Improvements to Frost (post Jade update)

[insanitybit]

^{_{Updated Post-Jade}}

Frost is in a great place Post Jade but there are still a few things that make the Frame feel a lot worse than I think it should. I've taken my Frost into 5-6k endurance but many of the changes I'll propose will impact gameplay at all levels. The goal is not to make Frost OP, it's to make Frost more interesting, dynamic, and rewarding to play.

 

1. Nullifiers should not remove Frost’s Overguard.
2. Nullifiers and Snow Globe need a new interaction.
3. Snow Globe should have scaling mechanics.
4. Freeze Force has too much potential to grief your allies.
5. Frost's 1 feels useless.
6. Frost's Passive is so much better but could use a tweak to be more useful.

 

 

Nullifiers

(1) and (2) being fixed would address what I consider "demoralizing" issues. You play the game, you invest time building up your OG, building up a super powerful Snow Globe, and then... wiped away. This just feels bad - it doesn't feel *challenging*, it feels *bad*. It makes you feel like spending the time to build up was wasted, and it's not fun when you waste time.

 

The solution is to make it so that a Nullifier barely tapping your globe doesn't destroy it instantly.

1. During the invulnerability phase the Nullifier bubble will take 10% damage if it contacts the globe *once* and the invulnerability phase will end instantly.

2. After the invulnerability phase any contact with the bubble will do 25% damage per second to the globe, ignoring any DR.

 

This gives the player a short period of time to find and kill the nullifier, it makes nullifiers absolutely wreck the iframes that you normally get from the Globe, but it *puts power back in the player's hands to try to solve the problem*.

 

Snow Globe

(3) is somewhat similar to (1) and (2). At a certain level your Snow Globe boils down to its invulnerability period and that's it - given the number of enemies and their damage numbers you'll see the Globe shatter quickly.

 

My suggestion is to change how Snow Globe works. We want it to be helpful but not broken, and it should scale dynamically based on the content you're engaging in. What I *don't* want is for one of Frost's skills to simply stop working after a certain level, even if you manage to invest heavily into it. Right now it provides some temporary CC/ protection thanks to the iframes but I'd like to see more. Keep in mind that a single enemy can end up outputting over 1M DPS!

 

Let's do a quick recap on enemy DPS. Here's the calculations I got for a Grineer Heavy Gunner (assuming 12.5 shots per second)

• Level 500 = 23K DPS
• Level 1,000 = 67K DPS
• Level 1,500 = 125K DPS
• Level 3,000 = 367K DPS
• Level 5,000 = 810K DPS
• Level 9,999 = 2.4M DPS

 

My proposal is straightforward.

1. When Frost casts Snow Globe, after the iframe duration is up, half of Frost's armor is snapshotted and applied to the Snow Globe. This synergizes with his passive and gives the Snow Globe the armor as DR. Armor generally gives somewhere between 75% and 85% DR, if you build for it. Frost doesn't usually build for armor, but the new passive can be helpful here. At 900 armor that's ~75% DR, which pushes Snow Globe's EHP to 4 million and therefore lets it be useful up into level ~1,150 before it gets one shot.

 

2. Uncap the HP and use a formula instead. The goal of the formula is to keep the current scaling roughly where it is today until level 500, at which point things start to pick up quite a bit more. The scaling then slows down after a certain point to ensure that the bubble isn't extremely OP. Note that "Enemy Level" would be based on whichever the highest level enemy that hit the Snow Globe during iframes was (or the average level across each hit). When the enemy level is under 500, just add a floor of 1M HP just like today.

Snow Globe HP = Base HP * (1 + (a * (Enemy Level - L1)^b) / (c + (Enemy Level - L1)^b))

• Base Max HP = 1,000,000
• a = 10 (controls the maximum potential multiplier)
• b = 2 (controls the rate of scaling)
• c = 2,000,000 (controls how fast the scaling slows down at higher levels)
• L1 = 500 (the level at which scaling starts to pick up)

Lvl -> HP

500 -> 1M, 1,000 -> ~2.1M, 5,000 -> ~10.1M, 10,000 -> ~10.7M

So the Snow Globe HP maxes out at about 10x its current value when enemies have scaled to over 1000x their base levels. With the armor scaling that 10x could be as high as 100x, with 90% DR, but you'd have to really build for that and, practically, you're looking at more like a 40x. This may seems overpowered but the scaling formula ensures that this matches enemy level scaling well, refer back to the DPS numbers for *one* Grineer unit above (imagine you have tens of those units around). If this does feel OP, the formula can simply change - `b` is the main scaling variable.

`a`, `b`, and `c`, can all be tuned a bit or a new formula can be used instead. One other tweak to the formula might be to replace `Enemy Level` with `(Enemy Level - Enemy Base Level)`. Another would be to incorporate the Warframe level into things, such that at level 0 you take a penalty but at level 30 you do not - just add `* (1 - 0.25 * (1 - Warframe Level / 30))` to the end. I've often felt like Warframe level would be nice to incorporate.

Fixing Freeze Force

Freeze Force can unintentionally nerf your peers. I like to play with others so I can't run this augment, which feels bad. There are multiple potential fixes here:

1. A new augment where the Cold damage doesn't combine, ala Toxic Lash.

2. A new augment where the Cold damage doesn't combine, ala Venom Dose.

2. A setting that allows us to disable sharing.

Any of these 3 will work. 1 or 2 are preferred.

Fixing Frost's 1 (Freeze)

Right now Frost's 1 is useless. Avalanche freezes in a larger AoE without needing to aim, strips armor, and gives OG. You would virtually never waste the energy on casting Freeze. The only benefit of Freeze is that you can shoot it further away, but why would you want to do that? Very niche. And technically the freeze duration is longer, but Avalanche's freeze is plenty of time.

My proposal is to give Freeze a new mechanic - Pull.

1. Freeze pulls enemies within the AoE range into a tight group.

2. Freeze pulls *already Frozen* that are within 5 meters of the AoE range into the AoE range, a looser group.

This has a few properties:

1. Pulling enemies together synergizes with Frost's armor passive, which is range based.

2. Grouping enemies synergizes with Avalanche'd enemies popping

3. Gives Frost the only Pull that works on Frozen enemies, I think. Novel and cool.

4. Isn't broken - it just takes enemies that were already close and makes them closer, and the larger AoE pull only applies to enemies already Frozen.

I think this would be super fun, not broken, and would give me such a good reason to cast 1.

Frost's New Passive

Frost's new passive around armor increase is cool but:

1. Armor isn't something that Frost cares a ton about

2. It doesn't actually trigger too often

Frost keeps enemies *away*, but the range is 15 meters. And Frozen enemies are inherently not a threat, which means that the armor boost has much more niche value. So basically it rarely triggers and it triggers at the wrong time.

Both of these problems can be solved easily without being overpowered!

1. Give each armor stack a cool down of 3 seconds

2. Increase the range to 20 meters (a mere 5 meters increase but it would really help!)

This means that Frost can move around, 'acquiring' armor stacks. I could Freeze enemies, slide through them to acquire stacks, and then create a globe.

Conclusion

I think that these changes would just be amazing. They wouldn't be broken, they wouldn't change the Frame's core mechanics, they'd just *feel good* and make the kit more dynamic and interesting.

 

Edited July 1 by insanitybit

[Venus-Venera]

vor 12 Stunden schrieb insanitybit:

 

I’ve been playing Frost a lot lately and I really enjoy the frame, probably it’s my favorite one so far. But there are definitely some Quality of Life issues, missed opportunities, and what seem like huge oversights to me. My hope is that some of these changes should be obvious but that they should all make sense. The goal is not to make Frost the most powerful frame in the game but to make Frost feel better to play and to make his kit feel more natural. I'm currently running 2 or 3 augments on this frame, which feels sort of crazy to me. I don't believe that any of these changes would make Frost absurdly powerful.

 

1. Nullifiers should not remove Frost’s Overguard. It doesn’t make sense that they do, there’s no ability that sustains the OG so why would it get removed? This feels like an oversight.
2. Nullifiers should not be able to break Snow Globe when it’s in its invulnerable state. I think it’s questionable that they insta-break it at all, but at minimum it makes zero sense that they can break it when it’s in the invulnerable state. Instead, a nullifier that touches an invulnerable globe should take damage to its bubble.
3. Avalanche needs to have its casting animation uncapped, it is crazy that it can’t be sped up right now. The animation has a fixed speed that can not be improved through Archon shards, Natural Talent, or Madurai. Just uncap the speed. Again, feels like this is a bug or oversight where the animation speed buffs only applied to the first part of the animation accidentally.
4. Freeze Force needs to either change or there needs to be a new augment with a different behavior. My suggestion is that there would be a new augment mod that adds Cold damage just like Freeze Force, except it isn’t shared to the team and it doesn’t combine with elements. Currently, Freeze Force is just a griefing tool to break other player’s kits and it forces you to build your own weapons around it on top of that. The new augment could work the way that Venom Dose on Saryn works (without the sharing), it doesn’t have to be like Toxic Lash (although I wouldn’t complain).
5. Icy Avalanche should add Overguard to Frost natively. The Overguard provided is not strong enough for this to be an augment mod and it fits well with the overall kit. Freeing up the extra slot would also help Frost a lot - I currently run three augment mods on this frame. I’d suggest that Icy Avalanche changes such that it provides two behaviors - the Overguard is shared, just like it is today, and the Overguard regens when Frost assists in the kill of an enemy frozen by Avalanche, with a cool down of some value equal to or greater than 1 second. That would make the Augment far more interesting but still less powerful than Dante’s 224, which casts faster, lasts for more than a minute, and applies to all kills and assists.
6. Frost's Passive is a joke, but there are so many passives that are bad in the game that I almost don't feel like it matters. Increased duration of cold procs feels like an obvious, simple win but I feel like it's not worth mentioning - everyone knows that Frost has a garbage tier passive and anything would be better than what it is right now.

 

The first 3 would be really nice QoL and should just be how the frame works. I can't see how anyone would argue against those tbh. It’s insane to me that OG gets stripped by Nullifiers, that a nullifier can tap your bubble while it’s supposed to be invulnerable and pop it instantly, and that an already extremely slow casting animation can’t be improved. I've seen the first two brought up so many times and I think it's way overdue to see them fixed.

 

I think 4 may be controversial, but I don’t think cold is such an insane status that this would be broken (even after the Jade buff). Giving us a way to apply cold without griefing our team and throwing away viral, or forcing us to subsume Nourish to get Viral back, would make Frost so much more enjoyable and interesting. Even if all that changed was not sharing the status it would at least prevent Frost from griefing other players, but I do think that cold suffers from being a part of Viral so having a separate cold status would be really, really nice.

 

I think 5 shouldn’t be controversial. Given how expensive the skill is and how little OG you get I see no reason for this to be an augment. The cap on OG is going to be ~25k to ~30k for most builds, I think, and regenerating it requires casting a slow, expensive skill that leaves you vulnerable the entire time and only adds a small amount of OG after the animation finishes. The only reason I can see 5 not being a good idea is that OG sort of trivializes early game content and you can farm Frost very early in the game, but it’s so expensive and so slow, especially for early game players who don’t have the ability to speed it up or put on mods like Primed Flow, that I don’t think it would actually break the early game. As for the augment adding Regen, I could take it or leave it - it feels reasonable but I really just think that the native behavior should change and that was my idea for making the augment relevant. If you want to just kill the augment, whatever.

 

As I said, I don't think 6 is worth discussing much. I think something like 25% longer cold proc duration (6 -> 7 seconds) would be very, very reasonable and fit well with the kit, but I'd take anything over what we have today.

You already address important topics like bubble and nulli.
The problem is also that Frost has completely lost his identity. I played with it a lot at the beginning and diligently defended def obj with bubble. and even aoe were possible. However, there was no sp mode back then...
and even played with it everywhere and was the last one at the exit. because........ frost speed is extremely lousy.

and now there is simply no "emotional kick" to take frost.
Even after the improvements, there are just far too good warframes that put him in the shade.-

[(PSN)MYKK678]

To be honest, this Thread is a bit premature/early. We've got the Cold Status changes coming in Jade Shadows, along with tweaks mentioned about Warframes who utilise Cold Status in their powers. All those changes are very likely already finished and waiting to go live, considering we'll be getting a preview of some of them in the May Devstream. It's basically "sit and wait" time, as any suggestions/problems folks have with Frost may be addressed.

All but one, the Nullifier -> Overguard thing is intentional. Rhino loses his to Nuliifiers too. There are different versions of Overguard due to pluses/minuses that they all have.

[Waeleto]

1 hour ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

All but one, the Nullifier -> Overguard thing is intentional. Rhino loses his to Nuliifiers too. There are different versions of Overguard due to pluses/minuses that they all have.

I doubt it's intentional as in balance, it's probably a really old code that'll ruin many things if they don't dedicate a lot of effort to changing that's why it's in this state, frost isn't particularly op or have an insane overguard for this not to be fixed

[insanitybit]

I feel like the first 3 things are unlikely to be intentional and are just bugs tbh. But even if they were intentional at one point, they make no sense and need to change desperately.

[Kittens_For_Life]

7 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

All but one, the Nullifier -> Overguard thing is intentional. Rhino loses his to Nuliifiers too. There are different versions of Overguard due to pluses/minuses that they all have.

If that was the case, then it wouldn't make sense for Dante's overguard to persist through nullifiers, yet it does.

[(PSN)MYKK678]

8 hours ago, Waeleto said:

I doubt it's intentional as in balance, it's probably a really old code that'll ruin many things if they don't dedicate a lot of effort to changing that's why it's in this state, frost isn't particularly op or have an insane overguard for this not to be fixed

My Rhino gets between 500,000 and 2 million Overguard on a bad day with my set up. Trust me, It's intentional.

1 hour ago, Kittens_For_Life said:

If that was the case, then it wouldn't make sense for Dante's overguard to persist through nullifiers, yet it does.

That's a statement but it's missing the explanation.

[Kittens_For_Life]

55 minutes ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

My Rhino gets between 500,000 and 2 million Overguard on a bad day with my set up. Trust me, It's intentional.

That's a statement but it's missing the explanation.

Going a bit more into it, frost's overguard is not an actively casted ability like iron skin, and not to mention frost's overguard gain is capped at 15k, nowhere near what rhino can pull up and easily trumped over by the dante's overguard which can reach 50k or more (and doesn't require enemy a large amount of enemies in proximity to do so).

Granted I'm probably misinterpeting it, but it seems like frost's overghard generation requires way more effort for way less reward

[(PSN)MYKK678]

11 minutes ago, Kittens_For_Life said:

Going a bit more into it, frost's overguard is not an actively casted ability like iron skin, and not to mention frost's overguard gain is capped at 15k, nowhere near what rhino can pull up and easily trumped over by the dante's overguard which can reach 50k or more (and doesn't require enemy a large amount of enemies in proximity to do so).

Granted I'm probably misinterpeting it, but it seems like frost's overghard generation requires way more effort for way less reward

Well there's big 2 problems.

First of all the point you're trying to get across has been severely weakened by a lie. Frosts Overguard isn't capped at 15k, one of my Frost set ups has 229% ability strength so my cap is 34,350. 229% obviously isn't even the highest you can go, so neither is 34,350. Its possible you didn't lie intentionally but I still have to address the point as it has been presented, with you stating Frosts max overguard is 15,000.

The second problem is the variables haven't been considered. Frost uses Avalanche to gain Overguard, and Avalanche doesn't give up any of its previous functions in order to accommodate the new Overguard function. Put simply, Avalanche freezes all normal enemies, otherwise known as 100% movement reduction, strips Armour, explodes dealing Damage within a certain Range, and now applies Overguard. The cold status of it also enhances crits. 5 functions in one. Dantes gives Overguard, slightly increases Health, and very slightly regens Overguard. 3 functions. And that's 3 that barely come close to what Frost's 5 do, it's not just "3 vs 5".

So far, every Frame given Overguard has remained unique in how it works. The strongest versions of it have been given a unique weakness to help balance the scales. None of this is going to change anything, and it's likely the explanation above won't either until Pablo or someone else "officially" confirms it. But when you look at all the Overguard types side by side and which ones Nullifiers affect, it makes sense.

 

[Waeleto]

2 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

My Rhino gets between 500,000 and 2 million Overguard on a bad day with my set up. Trust me, It's intentional.

We're literally talking about frost right now when did i mention rhino in my reply

[(PSN)MYKK678]

20 minutes ago, Waeleto said:

We're literally talking about frost right now when did i mention rhino in my reply

You were given an example of Overguard working very differently on another frame. Your request for it wasn't a necessity. Otherwise we'd be stuck trying to figure out how you landed on "old code" for a new system like Overguard.

[insanitybit]

I don't think it matters very much whether it was intentional or not, honestly. It's still terrible that the OG granted is removed by a nullifier, especially when Frost's only other survivability mechanic, the Snow globe, is completely removed by a nullifier.

> First of all the point you're trying to get across has been severely weakened by a lie. Frosts Overguard isn't capped at 15k, one of my Frost set ups has 229% ability strength so my cap is 34,350. 229% obviously isn't even the highest you can go, so neither is 34,350. Its possible you didn't lie intentionally but I still have to address the point as it has been presented, with you stating Frosts max overguard is 15,000.

34,350 is not very much in SP, which I'm assuming you'd be at or close to if you're hitting 200+ strength, especially if you have to go that much into ability strength - that's obviously not free. But yeah, like I said in the first post 25k-30k is going to be what typical builds are running. 35k, sure. Certainly the cap is higher than 15k, no question.

> The second problem is the variables haven't been considered.

They certainly have been. Your analysis is fine, it's certainly true that Avalanche is a great skill. But, as I said in the first post, it's also extremely slow and it costs a fair bit of energy. I agree entirely that it's not "3 vs 5", that doesn't really make sense. Dante's 2 gives iframes during the animation, Dante's 2 is 4x cheaper, Dante's 2 can be cast multiple times before Frost's 4 finishes once, Dante's 2 doesn't require enemies to be nearby, Dante's 224 gives Regen on kill/assist (and 224 costs as much as Frost's 4), etc. Dante does *not* Freeze/apply cold procs, completely agree on that.

The goal here isn't to say "Dante is better therefore Frost is bad" or whatever. Dante is just a good showcase of what a skill like this should be - Dante is not vulnerable during his 2, and that alone makes it one of the best survivability casts in the game, and there are solid QoL wins alongside that like not having it stripped by Nullifiers.

Keep in mind that I'm not asking for Avalanche to be changed radically, at least not in my opinion. I gave a suggestion for how the augment could be changed, but my feeling on Avalanche is just that the OG should be there by default (for Frost) and that the casting speed shouldn't be hard capped. I'm not trying to make Frost OP, I'm just saying that there are QoL issues and oversights that should be addressed. Easily the most controversial change here, I suspect, is making the OG a default behavior or changing the Avalanche augment. Frankly, if they just removed the nullifier vulnerability and increased the casting speed that would address 50% of what I want, with the rest being addressed by me not greifing my team by using Freeze Force.

Edited May 18 by insanitybit

[Kittens_For_Life]

5 hours ago, (PSN)MYKK678 said:

Well there's big 2 problems.

First of all the point you're trying to get across has been severely weakened by a lie. Frosts Overguard isn't capped at 15k, one of my Frost set ups has 229% ability strength so my cap is 34,350. 229% obviously isn't even the highest you can go, so neither is 34,350. Its possible you didn't lie intentionally but I still have to address the point as it has been presented, with you stating Frosts max overguard is 15,000.

The second problem is the variables haven't been considered. Frost uses Avalanche to gain Overguard, and Avalanche doesn't give up any of its previous functions in order to accommodate the new Overguard function. Put simply, Avalanche freezes all normal enemies, otherwise known as 100% movement reduction, strips Armour, explodes dealing Damage within a certain Range, and now applies Overguard. The cold status of it also enhances crits. 5 functions in one. Dantes gives Overguard, slightly increases Health, and very slightly regens Overguard. 3 functions. And that's 3 that barely come close to what Frost's 5 do, it's not just "3 vs 5".

So far, every Frame given Overguard has remained unique in how it works. The strongest versions of it have been given a unique weakness to help balance the scales. None of this is going to change anything, and it's likely the explanation above won't either until Pablo or someone else "officially" confirms it. But when you look at all the Overguard types side by side and which ones Nullifiers affect, it makes sense.

 

I did misinterpet the wikis page, missing that the cap was affected by ability strength, my apologies for that. It still begs as to why both kullervo snd stynx (with augment) are capable of generating overguard on a per enemy hit basis that isn't removed from nullifiers, and it seems more like an oversight that of three abilities that have this functionality (generate overguard from damaging enemies) only frost's is nullified. While avalanche is a very multi purpose ability, it's still his most expensive ability, and the overguard is only granted via using an augment over one of your mod slots

[(MOB)drakefrost]

I’d be fine having Overguard removed on Nullifier. That said, I’m proposing different improvement instead.

• Replace Frost passive with something having “active approach” (e.g. 25% chance to freeze enemies on critical).
  Reason, it overlaps with Snow Globe and its augment, plus it’s less usable against strong enemies (when one hit can be fatal).
• (Augment) Alter Snow Globe properties.
  Reduce max amount to 1 and range by 50%. Recasting resets shield hp instead of stacking. Let it be carried, similar to Arctic / Frozen Eximus. If necessary, add a reaction against Nullifying abilities.
  Reason, giving Snow Globe more flexibilities similar to existing mechanic (Eximus).

[Drasozal]

I feel like it's kinda weird how frost's OG gets immediately removed on either going out of bounds, or touching a nullifier bubble, but styanax is completely fine in both scenarios.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Il y a 4 heures, Drasozal a dit :

I feel like it's kinda weird how frost's OG gets immediately removed on either going out of bounds, or touching a nullifier bubble, but styanax is completely fine in both scenarios.

It's because Frost's overguard works with a buff like Rhino's Ironskin, whereas Styanax, Dante and Kullervo just add the value directly on top of what you have if you have less than the cap. It's not as bad as it seems though.

[insanitybit]

It's not some horrible thing it's just annoying and doesn't make sense. Nullifiers remove abilities. OG is not being maintained by any sort of active ability, and it is not itself an ability.

[insanitybit]

Okay, so the dev stream was amazing and definitely helps so much ahhhhhh

1. It sounds like they're implementing the passive change that I was hoping for! Longer cold proc duration for Frost!!! And then on top of that, Frost gets armor buff based on enemies being frozen, which buffs snow globe and survivability. Feels good.

2. Frost's 1 will be potentially be way better since it will scale with range. This means that [Freeze Force] can just be thrown away entirely and cold procs can get spread with the 1 on its own. That gives the mod slot back at the cost of it being a little less convenient/ energy hungry, but the mod slot could help there. Would I like the augment to work differently? Yes. Does it matter anymore? Eh, not really.

3. Snow Globe can be shot into good Lord yes YES YES I didn't even bring this up because I didn't think it'd ever happen/ it was just the intention. This makes the globe way more interesting for CC and not just "hide in a globe". Now I can place multiple globes down and hop between them, or place them on defense targets without worrying about accidentally trapping the target with enemies that my team can't hit.

I still want to see the casting speed uncapped, and I feel like nullifier interactions should be improved, but I'm really happy to see these changes made. This is huge for Frost.

Edited June 1 by insanitybit

[HyperDiver]

1-4 points are solid.

 

[insanitybit]

Yeah, 5 is probably the most controversial. I'm not convinced of it myself, fully. And 6 is obsolete, DE is literally doing that and more to the passive.

[insanitybit]

Something I'm noticing about the Jade Eximus is that Frost does really poorly against them.

1. Their beams hit through the Frost Globe, as expected.

2. The beams aren't impacted by Cold procs. So, unlike every other Eximus, cold doesn't help slow their attacks down. They are *particularly* immune to CC.

3. Frost's 4 is so slow that by the time it's finished casting you're already dead.

Once again, Frost's 4 being capped is a major issue. Cold was Frost's main weapon against Eximus and it does nothing in this situation. The globe is useless against Eximus and with Jade you're forced to run around a lot, making even a large globe feel really tiny.

edit: The hotfix helped since the beam no longer one-shots, but still feel that these issues are relevant.

Edited June 23 by insanitybit

[insanitybit]

Took Frost to ~6k the other day in murmur survival. I left because I wanted to try out a different build since the gun I was running didn't scale well at that level.

A few things I noticed:

1. Frost's 1 is still useless. There's virtually no situation where you'd choose it over Avalanche. I'm probably going to Helminth it off since his 2 seems more useful at this point, although I doubt I'll cast either. I'd like to see something totally new here. I was thinking about it, and a "pull" that only applies to frozen enemies would be really cool - cast 1 and any frozen enemy gets pulled to a chosen location. This would pair really nicely with enemies that explode from Avalanche, not OP since it Overguard enemies wouldn't be impacted (since it only works on Frozen enemies) and requires setup to freeze.

2. At higher levels you're going to see a big drop in KPM because his survival relies more and more on the snow globe. And your Snow Globe needs constant maintenance at high levels due to the very small 10M health cap. I saw my KPM drop to ~65-70, but I wasn't tracking it too much. I'd like to see the Snow Globe's health cap go way up while also scaling based on strength/armor.

3. Building up a snow globe and having it insta-wiped by a nullifier isn't fun. It's a really dumb, annoying mechanic. Nullifiers could maybe to 15% damage per second to the globe, that seems far more reasonable than just wiping it because the nullifier taps the globe.

4. The armor bonus is kinda useless because of the health cap on snowglobe and the fact that, at higher levels, you're keeping enemies away from you and the range on the passive is too small. Ideally, the passive would scale with range, that way if you go max range for avalanche/snowglobe you'd also get a much larger passive radius for the armor boost. 15m is just too small for it to really have a noticeable impact since Frost relies on CC'ing enemies at a distance. The increased cold proc duration is welcome, however, and both are infinitely better than the previous passive, which may as well have not existed. If scaling the passive won't work, I'd say 20m would be a minimum, but 25 would be "good".

I'm going to do some more testing and probably rewrite the first post to reflect things post-update. These are just the notes I had from yesterday.

Edited June 23 by insanitybit

[Pockolock]

19 hours ago, insanitybit said:

The armor bonus is kinda useless because of the health cap on snowglobe and the fact that, at higher levels, you're keeping enemies away from you and the range on the passive is too small.

I think the range would be alright IF they remedy it with the armor bonus lasting a duration (refreshable by enemy getting another cold proc nearby frost). Maybe around 12-15 seconds? You wont get any armor bonus if enemies around you are dead :// Honestly I thought the armor numbers would be big as Atlas or Grendels. 

Edited June 24 by Pockolock
incomplete

[insanitybit]

Agreed, a duration on the passive would also help. Right now the armor bonus just feels underwhelming. It's maybe more helpful for players earlier in the star chart, idk. I think a duration or increase in range would be really helpful for making it at least not useless in SP.

[CosoMalvadoNG]

Apparently Pablo likes frost a lot xD