Misinterpretation of the meaning

[Skygan915]

First of all. Yeah, we all know everyone are talking about the pregnant Jade like it's the main point of the quest. It's not. The child is the thing through which Stalker have to change. Stalker and his actions are the main points of the quest. Dude goes to who the hell knows where to get things to help Jade and as far we know they're the original Warframes. They're not piloted by the Tenno which makes it even worse. They suffered enough, we saw how brutal transformation into a Warframe is. Jade was turned when she was pregnant and this kid may be killing her like operator said. We don't know how this works in Warframe. Stalker knows how to resolve things through violence. Hunhow wasn't helping the case, he was fueling already raging fire at this point. Jade was the only thing that keeped his sanity by last strings. 

Second of all. We now know that Stalker was a loyal servant to the Orokin, his hatred toward the Warframes isn't redeemed in any way and yet he still had some good in him. He's more than devoted to Jade to put his life in danger. If he dies, that's it. Stalker isn't the Warframe we use as a Operator. He's still Sorren even after all these years. And now he have a different purpose, as a father. 

Corpus not shooting Sorren...

Jesus Christ. Guys. Come on. First of all - it's a game. Second of all, remember what quest have you played until this point. What good will come to Corpus after killing Stalker? Nothing. It's a kid. And on top of it all, they have no rights to know if this kid is a Warframe, some hybrid or whatever else it is. Main goal of Sisters of Parvos is - to quote it - "Sisters seek to fulfill Parvos's desire in having a reliable sibling..."

Corpus may be the capitalist maniacs, but to shoot a kid is to Sister like betraying her own code. If that was a treasure, some rare schematics, unknown resource. She would order her troops to turn Sorren into paste there. It's just a context that lies under the flying bullets ffs. Try to read the context for once. 

 

And don't start me on this "Stalker was always edgy and he shouldn't be a loving father!1!!1!1!1"

Stalker was shocked when he saw what Warframe really are. He gave us Nataruk. He helped us with Archon. He changed. Just like the players. Operators aren't a defenseless kids anymore and Stalker... Sorry, Sorren isn't just a mindless killer. 

[Boghadir]

Nobody cares about the message or his actions.  What was important was discovering the origins and reasons behind the Stalker and we get a quest about his wife/lover, not him.  His actions in retrospect of asking the Tenno don't matter because he already is capable of not killing the Tenno, he did it in the New War and he does it in Duviri.

His actions are meaningless and his forgiveness is a temporary respite that muddles around terrible plot direction and a complete lack of oversight and purpose to why we even have these.

[matt11mz]

31 minutes ago, Boghadir said:

Nobody cares about the message or his actions.  What was important was discovering the origins and reasons behind the Stalker and we get a quest about his wife/lover, not him.  His actions in retrospect of asking the Tenno don't matter because he already is capable of not killing the Tenno, he did it in the New War and he does it in Duviri.

His actions are meaningless and his forgiveness is a temporary respite that muddles around terrible plot direction and a complete lack of oversight and purpose to why we even have these.

But looking at the lore so far, this does give us a lot of details about Stalker/Sorren. Jade is, more than likely, the reason why Sorren became Stalker. The Orokin forbid their relationship and they got caught. When we read that Stalker couldn't get the words out to warn the Orokin when he noticed the Tenno waiting to strike, we know that this is because he literally could not speak, "Ballas decided that warframes cannot speak, as a rule." Maybe his blind loyalty is what's keeping him sentient like Umbra. Another possibility is that it is the fate of Jade that keeps him in control. Maybe that's what the final choice is all about. Abandon his hate of the Tenno, his Orokin service, or abandon his wife's memory, the last good in him.

[Boghadir]

Had nothing to do with not being able to speak, he can speak, he just doesn't want to.  Adding Jade as a reason is retroactivrly trying to provide substance to a character that had none and fails.  The meaning is lost in bad execution and plot points that exist because someone thought they were good when they're not.

[40PE]

9 hours ago, Boghadir said:

Nobody cares about the message or his actions.  What was important was discovering the origins and reasons behind the Stalker and we get a quest about his wife/lover, not him.  His actions in retrospect of asking the Tenno don't matter because he already is capable of not killing the Tenno, he did it in the New War and he does it in Duviri.

His actions are meaningless and his forgiveness is a temporary respite that muddles around terrible plot direction and a complete lack of oversight and purpose to why we even have these.

We meet again @Boghadir and again I agree. OP this mini story MIGHT HAVE worked if they put more work into it. Start with who is stalker what made him the way he is, give the sense of devastation and frenetic hunting tenno through the Galaxy a meaning first. I don't expect a game of thrones from D.E. but this is BAD.

I personally just ignore the story like it never happened in my mind just as the new war. In my mind that never happened either.

Edited June 19 by 40PE

[Pakaku]

There's a lot of meaning but in the end it doesn't feel like it mattered in the big picture. We had questions about the Stalker, and it just feels like the quest only tried to answer questions it made up itself.

Edited June 19 by Pakaku

[Gaxxian]

This was a quest that suppossedly was made to learn more about Stalker.

The questions about Stalker i had before the quest:

- Is he a warframe and how is he conscious if he is?
- Who he was and how he turn into what he is now?
- Why he hate the tenno?
- Why is he working together with Hunhow? (i understand that both have the tenno as enemies, but how their alliance started?)
- Who are the acolytes?

The "questions" about Stalker that the quest answered:

- His name? (who cared?)
- He had a lover/girlfriend/idk DE don't care to tell us? (who cared?)
- He is a father? (nobody asked this before and this arise even more answers... but DE don't care to answer those either)

But yeah, we are clearly misinterpreting a lot here.

[Drachnyn]

vor 13 Stunden schrieb Skygan915:

Jesus Christ. Guys. Come on. First of all - it's a game. Second of all, remember what quest have you played until this point. What good will come to Corpus after killing Stalker? Nothing. It's a kid. And on top of it all, they have no rights to know if this kid is a Warframe, some hybrid or whatever else it is. Main goal of Sisters of Parvos is - to quote it - "Sisters seek to fulfill Parvos's desire in having a reliable sibling..."

Corpus may be the capitalist maniacs, but to shoot a kid is to Sister like betraying her own code. If that was a treasure, some rare schematics, unknown resource. She would order her troops to turn Sorren into paste there. It's just a context that lies under the flying bullets ffs. Try to read the context for once. 

It is going against regular corpus leadership behavior. We'd expect corpus leaders to try to dissect this child for any and all valuable information and in this context specifically for any traces of the jade energy. The sister the stalker encounters apparently has some moral objections and seemingly isnt a hyper zealot anyway given her other dialogue. How much sense this makes depends on what DE does with her. If we learn at some point that this got her into massive trouble with parvos then the story is going to be fine. On the other hand if parvos finds out about it and does nothing to punish her, then yea that's gonna be a problem.

[Thanatos9t]

1 hour ago, Gaxxian said:

This was a quest that suppossedly was made to learn more about Stalker.

The questions about Stalker i had before the quest:

- Is he a warframe and how is he conscious if he is?
- Who he was and how he turn into what he is now?
- Why he hate the tenno?
- Why is he working together with Hunhow? (i understand that both have the tenno as enemies, but how their alliance started?)
- Who are the acolytes?

The "questions" about Stalker that the quest answered:

- His name? (who cared?)
- He had a lover/girlfriend/idk DE don't care to tell us? (who cared?)
- He is a father? (nobody asked this before and this arise even more answers... but DE don't care to answer those either)

But yeah, we are clearly misinterpreting a lot here.

In regards to "Is he a warframe and how is he conscious if he is?" yes he is and in regards to his consciousness, go play or watch 'The Sacrifice' quest, the original Warframes were actual people mutated by the Orokin into living bio weapons using the Helminth strain to fight the infested, an example of this is seen during the Sacrifice when Ballas turned a Dax Soldier into Excalibur Umbra against his will.

Because they had a sense of self awareness there were many cases of Warframes turning on their masters until the Tenno were used to control them through Transference and used to win the Old War.

The Warframes we create in the Foundry in Warframe are empty shells based on templates of these original infested-hybrid people.

It seems that you also missed some of the dialog in the quest to the dialog when you get to Lua as "Who he was and how he turn into what he is now?" can be answered by reading/listening to the dialog.

He was Sorren and his lover Jade were in a forbidden relationship that they would be punished for if they were found out by his Orokin Lords as he was a low warrior, obviously both were caught and punished by being turned into Warframes against their will, like the previously mentioned Dax being turned into Excalibur Umbra.

 

[Gaxxian]

hace 10 minutos, Thanatos9t dijo:

In regards to "Is he a warframe and how is he conscious if he is?" yes he is and in regards to his consciousness, go play or watch 'The Sacrifice' quest, the original Warframes were actual people mutated by the Orokin into living bio weapons using the Helminth strain to fight the infested, an example of this is seen during the Sacrifice when Ballas turned a Dax Soldier into Excalibur Umbra against his will.

Where it was officially confirmed? Why he has consciousness then? We know why Umbra has consciousness, but why Stalker? Where is his tenno? He was a Dax? Was Jade a Dax? Somebody was a Dax?

hace 10 minutos, Thanatos9t dijo:

Because they had a sense of self awareness there were many cases of Warframes turning on their masters until the Tenno were used to control them through Transference and used to win the Old War.

He was built before the Tenno? Where is that confirmed? How he didn't got mentally broken as all the other warframes while the Orokin tried to control them? He was loyal? He wasn't?

hace 10 minutos, Thanatos9t dijo:

It seems that you also missed some of the dialog in the quest to the dialog when you get to Lua as "Who he was and how he turn into what he is now?" can be answered by reading/listening to the dialog.

If its the case and i missed the dialog, i will not replay that bs again just for one or two lines of dialog.

You did read/listen to them, so answer please. Who he was and who he is now? Appart from "dad" and his name there is anything else?

hace 10 minutos, Thanatos9t dijo:

He was Sorren and his lover Jade were in a forbidden relationship that they would be punished for if they were found out by his Orokin Lords as he was a low warrior, obviously both were caught and punished by being turned into Warframes against their will, like the previously mentioned Dax being turned into Excalibur Umbra.

It was forbidden their relationship or the pregnancy? And why? Where is confirmed that he was a warrior and she didnt?

 

It seems to me like you are just doing wild deductions based on preexisting lore about OTHER things and extrapolating the info here. But officially, about Stalker, we know nothing.

Edited June 19 by Gaxxian

[ExaltedZoro]

7 minutes ago, Gaxxian said:

Where it was officially confirmed? Why he has consciousness then? We know why Umbra has consciousness, but why Stalker? Where is his tenno? He was a Dax? Was Jade a Dax? Somebody was a Dax?

It's not explicitly confirmed that he is a frame but it isn't difficult to come to that conclusion based off the context clues. As for why he's conscious, it's been confirmed in multiple quests and leverian entries that the original versions of the Warframes all still possessed sentience and self-awareness. The frames that we make are mere copies of the body, not the mind, meaning that they don't have any kind of sentience. Neither one was a Dax. Stalker and Jade are original frames just like Umbra except they kept their identity and sense of self after the transformation. It just so happened that Umbra was a Dax

13 minutes ago, Gaxxian said:

He was built before the Tenno? Where is that confirmed? How he didn't got mentally broken as all the other warframes while the Orokin tried to control them? He was loyal? He wasn't?

Almost all of the Warframes were built before the Tenno arrived from the Void, as stated in the Sacrifice. "We had created monsters we couldn't control.......until they came". He wasn't mentally broken in the same way Dante wasn't mentally broken, or really any of the other frames with Leverian entries. Sure, there were other frames that were broken but that was due to the torture the Orokin inflicted on them in an attempt to control them when they turned out to not be very happy with their current position. Stalker was loyal to the Orokin and continued to serve them after his transformation. Some people took the frame treatment willingly, remember.

18 minutes ago, Gaxxian said:

If its the case and i missed the dialog, i will not replay that bs again just for one or two lines of dialog.

You did read/listen to them, so answer please. Who he was and who he is now? Appart from "dad" and his name there is anything else?

He was Sorren, a Low Guardian. A servant to the Orokin. He illegally sired a child with Jade, and as punishment, both were transformed into Warframes. He continued to serve his Orokin masters until the Fall, before which he learned of the Tenno plot to overthrow but could not warn them of it. He fought against the Tenno at the Fall and was beaten before Jade spared and rescued him. His guilt for being unable to save his masters turned into his hatred for the Tenno as he went into hiding and nursed his dying lover and mother of his child.

27 minutes ago, Gaxxian said:

It was forbidden their relationship or the pregnancy? And why? Where is confirmed that he was a warrior and she didnt?

I don't think it's confirmed which was forbidden, but it doesn't entirely matter. They were probably part of different social castes, and therefore unable to be together. It's confirmed who he was in the description of the chest armour you get from the event store.

32 minutes ago, Gaxxian said:

It seems to me like you are just doing wild deductions based on preexisting lore about OTHER things and extrapolating the info here. But officially, about Stalker, we know nothing.

The key thing that we now know about Stalker is that he IS a Warframe (specifically one of the originals), which allows us to learn about him as we already know what the Warframes are and how they came to be. Sure, we're extrapolating a bit but that's what you do in almost any game story or story in general. If everything was spoon fed it wouldn't be nearly as satisfying as if we pieced it together ourselves.

[matt11mz]

5 hours ago, Gaxxian said:

This was a quest that suppossedly was made to learn more about Stalker.

The questions about Stalker i had before the quest:

- Is he a warframe and how is he conscious if he is?
- Who he was and how he turn into what he is now?
- Why he hate the tenno?
- Why is he working together with Hunhow? (i understand that both have the tenno as enemies, but how their alliance started?)
- Who are the acolytes?

The "questions" about Stalker that the quest answered:

- His name? (who cared?)
- He had a lover/girlfriend/idk DE don't care to tell us? (who cared?)
- He is a father? (nobody asked this before and this arise even more answers... but DE don't care to answer those either)

But yeah, we are clearly misinterpreting a lot here.

1. He is a Warframe, and while not explicitly stated, we know from the Sacrifice that if someone has a powerful memory to hold on to, they retain their sanity enough to maintain sentience. For Umbra, it was the memory of being forced to murder his son. For Stalker, we can only speculate, but it is most likely seeing/knowing that his pregnant lover was being turned into a warframe.

2. He was Sorren, a low guardian who violated a legum by having a relationship with Jade. (whether this is a law or a rule, I'm not sure, and I don't care to look it up since it only makes a semantic difference). The pair becoming warframes was likely his concequence.

3. Still not totally clear (in fact, Hunhows's point on it being strange is a bit stronger with what we know now), but most likely, he stuck to his duty. This isn't a unique concept, Dagath wanted revenge on those who hurt her, but as a warframe, even while aware, she only remembered her judgement and condemnation.

4 That is explored in Reaper's Lament. They both failed in their respective goals. Stalker failed to protect his Golden Masters, Hunhow failed to kill them. At first, it was as simple of an "enemy of my enemy" relationship, in the quest, Hunhow elaborates on Stalker's blind hatred being why he was so useful, he wouldn't saw no to a chance to kill the Tenno in spite of who's helping him do that. Now, Stalker just wants another bitter soul to talk to, even if Hunhow is trying to move past that.

5. Idk, they are his "family," as implied by Hunhow, but who they are and if they have any real connection aside from his assassins is unknown (at least from me not having found the game until after their debut operation).

[Gaxxian]

Yeah, yeah, and clearly the Indoctrination Theory explained every hole at the ending of Mass Effect 3... until EA made the clarification and people clearly overthough everything.

Just as that example, I'm sure that any explanation you are pulling out from your deductive asses is 100% canon, even when you use definitions from that you have no idea of their meaning (like Low Guardian or Legum). But since its not explicitly told into the quest, everything will remain as "presumably", "supposedly" or "probably".

[Thanatos9t]

1 hour ago, Gaxxian said:

Yeah, yeah, and clearly the Indoctrination Theory explained every hole at the ending of Mass Effect 3... until EA made the clarification and people clearly overthough everything.

Just as that example, I'm sure that any explanation you are pulling out from your deductive asses is 100% canon, even when you use definitions from that you have no idea of their meaning (like Low Guardian or Legum). But since its not explicitly told into the quest, everything will remain as "presumably", "supposedly" or "probably".

Legum is an actual latin word, it's the Latin plural word for Law, if you study law you earn an LLB.

‘LLB’ is the abbreviation for the Bachelor of Laws. The degree abbreviates to ‘LLB’ instead of ‘BL’ due to the traditional name of the qualification in Latin, 'Legum Baccalaureus'.

'Legum' is the plural of 'lex', meaning law, while ‘Baccalaureus’ is the origin of the term 'Bachelors degree'.

[Gaxxian]

hace 3 minutos, Thanatos9t dijo:

Legum is an actual latin word, it's the Latin plural word for Law, if you study law you earn an LLB.

‘LLB’ is the abbreviation for the Bachelor of Laws. The degree abbreviates to ‘LLB’ instead of ‘BL’ due to the traditional name of the qualification in Latin, 'Legum Baccalaureus'.

'Legum' is the plural of 'lex', meaning law, while ‘Baccalaureus’ is the origin of the term 'Bachelors degree'.

Sorry, i did miss in all that blob what did Legum meant for the Orokin Empire.

[Thanatos9t]

29 minutes ago, Gaxxian said:

Sorry, i did miss in all that blob what did Legum meant for the Orokin Empire.

Stop being obtuse and read it.

Warframe uses many Latin words with unchanged meanings, for example Corpus means Body in Latin as they're clones (same body).

Dormizone is literally Sleep Zone as Dormi is Latin for sleep.

In Duviri Paradox, Dominus Thrax is literally Master Thrax as Dominus means Master.

Following that convention Legum is literally a Law in Warframe Sorren's dialogue on Lua references this "But... the Legums! If the Lords found out-"

Is the same as:

"But the Laws! If the Lords found out-"

Edited June 19 by Thanatos9t