Lore Discussion: The Fallen Empire Theory

[CatScratch]

But what if... Please stay with me on this one..

What if Tenno who rebelled and brought on the fall of the empire and end of Orokin civilization are not the same ones who were put to cryo-sleep?

In one livestream devs stated that they are planning to add more solar systems to the game and that eventually we will fight against the faction that brought down the Orokin, now what if that faction are the Tenno of the past?

 

In my mind I just can't see that developers would choose a lore path that portrays Tenno as the villains, this alternative seems like a much more sensible turn for the future events. 

[Sixty5]

But what if... Please stay with me on this one..

What if Tenno who rebelled and brought on the fall of the empire and end of Orokin civilization are not the same ones who were put to cryo-sleep?

In one livestream devs stated that they are planning to add more solar systems to the game and that eventually we will fight against the faction that brought down the Orokin, now what if that faction are the Tenno of the past?

 

In my mind I just can't see that developers would choose a lore path that portrays Tenno as the villains, this alternative seems like a much more sensible turn for the future events. 

A second faction of Tenno would be interesting, fighting those with our own abilities.

 

Would be damn cool

[NixeonLow]

I'm tired, so I don't exactly feel like reading through six pages...sorry if my ideas have been mentioned. Another sorry if it seems I'm rambling/if I make spelling errors...I'm in dire need of sleep. CURSE YOU INSOMNIA!!

During those years that the Tenno slept, what if the Stalker (We need his real name, dangit! Billy. Billy sounds like a Stalker-esque name.) went about scavenging any pods he could find, killing the Tenno inside, and then disassembling them and integrating them with himself? Granted, that doesn't explain how his body is able to accept this, because the Tenno were 'corrupted' in the Void. Here's my source for that thought: 'We took the twisted few that had returned from that place. We built a frame around them, a conduit of their affliction.' Perhaps he went into the Void himself, without the protective barriers of an Orokin ship, and returned? Furthermore, that doesn't explain HOW being in the Void preps a body to be able to use a Warframe. (Edit on the 'Protective barriers bit': we know that being in the Void can be...wonky. Remember the event that got us Phobos? The Corpus ships were experiencing odd...warps and such. Void storms, if I remember correctly.)

  (This next bit goes off a few of J3's quotes, such as 'We were many.' and 'We are of your flesh.' or somesuch like that. I'm sure you get the point.)

 Perhaps the Technocyte virus that Hayden originally was infected with spread, and nearly grew out of control, so they sent it into the Void? From there, the virus evolved in solitude to the point that it could essentially have a 'hive' mind within itself/became s(S)entient, and found a way back? Then, it simply took whatever the Orokin threw at it, infected it, and turned it back at them? That could explain the Ancients, and how they look nothing like a normal enemy. 

 

 I don't see how that could explain how it could prep the Tenno's bodies though...anyways, holes! Possibly everywhere! I don't plan on using my little theory to hold any water, but I hope it can help someone else come up with an idea.

Edited November 30, 2013 by NixeonLow

[Sixty5]

@Nixeon

 

all very valid points, the Stalker killing pods makes sense, especially since it explains how he can use so many abilities, as well as being immune to them.

[Sixty5]

New thing that supports the fact that the Orokin controlled the Corpus, or at least their precursors.

Braton Prime

This thing has warped my mind for ages. The stadard Braton is not a Tenno weapon, it is made by the Corpus, as evidenced by the writing on the side (it reades Luana Forge or something along those lines)

So how can you have a special Prime varient of a Corpu weapon? The Primes were made long before the Corpus as we know them e,isted right?

Not if the ol' Braton was the standard rifle of Orokin forces (probably in a slightly different configuration though). As seen in game the Braton is a solid rifle, and there is no reason to change a classic overly much. Think AK47, it was originally made and built by the Russians, but even now more are being made, spightly different, but AK47's all Tue same.

Considering the Corpus is a non militaristic faction, it would make sense for them to continue to produce a weapon that just works. Though they have since upgraded to better stuff, I'd guess there would still be plenty of profit in a good all around assault rifle.

Wrote this on my Phone hence no pics and the potential of errors, but wanted to get this out there.

[Kaian-a-coel]

OR the corpus found bratons primes as part of their artifact research (we do know that grineer, corpus and tennos all hunt orokin artifacts), tried to replicate it, and ended up with the "normal" braton.

[Gravefire]

New thing that supports the fact that the Orokin controlled the Corpus, or at least their precursors.

Braton Prime

This thing has warped my mind for ages. The stadard Braton is not a Tenno weapon, it is made by the Corpus, as evidenced by the writing on the side (it reades Luana Forge or something along those lines)

So how can you have a special Prime varient of a Corpu weapon? The Primes were made long before the Corpus as we know them e,isted right?

Not if the ol' Braton was the standard rifle of Orokin forces (probably in a slightly different configuration though). As seen in game the Braton is a solid rifle, and there is no reason to change a classic overly much. Think AK47, it was originally made and built by the Russians, but even now more are being made, spightly different, but AK47's all Tue same.

Considering the Corpus is a non militaristic faction, it would make sense for them to continue to produce a weapon that just works. Though they have since upgraded to better stuff, I'd guess there would still be plenty of profit in a good all around assault rifle.

Wrote this on my Phone hence no pics and the potential of errors, but wanted to get this out there.

Remember my theory about how the Sentient's children could be the corpus or some time of decedents. It could be possible that during the old war some of the sentients got there hands on some. Random guy finds it and a Sentients starts  the corpus.

[MagpieOAO]

Might not be where the topic is at this point but in referance to some people pointing out "The Tenno go after strategically un-important targets and mostly hassle the other empires" I think that Lotus is playing the long game.

The Tenno are quite limited in theory, especially so when compared to the nearly limitless armies of the Grineer and manufactured proxies of the Corpus. We are not capable of holding ANY ground in regards to a total war, occupation standpoint. We can only survive by remaining hidden.

 

For now.

 

Ultimately, by keeping the fighting balanced between Corpus, Grineer and Infested while reviving Tenno and recovering pods, we can keep them in check or even let them wear eachother down until we have the numbers capable of making a signifigant strike.

Or alternatively we may just be interested in keeping balance, or hell, just profit. The longer the conflict goes on, the longer mercenaries like us will be needed.

[bobafetthotmail]

Throwing it around, I have the sneaking suspicion that Sentients were actually some form of AI, and that Stalker or some Orokin guard did blow up the Outer Terminus to cut out Sol system and keep us contained here. In the rest of the galaxy it's businness as usual.

 

New thing that supports the fact that the Orokin controlled the Corpus, or at least their precursors.

Braton Prime

This thing has warped my mind for ages. The stadard Braton is not a Tenno weapon, it is made by the Corpus, as evidenced by the writing on the side (it reades Luana Forge or something along those lines)

So how can you have a special Prime varient of a Corpu weapon? The Primes were made long before the Corpus as we know them e,isted right?

Corpus are probably true descendents of Orokin as they are the only pure humans around, as Orokin are very likely humans as well (because... there are no aliens in the game, it's all artificial stuff if you think about it). When S#&$ hit the fan they probably had BPs and bastardized the design for the sake of making something they could defend themselves with even if they had limited resources. Making a purely mechanical weapon is MUCH easier than anything energy based will ever be. (and will still be able to go toe-to-toe with most if not be outright better)

 

Then Tenno/Lotus come around and steal a few caches of (now) old and surplus corpus weapons, and start beating the living crap out of anyone with them.

 

 

Might not be where the topic is at this point but in referance to some people pointing out "The Tenno go after strategically un-important targets and mostly hassle the other empires" I think that Lotus is playing the long game.

The Tenno are quite limited in theory, especially so when compared to the nearly limitless armies of the Grineer and manufactured proxies of the Corpus. We are not capable of holding ANY ground in regards to a total war, occupation standpoint. We can only survive by remaining hidden.

You are talking of a war of conquest, and we will never have numbers for that. It's also completely against anything the Warframes are.

 

Most were talking of a blitz-krieg genocide. For the latter you only need to destroy critical infrastructure, and let famine and power shortages kill most and weaken everyone in the next decade. Then come again and mop up the remnants.

 

Power plants, cloning facilities, manufacturing plants for complex electronics and all that jazz require multiple years to be rebuilt (or decades, or they may even lack the tech to do so, for Grineer), and are horribly expensive to fix (and very easy to stall if we keep wiping out all their ships). They can have all armies they want, but only so much can engage us in the tight spaces we fight usually, and we can keep it up more or less forever while still advancing or retreating.

 

If you think about it, that's what we were designed to do on Sentients and we did it, and then did again with Orokin, so we have some experience in the trade already.

 

For capture and hold warfare you need more fast-response to rebellion so it is still weak enough to be zerg-rushed than a few Supermen here and there.

As simple as it may seem, your Supermen cannot be everywhere, while mass-produced mooks can, and make up for their weaknesses with numbers because they don't need to fight a massively strong enemy to begin with (as the place has already been occupied and "cleaned" by the Supermen). Supermen can be simply overloaded and made ineffective with clever misinformation strategies, decoys or simple zerg-rushing, as they cannot save 5 Lois Lanes each at the same exact time.

 

So yeah, Tenno were designed as attackers, killers, genociders, not to conquer.

 

And Lotus is using us as a friggin beating stick and to save a bunch of slaves for her fantasies random people we don't even care about in the slightest.

Edited December 1, 2013 by bobafetthotmail

[Mak_Gohae]

New thing that supports the fact that the Orokin controlled the Corpus, or at least their precursors.

Braton Prime

This thing has warped my mind for ages. The stadard Braton is not a Tenno weapon, it is made by the Corpus, as evidenced by the writing on the side (it reades Luana Forge or something along those lines)

So how can you have a special Prime varient of a Corpu weapon? The Primes were made long before the Corpus as we know them e,isted right?

Not if the ol' Braton was the standard rifle of Orokin forces (probably in a slightly different configuration though). As seen in game the Braton is a solid rifle, and there is no reason to change a classic overly much. Think AK47, it was originally made and built by the Russians, but even now more are being made, spightly different, but AK47's all Tue same.

Considering the Corpus is a non militaristic faction, it would make sense for them to continue to produce a weapon that just works. Though they have since upgraded to better stuff, I'd guess there would still be plenty of profit in a good all around assault rifle.

Wrote this on my Phone hence no pics and the potential of errors, but wanted to get this out there.

 

Do remember that not all Orokin stuff disappeared. The Corpus probably found a derelict and took some stuff from there.

[Kaian-a-coel]

Do remember that not all Orokin stuff disappeared. The Corpus probably found a derelict and took some stuff from there.

It's exactly what I was saying not five messages ago! At last, someone who apply Occam's Razor!

[bejuizb]

Now my head hurts.....

[MagpieOAO]

And Lotus is using us as a friggin beating stick and to save a bunch of slaves for her fantasies random people we don't even care about in the slightest.

Yeah, basically in agreement with what you said. The Tenno are incapable of fighting conventional battles, especiallly in the solar scale of the grineer and corpus, but they are capable of striking key points.

I don't think Lotus is using is to screw around, so much as to simply keep the two factions balanced against one another. We aren't striking decisively at either considering that would give a massive advantage the other faction would captialize on and then wipe out the system (including us).

 

So for now, she keeps things balanced and bides her time, obtaining more Tenno and tech to augment her forces.

[TheWolfMo]

For me it seems that the Tenno were mindcontrolled by the Orokin and broke free/got freed of this Indoctrination. In the Lore about the Stalker, he says the Tenno "werent stoic and silent". That gives me the idea that the Tenno were supposed to be controlled/ indoctrinated Killingmachines, with no purpose besides eliminating the Sentients. What kinda strengthens me in that belief is the way he describes the Orokin as cold and breathless.

 

Now the reason Tenno killed all the Orokin could either be

1. We got corrupted by the sentients to kill them when they thought the war was won.

2. Since we're Machines, programmed only for war, we killed the Orokin to create new room for more war. Considering that after the Sentientwar was won we wouldve been purposeless and might have gotten destroyed if we didnt act.

3. We broke the Indoctrination and realized that the Orokin enslaving and controlling others were the real threat. To free the Solarsystem from them we slayed them all. Then we put ourselves into cryostasis, so we could reawaken to see if Humanity (or whats left of it) has filled the Powervacuum following the Slaughter, with a better system. And if not help to maintain a balance or support the better "candidate".

 

Following the thought of Indoctrinated Soldiers and their purpose as mere tools leads us to Corpus and Grineer.

If Soldiers were mere tools then why even bother raising them? Just create a giant clonearmy, less cost in training, less "growth"-time and easy to replace. The Remnants of that army became the Grineer, using their "Supply"technology to strengthen their numbers and to do what they were created for: Fight and conquer the Solarsystem. Maybe these Twinqueens we hear so much about are actually Orokin survivors, high military personal, that tried to seize power in the wake of the slaughter.

 

The Corpus are either remnants of a different Field of the Orokins (maybe scientist considering that they love energyguns) that continued to use Indoctrination. Or they are just mere Humans, freed from the Orokin that found Indoctrination temples and stuff and learned how to use it for their purpose. Either way, after the slaughter they tried to regain control over some parts of the Empire and hunt for Orokin artifacts and, of course, warframecryopods, since we were the greatest achievment and failure of the old Orokin. (Seeing that only we ended the war but also killed all of em :P)

 

For Infected: i recall that there were some Lotus quotes in mission  and especially for the J3-Golem that mentioned that the Orokin created the Golem and probably the Technocytevirus (or just released it considering its been around since Dark Sector) to battle the Sentients. That either left the virus to go haywire and just spread and eat and fester (what viruses do best) or it got turned by the sentients aswell.

[bobafetthotmail]

I don't think Lotus is using is to screw around, so much as to simply keep the two factions balanced against one another. We aren't striking decisively at either considering that would give a massive advantage the other faction would captialize on and then wipe out the system (including us).

 

You can also nibble away at their stuff piece-mail to keep them roughly balanced while also weakening them both at the same time. Maybe dropping false evidence to place the blame on the other faction (True stealth missions! Yay!).

 

Which is also easier to do and a more failure tolerant plan, as it's highly unlikely they will keep all their stuff in the same place and/or we have the manpower to nuke all their critical infrastructure at once.

 

So no, I still mantain that Lotus found a Tenno Control Manual laying somewhere and is using us for her own ends. (like piracy,  kidnaps, assassinations and whatnot for the highest bidder)

Edited December 1, 2013 by bobafetthotmail

[SOWONDERFUL]

Dark Sector DOES have something to do with the lore. Things may seem jumbled up and confusing now, but that's only due to the gaping holes in the informtion as of now. Livestream 10 confirmed that Hayden Tenno was the first "Tenno" and I think the Technocyte virus had something to do with the virus in Hayden's arm. The virus was utilized by the Orokin, which was founded by Hayden Tenno, so yes, the Technocyte Plagues was started by the Orokin....

idkidkidkidkidk i reaaaaally dont know lol. nobody is right at this point because i'm sure only a fraction of the lore is released. Warframe is still a beta, so techinically the game isn't even complete yet lol. The lore is probably still under development

[fatpig84]

My Braton theory ?

 

The Braton Prime (the original of course) was too difficult to produce for the Corpus.

So the Corpus tried to make a scale down one.

 

Viola the MK1 Braton.

 

However even with a slower rate of fire and using smaller lighter bullets (less recoil, more shots per mag), the rifle still had too much recoil and required more training for their limp wrist brainwashed crew men.

 

Hence the they went on to develop of recoil less energy weapons.

 

Tenno however have handled this weapon before in the past as it was the Orokin standard rifle, so this is of almost 2nd nature to them. Even though it isn't the exact model they are used to.

 

Coupled with their super human musculature, the Tenno can soak up the rifle recoil and weight really well so the Lotus stole the blueprints off the Corpus and went off to manufacture the Mk1 Braton.

 

Then she went on to produce the standard Braton.

Edited December 2, 2013 by fatpig84

[Playur]

But what about the potato? That is the question. 

[Sixty5]

But what about the potato? That is the question. 

Potato's are condensed Orokin technology that reinforce the energy systems of the item in question, allowing for greater energy flow through said object. They also increase the power output of said object.

 

Potatoing a gun is like overclocking your computer.

[Kaokasalis]

I see the Orokin as humans/aliens that have become machines though cybernetic enhancements due to either fear of death or possibly a obsession with becoming something greater. Its also possible its a mixture of both though. The reason i see them as this is duo to how the Stalker describes the orokin as gold, cold and breathless. Another piece is also in Excaliburs lore with how the Orokin mention themselves becoming more advanced and how the Sentients turns their own weapons against them. The Sentients are probaly Orokin AIs that gained sentience and went rouge on the Orokin for some reason hence the name "Sentients". If the Orokin are humans/aliens that have enhanced themselves i could see them having a pretty screwed up morality since they did create the Technocyte Virus to fight the sentients. I wouldnt be surprised if they kept slaves or is behind the cloning technology the Grineer uses. Its probaly the reason the Tenno turned on them as i think the process of becoming a Tenno is not entirely harmless and might be very painful. The Tenno themselves might not have wanted to become Tenno in the first place or not have wanted to fight on behalf of the Orokin in the war. I am not going to be surprised if its true that the Tenno held a grugde after the war. It could also be the Orokin were planing to do away with them silently after the war as they probaly didnt have a use for them anymore and feared them for what they are since they defeated the Sentients that the Orokin themselves could not defeat. Excaliburs lore mention them as twisted rejects before they became the Tenno.

[Playur]

Potato's are condensed Orokin technology that reinforce the energy systems of the item in question, allowing for greater energy flow through said object. They also increase the power output of said object.

 

Potatoing a gun is like overclocking your computer.

 

I love you. 

[Sixty5]

I love you. 

<3

 

The sad thing is when you try to potato your potato of a computer.

[Freelancer27]

It's interesting that the Orokin is know to be the Golden Age of Humanity, succeeding the Dark Sector storyline as an evolution of progress.

 

As evolution is spoken, assuming that the Orokin lives separately from Grineer and Corpus due to their own greed for power and fortune respectively actually gave me pondering how the Orokin managed to get so attractive, especially the Corpus. Knowing they keep calling the Tenno the "Betrayers", gave me thoughts that the Tenno are known threat against Orokin since the very beginning.

 

On the contrary, the Orokin towers seem to have these Parkour rooms, which are surprisingly built specifically for the Tenno which could mean that the Tenno are created by the Orokin, or simply adopted by the Orokin as their own.

 

As far as the theory is original discussed, this seems to make decent sense for me.

[Kaokasalis]

On the contrary, the Orokin towers seem to have these Parkour rooms, which are surprisingly built specifically for the Tenno which could mean that the Tenno are created by the Orokin, or simply adopted by the Orokin as their own.

It was kinda already confirmed that the Orokin did create the Tenno on the site description for the Tenno before even the codex was released and now we have confirmation with the codex.

[bobafetthotmail]

Potato's are condensed Orokin technology that reinforce the energy systems of the item in question, allowing for greater energy flow through said object. They also increase the power output of said object.

 

Potatoing a gun is like overclocking your computer.

Because Bratons and other fully mechanical weapons, or ones without even moving parts like melee, have energy subsystems and power output.