PC PC Dante Unbound: Deep Archimedea: Hotfix 35.5.3

[TheSteelMushroom]

Are you later going to give us the option to rent the weapons for Deep Archimedeas like with Duviri? Because I ain't going to recraft old weapons and waste my forma only for Deep Archimedea and use it nowhere else while being more concerned with being stuck with a useless weapon if it pops up in Duviri because you've increased the chance for weapons we own to appear as a choice for Duviri.

Edited April 4 by TheSteelMushroom

[I-Mad_Genius]

Thanks DE! I spent money, time, and resources on Dante and now he's useless! 

Edited April 5 by I-Mad_Genius
Typo

[Crackensan]

5 minutes ago, Gandalf_White said:

Truly an unnecessary nerf. Finally you add a frame I've been craving for ever since I started playing in 2016 (I mean just look at my name, I'm basically dedicated to all-things-wizardry)

Dante was so much fun to play. He was strong, but nowhere near OP. I fully kitted him out, even colored and fashion framed him as close as I could to Gandalf. Now he feels garbage to play and I am incredibly sad, because I got my new main stolen before I could even have more than 2 days of fun with him.

Rebecca said on the dev short that this will be a small tweak. That, quoting: "we take this very seriously and we're not trying to make the first 5 days of Dante the best and only good days". Well guess what, that's exactly what has happened.

Literally all that was needed was to make his Overguard apply to allies ONLY with an augment. Those nerfs don't even fix the issue with anti-synergy of overguard being applied to frames that are affected negatively by it.

OR tackle the issue AT THE CORE (because there WILL be more frames with overguard and MORE complaints from people who DON'T want overguard in the future) and make damage to Overguard count TOWARDS the mods and abilities that require you to take damage in the first place. EVEN if it has to be a smaller % due to the amounts of overguard a players can have vs shields and health.

 

Edit: Honestly, so disappointed. I'm already having fun taken out of me in this bleak world, I don't need this to happen in my most played and favorite game as well...

Honestly, it doesn't surprise me.

[AxelFlussbach]

4 hours ago, Kokogumi said:

In a perfect world DE would balance Warframes on Steel Path performance.

But this is not a perfect world.

I remember the original premise of Steel Path

 

***

What it isn’t:
❌ - intended to be associated with the nebulous ‘end game’ topic.
❌ - overly complicated in its goal to simply provide higher level content and some exclusive rewards.
❌ - tiered. We are providing one 100+ level pass to be cognizant of matchmaking for our first iteration.

***

(taken from

)

Note that it was not meant to be overly complicated and it was not meant to be associated with the nebulous 'end game' topic.

Well, it's not associated with a nebulous 'end game' topic,  because it's undeniably associated with the actual endgame now. Steel Path difficulty crept its way into the normal endgame (sometimes actually called Steel Path modifiers, sometimes disguised with a different name) and the game is in a worse state because of all the power-creep that comes with it.

We'd have a lot less problems if Steel Path wouldn't exist or at least would have stayed just the second starchart playthrough. Steel Path difficulty is abused by Digital Extremes to make content more fake-exciting.

Edited April 4 by AxelFlussbach
butterfingers

[vFlitz]

Dante didn't automate anything. He wasn't particularly dominant. An argument could be made with Overguard being disruptive (a fault of outdated mechanics rather than Dante's), but what's even the point when your changes fail to address that part or even make it worse?

The 'buffs' are dangerously close to an attempt to gaslight people into thinking that this is a give and take. Wordwarden damage increase doesn't matter, it's a status output and utility skill. Overguard regen increase is no actual improvement either, it's only there to enable repeated Overguard gating.

Now for the nerfs:

• Cutting Overguard generation by 60% doesn't pass as a 'minor tweak' no matter how you look at it. It also only serves to make Dante more cumbersome to play at medium-to-high levels. Normal starchart it's still godmode, longer endless mission runs even the old values evaporated instantly. It does, however, ensure Dante will cast Triumph more frequently to make things even harder for Chroma/Rage users.
• Archon Intensify working on him added a bit more engagement into his ability rotation, but it's not a major loss I suppose. It merely ensures the mod is consistent in its lack of use cases and sounds like that was the goal.
• Pageflight was undoubtedly strong, and I believe it still is. Since that effect wasn't properly conveyed by the ability's description, this one is somewhat reasonable.

And the worst part - LoS requirement on Tragedy. You have to be aware how terribly LoS checks work in this game, and if you somehow aren't, then here you go https://clips.twitch.tv/StupidSteamySandpiperTF2John-qWt9OPuHGyqJlP6o

Tragedy already had a 'soft' LoS requirement because it can't deal proper damage to enemies that aren't primed with status, it could only nuke low level or unarmored fodder. There's a multitude of ways to nuke such enemies that don't have LoS checks, so all this accomplishes is making Tragedy annoyingly inconsistent and that's nothing short of horrible for an ability with this kind of total cost and cast time.

5 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

These changes are not meant to suspend the fun factor but to maintain our philosophy on why we nerf things in Warframe (automated play, disruptive to squad, or overly dominant). 

I hope you at least realize how hollow this statement rings when most players could easily point out multiple frames that are far worse offenders for any of the criteria and these changes don't address the single thing Dante was arguably disruptive with. Unless your plan was to deal with the Overguard complaints was to make people stop playing him, in which case, congratulations, I guess. But you could at least have the guts to say so instead of trying to sugarcoat it.

[Stomno]

An important day shadowed by a twitch stream where the mayor problem is how the word "wyvern" is pronounced. This is how they are taking notes of our comments guys :)

[RaptormkII]

There was no reason for the Dante nerf. Reacting to reactionaries is never a good look.

His farm was fantastic, he was fun to play and rewarded engaging with the game. The problem is that his kit revealed problems with older frames' kits.

But rather than fix those issues, the fun new frame got trashed before some people were even able to play the one they built. The extreme change to Nezha's augment and further nerfing CC was also unwarranted. Both Nezha and Dante were in great places with obvious weaknesses in their AOE damage with respect to tanky enemies or enemies that have status immunity. 

But since I don't want to just criticize without offering any kind of constructive ideas: Remove squad-wide overguard from Dante's 4 and replace it with squad-wide energy regen (except for Dante. Let him keep overguard without the energy regen because he has Noctua). That way the players complaining about the impact of overguard on their builds get placated and they even get more energy. 

Oh, and just fix Chroma. He's far out of step with the current state of the game and Vex Armor can basically be replaced with a Primary or Secondary Merciless arcane. 

Edit: I had considered the Protea Prime Access an easy "buy". Now... I'm going to wait and see what happens. DE had been knocking it out of the park, but this is a major step back. 

Edited April 4 by RaptormkII

[.LeiA._]

Ah how kind of you, devs. Can I get refund for 2 Formas that I've used for Dante, please?

I'm glad I didn't spend money on prime access anymore.

[Exarke]

5 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

Missed Notes from Update 35.5.0:
Observant Tenno may have noticed some Abilities are no longer interacting with Crowd Control immune foes the same way. This is due to a change that went out with Dante Unbound, but was unfortunately missed in Patch Notes. These particular interactions fell outside of the intended design of CC immunity, so we have removed these outliers to restore expected behaviors. 

Enemies with Crowd Control immunity (ex: Overguard) have had the following interactions removed: 

• Frost's Ice Wave Impedance Augment (specifically the frozen trail that slows them)
• Rhino’s Stomp (slow effect)
• Primary Obstruct (weapon jamming)
• Exodia Epidemic (enemy suspension)
• Zenurik Temporal Drag (slow effect)
• Wisp’s Breach Surge (blind)
• Halikar (disarm)
• Mesa’s Muzzle Flash (blind)
• Proboscis Cernos (stun and pull)
• Mag’s Counter Pulse Augment (robotics disabling and disarm)
• Mag’s Fracturing Crush Augment (immobilization) 
• Malicious Code (immobilization) 

Why aren't more people talking about this? This is an absolute unmitigated catastrophe for everything Warframe.

[NeDesitVirtus]

2 hours ago, Hexerin said:

How to not be taken seriously in one simple name:

😘 Classy as always. You never disappoint. 

Edited April 5 by NeDesitVirtus

[Arcticias]

I'm really disappointed in the Dante and Nezha changes. I don't post on the forums very often, but I feel like I have to now. I'm a new player, less than 60 days, and I've really, really enjoyed Dante. I put 8 forma and all my archon shared into him and I've been having a ton of fun tweaking my builds. I also really like Nezha and have been enjoying his new augment a ton. Its really frustrating that both were nerfed so aggressively, particularly since in the Devshort the other day Rebecca said that the plan was to bring Dante's power down just a little bit. After that Devshort I was hopeful that the nerfs wouldn't be that bad. My biggest frustration with all of this is I have a Thermal Sunder nuke Gauss Prime ready to go and an immortal Revenant Prime. Compared to those two Dante is fun, but not crazy stronger than them, so these nerfs confuse me more than anything. I can do the same huge nukes with Gauss and armor strip? That said Nezha in comparison isn't as bad, but I do think the radius reduction should be 25% instead of 50%.

I'm trying not to be hyperbolic, but if this is how launches for new warframes will be handled then personally I will be holding off spending money or plat on them until they've been whacked with the nerf bat. The day Dante released I saw others playing him and how much fun he was and I immediately bought him and started investing in him and I loved it. But just a week later I might as well go back to my Gauss Sunder nuke build which is arguably better in harder content because of the armor strip.

Edited April 5 by Arcticias

[dhragonh]

I bought Dante while it came out. He was sold as a powerful and totally versatile character, now he is just a rock that can occasionally hit. They nerfed him until he was horrible. I want my money back

[TommyBisque]

This update (aside from deep archimedea) feels very reactionary and hasty. Can we please get an explanation of how pre-nerf Dante violated any of the three pillars of DE's nerf philosophy? It seems like the issue was mostly that players who want to get damaged for reasons like Rage energy regen were unable to with Dante sharing overguard. This issue was not resolved, however Dante's overall DPS was put into the ground. The Line of Sight (Soft or Hard) requirement should not have been added to Tragedy and instead (if a nerf feels necessary) should've simply received "no more than" a 25% range decrease. Dante was not "dominating" enough to warrant such a nerf. He felt like a solid release of a warframe and was given player attention because he was new and good. There has not been enough time to determine he is meta or overpowered nor enough time to see some healthy usage stats. I recommend reverting this change and taking more time to evaluate before attempting to nerf. Also, if the problem was to respond to the people who don't want the shared overguard then a solution involving a variable opt-out or other fix sounds better than a nerf to the frame itself in my opinion.

I also want to note that Nezha's new augment was very powerful and I also agree with a range decrease to balance this, however 50% is far too much of a decrease in my opinion. 50% decrease in range makes this augment not feel worthwhile to slot in. Please consider a similar "no more than" ~25% range decrease like I mentioned for Dante.

Overall, the major update releasing Dante and the new augments felt really good but the nerfs given in this hotfix are both way past an acceptable margin and also don't seem to fit into the DE nerf philosophy reasoning. Warframes releasing in a powerful state does not inherently mean they are meta breaking and dominating but if that is a suspicion from the dev team, more time and solid statistical analysis is required before such a ruinous nerf. Thank you for reading, I have a lot of respect for the folks at DE and remember to be kind.

[Dante6th]

Now Dante is a true Tragedy, truly I prefer do you nerf the damage but not how they work.

 

I want my Money back DE.

[madmaddux]

2 minutes ago, dhragonh said:

I bought Dante while it came out. He was sold as a powerful and totally versatile character, now he is just a rock that can occasionally hit. They nerfed him until he was horrible. I want my money back

if you paid actual money for dante i highly urge you to request a refund through your payment provider they need to understand and the only way to do that is to take the money they stole by misleading their player base. i want a refund for my 5 forma and plat i used to rush the build absolutely ridiculous at this point anything new in warframe is a scam if it costs money until 6months has passed and we know the nerf rocket isnt gonna come down from space and nuke the product we paid for.

[Sammonoske]

5 hours ago, [DE]Megan said:

In the time that Dante has been available to play, he has quickly become a fan favorite

Well, not anymore! 🤣

Can add this to the growing list of silly kneejerk nerfs.

[Yametehkudasai]

For a min I thought I have a new main, going back to Xaku I guess.

[kirajuno]

Does anyone know if the loadout resetting is a bug? I haven't played Deep Archimedea at all yet, but after daily reset my entire loadout option changed after I spent time putting it together :(

 

The post states that it's supposed to reset on Mondays, so I'm not sure if I missed something or if it bugged out.

[Cavern]

Though i finally got a frame that i loved since i love playing wizards in games, but well i guess i was wrong, thx DE

[II_Vextra_II]

5 hours ago, Rihenwn said:

Immortality? You have clearly never reached level cap in this game at all. Anyone unbothered by nerfs like yourself have clearly never experimented with builds or even tried to understand how the game works at all.

If you're so worried about balancing things as DE is, you would encourage a rework for those warframes that are less used (doesn't mean useless) instead of nerfing a good frame that managed to bring people back to the game, excited to try it.

You must not understand how Triumph works if you don't realize that it still makes Dante immortal. Triumph give you Overguard regeneration WITHOUT a recharge delay like shields. Since Overguard has a 0.5 second gate upon breaking, you could have a 2/sec regen (which is WAY less than what he actually has) and still be immortal. Triumph acts like pre-nerf Topaz blast gating. Focus your frustration more on the current LoS issues with Tragedy instead of the Overguard nerf, because Triumph still makes Dante just as immortal as it did previously.

[Waeleto]

2 minutes ago, II_Vextra_II said:

You must not understand how Triumph works if you don't realize that it still makes Dante immortal. Triumph give you Overguard regeneration WITHOUT a recharge delay like shields. Since Overguard has a 0.5 second gate upon breaking, you could have a 2/sec regen (which is WAY less than what he actually has) and still be immortal. Triumph acts like pre-nerf Topaz blast gating. Focus your frustration more on the current LoS issues with Tragedy instead of the Overguard nerf, because Triumph still makes Dante just as immortal as it did previously.

Both nerfs are equally awful ,light verse AND triumph were both hit with very HIGH number nerfs that dante needs to do 18 ability casts now to max his overguard

[VarjakPrime]

Yeah cos **** you if you're on console, we're not allowed to play without volumetric fog. So if you wanted to play the game without eye watering horrible looking pale fog that makes dark colors look washed out, you need to go buy a PC

[fumaczi]

nezha augment 50% lower range is such a massive nerf not big fan of such a drastic change 

[ToxicReflexes]

yeah why take away half range on the nezha augment? like it just ruins it completely. remove ips from it like influence but don't just kill the range its unusable now just another melee influence with way too much setup. i think the range should be reverted and just remove the broken part (slash damage)  and why take a unique weapon like arca titron and ruin its one unique feature. might aswell let it get stacks from slam attacks if the stacks basically add negligible damage now 

[Ace-Bounty-Hunter]

So you went from releasing the best update in a long while to instantly dumpstering it in the span of a week. Why would you do such a thing? The design decisions on all these nerfs are simply mind boggling!