DE should address Jade's Design

[S.O.U.N.D.W.A.V.E]

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Many of us admire and appreciate the unique characters in Warframe, a game developed by DigitalExtreme. Among them is the latest warframe, Jade. The developers have invested time and thought into Jade's character design, linking her physical appearance of pregnancy to her backstory. However, as players and fans, this design has unintentionally caused unease and distress within our community.

 

The current design of Jade, being pregnant, has generated emotional responses, especially among those who have experienced personal traumas related to childbearing or loss. This portrayal serves as a constant reminder of these difficult experiences. Additionally, the general consensus among various individuals is that it is a morally questionable decision to actively place a pregnant character in a combat setting by choice. While a character's backstory is crucial, such overt physical manifestations in the playable versions appear unnecessary and insensitive to those dealing with similar real-world issues.

 

The aim of this petition is not to censor or suppress the creators' artistic expression but to encourage DigitalExtreme to reimagine Jade's design. Video games should be a source of fun, escape, and community-building, not a stimuli evoking traumatic experiences. We, therefore, are asking DigitalExtreme to consider altering Jade's visual representation or offering a optional model, to reflect sensitivity towards its diverse player base and the strife some of us may have experienced.

 

Sign this petition to help reach the developers with our plea.

 

 

Edited June 24 by S.O.U.N.D.W.A.V.E

[Divinehero]

...pregnant? wat?

[jeandme]

Pregnancy is part of life, censoring it in a video game won't change the experience that those with trauma have to endure.

These conversations are also not productive at all - Jade has a very underwhelming gameplay design that should be addressed first. Her looks won't matter when no one is even interested in playing with her.

[OrionSincoat]

44 minutes ago, jeandme said:

censoring

Have you read the topic created by Soundwave? It's not about censoring. 

For example I really liked the background of Jade. 

Now, think about it, even the corpus stopped shooting at Sorren when they heard the baby. 

Letting a pregnant woman into the battlefield fells just wrong! 

Why the hell would I carry a baby inside the belly of Jade to the battlefield? Is it because I know that the corpus will not shot at her? Is the baby a meat shield to make corpus stop shooting at her? 

Or maybe is it because I don't care about the life that's growing inside her belly? Of course not!

Every single one that's against letting her into fire has its own motives, none of them are because they want to censor Digital Extremes. 

Edited June 21 by OrionSincoat

[(XBOX)K1jker]

vor 4 Stunden schrieb OrionSincoat:

Have you read the topic created by Soundwave? It's not about censoring. 

For example I really liked the background of Jade. 

Now, think about it, even the corpus stopped shooting at Sorren when they heard the baby. 

Letting a pregnant woman into the battlefield fells just wrong! 

Why the hell would I carry a baby inside the belly of Jade to the battlefield? Is it because I know that the corpus will not shot at her? Is the baby a meat shield to make corpus stop shooting at her? 

Or maybe is it because I don't care about the life that's growing inside her belly? Of course not!

Every single one that's against letting her into fire has its own motives, none of them are because they want to censor Digital Extremes. 

Sir there is no baby in the copy of Jade that we have, that argument falls flat. It's just symbolic.. 

What would you like her to look like? Wisp? 

[p_silveira]

1 hour ago, (XBOX)K1jker said:

What would you like her to look like? Wisp? 

I know this question was not made for me, but I'm going to answer it nevertheless.
Personally, I'd like Jade to look almost exactly like she does now, just without the giant transparent glowing belly that screams "shoot me here", in a shooter game. It feels unnerving in a game where there are dozens of energy projectiles in the air at any given time. Edit: I'd like a toggle for it, not for the current design to be forcefully changed for all players.

On a related note, I'm not sure what this question was supposed to accomplish in regards of the current discussion about Jade's appearance other than some attempt at a personal attack, though.

Edited June 21 by p_silveira

[0bsi]

16 hours ago, (XBOX)K1jker said:

Sir there is no baby in the copy of Jade that we have, that argument falls flat. It's just symbolic..

And some of us have an issue with piloting a symbolically pregnant woman into battle.

[Shinoyami65]

18 hours ago, (XBOX)K1jker said:

Sir there is no baby in the copy of Jade that we have, that argument falls flat. It's just symbolic.. 

What would you like her to look like? Wisp? 

Logically she shouldn't be pregnant as she's just a copy, but there is a degree of ambiguity about it (such as one of her noble idles cradling her stomach). I've noticed a fair number of people theorising that the reason she has two aura slots is because one comes from the baby (which is a ridiculous theory and contradicts the wording of her passive, but just goes to show it's vague enough to confuse some people).

[Vaz2017]

Seriously, it doesn't make any sense that she still looks pregnant.

[Thanatos9t]

42 minutes ago, Vaz2017 said:

Seriously, it doesn't make any sense that she still looks pregnant.

It is consistent though as Valkyr shouldn't be skinless when we build her either as that was due to her being tortured by Alad V and her flesh used in the Zanuka prototype but she still looks like that anyway.

She does because the blueprints were created to reflect their appearance at the time.

[Shinoyami65]

5 minutes ago, Thanatos9t said:

It is consistent though as Valkyr shouldn't be skinless when we build her either as that was due to her being tortured by Alad V and her flesh used in the Zanuka prototype but she still looks like that anyway.

She does because the blueprints were created to reflect their appearance at the time.

The original concept behind Valkyr (before the Gersemi skin and Valkyr Prime's eternalism shenanigans confused it for a while) was that the torture she went through under Salad V was so extreme that it literally made her a different frame from who she was before (hence why her original trailer refers to her as "crafted from torment" and her codex entry notes that she was "modified into a highly motivated and fearsome killer"). It wasn't about just copying her appearance, it was to demonstrate how profoundly she had been affected and how despicable Alad is. 

[Pneumanoultra]

17 hours ago, Shinoyami65 said:

Logically she shouldn't be pregnant as she's just a copy, but there is a degree of ambiguity about it (such as one of her noble idles cradling her stomach). I've noticed a fair number of people theorising that the reason she has two aura slots is because one comes from the baby (which is a ridiculous theory and contradicts the wording of her passive, but just goes to show it's vague enough to confuse some people).

Yeah, I theorized that. I won't further defend that theory since the in-game description of her passive doesn't directly support it.

[WanderingJoe]

I have posted this in another thread about this topic, I think it bears repeating.

To simplify the conversation back to the original crux of the issue, whether jade is pregnant or not isn't really the issue here. The issue is that she looks pregnant. Maybe people find it strange and weird that we have a pregnant motif warframe for various reasons both personal and not. Personally I'd like to point out her noble idle animation when she's holding a single pistol more than how she lovingly rubs her abdomen.

Other people think it's strange and weird that people are disturbed by her design. Why is it such an issue? It's not weird, you're weird! The design choice doesnt matter!

If the choice doesnt matter, why are you defending it so vehemently?

The conversation is more about the players communicating to DE than to players who don't care about her design. We're trying to convey to DE that we find Jade's controversial design to be something that harms their product and that we have a suggestion to how to make it better. No one is saying to get rid of the pregnancy motif if DE wants to keep it. Our preference is that we'd like it to be an auxiliary toggle or to have a different body model, not to get rid of it all together. People can have their pregnancy design if they want, its just not for us and we're asking DE for help to improve our experience.

Sincerely,
     a Wandering Joe

PS; I don't know if Soundwave can edit the original title of the thread or not but Ive been hearing something about these posts being taken down if not properly marked by a spoiler tag. Don't know if that will be an issue here or not but if you can edit things Soundwave, I think its important to keep these discussions open if at all possible.

[S.O.U.N.D.W.A.V.E]

3 hours ago, WanderingJoe said:

PS; I don't know if Soundwave can edit the original title of the thread or not but Ive been hearing something about these posts being taken down if not properly marked by a spoiler tag. Don't know if that will be an issue here or not but if you can edit things Soundwave, I think its important to keep these discussions open if at all possible.

This is a very good call. I just added the spoiler tag. 

 

But yes definitely worth keeping this as open as possibile, this way DE has the most to work with when assessing the situation!

[(PSN)IdoThea]

I wonder if they'll change it with toggle or something else?

has there ever been similar controversy over warframe design that could be used as reference here.

I personally don't really care that much at least not yet since I'll be getting Jade tomorrow but I admit from pictures I've seen that belly kind of is disturbing.

[S.O.U.N.D.W.A.V.E]

7 hours ago, (PSN)IdoThea said:

I wonder if they'll change it with toggle or something else?

has there ever been similar controversy over warframe design that could be used as reference here.

I personally don't really care that much at least not yet since I'll be getting Jade tomorrow but I admit from pictures I've seen that belly kind of is disturbing.

As far as I know, Saryn's name was originally 'Sarin', and quoting directly from the wiki, "It was altered to Saryn when a first responder to a sarin attack suggested a name tweak".

Edited June 23 by S.O.U.N.D.W.A.V.E

[Waeleto]

Tbh idk why it's taking them so long to address it

[(PSN)IdoThea]

2 hours ago, S.O.U.N.D.W.A.V.E said:

As far as I know, Saryn's name was originally 'Sarin', and quoting directly from the wiki, "It was altered to Saryn when a first responder to a sarin attack suggested a name tweak".

Name change is much easier to do though. In Jade's case they'd had to change model which takes a lot more effort. 

We'll see if they'll address it.

Edited June 23 by (PSN)IdoThea

[WanderingJoe]

I don't think anyone is expecting the change to be immediate. That would be too unreasonable. I'd take a change a couple weeks down the line. maybe three months down the line if they prefer to focus on tenno con first, which I think it would be reasonable from DE's end. All we want is to know is that we've been heard and that change will be coming, even if we have to wait for it.

Edited June 23 by WanderingJoe

[WanderingJoe]

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/warframe/images/b/b2/JadeGlory.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20240606150153
Just an example of the jade promotional art, taken from the fan wiki. This was the shape people were signing up for. We didnt expect that it would be deceptive camera angles

Edit: I couldnt get the picture to work so I posted the link to the image instead. Im sorry, I know links are scary these days but I couldnt figure out how to make it work

Edited June 23 by WanderingJoe

[(XBOX)KayAitch]

On 2024-06-21 at 2:17 AM, S.O.U.N.D.W.A.V.E said:

The current design of Jade, being pregnant, has generated emotional responses, especially among those who have experienced personal traumas related to childbearing or loss

Has it?

Has it really though?

Do you have evidence of that?

Not that such traumatic things have happened, but that a pregnant character in a game is upsetting to the people that have been through those things?

And just to put this in context: Valkyr was tortured, experimented on and partially flayed. Umbra is still aware as he was commanded to murder his own son. The Grineer are all slowly rotting to the point where one boss is a face stapled to a giant robot chicken. The Warframe universe is a dark and weird place with much more triggering story elements.

Jade is one of nearly 60 frames - just don't play as her.

If you want flying mobile DPS waifu I recommend Titania. If you want floaty support waifu there's Wisp.

On 2024-06-21 at 2:17 AM, S.O.U.N.D.W.A.V.E said:

We, therefore, are asking DigitalExtreme to consider altering Jade's visual representation or offering a optional model

I'd like to counter that. DE, please don't.

Jade's design is brave, brilliant, innovative, and a clever take on the theme... Two auras because two heartbeats. The way she unfurls and colours work with her fashion frame. 

There's no way this frame feels right without the theme she's been built around.

1 hour ago, WanderingJoe said:

Just an example of the jade promotional art, taken from the fan wiki. This was the shape people were signing up

Dude! That's a bit creepy. In what way does her shape matter exactly? In what way did we sign up to it?

[AlyxisPrime]

I have 2 points to make on this.  (Disclaimer: I'm no psychiatrist.  I speak purely out of my own experience.)

Firstly:
The removal and avoidance of normal, everyday sights and happenings does not ease trauma.

I suffered severe burns.  Fire is part of life.  We cook, we camp, we light candles.  Fire is not inherently bad.  Avoiding any appearance of fire in my life would not be a healthy way to deal with my trauma.  Changing Ember's aesthetic would not lessen what happened to me, nor would it bring me any comfort. 
I believe seeking to change something not inherently harmful, in a game not designed to be therapeutic, because of trauma, is misguided.

Secondly:
Jade's design reflects her story, just as much of who we are and how we choose to appear, reflects ours.  It would be unkind to ask me to hide my scars because it makes someone uncomfortable. I feel it is equally unkind to ask that Jade's design be changed for the same reason.  Dark stories, and the scars they leave behind, help people to accept the sad things in life. 

💚 🫂

[S.O.U.N.D.W.A.V.E]

2 hours ago, (XBOX)KayAitch said:

Has it?

Has it really though?

Do you have evidence of that?

 

Without repeating 100+ pages of feedbacks, I am leaving this here for you to go through and form the answers to your questions.

Kindly refer to the following treads; plenty others have spoken out about their reasons for believing a toggle is needed at the very least. There are a few more threads like this if you take a stroll on the forum too.

Hope you find this helpful in filling in the context:

 

 

 

[Lohillus]

8 hours ago, Waeleto said:

Tbh idk why it's taking them so long to address it

It's the weekend, also probably why no hotfixes the past two days. Aside from Devshorts or maybe a mention on PrimeTime I doubt they'll say anything pre-Tennocon too.

[WanderingJoe]

You cant gaslight or guilt trip people into being less uncomfortable about something. Warframe isn't like being out in public, its entertainment. The idea that you're not allowed to speak out against certain type of messaging is ridiculous. We're not obligated to agree with DE's decisions just like other people aren't obligated to agree with us. The idea that its fine that you're uncomfortable about something but that you cant say it... We have autonomy, we can think for ourselves. Stopping people from thinking for themselves and seeing something that is in plain sight? People are not going to take that. It goes both ways. If people are trying to bring something to DE's attention that lessens their experience and someone is asking "Why are you trying to do that? Its not that big of a deal," It's not a good argument. Because if it wasn't that big of a deal, they would not have put it into the game. The choice to portray Jade in such a way after her quest is something everyone agrees has significance, we're just disagreeing on which significance it has.

Don't ever let someone try to make you feel stupid for caring about something because they'd be doing the exact same thing as you, possibly even worse, if they were in your position. To everyone who feels uncomfortable about how Jade looks, and you see someone who is trying to tell you that you shouldn't be complaining, they are complaining even more than you are to you, something they would not spend the time or effort to do if it truly did not matter. Never let people do that to you.

There could be ten different people in this thread that each had a unique reason why they don't like how Jade looks and the common ground of asking DE to change her appearance would be the same. This is not an argument between players. This is a subset of the community that is trying to appeal to DE, to try and gain their attention so that we can ask, humbly, that they make her pregnant appearance optional, not that they should get rid of it all together. 

And Im going to be honest, I don't think DE will address it before Tennocon beyond maybe a forum post or a tweet. They have a lot of work to do. That means we have a month to make our case or not; how long will people continue to talk about this before it either reaches DE's attention before Tennocon or until they have time to come see what's happening afterwards. Make no mistake though, DE is watching. Moderators are checking our posts. A month is a long time, but that gives us the time to show if its really a problem the community wants addressed or if its just a bunch of naysayers like some of the community thinks we're being. If you think Jade's appearance is no big issue, that's fine. It really is. We disagree though, and you're not going to be able to magically make us stop feeling uncomfortable about this strange design choice they've went with for Jade by telling us "Just get over it."

Edited June 24 by WanderingJoe