Isn't eclipse in a bad state?

[TheLegendCore]

So a few patches ago eclipse was Nerfed in an intend to be more consistent from before. The problem was that a more consistent eclipse would overshadow other abilities in helminth system which was totally understandable (If it went live without nerfing I would have putted in on every single frame I had !) so they decided to make 2 changes, first change it form multiplicative to additive second make it 350%. Just like other players this made me unhappy in the beginning but running the math I found that it would still be more than enough for 90% of the content it is used for and it had lots of potential. But after a so called "listening to our players" stream they announced that they will make it multiplicative again (So hooray) but they would reduce the value to 30% (YUCK !). Now after trying eclipse in different situations I found out that it is not good enough for majority of contents. Here are some examples : 
1- For general use in missions Xata, roar and nourish are much better options because they each have unique interactions example being roar dmg buff to status effects, xata and incarnons and etc.

2- For eidolons simply there is no difference between Xata, Roar and Eclipse. In some cases Roar is even better since it applies to everyone. Expert players dont even need eclipse since they can one shot anyways with fancy rivens and other mechanisms. 

3- For profit taker Xata, Roar, Eclipse are simply not high enough (eclipse used to be one of the best options here). Vex armor still does a good enough job (please dont nerf).

So my conclusion is that Eclipse is being overshadowed by other abilities. Now tell me if Im wrong but I don't think anyone would disagree with a minor buff to eclipse to make it at least 60-75% and see how that does everything. From things being now eclipse is just not good enough for anything, I mean sure the dmg reduction is good but no one will use that. people simply prefer to use easier options for dmg reduction and most of the players don't even consider eclipse as a dmg reduction ability. 

Lets talk more about this, I think eclipse is dying and it needs to be saved. 

Edited April 17 by TheLegendCore

[UnstarPrime]

6 minutes ago, TheLegendCore said:

From things being now eclipse is just not good enough for anything, I mean sure the dmg reduction is good but no one will use that.

With respect, you've carved out your own personal blind spot here by making the assumption that nobody will use an ability that provides 75% DR.  Do you want 75% DR?  Clearly not.  But the thing about different people is that they have different priorities and different preferences.

And that's the reason why the players who choose Eclipse will choose it: because while it does less for raw damage output compared to other Helminth abilities, it also provides DR when needed.

[TheLegendCore]

39 minutes ago, UnstarPrime said:

With respect, you've carved out your own personal blind spot here by making the assumption that nobody will use an ability that provides 75% DR.  Do you want 75% DR?  Clearly not.  But the thing about different people is that they have different priorities and different preferences.

And that's the reason why the players who choose Eclipse will choose it: because while it does less for raw damage output compared to other Helminth abilities, it also provides DR when needed.

I understand what you mean, and to be clear I didn't say the DR is bad, all Im saying here is that Eclipse used to be one of our best Dmg abilities prior to the nerf, but now there is no dmg ability that can do what eclipse used to be able to do. The update was meant to improve the ability which it didnt. Also my question is why not make it 60%? with 60% the dmg output in some cases would be still as much as roar(since roar double dips), and some cases xata does a better job, and some cases like eidolons eclipse would be the best. I think it would be good to have different abilities for different situations. 

Edited April 17 by TheLegendCore

[KitMeHarder]

1 hour ago, TheLegendCore said:

Now tell me if Im wrong but I don't think anyone would disagree with a minor buff to eclipse to make it at least 60-75% and see how that does everything.

By DE's own logic the buff should be 120%, or at the very least 100%.

And if the reason they won't do it is because Eclipse can also switch to be a DR ability (though the vast majority of players will only use one buff or the other on a build, not both), then I propose that the ability be split in half like Equinox's Rest & Rage. With which buff the subsume gives being based off of the frame's energy color (or some other mechanic).

Edited April 17 by KitMeHarder

[owendawgx]

I agree that the helminth version should be slightly higher.