Not sure how to feel about this quest (Spoilers)

[(PSN)Pablogamer585]

I don't know how to start this thread honestly.

Normally I don't talk about quests, I just, make a general thread for the update after I've gotten to test everything, but this quest is...
I can put it in words but it takes way more, so let an image do the bidding before I start rambling:

^{Not my operator}

I've been thinking nonstop overnight and today, as I did the quest yesterday and there's a whole lot I must express about it.
Remember that this thread is marked as spoiler so if you have not done the quest, you already know better than to be here.

1. Sorren, as I'll refer to Stalker onwards (seems I was right about this being his name when they showcased the trailer last month), had a wife back when he was a human warrior for the Orokin, Jade. For some unknown reason, unlike the Dax they had to keep her pregnancy secret, fearing what the Orokin would do to them had they known.
   Now you tell me, both get experimented with the Tennocyte virus, possibly years ago, and now also for an unknown reason we get to know about Jade's dimming light, while it seems Sorren has been taking care of her, while she was still pregnant for, again, possibly years.
   
   Perhaps affecting Jade with Tennocyte had some weird effects on gestation times unlike they'd do for regular humans, but as per usual that's not something we can know.
   I mean, it seems she saved him from random Excal#1091 while already being on the same stage, we don't know how long ago that was.
   
   Now, call me insensitive but Sorren is a dumb hypocrite.
   He hates the Tenno who rightfully killed his golden lords to whom he was so loyal to, despite these experimenting with him and his wife, putting in risk not only both their lives but their son's as well. He hates those Tenno, yet resents us who basically had nothing to do with him at all. Sounds sort of like racism but for space kids of all colours.
   Not his golden lords who gave him this life of misery that has ended claiming his wife.
   
    
2. So, first missions then, we have to do a spy with four chambers, unusual I must say.
   Apparently only 1 Corpus ship in the entirety of their fleet has this one resource, and Sorren knows because of course he does, clearly that Sentient-Grineer amalgam console he has on his base and doesn't use at all musta've told him, or perhaps uncle Hunhow did despite fella living in a pineapple under the sea for almost a decade now.
   
   Not only that, it is also the only ship in existence to ever have a Captain who is monitoring every detail of it, as to notice their vaults are being depleted despite these being hacked in perfect stealth, and on top of that, can see Sorren, through "camera 5", despite me shooting down every single camera and having a smoke screen that lasts a nap and a half.
   "Oh it looks like a Warframe but doesn't fight like a Warframe" LADY, perhaps all the spray you've put on ye hair so it stays up is not allowing you to think straight but this man right here is a Warframe and I am using him as I do with literally all other of the 56 Warframes I own what do you mean it doesn't fight like a Warframe.
   And after they tell you WHO it is you just try and tell me to dispose of my weapons and lay low? Yeah, I am sure that a bunch of randomly levelled enemies (Some were lvl 40, some lvl 100 during the mission, am I the only one?) will stand a chance vs my weapons which are completely modded beyond necessity. Yeeeep...
   
    
3. Back home with the groceries, turns out our super-stealth-undetectable-batman jet has been tracked by the Corpus all the way down to the depths of Uranus, despite the Corpus not having ships that can go underwater, and them having no clue at all how to get down either.
   No trackers like Vor did for the Warframes during The Awakening, nothing, they just, "Hey follow that dude through a space jump to a unknown destination, we clearly will know when to stop just to keep behind him!"...
   Anyways lets see if wifey gets better with the medicine despite Hunhow already telling us that random things we try will not be useful to her cause ,and that we already know who we have to contact with to at least try save wifey.
   
    
4. So next mission is it then.
   You are telling me, the guy who hates Tenno and Warframes has had free access at ANY point to my Orbiter, and that Ordis is, for some reason, so silly as to think the Operator who manages nothing on the ship, has disabled security measures, so he takes physical form and goes in circles around a section of the ship instead of supervising it as he has always done from wherever he does?
   
   Where are my pets at this moment in time?
   Where is my Warframe in my arsenal not taking sentience for a moment like he did in The Second Dream?
   Where is even my sentinel?
   They just, well, magically disappeared I guess so they will not attack the enemy!
   
   And then this indiligent hypocrite has the courage to walk up to my Operator - Not Drifter which I have equipped since I myself stopped being an operator years ago (can literally say I've grown with Warframe) - and threat me so that I help him. Who do you think you are talking to? I've turned SP versions of your "Sentient-enhanced" variant to dust in single blows and could probably void sling and let you ragdolling for a good 5 minutes straight if I wanted to.
   But welp, besides Ordis having funny dialogues as per usual, this guy brings us a Jade feather, and apparently we can access a fragment of her memories by using transference. So did we just transfer our operator, momentarily, to a planet that is thousands of kilometers away, just by touching a fragment of a frame we do not own or know? And back to the Orbiter which is near Earth. That is insane.
   
   But what's more insane is that apparently we know, despite never being told about this, what a dying warframe needs in order to stay alive.
   What is she dying of? We don't know but we got a possible cure!
   This part I honestly cannot blame the operator, they've transferred for mere seconds to a unknown frame and they've diagnosed her as best as they could.
   
   Anyways, Sorren's Shopping list now has: one element that has to be obtained from a Juggernaut Behemoth, which is casually different from other Juggernaut Behemoths, and we know at perfection where to find because of course we do. We didn't even need to ask the Helminth, the literal life-sustainer of Warframes of our ship about this, though all things considered perhaps the operator had already learned about Warframes more in depth by their own hand.
   Buuut we don't know this either, we will have to assume it too.
   
    
5. Aaaaanyways next mission and the Corpus know at perfection that Sorren is on a Derrelict ship that they have never in their life cared about up until now because of course they do and they've kept tracking Sorren all the way up until here which clearly doesn't mean they may know where the Tenno reside, but of course we will omit this key point that could change a lot for us.
   Corpus Captain is so smart she even knows that the substances Sorren has extracted are vital to a warframe! I wonder how come the top scientists of the Corpus hold things that are medical supplies for the Warframes and know about them too, yet they've never thought or engineered a thing that can harm them more than it can harm themselves, literally just look at the Battacor.
   
    
6. Welp, new supplies for wifey, Sorren insists on us to try help her so we do.
   Jade is revealed to be pregnant, genuinely shocking as I wasn't sure what to expect from the "trigger warning" of the adventure, and they had made sure to keep her belly well hidden on the Devstreams she was shown, although a glimpse of it was seen during some animation showcases.
   Sorren administers the substance he has retrieved, and, from what it seems, our operator, male in my case, transfer to Jade, to assist with... the delivering process?
   
   ^{Mine to be precise. This part is just too weird for me to want to elaborate on further, but I feel most of us have shared feelings about how bizarre this was.}
   Jade passes away, giving birth to their son, the first ever of its kind: a Warframe baby.
   This, is like throwing a nuclear bomb to us. You are telling me, that if a woman is affected by Tennocyte during pregnancy, they will continue to carry that baby for unbeknownst to anyone how long, said baby will be also affected by the Tennocyte, and at a random point this one will be brought to life. I don't recall Warframes ageing, so what will happen to this little boy? He is no ordinary baby, he is no longer human but a fully sentient warframe, so one that has kept its humanity as did Jade and Sorren.
   
    
7. Sorren changes, as indicated by the visual hints of his energy colour.
   He is no longer the hunter, now he is the protector as the trailer described. Protector of his legacy, their son.
   This, change somehow allows him to exalt his Hate and convert it to what I would simply call, the Hope.
   Hunhow's gift had a totally different meaning to the War he bestowed upon Sorren, now this gift also has a new meaning for him.
   Exalting the Hate is comprehensibly something only Sorren should be able to do given the context and situation, and now we have to run away with little fella (he looks adorable), escaping the Corpus.
   
   This is the breaking point for many.
   Corpus who are shooting on command, stop when their Captain gives them the order to do so after hearing a child.
   I do believe Sisters of Parvos not to be as depraved as the Corpus that Nef Anyo directs on Fortuna, so this is, due to uncertainty, a possibility. Yes she is a woman but I don't think any Corpus is a mother, let alone a Sister, as to stop and create this awkward situation that so many users can't get over (I don't blame you guys).
   
   But, here's where I give my two cents: why didn't Sorren just use his 18s lasting Smoke bomb and get past them with the child?
   It's not like Terror (the landing craft) would be brought down by a squad of grunts with Supras, nor would they have used the clunky aah turret to try and gun it down either given that thing can only on one direction: forward and perpendicularly to the surface it stands in.
   Some user even pointed out, why didn't they use the same thing they used on Valkyr Prime during her trailer?
   
   At this point on the adventure, my brain is just ragdolling around my head with Half Life SFX.
   I do hold respects to that Corpus Captain for showing humanity, moreover knowing full well she will be executed the moment either Vala or Parvos become aware of what she did, so rest in peace, surprisingly-good-looking-Corpus-female-captain with an hairdo that needs 50 cans of spray to stay that way.
   
    
8. The end then, we go where all things begin, Lua, to baptise our son.
   I do believe most of us have paid our respects to Jade in the election of the name for little guy (he's so cute).
   The quest ends, and now Uncle Hunhow talks to us.
   
   See, the thing is "I am still the great and terrible Hunhow", doesn't really make much sense anymore, but I sort of understand why he tells us that.
   Hunhow doesn't have a reason to hate the Tenno anymore, he even told Sorren to let go of his past against us, like he did for the things that happened during The New War, but it wouldn't be good for us to divulge that, well, the great Sentient lord "is chill like that" to put it bluntly.
   Now we have to protect the remnants of Jade and extract them before the Corpus do, & fly them to the Sun, a noble cause, but can someone tell me how come the Corpus have invaded Tyl Regor territory and he hasn't taken notice, while he was able to know about Tyanna Pass all the way on Mars?
   
    

That's it. I cannot with this adventure.
We normally joke around, not really joking, that Warframe breaks the lore many times, but this quest feels like it wasn't even done by DE themselves.
So many absurd points, so many Little Duck moment points that are left to imagination. This quest was not good, and I feel sorry for the team who clearly have put effort on bringing it to life for it is clear they made it with care, but making it sad & pretty doesn't equal to it being good.

Emotional shock value is not the only way to make a story good. It's only 30 minutes of quest that does not really answer the question many had about Stalker but instead shed light onto things no one would have ever asked themselves. Perhaps it should have been spaced out more, something longer but that you can do in chapters, not a full throttle 30 minutes quest that feeds you all that info in as little time possible.

Pacing of the story being told has an important effect on the readers, this one was far too rushed, imo.

 

Lastly, I want to talk about Jade's looks as a Warframe, which is also another highly controversial point for many.
Face front, I don't think it is a good idea to have a "pregnant angel warframe in high heels with a killer figurine" on the battlefield due to my personal moral values.
Now, does the tummy look cute, does it provide a heartwarming value to her? Absolutely, but to me this should have been part of the quest only.
What's worse, you can simulate some abhorrent... mannerisms by equipping Excalibur Zato's animation set on her, I will let people figure this one out themselves.

Just, if possible give us a post-pregnancy Jade option as an auxiliary?
My head is already struggling thinking of her Prime or Deluxes look and she has released a day ago, and not just for lore reasons.
I have no problem playing as Jade (once she is done building), but I would much prefer doing so in a way that doesn't, concern me.

Also, how come everyone has access to our communications? This in reference to Parvos talking to Ordis while Ordis talks to us.
Don't we have some better channel encryption or are the Tenno as dumb as to broadcast in a public frequency all that we do?

 

Now, Stalker has exiled, to raise (name you've chosen for lil boi), his lair is now empty.
I do here, formulate a question, but also a suggestion:

Does he have any right to hate us anymore?
Any right to come after us for killing bosses whom he has no relation to?
Those are the questions I wanted this quest to solve, yet they haven't been answered.

Sorren shouldn't come after the Tenno who have completed this quest, so, here is a suggestion:
Give his weapons as rewards from Ordis' mini shop, for Motes, like do Jade's, and let him rest.
Acolytes are separate from him, we still don't really know their origins either but we know they will keep coming after us for no particular reason, they fight for nothing.

Please, let Sorren rest and raise his son.
He deserves to find peace and learn to forgive.

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

Now THAT'S some dedication to analysis. I stand up and salute you, fellow Tenno. And also agree with pretty much everything you've said. This quest is just oh-so-poorly written...

 

(but yes, the hairdo on that chick is awesome - I want it for my Operator/Drifter, not gonna lie)

Edited June 19 by _Kit_Kat_Cat_

[Alpha545]

More of a beat-by-beat than my own post, which makes it easier to read :p I think Warframe's writing has always been weak, but this particular quest was so egregious that I felt the need to express my frustrations. It looks like a fair number of people feel the same.

I didn't mention it in my post but the choosing a name thing bothers me. It's a choice completely devoid of context or meaning. I guess it's implied that Sirius is Jade's choice and Orion is the Stalker's choice with the colors? If so, then that should have been set up, AND we should not have gotten the choice. We are not the Stalker, we don't know how he sees things (which was what this quest was marketed as and should have been about: a delve into the Stalker's backstory). As it stands it's just: we are doing a name-choosing scene now, and you get to choose!

I have similar issues with choosing the Lotus' name. Which of the three she chooses says something about her character, does she acknowledge the Natah part of her? Does she want to become an extension of Margulis' legacy? Or does she want to become something new in the Lotus (I'm not entirely sure how the name 'the Lotus' came into being).

At the end of TNW I had a very poor grasp on her motivations past and present, I, as the player, was not qualified to make that choice. I barely understood my Operator's/Drifter's motivations.

[Gaxxian]

Beautiful and perfect analysis. 100% agree with each of your points, i was thinking the same as i was playing this quest. About Jade's appearance, also 100% agree with you.

hace 3 minutos, Alpha545 dijo:

I guess it's implied that Sirius is Jade's choice and Orion is the Stalker's choice with the colors?

Sirius is the guiding star. Orion is The Hunter. Thats it, thats all ^^!

[Alpha545]

1 minute ago, Gaxxian said:

Sirius is the guiding star. Orion is The Hunter. Thats it, thats all ^^!

Got it, that was not conveyed to me in game, but that makes an amount of sense, thank you :)

[_Kit_Kat_Cat_]

9 minutes ago, Alpha545 said:

I guess it's implied that Sirius is Jade's choice and Orion is the Stalker's choice with the colors

Unless we're just getting Mass Effect color-endings all over again, just by DE this time around...

9 minutes ago, Alpha545 said:

we should not have gotten the choice. We are not the Stalker, we don't know how he sees things (which was what this quest was marketed as and should have been about: a delve into the Stalker's backstory). As it stands it's just: we are doing a name-choosing scene now, and you get to choose!

Exactly. The quest is about Stalker, but not really. You know? It SHOULD BE about Stalker. But it really is not. It's about pregnancy, about losing a loved one, about single parent thing, about Jade herself, about Corpus officers (Sisters in particular) having a choice and some moral compass... It's literally about EVERYTHING ELSE other than Stalker himself. And the fact that WE - Tenno, the players - get to pick a name for the child... only makes this worse. Not only "The Stalker's quest" is not about him at all, but we also take away the choice from him as well.

And yet... Stalker isn't even the main protagonist of Warframe. We - the Tenno - we are the main characters. Not Stalker. So why we would or should relate to ANY of these supposed emotional rollercoasters (which are also poorly implemented), if he's not even the main character, nor even "one of us"?

Yeah... The quest is just... Bad.

  

3 minutes ago, Alpha545 said:

Got it, that was not conveyed to me in game, but that makes an amount of sense, thank you :)

Exactly! That's the problem! Things aren't conveyed in-game. You have to know it to "get it". Yes, it shows that some of us (me included, yes) are lesser educated in mythology and we should learn that stuff to "get it". But... Sometimes Warframe's "link-ins" to reality/mythology are so obscure that it makes you wonder - do we REALLY need to learn everything to "get it"? Or perhaps the game should actually tell us, eh?

Edited June 19 by _Kit_Kat_Cat_

[jothki]

The Tenno clearly have a good reason to always stop at three vaults.

[matt11mz]

1a. Sorren was a Low Guardian, different position to the Dax, and has to follow the Legums (we don't know what that means outside of "Sorren cannot legally be with Jade."

1b. It is heavily implied that Sorren and Jade became Stalker and... Jade as punishment. Keep in mind, Jade isn't "conventionally" pregnant anymore. Ballas can do whatever he wants to a Warframe's body (poor, yet accurate phrasing, I apologize), turn the body into a geode, keep, and likely expand the big hole in the face, add a belly mouth that still can't talk, take away feet and give hover power, etc. Jade's pregnant belly is mostly a container like what Lavos has for his mystery chemicals. Test tube baby, but the test tube is also the mother's actual womb. As opposed to normal development, her baby is slowly feeding off of her body to grow.

1c. Yeah, still a mystery. I hand wave it with insanity, but realistically, the quest just raises further questions about his revenge for the Collapse.

 

2. Meh, personal preference. I didn't mind the mcguffin hunts, and at least it was the Corpus. Between Alad V's schemes and Parvos Granum's whole lore, if anyone knows what this stuff is, it's them. As for Stalker, he's a sentient frame, so maybe he just knows?

 

3. Biggest note: Stalker is too proud to go to his enemy for help. That's why he's so stubborn.

 

4a. No comment aside from wishing it kept our ship decorations. Took me a while to realize this was my orbiter because it only used my colors.

4b. For the Operator part, They both canonically exist, just not at the same time. Would've been nice if you got to be Drifter (I assume you had Drifter finish TNW, if not, that's why).

For the teleport part, that caught me too, but if it is from the frame, I can see a logic to it.

I'm in the boat that Operator knew about the infestation from either the vitruvian (Ballas warframe logs), or like how he (mine's a guy) knew about the Zariman back in The War Within.

 

5. I'm pretty sure that the Orbiter either would have something to block trackers, or the Corpus just saw "He's somewhere in space, nothing special there." As for Corpus Lady knowing about the heal mcguffin, again, the Corpus should have the most understanding of this kind of stuff. now, if this was a Grineer, that would be a different story.

 

6a. This isn't a physical birth. Jade was decaying as she transfered her physical form to the baby. I believe Operator was trying to heal her, and felt the pain of her dying.

6b. Yeah, pregnant frames are new territory. I hope that we see the end of this.

 

7. The problem is that the Corpus cover most of the area. If Stalker went invisible, they'd probably just open fire anyway. There's only so many places he could run.

 

8. Hunhow was giving his title, whether an official one or not. he is "The Great and Terrible Hunhow."

As for Regor (hey, I made a rhyme!), yeah, no idea about that either, though it would make you wonder how he hasn't noticed Stalker, so maybe it is a blind spot?

[Squick]

I mostly agree, disappointed with the quest, but there's a few things:

1) It's still possible Sorren is a dax or something using transference to pilot the stalker warframe. It's also possible he might be stuck in it, similar to the Silver Grove New Loka quest chain. We don't know either way, though, and the rest of what you say is valid, especially since we know the orokin had been using the Jade Light as an execution method for quite some time before the end, meaning Sorren would have had a lot of reason to be pissed at them.

2) It's possible the tenno just don't raid bioplasm vaults. They may have their own way of manufacturing it (Helminth/Foundry) or may just not need it. I was also a little disappointed with the "look at camera 5" thing, especially when they could have scripted the camera dropping to "Wait...just before that cut out...did you see that?" or something similar. I always imagined stalker to be a well-trained fighter, but not equivalent to the tenno who literally did nothing but fight. Sort of like Teshin vs. warframes...there would be very real differences in fighting style.

3) I agree, but if anyone could track stealthy orokin technology it would be Parvos and his subordinates.

4 & 5) Stalker's been on our orbiter before. Maybe we only keep our sentinels and pets out when we're about to do missions, and they're otherwise in stasis. We're functionally immortal, after all, they aren't. There's a lot of explanations there that I don't mind it too much. It also makes sense that we (the tenno) would be keeping tabs on the infested, since we're responsible for them being restricted to Eris in the first place. It is a little weird that the Corpus would immediately know what he's up to, unless they can tap into the old derelict systems, assuming they were even working. I thought that was lazy writing, myself.

6) Yeah, not a fan of the warframe baby or pretty much anything around it. Especially how it's still pregnant when we craft it.

7) Definitely a weak cinematic given we know stalker's capabilities. I don't mind the sister calling the squad off given that canonically they all have pretty jacked up childhoods and would have reasons to want to prevent other children from having one, but it just doesn't jive with everything we've seen with them and the scene itself is drawn out and not well implemented.

8) Hunhow's motivations are once again a mystery. He seems to not really care about things anymore, but it's never really been said why that is. I guess this is the drifter version of Hunhow we manifested into existence via eternalism? I don't know.

[Alpha545]

16 minutes ago, _Kit_Kat_Cat_ said:

Unless we're just getting Mass Effect color-endings all over again, just by DE this time around...

Exactly. The quest is about Stalker, but not really. You know? It SHOULD BE about Stalker. But it really is not. It's about pregnancy, about losing a loved one, about single parent thing, about Jade herself, about Corpus officers (Sisters in particular) having a choice and some moral compass... It's literally about EVERYTHING ELSE other than Stalker himself. And the fact that WE - Tenno, the players - get to pick a name for the child... only makes this worse. Not only "The Stalker's quest" is not about him at all, but we also take away the choice from him as well.

And yet... Stalker isn't even the main protagonist of Warframe. We - the Tenno - we are the main characters. Not Stalker. So why we would or should relate to ANY of these supposed emotional rollercoasters (which are also poorly implemented), if he's not even the main character, nor even "one of us"?

Yeah... The quest is just... Bad.

  

Exactly! That's the problem! Things aren't conveyed in-game. You have to know it to "get it". Yes, it shows that some of us (me included, yes) are lesser educated in mythology and we should learn that stuff to "get it". But... Sometimes Warframe's "link-ins" to reality/mythology are so obscure that it makes you wonder - do we REALLY need to learn everything to "get it"? Or perhaps the game should actually tell us, eh?

All we were missing was a blue option, oh, and a reject-the-baby option XD

I'm willing to be invested in the Stalker as a side-story, but then actually give me something to get invested in. It's all so surface level :(

I am very big on a game being self-contained myself. I don't mind a game having a story play out in the background where you actually have to go look for the story (Like Dark Souls or Dragon's Dogma, to an extent), but Warframe clearly wants its grandiose cinematics and emotional pay-offs, so it needs to do the work and bring the player along for that.

Edited June 19 by Alpha545

[OrionTCB]

I have my own take on this, I wrote everything on my side then read what you did. It seems I'm not alone in all this. I'm kinda hijacking this thread, sorry.
I may or may not look like a do*che after re-reading, but whatever.

Anyway, here I go. I can't say for sure if I like or dislike the quest, I guess I'm pretty neutral about it. There's lot of "why" and "how" moments, but the conclusion is kinda interesting tho'. I'm gonna speak as a wanna-be veteran player with almost 5k hours in and playing since at least the start of 2015. The reason I mention this is because of lore, plotpoint, etc. View this as a PURE-LORE/MACHINE perspective more than a HUMAN perspective.

You may not agree with or like what I'm about to bring up, but that's the Internet for you. First of all, my take on this whole topic is simple; It's a video game, not real life, so keep that in mind if you take the time to read everything.

Anyway, I know Warframe lore, I'm not a Iceberg-type of lore enthusiast, but I know how things work, so here's why I feel like some parts of the quest are just outright weird or even stupid? (I may nitpick on some of them)

So, from what we know (be it general lore or from the quest itself) ;
1) Jade is just laying there? In Stalker's lair? For how long?! From what we know, between the Collapse and the Awakening, 1000 years passed. We also know that Jade disappeared after the Collapse, for some reason. We don't need to know what she was doing, but are you telling me that Jade has been conceiving a baby for a THOUSAND YEARS?! She got pregnant before she got Warframe'd 'cause she told Sorren (Stalker) that he would be a father when they were still humans/orokins/whatever-not-yet-warframes. I know we can't really project our (real) human knowledge of motherhood onto warframe's, BUT she was human at one point and Warframe (the game) clearly takes place in our Universe, albeit with futuristic and fantasy sparkles. So it's just weird (but not impossible) that it's taking her sooooo long to finally give birth.

2) Corpus lost the signal to Stalker's lair? What do you mean? Are you telling me that one of the most super-futuristic and technology advanced faction in the game lost their coordinates because some of their men died? How was a 3D vector wiped from your supercomputers? Whatever.

3) ? Stalker can just TP into our ship? What the f? You mean he could have done it at any given point? Plus, he can safely ignore Ordis and just point his scythe at our operator? Ok, whatever. We know he's done it before, but it was a time when we were most vulnerable and he was following us closely, etc. There was logic behind it. Now he can just RKO our ass out of nowhere in our own ship like f'in Randy Orton.

4) All the drama over Operator/Drifter? Who gives an s? The MC always has been the Operator, why are you crying that he's not the Drifter? Let me remind you that, as it stands, Duviri is useless to the main story; it's a time loop side quest for several side characters that were ditched as soon as we got our Operator back. Drifter is just a reskin for the Operator. At least, that's how I felt about it (still, I liked the content), so I'm really not surprised that I didn't see or hear about the Drifter at any point again (at least until 1999).

5) Why is the Operator so calm about this? Yeah, it got involved into a lot of stuff beforehand, but... like, if your arch-nemesis stands right in front of you, won't you at least also point him with your amp or go into the void? Idk, do something else other than "please don't hurt me"?

6) So the Operator immediately knew what the Stalker wanted, why not, but then asked him "Why? You hate Warframes. Unless... is this one... like you?". Yeah, very good question. Guess Stalker loves Jade more than he hates Tennos, which is ok. But then the Operator said "All right. I'll help. For them. Whoever they are." HELL F'IN NO! Why should I help the Stalker?! Why should I help something or someone that is supposedly like the Stalker?! Y'know, the guy who always tries to kill us every now and then? Just because Stalker is suddendly a dad and now has some kind of backstory I should feel bad for him and help? If Vay Hek or Tyl Regor asked for help because "yeah, one of my clone wife is sick, can you help?", would the Operator also agree to it? I won't. This is a game, not real life, let me play how I want, as a player. This really feels like a D&D GM forcing our hands to continue the story, I don't really like it, but let it roll.

7) Again with the Operator. Apparently we can just Instant Transmission ourselves into anything, regardless of range, as long as we have something related to it?? All right? I don't mind this, but it opens up a lot of cans of worms for past and future quests. We love retcon!

8) Let's help Jade! Ordis says "...Ordis suggests you turn to the base matter of which Warframes are made." And the Operator responds with "The Infestation. Go." At that moment I said to myself: ok, cool, let's visit the Helminth. Nuh huh. No Helminth for us. F me right?... What? Why not? The Helminth strain is the very thing Warframes are made of (the whole plot twist of the Sacrifice quest), why the f won't you go see our ship's Helminth and ask it for help?! (this might sound weird, but they could have done something with it, whatever it was)

9) We are now going to kill the Juggernaut and Xeto (the corpus woman) pretty much warns us that she's alerting the Sisterhood/Vala. We never see or hear from a Sister again, so why bother?

10) Jade is suddenly dying very quickly, she only has a few minutes to seconds left. What? She lived for a thousand years while conceiving her baby, and she's actually dying right now? Only when we know of her existence? That, ladies and gentlemen, is what you call "screenwriting ease". If the Stalker hadn't been looking for us, would she have died off-screen? Or would she have lived another thousand years until someone or something paid attention to her? Anyway, another bad move from a D&D GM.

11) The baby reveal... It's a bit weird for Warframe, but don't get me wrong, I don't think the idea (or the concept as a whole) is bad, I dig it, I understand it. Jade and Sorren made a baby while still human, either they were caught and punished for that or something else, and they were turned into Warframes. The "warframing" process changed Jade, but it also affected the embryo inside her, creating the very first "Babyframe". In the Ascension game mode, there are dialogues between Parvos and Ordis where Parvos states that "Jade has essentially completed her role and given birth to an heir". This implies that pregnant Jade was deliberately "warframed" for this very reason. This is cool.

12) The mini-game is pointless, I have nothing more to say. I just don't like when devs make some kind of mechanic/mini-game and NEVER use it again anywhere. Just how like Deimos units are only on Deimos and not part of the whole Infested. Maybe their strains do not match, but Idc, that'd be so cool.

13) Jade gives birth and gets Thanos'd. Ngl, I didn't feel anything for Jade or the Stalker. Yeah, it's sad for them, but Idc. From what we saw, Jade only existed for about 20 minutes, and we only saw her for ~2 minutes. Do you expect me to feel something about a character I know nothing about? I know the "Mother dying in childbirth" is a real form of trauma, but in my opinion, if I'm watching a movie and a character dies in the first 2 minutes for whatever reason, I don't care, I can't sympathize with that. As for Stalker, should I be sad that Stalker, an enemy, a villain, a murderer (just like us) and our worst archenemy lost his wife? Nope, never. A question arises however: why did she get Thanos'd, is it because she was out of energy or because of the Jade Light? What is her connection with the Executioner's Jade Light anyway? We know NOTHING of Jade other than she's a "dying mother giving birth", wow, a trope never seen before. I'm going to repeat myself but this is a video game, not real life, and I have a hard time feeling anything for a 3D model discovered 20 minutes ago that mimics childbirth. This can relate to many people, but I wasn't one of them.

14) "Stalker is dad?" Ok. Such wow, such backstory. The meeting at DE was like: "guys, we need to give Stalker a good backstory! Why is he so angry at Tennos?" and someone only wrote 3 words for it, that's just sad. Of course, I'm not looking for a Light novel about Stalker, but there could have been more?

15) Suddenly the Corpus are here? They recovered the their 3D vector coordinates? Why can't I use spell as Stalker now? Is it because of the baby? The fact that Jade went through Stalker? The Children of Men scene. Cool, but stupid in Warframe context, why did they not just kill the Stalker, take the baby and give it to Parvos? Don't you dare tell me it's because Xeto is a woman.

16) The name choice made laugh for obvious reasons.

17) It ends like this? Another cliffhanger. "...Brought with it more questions than answers", that's Warframe in a nutshell.

18) Hunhow emails us, 'cause he can. Yeah yeah granpa, go to sleep. Also, how did you give us Jade's schema exactly?

That's about it for the whole quest and what I remembered.
As I said at the start, I'm more into lore and facts than emotions, so if you feel like I'm aphatic about everything about Jade/Stalker, you would be right. I understood everything that went on, but I just can't see myself care about a character seen for about 5 mins and a mass murderer constantly trying to kill me.

Edited June 21 by OrionTCB

[Gaxxian]

hace 1 hora, OrionTCB dijo:

-- too long to copy everything here --

A few thinsg you forgot to add:

1- Everybody knows which elements do you need to heal a warframe except Stalker and Hunhow... ok

2- The Stalker had a babydress in his base for no apparent reason xD Or maybe he is a great dressmaker because its his hobby, idk.

3- Technically, NOTHING said here attaches Jade with the Jade Light. We assume, but isnt said. Not even the new eximus have any attachment with Jade itself. She doesn't have any similar ability anyways. Everything is random! xD

[Shinoyami65]

52 minutes ago, Gaxxian said:

3- Technically, NOTHING said here attaches Jade with the Jade Light. We assume, but isnt said. Not even the new eximus have any attachment with Jade itself. She doesn't have any similar ability anyways. Everything is random! xD

The ability description of her 4 states that it's firing Jade Light and the voice lines in the Ascension game mode also reveal that the Jade Light Eximus was created using the motes she left behind in the caves after the quest. The Eximus's beam itself is fired from an orb resembling the 'eyes' Jade summons during her 4 to shoot lasers. Even the green aura around the Jade Eximus is the same as the aura around Jade when her 2 is active.

Edited June 21 by Shinoyami65

[NeoReina]

I am amazed at how many people didn't manage to pick up on how what the Stalker was doing was delaying the birth process for Jade by healing her. The only way that she, as a warframe, would be able to give birth would also destroy her. Jade was ready and willing to do this, however the Stalker was not and was fighting to save Jade despite the fact that all it did was prolong both of their suffering with the stop-gaps he used. He's been doing that for hundreds of years.

It's a really messed up cycle of suffering created because of love. I really enjoyed the story, but it's definitely one that requires paying attention to the details. 

[0bsi]

9 hours ago, Gaxxian said:

2- The Stalker had a babydress in his base for no apparent reason xD Or maybe he is a great dressmaker because its his hobby, idk.

LOL yeah that had me shaking my head too....

Because on top of it being ridiculous that he just happened to have baby clothes on hand (or made them)....  Stalker is into fashionframe?  Why else do frames need clothes?

 

 

Honestly, I have nothing against single dads, or dads in general....  but I feel that this "ohh Stalker is a dad now" storyline makes Stalker less of an interesting badass character, gave us nothing of the questions we wanted answers to.... gave us more questions, and felt unsatisfying as a quest.  It didn't do Jade justice and it didn't do Stalker justice :(

[Shinoyami65]

13 minutes ago, 0bsi said:

LOL yeah that had me shaking my head too....

Because on top of it being ridiculous that he just happened to have baby clothes on hand (or made them)....  Stalker is into fashionframe?  Why else do frames need clothes?

The baby clothes have the same white-green-pink colour scheme as Jade (including the under layer being pink) so I just assumed she made them with her space magic rather than Stalker just having baby clothes lying around. "I may be dying but let me fashionframe my baby in the arsenal real quick".

[L3512]

6 hours ago, NeoReina said:

I am amazed at how many people didn't manage to pick up on how what the Stalker was doing was delaying the birth process for Jade by healing her. The only way that she, as a warframe, would be able to give birth would also destroy her. Jade was ready and willing to do this, however the Stalker was not and was fighting to save Jade despite the fact that all it did was prolong both of their suffering with the stop-gaps he used.

Err no, the baby needed resources and probably had an extremely long gestation period as Stalker was not providing enough. There is no evidence that Jade would have needed to die to give birth.

 

11 hours ago, OrionTCB said:

We don't need to know what she was doing, but are you telling me that Jade has been conceiving a baby for a THOUSAND YEARS?!

LMAO, but conceiving is the wrong word here.

[L3512]

On 2024-06-20 at 7:22 AM, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

This is the breaking point for many.
Corpus who are shooting on command, stop when their Captain gives them the order to do so after hearing a child.
I do believe Sisters of Parvos not to be as depraved as the Corpus that Nef Anyo directs on Fortuna, so this is, due to uncertainty, a possibility. Yes she is a woman but I don't think any Corpus is a mother, let alone a Sister, as to stop and create this awkward situation that so many users can't get over (I don't blame you guys).

 

 

On 2024-06-20 at 7:22 AM, (PSN)Pablogamer585 said:

Don't we have some better channel encryption or are the Tenno as dumb as to broadcast in a public frequency all that we do?

fundamentals are a crutch of the talentless.

[matt11mz]

10 hours ago, L3512 said:

Err no, the baby needed resources and probably had an extremely long gestation period as Stalker was not providing enough. There is no evidence that Jade would have needed to die to give birth.

"Whatever is killing her is accelerating, and she's not fighting it."

"Jade's profound understanding of life and death gives her two aura mod slots."

"That is the way of scythes. We cut only what we must so that life can flourish."

Don't know about you, but that makes it sound to me like the baby is what was slowly killing her. In-quest, in-bio, in-promo. Three sources to show the theme of "death brings new life."

[Alpha545]

On 2024-06-21 at 6:25 PM, OrionTCB said:

I have my own take on this, I wrote everything on my side then read what you did. It seems I'm not alone in all this. I'm kinda hijacking this thread, sorry.
I may or may not look like a do*che after re-reading, but whatever.

Anyway, here I go. I can't say for sure if I like or dislike the quest, I guess I'm pretty neutral about it. There's lot of "why" and "how" moments, but the conclusion is kinda interesting tho'. I'm gonna speak as a wanna-be veteran player with almost 5k hours in and playing since at least the start of 2015. The reason I mention this is because of lore, plotpoint, etc. View this as a PURE-LORE/MACHINE perspective more than a HUMAN perspective.

You may not agree with or like what I'm about to bring up, but that's the Internet for you. First of all, my take on this whole topic is simple; It's a video game, not real life, so keep that in mind if you take the time to read everything.

Anyway, I know Warframe lore, I'm not a Iceberg-type of lore enthusiast, but I know how things work, so here's why I feel like some parts of the quest are just outright weird or even stupid? (I may nitpick on some of them)

So, from what we know (be it general lore or from the quest itself) ;
1) Jade is just laying there? In Stalker's lair? For how long?! From what we know, between the Collapse and the Awakening, 1000 years passed. We also know that Jade disappeared after the Collapse, for some reason. We don't need to know what she was doing, but are you telling me that Jade has been conceiving a baby for a THOUSAND YEARS?! She got pregnant before she got Warframe'd 'cause she told Sorren (Stalker) that he would be a father when they were still humans/orokins/whatever-not-yet-warframes. I know we can't really project our (real) human knowledge of motherhood onto warframe's, BUT she was human at one point and Warframe (the game) clearly takes place in our Universe, albeit with futuristic and fantasy sparkles. So it's just weird (but not impossible) that it's taking her sooooo long to finally give birth.

2) Corpus lost the signal to Stalker's lair? What do you mean? Are you telling me that one of the most super-futuristic and technology advanced faction in the game lost their coordinates because some of their men died? How was a 3D vector wiped from your supercomputers? Whatever.

3) ? Stalker can just TP into our ship? What the f? You mean he could have done it at any given point? Plus, he can safely ignore Ordis and just point his scythe at our operator? Ok, whatever. We know he's done it before, but it was a time when we were most vulnerable and he was following us closely, etc. There was logic behind it. Now he can just RKO our ass out of nowhere in our own ship like f'in Randy Orton.

4) All the drama over Operator/Drifter? Who gives an s? The MC always has been the Operator, why are you crying that he's not the Drifter? Let me remind you that, as it stands, Duviri is useless to the main story; it's a time loop side quest for several side characters that were ditched as soon as we got our Operator back. Drifter is just a reskin for the Operator. At least, that's how I felt about it (still, I liked the content), so I'm really not surprised that I didn't see or hear about the Drifter at any point again (at least until 1999).

5) Why is the Operator so calm about this? Yeah, it got involved into a lot of stuff beforehand, but... like, if your arch-nemesis stands right in front of you, won't you at least also point him with your amp or go into the void? Idk, do something else other than "please don't hurt me"?

6) So the Operator immediately knew what the Stalker wanted, why not, but then asked him "Why? You hate Warframes. Unless... is this one... like you?". Yeah, very good question. Guess Stalker loves Jade more than he hates Tennos, which is ok. But then the Operator said "All right. I'll help. For them. Whoever they are." HELL F'IN NO! Why should I help the Stalker?! Why should I help something or someone that is supposedly like the Stalker?! Y'know, the guy who always tries to kill us every now and then? Just because Stalker is suddendly a dad and now has some kind of backstory I should feel bad for him and help? If Vay Hek or Tyl Regor asked for help because "yeah, one of my clone wife is sick, can you help?", would the Operator also agree to it? I won't. This is a game, not real life, let me play how I want, as a player. This really feels like a D&D GM forcing our hands to continue the story, I don't really like it, but let it roll.

7) Again with the Operator. Apparently we can just Instant Transmission ourselves into anything, regardless of range, as long as we have something related to it?? All right? I don't mind this, but it opens up a lot of cans of worms for past and future quests. We love retcon!

8) Let's help Jade! Ordis says "...Ordis suggests you turn to the base matter of which Warframes are made." And the Operator responds with "The Infestation. Go." At that moment I said to myself: ok, cool, let's visit the Helminth. Nuh huh. No Helminth for us. F me right?... What? Why not? The Helminth strain is the very thing Warframes are made of (the whole plot twist of the Sacrifice quest), why the f won't you go see our ship's Helminth and ask it for help?! (this might sound weird, but they could have done something with it, whatever it was)

9) We are now going to kill the Juggernaut and Xeto (the corpus woman) pretty much warns us that she's alerting the Sisterhood/Vala. We never see or hear from a Sister again, so why bother?

10) Jade is suddenly dying very quickly, she only has a few minutes to seconds left. What? She lived for a thousand years while conceiving her baby, and she's actually dying right now? Only when we know of her existence? That, ladies and gentlemen, is what you call "screenwriting ease". If the Stalker hadn't been looking for us, would she have died off-screen? Or would she have lived another thousand years until someone or something paid attention to her? Anyway, another bad move from a D&D GM.

11) The baby reveal... It's a bit weird for Warframe, but don't get me wrong, I don't think the idea (or the concept as a whole) is bad, I dig it, I understand it. Jade and Sorren made a baby while still human, either they were caught and punished for that or something else, and they were turned into Warframes. The "warframing" process changed Jade, but it also affected the embryo inside her, creating the very first "Babyframe". In the Ascension game mode, there are dialogues between Parvos and Ordis where Parvos states that "Jade has essentially completed her role and given birth to an heir". This implies that pregnant Jade was deliberately "warframed" for this very reason. This is cool.

12) The mini-game is pointless, I have nothing more to say. I just don't like when devs make some kind of mechanic/mini-game and NEVER use it again anywhere. Just how like Deimos units are only on Deimos and not part of the whole Infested. Maybe their strains do not match, but Idc, that'd be so cool.

13) Jade gives birth and gets Thanos'd. Ngl, I didn't feel anything for Jade or the Stalker. Yeah, it's sad for them, but Idc. From what we saw, Jade only existed for about 20 minutes, and we only saw her for ~2 minutes. Do you expect me to feel something about a character I know nothing about? I know the "Mother dying in childbirth" is a real form of trauma, but in my opinion, if I'm watching a movie and a character dies in the first 2 minutes for whatever reason, I don't care, I can't sympathize with that. As for Stalker, should I be sad that Stalker, an enemy, a villain, a murderer (just like us) and our worst archenemy lost his wife? Nope, never. A question arises however: why did she get Thanos'd, is it because she was out of energy or because of the Jade Light? What is her connection with the Executioner's Jade Light anyway? We know NOTHING of Jade other than she's a "dying mother giving birth", wow, a trope never seen before. I'm going to repeat myself but this is a video game, not real life, and I have a hard time feeling anything for a 3D model discovered 20 minutes ago that mimics childbirth. This can relate to many people, but I wasn't one of them.

14) "Stalker is dad?" Ok. Such wow, such backstory. The meeting at DE was like: "guys, we need to give Stalker a good backstory! Why is he so angry at Tennos?" and someone only wrote 3 words for it, that's just sad. Of course, I'm not looking for a Light novel about Stalker, but there could have been more?

15) Suddenly the Corpus are here? They recovered the their 3D vector coordinates? Why can't I use spell as Stalker now? Is it because of the baby? The fact that Jade went through Stalker? The Children of Men scene. Cool, but stupid in Warframe context, why did they not just kill the Stalker, take the baby and give it to Parvos? Don't you dare tell me it's because Xeto is a woman.

16) The name choice made laugh for obvious reasons.

17) It ends like this? Another cliffhanger. "...Brought with it more questions than answers", that's Warframe in a nutshell.

18) Hunhow emails us, 'cause he can. Yeah yeah granpa, go to sleep. Also, how did you give us Jade's schema exactly?

That's about it for the whole quest and what I remembered.
As I said at the start, I'm more into lore and facts than emotions, so if you feel like I'm aphatic about everything about Jade/Stalker, you would be right. I understood everything that went on, but I just can't see myself care about a character seen for about 5 mins and a mass murderer constantly trying to kill me.

All of this.

So much for 'a deep dive into the stalker's past' or whatever the line was. I learned more about Ordis than I did about the Stalker from this update. And it seems a waste of the whole "ooh, is the Stalker a rogue Tenno?" thing they seemed to imply during Second Dream. That came with a lot of stuff to explore, but I guess we're left with: he just hates Tenno for some undefined reason.

I'm not inherently against the warframe baby thing either (though I can understand that people feel weird about it.) My issue is just: is Warframe really the game for this? If it is (and I won't say it isn't), why aren't you doing more with it than you did? It comes across as: this is a thing now. And I'm sitting here going: okay, but... why?

What makes this story worth telling?

Not to mention the attempt to pull on the heartstrings at the end was very... obvious. Did not work for me, but Warframe has been losing my ability to get invested for a few quests now :(

Music is good though, and I like the new mission type :)

[L3512]

10 hours ago, matt11mz said:

"Whatever is killing her is accelerating, and she's not fighting it."

"Jade's profound understanding of life and death gives her two aura mod slots."

"That is the way of scythes. We cut only what we must so that life can flourish."

Don't know about you, but that makes it sound to me like the baby is what was slowly killing her. In-quest, in-bio, in-promo. Three sources to show the theme of "death brings new life."

Well if Jade wasn't stuck in a cave for like 10,000 years without adequate support, maybe she would not have died.

[matt11mz]

12 hours ago, L3512 said:

Well if Jade wasn't stuck in a cave for like 10,000 years without adequate support, maybe she would not have died.

That is another theme. Ego. Had Stalker put aside his hatred sooner, maybe the Tenno could have done something more.