PC Dante Unbound: Deep Archimedea: Hotfix 35.5.3

[PekelniBoroshna]

The worst hotfix to date as of rn. "We will tweak Dante a bit" - gets pretty harsh nerfs (particurally LoS that is very bugged and inconsistent) , "oh by the way you no longer can CC overguard units in any way" - tnx DE, i hate it, "1 week for Nezha augment is enough, now perish" -50% range nerf is dumb, if you afraid of it that much then nerf it's multiplier so you have to work for nuke not reduce the range. But if want to go that way... Then Saryn spores needs to be nerfed too - too much range, spreads miles away, can full armor strip enemies with 2 green shards, too much dmg for free, can't kill anything before her so it hurts my fragile ego, and i happens to have a solution for this problem - make her spores affected by LANE OF SIGHT! (also reduce range by 50%, it's too much). Yeah. Also we need to gut thermal sunder, those pesky Garudas and Titanias are constanly on my nerves, cant kill damn grineers first and it hurts me on spiritual levels, pls nerf DE, i know you do everything for your players (right?).

Edited April 5 by PekelniBoroshna

[Ardentnatic]

I really don't understand why Dante damage is nerfed when you can Thermal Sunder a void exterminate mission under a minute.

Dante damage is not even that big. I was doing steel path kuva survival fully expecting him to nuke the whole thing because of all the hype, but his Tragedy didn't nuke the whole thing, so I thought he's very balanced but this nerf is going to make people play him less. Overall this is very disappointing. 

[Eredreu]

wow I dont have to farm a second Dante now, I can throw his trash nerf ass to the helminth,

And Nezha, sorry bro, time to collect dust in the corner again, was a good ride.

[TTie]

I am not sure if my comment is going to be lost in a 1000 others. I can't believe no one mentioned this solution (unless I missed it).

1. We already have per warframe specific settings in game settings.

2. Just allow to toggle Overguard on or off in these setting for frames the player do not want to receive Overguard for.

3. Revert Dante changes (except owls), and let everyone continue enjoying Dante.

[Waeleto]

Just now, TTie said:

I am not sure if my comment is going to be lost in a 1000 others. I can't believe no one mentioned this solution (unless I missed it).

1. We already have per warframe specific settings in game settings.

2. Just allow to toggle Overguard on or off in these setting for frames the player do not want to receive Overguard for.

3. Revert Dante changes (except owls), and let everyone continue enjoying Dante.

This ^

[MrDerpHerpin]

4 minutes ago, TTie said:

I am not sure if my comment is going to be lost in a 1000 others. I can't believe no one mentioned this solution (unless I missed it).

1. We already have per warframe specific settings in game settings.

2. Just allow to toggle Overguard on or off in these setting for frames the player do not want to receive Overguard for.

3. Revert Dante changes (except owls), and let everyone continue enjoying Dante.

As I've said before, that would make too much sense! DE isn't about making sense, their about fixing a problem that didn't even exist!

[SHWAT_4]

I think I'll just play a month after all updates, once all the nerfs are processed. Then decide what to forma and potato. Dante nerfed already and it hasn't even been two weeks. CC nerfed even further. DE, please don't nerf CC anymore, please, I beg...

[kadlis12]

Just feedback about the Lightning in Orbiter: It went from Disturbing to Unnecessarily Awful and Disturbing. (really, get rid of the inconsistent blue and special effects)

[kuryux]

Came here just to rant about the nerf

[Amanne]

I'll not be talking about the nerfs, releasing something and then destroying key functionality in one way or another isn't impressing anyone. However, it seems Deep Archimedea game mode evoked quite mixed feelings among the community. So it happened with me as well, thus I took some time to sort out my thoughts.

First of all, the game mode is decent, the culprit of the negativity is obviously the decision to make these RNG loodouts. Naturally, it's annoying and it feels like a cheap way to increase difficulty to many, especially as we have The Duviri Circuit already. And it IS annoying to get all crappy stuff there, however there is an easy way to reroll available frames and weapons just by doing one round, which works even with the normal Circuit. It goes without saying that people tend to do longer runs only when they have better stuff. Even more so, there are overpowered Decrees which turn everything into madness pretty quickly.

But what about Deep Archimedea? The problem was that when we all rushed to Necraloid to check the much awaited mode, we were slapped in the face with the necessity to get 25 research points to unlock the Elite version, meaning we had a precious little choice of weapons and frames. I was lucky, I had a tanky frame and a weapon capable of doing some damage. I had no problem completing the mission solo, however unsurprisingly my damage wasn't good enough to kill those Voidrigs fast. I went on a public run for the 37 points Elite Archimedea, and it turned out extremely easy, we had outright two meta frames and good damage. Then after some time I decided to make another Elite Archimedea run solo, but the server reset happened, which changed the available loadout choices. The best I could use was a semi-passable frame and a relatively good incarnon weapon I had been too lazy to build because I had a pretty similar one already. I have the weapon and the Incarnon Genesis for it, so it's MY problem that I don't have the whole thing ready, and also nothing stops me from getting these 20 Pathos Clamps and applying enough forma. But why? I felt extremely annoyed and logged off as it was very late anyway. Now what if I wasn't lucky the first time? One can see why there is all this ranting about RNG.

However, what happens without loadout restrictions? Then people are disappointed of having no challenge. Increasing enemy level is a good option to alleviate that, and level cap missions are highly sought to. Needless to say, meta frames and meta weapons are well capable of dealing with that. But isn't it good to force some diversity? Isn't it fun to do some relatively low level stuff with a non-optimal setup? The answer is simple: it depends. On how bad the setup is. Generally, one needs to be able to survive well enough and to be able to deal enough damage. Let's see what happens in Deep Archimedea.

For now, let's assume Elite Archimedea is already unlocked, we return to the issues with unlocking it later. Let's consider Deep Archimedea first. The highest reward we can get is with 20 research points, which we can get by selecting everything but two loadout options. Simply, one can use a frame and a weapon of choice and still get 21 research points and all the rewards. It's more than enough for a comfortable run. A very good design. Are things different with Elite Archimedea? Yes, there is a reward for 37 research points. On the other hand, it's a niche 50 vosfor, an easily obtainable commodity. However the diamond reward for 34 research points is most important. Thus, by sacrificing the last reward, which isn't of much significance, one can free one loadout option. Just one instead of two like in normal Deep Archimedea, but Elite Archimedea IS supposed to be harder, right? Of course, it's a trade-off between a better frame or a better weapon. One may use a defensive Helminth infusion or an offensive one, a wider aoe or a more focused weapon, etc. There is much flexibility. Again, a great design!

But... why all the fuss when everything is so good? Because RNG is RNG. The first unlock of Elite Archimedea could be disappointing. Not everybody have all the good weapons and frames available. Even more importantly, not everybody like every frame, not everybody enjoys being forced to use frames which require more maintenance, current debuffs might be especially unpleasant for certain frames, etc. Thus it can happen that even when aiming for 34 research points, Elite Archimedea could be offering frustrating loadout options. 

What can be done to address this issue without changing the whole mission design, which, I repeat, is very good overall? We notice that one could simply wait till the next day for another RNG roll for the available loadout options, after all it's a weekly mission. But what do we have for such situations in many other places? Yes, it's a Rush button. Wouldn't it be an easy and elegant solution to have a Reroll button which would reroll daily loadout options for say 50 platinum?

[AlfonsoGP]

Can you improve the performance of the #*!%ing game instead of making it more difficult  , thanks 😒

[Hestium]

Hi,

First time commenter on the forums.

I would consider myself a more hardcore player. I enjoy endless runs and minmaxing the frames & weapons that i enjoy. 

To this effect im not running around collecting every gun in the game and ones i don't like how they handle i will level and not invest anything into but guns and frames i do really enjoy will have how ever many forma they require to make the builds i want. 

I want to express that i am really really disappointed with the release of the Deep Archimedea game mode. 

I like some of the modifiers etc that have been introduced but i was hoping for a more long run experience where you would do go through multiple game types. Say you start off by having to use the eye to find X that you then need to defend successful defence of x waves giving you the location to disruption terminal for a few rounds. This pisses off the enemy and you have to survive some really hectic 10 min survival (no life support just hard ass survival) this turns into a exterminate the last few enemies (100 or so) once there dead there is an assasination tanky ass boss. extraction 

each of these stage get progressively harder and fast

Points are awarded for effectiveness of the team in each stage (points lost for each true death) etc

 

And the main thing DON'T LIMIT WHAT WE WANT TO PLAY. RNG isnt fu!. Its fine for Circuit because the buffs are crazy strong and what ever. But i don't wanna be stuck with my 0 forma Caliban with a un leveled sobek with no mods. And dont turn around and say you can playt what you want you dont have to use the Indervidual Paramaters. But lets be real we want the rewards we have to use them and that feels really really bad. 

 

Does using trash frames that you don't invest in make things harder - Yes 

Does that harder = more fun - No it makes it feel really annoying. There are much better ways to implement difficulty without this please move away from RNG in how we actually play the game. RNG in loot is fine.

 

[DrifterDrifterNGL]

I think it's just peachy that the dante nerfs happen an entire week after release, the nerfs scream of hating CC, half the time one verse won't cast after the other, LOS on his abilities works half the time, archon Intensify if situational at best but now doesn't work on dante anymore. Bless your hearts, this was a dumb idea.

21 hours ago, Kokogumi said:

Warframe already has too many nuker frames. We wouldn't want too many. Please understand. :^)

No, LoS needs to be fixed or removed. It's terribly inconsistent and the fact of a nerf happening only a week after release, on top of a spell cast problem where it won't trigger sometimes and you have to cast again. This is unreal, no epic.

 

20 hours ago, DeadxxSmile said:

Yeah so I bought the $15 Dante bundle, are we getting that and all the resources back because you said you weren't nerfing him into the ground, and then proceeded to do just that. He needed slight tweaks not a funeral pyre for Christ's sake. 

Doubtful, though I'm in the same boat as you.

 

20 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

For visibility here, we're actively reading your feedback on the nerfs/changes, Deep Archimedea, etc. 

We hear you on it all and are not taking it lightly.

Appreciate the constructive comments. 

Instead how about reading the Dante feedback. The team overguard was the only thing that (MAYBE, JUST MAYBE) needed to be nerfed by around 20% but all this extra broken LoS requirements and nerfs, were abysmal.

 

 

19 hours ago, Azvalk said:

Personally, I think the changes to the overguard are "reasonable".

LoS required for Tragedy on the other hand, would only be acceptable if the LoS had absolutely no operational problems.
However, it is visibly proven that there is.
I am a game programmer myself, and it is not for nothing that I consider visibility checks to be one of the worst horror to program correctly.
Knowing this, using visibility checks, in the most satisfying power of the new star of the game, is simply a bad decision.
However, I saw Tragedy working correctly, in a quite simple environment, and it made sense, gameplay wise. I mean it felt like I have to position myself correctly to use it, and not play with dead brain.. But, you have to consider that apparently, LoS has bad tendancies. And so the amount of frustration, comming from the fact that the player did the effort to position himself correctly, only to watch his ult fail is far from negligeable..

Also, Archon Intensify.. this thing should be triggered by any ability that affect health, even when health is already full. For all warframes.
The restriction it has make no sense, all other archon mod can be triggered with ease, why this one has to be gated that way ?
Overguard, shields, special protection of some kind.. so many things can protect out health and garanties that it never needs a heal..

This was one of the better replies that I've seen. Thank you. 

 

19 hours ago, Waeleto said:

His overguard was gutted, it's legit worse than styanax now

It's worse Kullervo too, before the nerf, it was 1 cast of [2,2,4] to reach the same amount as my mediocre Kullervo build, now it's 2 casts (*not to match either, just to get close*). Sure they increased the regeneration rate but that doesn't do much when a Blitz Boy looks at you wrong, and the Overguard disappears faster than a father's will to stay. 

 

19 hours ago, Darthplagueis13 said:

Why did you, then?

Do you not recognize that what made tragedy good wasn't its damage potential but the fact that it didn't have a LOS check?

 

That's what makes a frame a respectable nuke frame. Not needing to have every enemy right infront of you in order to hit them. It's why frames such as Saryn and Volt dominate Sanctuary Onslaught and any other made that needs fast kills.

 

Also, you massively stifled tragedy's damage potential with the nerf to Pageflight already.

 

I'm sorry, but this is a classic example of a balancing patch touching too many things at once and going way overboard in the process.

It's heavy handed actions, with little to no interactions with how most people play the game. 

[UnZkiPriimE]

Never spending real money on Warframe bundles again if they get gutted like that, you truly chose the worst possible ways to tackle these nerfs...

If you like LoS checks so much, then fix them at least, please

Also Nezha Augment change is so weird "Alright we nerf CC even more to make it consistent but Dante gets LoS and Nezha only loses some range" Like am I taking crazy pills this contradicts your own words, right?

[Stomno]

hace 8 minutos, DrifterDrifterNGL dijo:

No, LoS needs to be fixed or removed. It's terribly inconsistent and the fact of a nerf happening only a week after release, on top of a spell cast problem where it won't trigger sometimes and you have to cast again. This is unreal, no epic.

Don't try. It's a troll/noob/DEmember or else. And DE doesn't care about actual players and the comments here, they will do whatever they want and laugh in your face and the customers face. It's a loss battle and I learned that the hard way years ago.

I thought they had change with Rebb in front but it's the same 💰 I truly had faith, they have been great this updates until this...

[masteraarott]

Really sad about the Ice Wave nerf.

What reason have I to use Ice Wave now that it doesn't slow eximus any more than avalanche will? It's not like Ice Wave impedance with augment is more effective against non-overguard units than unarugmented avalanche. 

My guy already has a junk ability and a junk passive. He's so very nearly a one button frame outside of defence missions now. It's avalanche spam, globe spam in defence, or gimmick globe damage amp builds. 

And it's not like there's any indication of a rework or the like. 

[yongluofanchen]

2小时前 , PekelniBoroshna 说:

rn 迄今为止最糟糕的修补程序。 “我们会稍微调整但丁” - 得到相当严厉的削弱（特别是 LoS，有很多 bug 且不一致），“哦，顺便说一句，你不再能以任何方式 CC 监视单位” - tnx DE，我讨厌它，“1一周的 Nezha 增强就足够了，现在灭亡”-50% 范围削弱是愚蠢的，如果你害怕它那么削弱它的乘数，所以你必须为核武器工作而不是减少范围。但如果想走那条路……那么Saryn孢子也需要被削弱——射程太大，传播数英里远，可以用2个绿色碎片全盔剥掉敌人，免费伤害太多，不能杀死她之前的任何东西所以这伤害了我脆弱的自尊心，而我恰好有一个解决这个问题的办法——让她的孢子受到视线的影响！ （同时将范围缩小50%，太多了）。是的。另外我们还需要去除热能破甲弹，那些讨厌的 Garudas 和 Titanias 一直让我心烦意乱，不能先杀死该死的 Grineers，这在精神层面上伤害了我，请削弱 DE，我知道你为你的玩家做了一切（对吧？）。

Right. In addition, reduce the Thermal Sunder range by 50% and increase LoS

[RyllusPurple]

styanax already does overguard far more than dante, how is that fair at all?

[BladeOfThePoet]

Oh for Gods' sake, there was that whole thing a while ago with nerfing AoE weapons because y'all didn't want people to just use planetbuster nuke builds on every mission, but now you go and make it so that options other than nuking the entire eastern quadrant of the galaxy are even harder to pull off. Infested and Murmur both have enemies that can grant the rank and file grunts overguard, so why the everloving flumph would I bring crowd control effects instead of a frame or weapon with the "Delete This General Direction" option? 

[Skynet66]

Change suggestions from a Vets POV 

Howdy DE and Tenno, I've been playing the game for nearly a decade (since late 2015) and some of these nerfs have been extremely unnecessary nor does it address the core issue the design of the game is attempting to take. 

The problem with Warframe is the game is attempting to be difficult,  but inorganically. 

Inorganic difficulty, in my definition, is the direct artificial handicap set upon players in order to keep them from being too powerful. Personally, I think this has merit in many situations, especially with exploits. 

However, this method of balancing difficulty leads to an over emphasis on handicapping the player directly, rather than through means of a faster enemy scaling, or through creating new enemies that counter the player and the new play style.

What do I mean? Take the new nerfs to crowd control. Eximus units are now completely immune to player actions, or rather player actions directly have no effect on them. This direct handicap set upon the players is not an attempt to make the enemies stronger, but the player weaker. 

How would I go about it? Simply put, let them be crowd controlled but apply a diminished effect or altered effect to the eximus units. Make frosts ice powers be countered by fire exima. He freezes them temporarily (1-2s) but they can use their fire powers to remove the freeze on them and nearby enemies, elevating them in priority to be killed, but not taking away the ability to halt them even if momentarily.

How about cold eximus? Have them resistant completely to frost as they are both ice. However they can't spread this immunity, but are functionally tankier as some ice armor for them or something makes them take more hits (like chroma)

Energy and leech eximus would be weak to frost as they have no counter direct counter.

This principal can functionally diminish or counter cc but within justification and organically. Frames have natural predators and they have natural prey so to speak (it also creates emphasis on team play, and diversity of strategy)

The overguard mechanic for enemies I don't personally disagree with it's existence, however I don't believe it should warrant a blank immunity to everything. 

In regards to Dante Nerfs, you guys jumped too fast to nerfing him. The LoS being the most severe and egregious. I won't speak of that though as many more have voiced their minds on it.

 

What do you think of my suggestion? I understand if it seems mechanically too complicated to implement, but DE is nothing if not DEdicated . I've seen this game go through so many systems and changes that it stays fresh, however it's inorganic approach to some balancing creates more issues than it addresses imo

[Envy-NV]

Guess I'm shelving Dante. Shame because he was legitimately super fun and this change
took all of that away

 

[PocaHontas23]

Good Afternoon Fellow Tenno

     First I would like to say never posted in forums before but this is too much.... First i have to say i contacted customer support and asked for a refund since i spent the 750 plat to get his full kit they responded quickly and was willing to give out a refund I denied the refund but at least customer support is there, any who just to be quick this nerf did nothing to fix the issue players were so called complaining about the overguard was destroyed instead of fixing the issue with certain builds on frames i.e nidus, inaros so not share the overguard instead they do this nonsense. LOS is complete Bull that made him immediate F tier of a frame now IDK if they played with these nerfs before putting it out but the frame sucks complete arse now not the same frame what so ever, does not matter what build you try on him he just sucks now, have you tried so called end game content with this new so called dante cmon you have to keep casting 224 at least 70 times before you can start worrying about killing things wtf, honestly you need to revert all nerfs and rethink what you need to do to his overguard ability there is a lot you guys can do make it an augment so other players get the overguard whatever it is, and its complete bull to release a new frame and not even a week after to completely destroy it with this so called light nerf that your dumb arse people put out on live stream oh dont worry guys it wont be that bad. I did not care how much i spent on this game after this my wallet is officially closed for business thanks DE

[yongluofanchen]

I have a very "Cooool" and "DE" idea, why not add "LoS" to all the skills? For example, "Desecrate, Mass Vitrify", we can also add durations for all skills, such as "Reservoirs". Trust me, this will make WARFRAME more "Cooool"

[DrNut]

neither of the two major issues with Garuda were fixed, but at least this caught a few issues I was tracking. Hope you guys are able to squash those Garuda bugs soon.

[DarthVZ]

I know that a full revert will never happen, but it is honestly the only option if DE wants to save at least some of the goodwill that people had before this hotfix. The fact that they decided to basically nullify a massive W update just baffles me.