I have deep fear upgrading guns (especially kitguns)

[Faultron]

My warframe looks almost like a noob and the reason is that i dont know which gun is worth upgrading. I tried to combat this by looking up  youtube videos and dps calculation sites, but to be honest i am more confused than ever. Not to mention half of the info is outdated or wrong lot of time on the internet.

https://warframe-damage.com/en/

and

https://overframe.gg/
https://semlar.com/

both have very different results when i compare the weapons, and not only by numbers, but complete opposite weapon "order".
 

I wanted to make the best kitguns for myself for example. I saw most players recommending for cathmoon primary the tremor and splat. Now i tried using calculator for this, i tried compare with 10 other builds and on overframe vs damage.com. The results are funny cos on overframe Tremor+splat was the best or second, but in damage.com it was performing very badly,  like the worst option to go for, no matter what setup i used.

How should i know what guns are now good enough and where i can measure damage of guns? What i can trust?

I want to know what is best for catchmoon primary and is it even worth doing it in 2024. My opinion now is that Tremor/brash+ramflare is best vs trash/general mobs. However i prefer brash since i hate recoil and i use all my guns with hipfire, and i planning to use pax charge+ recoil mod in exilus. I also prefer not to do headshot builds.

The slow reload with pax charge is still a big question and i am very worried about it. (warframe wiki says its 5 ammo/sec instead of 50 ammo/sec)

I crafted 2 kitgun: moon+tremor+ramflare and moon+brash+macro thymoid. My idea was that no matter how much powerful splat or ramflare etc... are, sustained fire and reload will be issue there, especially when using pax charge, so decided doing macro. My theory was that in real mission brash+macro thymoid will perform and comfort me better, based on experience i have with other guns. I kill all mobs, than i have a time for reload was my vision. ("Cmoon doesnt have shell load, so big magazine is needed")

 

I also want to know, if for gaze/vermisplicer secondary do i rly need to go for ramble (again i see this most of the time) or haymaker has enough range to do all the content without any issue. Or should i go for at least lovetap/ulnaris? (i will use Ruinous Extension) Is there any content where i need more than 29 meter range actually? On secondary it could be useful i agree since my primary guns are usually low range weapons(shotguns), and in open world maps bigger range is actually useful, but other than this? Is there some special content where i need 30+ range minimum? Especially for me who prefer play with hipfire and i think my shooting habit is that, i dont rly shoot things past 30 anyway unless i am forced somehow.
Secondary kitgun is something i want to do for sure since it can give some good setup combos actually even if not top tier powerhouse, its still worth using.

[Venus-Venera]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Faultron:

My warframe looks almost like a noob and the reason is that i dont know which gun is worth upgrading. I tried to combat this by looking up  youtube videos and dps calculation sites, but to be honest i am more confused than ever. Not to mention half of the info is outdated or wrong lot of time on the internet.

https://warframe-damage.com/en/

and

https://overframe.gg/
https://semlar.com/

both have very different results when i compare the weapons, and not only by numbers, but complete opposite weapon "order".
 

I wanted to make the best kitguns for myself for example. I saw most players recommending for cathmoon primary the tremor and splat. Now i tried using calculator for this, i tried compare with 10 other builds and on overframe vs damage.com. The results are funny cos on overframe Tremor+splat was the best or second, but in damage.com it was performing very badly,  like the worst option to go for, no matter what setup i used.

How should i know what guns are now good enough and where i can measure damage of guns? What i can trust?

I want to know what is best for catchmoon primary and is it even worth doing it in 2024. My opinion now is that Tremor/brash+ramflare is best vs trash/general mobs. However i prefer brash since i hate recoil and i use all my guns with hipfire, and i planning to use pax charge+ recoil mod in exilus. I also prefer not to do headshot builds.

The slow reload with pax charge is still a big question and i am very worried about it. (warframe wiki says its 5 ammo/sec instead of 50 ammo/sec)

I crafted 2 kitgun: moon+tremor+ramflare and moon+brash+macro thymoid. My idea was that no matter how much powerful splat or ramflare etc... are, sustained fire and reload will be issue there, especially when using pax charge, so decided doing macro. My theory was that in real mission brash+macro thymoid will perform and comfort me better, based on experience i have with other guns. I kill all mobs, than i have a time for reload was my vision. ("Cmoon doesnt have shell load, so big magazine is needed")

 

I also want to know, if for gaze/vermisplicer secondary do i rly need to go for ramble (again i see this most of the time) or haymaker has enough range to do all the content without any issue. Or should i go for at least lovetap/ulnaris? (i will use Ruinous Extension) Is there any content where i need more than 29 meter range actually? On secondary it could be useful i agree since my primary guns are usually low range weapons(shotguns), and in open world maps bigger range is actually useful, but other than this? Is there some special content where i need 30+ range minimum? Especially for me who prefer play with hipfire and i think my shooting habit is that, i dont rly shoot things past 30 anyway unless i am forced somehow.
Secondary kitgun is something i want to do for sure since it can give some good setup combos actually even if not top tier powerhouse, its still worth using.

I would also advise against this because the topic is too complicated and you have to know what useful values are and what behavior of the weapon is important in the end.
You should be extremely careful with videos!.... there is almost always too much hype, blah-blah and information is outdated or even completely lies. because the game is constantly changing.

It's better to stick with usual weapons and unlock a top Incarnon weapon for Steel Path.

and you don't play kuva/tenet content yet? Because that's where you can get useful weapons. By the way, certain weapons there are extremely good.

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Tenet#Tenet_Weapons

https://warframe.fandom.com/wiki/Kuva_Lich/Rewards#Kuva_Weapons

[Gelos.Prime]

If you are asking this question about kitguns, then - respectfully - I would suggest that you learn more about upgrading standard weapons in the game before getting involved in the various options configuring kitguns.

The brief guidelines I would offer are:

(1) Earn and level up various Prime weapons

(2) Never sell a Prime weapon.  Once leveled-up, keep it forever

(3) Add Forma to your Prime weapons to power them up and note the relationships and tradeoffs between Critical Chance & Critical Damage vs. Status Chance & Status Damage, along with such other variables as Fire Rate and Attack Speed

The power of kitguns is you can assemble whatever type of weapon you would like.  But the challenge is knowing what the characteristics of that weapon should be.

Experimenting with Prime weapons is cheap:  It only costs Forma.  But kitguns tend to take more involved resources to farm and build.  Once you've experimented with Prime weapons and know the characteristics you want, I think it will be much easier to then take an angle on building the kitgun you'd like.

Hope this helps!

[(XBOX)Player244024418]

On 2024-05-28 at 10:36 AM, Faultron said:

Is there any content where i need more than 29 meter range actually

On open worlds to unlock rivens or shoot stuff from 100m away yes. But this would be with sniper rifles and you wouldn't use a beam wep.

On 2024-05-28 at 10:36 AM, Faultron said:

slow reload with pax charge

My favorite secondary is a kitgun and most of my kitguns use pax charge. A kitgun with pax charge is great for some bosses when you're newer and don't have powerful weps. You don't want to run out if ammo in a boss fight.

All i will add is you'll eventually have +100 weps so don't sweat it. Part if the game is experiencing the grind and the complexity of all the stuff

[PollexMessier]

Yeah weapon stats are a huge learning curve. Anything recent is typically good enough to use but it varies. Very very few weapons have ever been in a position where they're good for years. They always release something better eventually, so the longevity of a weapon is not the most useful thing to worry about. Forma and Catalysts are fairly easy to get nowadays

Strun prime is currently a very very solid thing to aim for. It's extremely powerful on it's own, and has an incarnon upgrade you can get later that just makes it ridiculous

Any of the kuva and tenet weapons are very serviceable. Anything from the Zariman or Duviri are quite strong. Currently the strongest general group of weapons in the game are incarnons. Anything that can get an incarnon adapter is a pretty future-proof choice, tho many of them are pretty terrible weapons before you can get the upgrade. And as with any group of weapons, some are better than others.

A couple good general rules tho are if the weapon has a variant (Ie Prisma, wraith, vandal, prime, kuva, tenet, one of the syndicate variants, ext ext) the base version of that weapon is not worth upgrading because the variant is almost definitely stronger. And if it's critical and status chance are both below 15% it's borderline unusable unless it can be upgraded to incarnon later. Ideally one of those two stats should be 25% or higher.

As for kitguns... I'm not sure if they're even really all that good anymore but as many have said, if you don't understand all the stats very well you're going to have a rough time with them.

Edited May 30 by PollexMessier

[Venus-Venera]

I remembered some important information yesterday:
This kitguns content is very old. Back then they were THE BEST weapons in the game. But over time the same thing happens as with Kuva Bramma - the weapons are completely ruined.
There are very playable combinations. However, I have built all the items in the game for a long time and equipped almost all of them with max formas. So I can compare very well. And kitguns only perform with unique builds and even then they are rather unsatisfactory.

So good luck

[Prexades]

First, kit-guns are not completely ruined. They are still very much viable. The biggest issue I have with them personally is that kitgun primaries don't have weapon skins and the basic design looks like an interns first attempt at welding some junk together. That doesn't make the weapon unusable.

Same with Bramma, just because they can't constantly spam AoE explosions in everybodies face without caring about ammo means the weapon is 'unuseable'.

[Venus-Venera]

here are the facts:

1. i haven't seen a single kuva bramma/ogris in public for 2 years. and i play every day.
2. my account was created in 2013. my necros with carrier (etc) only runs around with mele for 80-90% of mission time because bramma has no ammo. and because of shield gate bramma needs 2 shots.
3. helmith skill for ammo belongs in the trash can.

and this is about new players. is checking his profile too much to ask?
also the above mentioned clown weapons do ridiculous damage without the best mods. does he have these mods maxed? (rhetorical question)

that's why i think it's absolutely not right that new players are being lied to here. but stick with it if it makes you happy. 👎

[MutoManiac]

The only kitgun worth building is the Sporelacer as a secondary. All the other ones are meh. The Sporelacer is soooooo good! Try to get a riven for to make it even better. In open worlds forget your necramech, go into archwing and carpet bomb everything. Get the battery arcane and you never run out of ammo.

[Gelos.Prime]

20 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

and this is about new players. is checking his profile too much to ask?

I checked OP's profile.  OP's join date is April 24, 2013, the same year as your account creation.  (How about that?!)  Appears they are a returning player, not new.  According to one of their posts, they have "over 1400 hrs in warframe."

20 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

that's why i think it's absolutely not right that new players are being lied to here. but stick with it if it makes you happy.

Kitguns are still viable, but due to power creep in other weapons over the years have moved into more special-case configurations.  That's not a lie.

[Venus-Venera]

vor 19 Minuten schrieb Gelos.Prime:

I checked OP's profile.  OP's join date is April 24, 2013, the same year as your account creation.  (How about that?!)

in the game

[Caerith]

21 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

i haven't seen a single kuva bramma/ogris in public for 2 years

Kuva Ogris is my "go to" gun for exterminates and just about any content that needs killing large crowds of enemies, and it isn't fully built.  I'm not sure why shade is being thrown its way. 

Kitguns are still very viable, but I think they're hurt by being "locked in" builds with no room for experimentation.  If we could go and swap around the components freely like how we can swap incarnon upgrades they would be a lot friendlier. 

[Gelos.Prime]

21 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

i haven't seen a single kuva bramma/ogris in public for 2 years. and i play every day.

After the relatively recent companion upgrades, I completed a little mini-project where I created around 20 loadouts, syncing warframes with specific weapons and upgraded companions.  I assigned a Kuva Ogris to my Oberon and have been very happy with the results.

[Venus-Venera]

vor einer Stunde schrieb Gelos.Prime:

After the relatively recent companion upgrades, I completed a little mini-project where I created around 20 loadouts, syncing warframes with specific weapons and upgraded companions.  I assigned a Kuva Ogris to my Oberon and have been very happy with the results.

I played with Kuva Ogris for a long time until it was completely ruined. I even have UT skin etc.
and to be honest: how about a test?

we spawn 20x elite lvl 190 SP heavy units (shield+armor) and then you take your loadout and count seconds until everyone is dead.

and then I come with Saryn and will only shoot with my unlimited ammo tenet secondary weapon. how long do you think it will take me? 3 seconds max! and that for all 20x!

Edited May 31 by Venus-Venera

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

23 hours ago, Venus-Venera said:

here are the facts:

1. i haven't seen a single kuva bramma/ogris in public for 2 years. and i play every day.
2. my account was created in 2013. my necros with carrier (etc) only runs around with mele for 80-90% of mission time because bramma has no ammo. and because of shield gate bramma needs 2 shots.
3. helmith skill for ammo belongs in the trash can.

and this is about new players. is checking his profile too much to ask?
also the above mentioned clown weapons do ridiculous damage without the best mods. does he have these mods maxed? (rhetorical question)

that's why i think it's absolutely not right that new players are being lied to here. but stick with it if it makes you happy. 👎

The ogris is probably the most popular weapon to run in arbitrations, it’s very much still a used and viable weapon.

Edited May 31 by (PSN)FrDiabloFr

[(PSN)FrDiabloFr]

17 minutes ago, Venus-Venera said:

played with Kuva Ogris for a long time until it was completely ruined.

It just isn’t though

[Zakkhar]

On 2024-05-30 at 3:03 AM, (XBOX)Player244024418 said:

On 2024-05-28 at 5:36 PM, Faultron said:

Is there any content where i need more than 29 meter range actually

On open worlds to unlock rivens or shoot stuff from 100m away yes. But this would be with sniper rifles and you wouldn't use a beam wep.

You assume he is gonna attack one thing at the end of the beam, while completly neglecting the possibility of modding the weapon with punch through, which instead makes it into a lightsaber. 29 meters seems high enough, but who wouldnt want even longer lightsaber?