Dear DE, about Nyx in the upcoming 1999 content...

[Kasamoto]

... thanks for not having forgotten about Nyx, actually giving her a face, identity and personality beyond "genderbent excalibur"
I look forward to interacting with my favourite useless frame as an actual character and already love her role as mental support in the story, handing out the "brain hugs" while snooping
Also very curious what her rework will be like

sincerely, one of the five Nyx mains since 2013

[GeorgeFernell]

If you were actually a Nyx main you would not be so positive. She has been left rotting in the dumpster for nearly a decade. "Thanks" is the last thing they deserve.

[Birdframe_Prime]

1 hour ago, GeorgeFernell said:

If you were actually a Nyx main you would not be so positive. She has been left rotting in the dumpster for nearly a decade. "Thanks" is the last thing they deserve.

If you actually paid attention to what DE does with 'light reworks' then you would be positive.

Besides, DE are desperately wanting this to update to be well received, they aren't going to do anything demonstrably controversial. It will absolutely be a buff to her mechanics.

[GeorgeFernell]

3 minutes ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

If you actually paid attention to what DE does with 'light reworks' then you would be positive.

Besides, DE are desperately wanting this to update to be well received, they aren't going to do anything demonstrably controversial. It will absolutely be a buff to her mechanics.

Hydroid is the only successful rework in history, and it was done right on 3rd iteration. Frost is reduced to 1 button, Mag is reduced to 1 button. Ember rework changed nothing. Grendel is a slave for subsume, nobody actually plays Grendel himself. So yeah, I have been paying more attention than you it would seem.

[Birdframe_Prime]

12 hours ago, GeorgeFernell said:

Hydroid is the only successful rework in history

Wow, tell me how limited your game history is without telling me...

Saryn. Nezha. Zephyr. Inaros. Excalibur. Loki. Nekros. Rhino. Wukong. Volt.

I mean, sure, you weren't around for a few of those, so that's fair. You wouldn't remember Rhino's rework, or Volts, that made them both have functions that are relevant to this day. Excal's gave him Exalted Blade, and Saryn... Saryn is a meta in and of herself in almost every single era.

And the most successful rework in the game's history is Wukong. Literally made him the most used frame ever since. Even with his recent nerfs, he's only just been out-used statistically, barely.

In terms of 'light' reworks, you need only look at Inaros and Loki. None of their actual functions were changed, just added to. Buffing those frames in basic ways. So Inaros fans can now actually use his abilities rather than just health-tanking and can enjoy pressing more than 1 button, and Loki fans can now fluidly use Switch Teleport and his Decoy is finally, finally functional again (plus has an augment that makes it even more fun).

I mean...

It's not hard to find successful reworks in Warframe. There have been a lot.

Some were nerfs, yes, but you're even wrong about some of the ones you mentioned. 'Nobody actually plays Grendel himself' is a great statement if it wasn't for DE's released usage stats showing that in the months since his rework he jumped up in usage by a significant amount (where a single percentage point means tens of thousands of players across all MR ranks), and his Prime was so popular that one month of it existing outperformed the usage of frames that have been in use for the entire year.

Statistics are fun ^^

What I'm saying is something that you literally cannot dispute; New things in Warframe, like new frames and new mechanics, new game modes or new weapons and mods, those are really debatable in terms of whether they're good or not. Warframes either come in over-tuned and have to be nerfed, or under-tuned and need buffing, or they come in broken and need three months of patches to even make them functional.

Changes, though... Changes to existing things have been almost universally net positive. Even if you say they've 'done nothing' they are functional buffs. That's a fact with Ember, with Loki, with Mag... Also Mag and Frost aren't one-button. They're two buttons, and those are two very good buttons on each of them.

Let me put it this way; DE said that Nyx is getting a 'light' rework. And the example of a 'light' rework is Loki. All they did for him is make Switch Teleport better and bring the functions of Decoy up to current game standards, along with giving it a cool Augment, because Radial Disarm plus Invisibility are still meta for modes like the Steel Path Circuit.

So, if all DE did was give Nyx something like... more reliable and functional aiming on her Psychic Bolts, maybe made it a pure cone-of-effect so there was no longer a cap on the enemies she could strip, and made... let's see... Absorb's energy usage and scaling actually something relevant at all levels... That would be a buff, right?

It wouldn't change anything about how you used Nyx, but it would be a buff. Maybe they could adjust Assimilate so you can move around better with it, too. Also a buff, but less than something else they could do. Or maybe they could adjust Chaos Sphere to make it more consistent in the job of 'applying Chaos in a radius over a duration instead of in bursts'. That would also be a small buff.

Would you actually complain about that?

That would be in the realms of a 'light' rework, according to DE.

Or, something that's more extensive, but also in the realms of a 'light' rework is Inaros. With him they re-distributed the functions he has, buffed the most annoying functions, and then added new functions on top. So now he doesn't absorb health from enemies by standing over them and feasting, he does it while in Sandstorm, which is now faster and has the option to consistently apply status, also dragging enemies to a specific point for attacking after ending. His Scarab Swarm is an incredibly reliable armour reduction, even a full strip if you have Shards on, he has minions, better Health tanking, and even Status immunity, plus his Augments were looked over to make them more applicable to the new ability spread.

So what if that was what DE did to Nyx? Shifting the functions around to make them easier to use and then giving her bonus ones to fill in the gaps left?

Would you actually complain about that?

Because I'm willing to think that you wouldn't.

The only possible complaint you'd have would be 'they didn't do more', which is a comparatively stupid comment born of the same mind that said 'Ember's rework did nothing'. Especially when this is described as a 'light' rework, not a 'full' rework.

Just put on your big gamer pants and stop doom-saying. A frame is finally getting some attention that the community agrees needs to be given.

[Alpheus]

On 2024-07-25 at 4:09 AM, Birdframe_Prime said:

Some were nerfs, yes, but you're even wrong about some of the ones you mentioned. 'Nobody actually plays Grendel himself' is a great statement if it wasn't for DE's released usage stats showing that in the months since his rework he jumped up in usage by a significant amount (where a single percentage point means tens of thousands of players across all MR ranks), and his Prime was so popular that one month of it existing outperformed the usage of frames that have been in use for the entire year.

Statistics are fun ^^

I'd hardly call 0.06% a "significant amount" even on a cross-platform scale. Other frames have seen changes an order of magnitude greater year-to-year without anything being done to them. By comparison, after Mag's late-2022 rework/revisit, she went from a combined 1.54% usage in 2022 to a combined 2.31% in 2023, a 0.77% gain.

Base Grendel went from 0.24% in 2022, to 0.30% in 2023, being used less frequently than base Titania, base Loki, and base Frost. Grendel prime got 0.14% usage in 2.5 months during Prime Access, compared to Qorvex's 0.13% in 2 weeks. All the other frames his prime outperformed have old prime variants of their own, so saying they've been in use for the entire year is severely stretching the truth, especially when it's specified that the frames in that short list include the likes of Banshee, Nyx, and Atlas.

His usage peaked in 2021, 2 years after his release, at 0.49%, 0.05% higher than both his base and prime usage combined after an entire year of his rework being in effect.

I used to play him extensively until his rework. He's actually my second most used frame sitting between Mirage Prime and Wisp cause I brought him into everything for the simple fact that I had fun playing with him once I figured out how to manage his resources properly. His rework brought a lot of good QoL aspects that were requested for his original kit, but now he's a shadow of what he used to be, no longer fun to play as, and still just a meme to the average player.

On topic: I'm cautiously optimistic about a Nyx rework. I want her to feel strong, but at the same time I don't want her identity to be gutted like it was in Grendel's case.

Edited July 31 by Alpheus

[Sojufueled]

Grendel, like most armor stripping frames, took a big hit from the health change. As for his rework, consolidating the nourish buffs was a godsend. I know someone people enjoyed gobbling up entire rooms, but the energy management aspect will not be missed.

 

As for what I would want from a Nyx light rework. I would want number of psychic bolts to scale. I would want chaos's augment not to shrink. I would want the magnetic damage on absorb to inflict a magnetic proc and I would want the absorb weapon damage bonus to match much longer (to justify the setup). Confused enemies should also prioritize the absorb bubble.

[Birdframe_Prime]

On 2024-07-31 at 11:56 PM, Alpheus said:

I'd hardly call 0.06% a "significant amount"

Again, statistics are fun.

You see a 0.06% jump after a year right? Well that's only part of the story. His Prime released in the very end of the year and got 0.14% usage overall. That's outperforming multiple base frames in only two months when those frames had an entire year to poll their usage. This means that Grendel Prime, just based on PC average concurrent daily players, pulled in 20k play sessions in only 2 months, and that's only part of it because we don't get concurrent user stats on the consoles.

I can understand that people were disappointed with some aspects of the Grendel changes, and other changes were great.

Except... this isn't a statement about whether Grendel's good or bad based on these usage stats.

It's about how sweeping statements that 'nobody uses Grendel' are just silly and need disputing.

See?

People play Grendel. A surprising amount for that player's dismissal of it. And there was a factual upswing after his rework made him accessible to more people, even if his overall power got a nerf.

Edited August 2 by Birdframe_Prime

[(XBOX)Big Roy 324]

The true joy will be that her head will change.  I've wanted to play nyx more but I hate most of her skins.  Primarily how large the horn on her head is.

I settled for the master noob skin (which is fire) and have been mostly happy with her.

Getting her as a Hex is a dream come true for me. 

[Sojufueled]

12 hours ago, Birdframe_Prime said:

Again, statistics are fun.

You see a 0.06% jump after a year right? Well that's only part of the story. His Prime released in the very end of the year and got 0.14% usage overall. That's outperforming multiple base frames in only two months when those frames had an entire year to poll their usage. This means that Grendel Prime, just based on PC average concurrent daily players, pulled in 20k play sessions in only 2 months, and that's only part of it because we don't get concurrent user stats on the consoles.

I can understand that people were disappointed with some aspects of the Grendel changes, and other changes were great.

Except... this isn't a statement about whether Grendel's good or bad based on these usage stats.

It's about how sweeping statements that 'nobody uses Grendel' are just silly and need disputing.

See?

People play Grendel. A surprising amount for OP's dismissal of it. And there was a factual upswing after his rework made him accessible to more people, even if his overall power got a nerf.

And there are close to 100 frames now (since different versions are counted separately). All things equal, you'd expect every frame to get 2% play, so .6 in that scenario would be significant.

 

Also, with regard to Nyx's horn, isn't that ponytail essentially the same shape?

Edited August 2 by Sojufueled

[Birdframe_Prime]

8 hours ago, Sojufueled said:

And there are close to 100 frames now (since different versions are counted separately). All things equal, you'd expect every frame to get 2% play, so .6 in that scenario would be significant.

You're not wrong.

And think about that; that player I responded to claimed that the most successful rework in history was Hydroid... when Wukong has dominated the charts ever since his rework that gave him Celestial Twin and the upgraded Cloud Walker. That 'domination' brought him up to about... what was it... 11.1% overall? That's crazy numbers when you actually translate it to play time and player base.

It's almost like the sweeping statements made by that player up there actually take credibility away from anything they say.

Edited August 2 by Birdframe_Prime

[Alpheus]

On 2024-08-01 at 4:36 PM, Birdframe_Prime said:

Again, statistics are fun.

You see a 0.06% jump after a year right? Well that's only part of the story. His Prime released in the very end of the year and got 0.14% usage overall. That's outperforming multiple base frames in only two months when those frames had an entire year to poll their usage. This means that Grendel Prime, just based on PC average concurrent daily players, pulled in 20k play sessions in only 2 months, and that's only part of it because we don't get concurrent user stats on the consoles.

I can understand that people were disappointed with some aspects of the Grendel changes, and other changes were great.

Except... this isn't a statement about whether Grendel's good or bad based on these usage stats.

It's about how sweeping statements that 'nobody uses Grendel' are just silly and need disputing.

See?

People play Grendel. A surprising amount for that player's dismissal of it. And there was a factual upswing after his rework made him accessible to more people, even if his overall power got a nerf.

I'm not the one that said nobody was using Grendel, but to point at a 0.06% uptick and call that "significant" when other frames have seen similar differences without anything being done to them is just dishonest. You also ignored my point that Qorvex was used 0.01% less than Grendel Prime in only two weeks, outperforming the same exact frames, when Grendel Prime had the benefit of being a brand new Prime Access for two months. Dagath was released on the same day as Grendel Prime and got 0.46% usage. Wisp Prime got a whopping 2.38% with only a 3 month head start. No way you can look at availability/usage ratios and say that Grendel Prime was "popular".

And again, all the frames they outperformed have had bottom-of-the-totem usage for years now anyway, either due to inaccessibility (Excalibur Prime) or their prime variants have been out longer than most people playing (Nyx, Ash, Nova), so outperforming them even with a 10-12 month head start is to be expected.

[TenTonneSkeleton]

People love to argue lol

[Fred_Avant_2019]

Le 02/08/2024 à 19:38, Birdframe_Prime a dit :

You're not wrong.

And think about that; that player I responded to claimed that the most successful rework in history was Hydroid... when Wukong has dominated the charts ever since his rework that gave him Celestial Twin and the upgraded Cloud Walker. That 'domination' brought him up to about... what was it... 11.1% overall? That's crazy numbers when you actually translate it to play time and player base.

It's almost like the sweeping statements made by that player up there actually take credibility away from anything they say.

I think we should keep an eye on Revenant's usage number when they release them for the year of 2024 recap. He's everywhere I go (and I'm very sick of it).

 

Back on topic :

Any change to Nyx will help. All of her kit has undenyable qualities, but there are issues everywhere to go with it.

1. Mind Control's AI should behave like infested, where they're always seeking out enemies, never taking cover.
2. Psychic Bolt reseting defense strips is bad.
3. Chaos should use rad procs or be made to work against OG.
4. Absorb needs to be seriously looked into, because standing still afk to deal pitiful damage isn't a good thing.

[Sojufueled]

2 hours ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

1. Absorb needs to be seriously looked into, because standing still afk to deal pitiful damage isn't a good thing.

I think the weapon damage buff is supposed to be the real payoff, but the short duration makes it look really pitiful next to similar affects in the game.

[Fred_Avant_2019]

il y a 10 minutes, Sojufueled a dit :

I think the weapon damage buff is supposed to be the real payoff, but the short duration makes it look really pitiful next to similar affects in the game.

But there's a cap to the amount you get.

Nothing Absorb provides (currently) is worth the energy invested.

[Sojufueled]

2 hours ago, Fred_Avant_2019 said:

But there's a cap to the amount you get.

Nothing Absorb provides (currently) is worth the energy invested.

Yeah, it's capped, it's complicated to set up, it compares badly to similar effects, and the duration is too short. Hilariously, not only is it only 6 seconds, it's 6 seconds after violently yeeting away any targets you may have wanted to shoot.

[Birdframe_Prime]

22 hours ago, Alpheus said:

No way you can look at availability/usage ratios and say that Grendel Prime was "popular".

No, and you're being remarkably negative about this.

My point has been, and will continue to be, the response to the original comment that 'Nobody plays Grendel', which is the actual incorrect statement. (And no, you didn't say it, you're just the one trying to argue with me about my response to the person that did say it.)

Grendel did see a significant upswing after his rework simply because that 0.06% you keep coming back to represents multiple thousands of play sessions across all platforms. And because, if you count his Prime, it was a 0.2% rise in that short amount of time, which is even greater.

Specifically the statement 'Grendel's usage is greater than it was before, and by potentially hundreds of thousands of play sessions across all platforms and Mastery Ranks.'

You can't straw-man the response by saying that X, Y and Z frame did better, therefore my statement is incorrect, that's not how statistics work. That's why statistics are fun ^^

The statement was not 'Grendel did better than Qorvex', and it wasn't 'Look at these bottom tier frames, they're doing so bad that Grendel beat them in two months'. The statement was simply 'That comment about nobody playing Grendel is false, because look at the up-tick in usage that he had immediately after his rework and Prime and that represents a huge volume of people across all platforms and Mastery Ranks.'

Which is a factually correct response to the other person who said 'nobody plays Grendel'.

Statistics are fun and by making a factual statement, they can prove it or disprove it in a myriad of ways.

Statistics can correlate the rise in the US stock market with the frustrations of right wing supporters that tried to say that the current President would be bad for the stock market and might even crash it. It can also correlate that rise with the totally unrelated increase in people buying ice cream. So you can make a statement that says 'There is an observable correlation between the increase in ice cream sales and right wing economy pundit frustration.' and it's factually correct and backed up by the Statistics.

Statistics are great that way.