I'm firm behind my belief that you're posting gobbledygook.

Ok I'll put it in a much simpler term if you don't have galvanized mods he's 50% of your damage during the entire mission 

 

 

Now lemme add a max galvanized chamber oh wow I get more multishot which is extra damage chances for status and they can crit to nice increase don't ya think

 

If you can use galvanized condition overload obviously huge increase in most cases doing 200 mill for no reason is fun ngl

 

Ok after adding it up will your clone do half of what you still do? No if I 1 shot a enemy is he 2 shooting cause half my damage not even close and I just watching him put like 9 shots into a enemy yes I am he's basically doing 20% of what your doing cause no extra multishot galvanized mods are basically natural to buy or farm now and unless your playing the cedo where he has gun co cause it's built in not much of a increase really so I'd say 20% probably less cause he will miss a lot also 

Edited January 31 by (PSN)lord_makino234

[Leqesai]

1 minute ago, (PSN)lord_makino234 said:

Ok I'll put it in a much simpler term if you don't have galvanized mods he's 50% of your damage during the entire mission 

 

 

Now lemme add a max galvanized chamber oh wow I get more multishot which is extra damage chances for status and they can crit to nice increase don't ya think

 

If you can use galvanized condition overload obviously huge increase in most cases doing 200 mill for no reason is fun ngl

 

Ok after adding it up will your clone do half of what you still do? No if I 1 shot a enemy is he 2 shooting cause half my damage not even close and I just watching him put like 9 shots into a enemy yes I am he's basically doing 20% of what your doing its not random percentages I'm talking about what average damage is in warframe now 

You are literally using random percentages dude. "Basically 20%" is not math. You are doing pseudo math to explain a very basic (and obvious) point about the efficiency of ineffective mods in a use case scenario.

 

As another user pointed out. Your numbers are fantasy-land but the point about the mods not working is true. Problem is you are talking gobbledygook with the math on this and you don't seem to see how it is problematic.

 

All you need to do is point out that some things don't work with the clone. The pseudo math percentage stuff is misleading. If you are going to actually crunch the numbers great, show your work, otherwise don't just throw around random numbers. There are way more factors at play than your oversimplification would insinuate.

[(PSN)lord_makino234]

1 minute ago, Leqesai said:

You are literally using random percentages dude. "Basically 20%" is not math. You are doing pseudo math to explain a very basic (and obvious) point about the efficiency of ineffective mods in a use case scenario.

 

As another user pointed out. Your numbers are fantasy-land but the point about the mods not working is true. Problem is you are talking gobbledygook with the math on this and you don't seem to see how it is problematic.

 

All you need to do is point out that some things don't work with the clone. The pseudo math percentage stuff is misleading. If you are going to actually crunch the numbers great, show your work, otherwise don't just throw around random numbers. There are way more factors at play than your oversimplification would insinuate.

So besides the percentage nothing I said is incorrect that's all you had to say

[Leqesai]

4 hours ago, Aruquae said:

I understand what you mean by bias and all of that. Percentages were random, HOWEVER, they are right. Wuclone can’t proc the “on kill” for galvanized mods. You can proc galvanized for yourself, but not for Wuclone. No UI indicator and there have been posts showing gameplay of Wuclone not getting benefits even if they do kill a target. I also tested this with a simple Cedo to see if they could proc multi shot, which sadly, it didn’t. 

Edit: No no I meant the percentages was wrong, but the Tenno was right about Wuclone not benefitting from “on kill” mods.

Not arguing the info about the mods. That is obvious information that is both well documented on the wiki and directly quotable from the topic creators original post...

[(PSN)lord_makino234]

🗿 plus dude was doing 20% I 2 shot a enemy dude was basically shooting him like 10 times to kill the guy probably cause I was in level 300 content but that doesn't excuse he was literally doing 20% of what I was doing only by marking he got closer to half of what I do by just blinking 

[Aruquae]

Just now, Leqesai said:

Not arguing the info about the mods. That is obvious information that is both well documented on the wiki and directly quotable from the topic creators original post...

I believe what the Tenno was trying to point out was galvanized percentages? I could be wrong, but that’s how I took it.

Basically you can only get the base 80% multi shot on a maxed Galvanized Chamber, and not the bonus 150% multi shot from the “on kill” proc. These are actual percentages straight from the mod. 

[Leqesai]

2 minutes ago, (PSN)lord_makino234 said:

So besides the percentage nothing I said is incorrect that's all you had to say

Yes, you did a good job of reiterating well known information about galvanized mods, as was directly quoted from the wiki in the original post.

[(PSN)lord_makino234]

1 minute ago, Aruquae said:

I believe what the Tenno was trying to point out was galvanized percentages? I could be wrong, but that’s how I took it.

Basically you can only get the base 80% multi shot on a maxed Galvanized Chamber, and not the bonus 150% multi shot from the “on kill” proc. These are actual percentages straight from the mod. 

Yep I was adding those up and then comparing to my clones damage and after those it's like a rocket between us lol but tbh idc it's wukong dudes the goat but yea thanks ngl

[Leqesai]

Just now, Aruquae said:

I believe what the Tenno was trying to point out was galvanized percentages? I could be wrong, but that’s how I took it.

Basically you can only get the base 80% multi shot on a maxed Galvanized Chamber, and not the bonus 150% multi shot from the “on kill” proc. These are actual percentages straight from the mod. 

They are implying a percentage of dps based on the base values without actually crunching numbers. It is gibberish.

[(PSN)lord_makino234]

Just now, Leqesai said:

They are implying a percentage of dps based on the base values without actually crunching numbers. It is gibberish.

🗿 can't tell if your mad dude but after all the dps increase am I wrong saying he's not doing half of your damage he's doing much lower now? 

[Aruquae]

1 minute ago, Leqesai said:

They are implying a percentage of dps based on the base values without actually crunching numbers. It is gibberish.

Ohhh, I see. Well don’t you think multishot counts for DPS? It is damage per second, and more bullets=more damage per second. 
I hope I don’t need to go all math as that would be boring. You can just simply make a build on Overframe with galvanized chamber and see how it looks with and without conditions. The with conditions would be the damage you do, the without would be the damage your clone would be doing over 1/2 (as it gives a .5 damage multiplier). 

[(PSN)lord_makino234]

3 minutes ago, Aruquae said:

Ohhh, I see. Well don’t you think multishot counts for DPS? It is damage per second, and more bullets=more damage per second. 
I hope I don’t need to go all math as that would be boring. You can just simply make a build on Overframe with galvanized chamber and see how it looks with and without conditions. The with conditions would be the damage you do, the without would be the damage your clone would be doing over 1/2 (as it gives a .5 damage multiplier). 

🗿 multishot huge dps and ngl not Worth to explain cause if multishot wasn't dps idk if I would use it cause what other purpose would it have lol 

Edited January 31 by (PSN)lord_makino234

[Leqesai]

1 minute ago, Aruquae said:

Ohhh, I see. Well don’t you think multishot counts for DPS? It is damage per second, and more bullets=more damage per second. 
I hope I don’t need to go all math as that would be boring. You can just simply make a build on Overframe with galvanized chamber and see how it looks with and without conditions. The with conditions would be the damage you do, the without would be the damage your clone would be doing over 1/2 (as it gives a .5 damage multiplier). 

Of course it affects dps, but we shouldn't go around claiming it's some arbitrary percentages when all we are really saying is there is a significant decrease in dps with galvanized mods.

But the guy is not factoring important information then throwing out percentages. People will read these percentages then get all mixed up because the actual change in dps is not what they are suggesting. 

5 minutes ago, (PSN)lord_makino234 said:

🗿 can't tell if your mad dude but after all the dps increase am I wrong saying he's not doing half of your damage he's doing much lower now? 

I'm annoyed for sure. Because people like you throw out percentages without knowing what they are saying, which can get people all confused.

You aren't wrong about galvanized mods dropping the dps (in case-dependent scenarios) but you are throwing around random percentages to try and reinforce your point without the actual numbers to back it up. 

It's like saying, "man, milk is way more expensive today than it was last year. It's gone up like 82%!" Without actually doing the math in an attempt to illustrate the severity of the increase rather than the actual increased value itself. Numbers/percentages are not adjectives one uses to illustrate the magnitude of a thing.

[(PSN)lord_makino234]

6 minutes ago, Leqesai said:

 

I'm annoyed for sure. Because people like you throw out percentages without knowing what they are saying, which can get people all confused.

You aren't wrong about galvanized mods dropping the dps (in case-dependent scenarios) but you are throwing around random percentages to try and reinforce your point without the actual numbers to back it up. 

It's like saying, "man, milk is way more expensive today than it was last year. It's gone up like 82%!" Without actually doing the math in an attempt to illustrate the severity of the increase rather than the actual increased value itself. Numbers/percentages are not adjectives one uses to illustrate the magnitude of a thing.

Ok ok if I have my galvanized mods built up I 2 shot a corpus and my clone kills him in 10 to 12 bullets is he 50% or much lower give me the accurate number then 🗿

Edited January 31 by (PSN)lord_makino234